This is simple. If skit-b didn't properly secure the preditor license and likeness rights they only have themselves to blame.
(Topic ID: 108377)
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Duck Hunt
Skit-B Pinball, 2013-
Experts of Dangerous
Skit-B Pinball, 2014
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Quoted from Aurich:Since I did a summary last time, I'll summarize again:
"I'm sorry yesterday's email was confusing. I wasn't trying to tell you the project is dead. I'm simply trying to leave you confused still, by making my followup email just as strangely vague as the first one you got that I'm apologizing for."
Seriously, I don't understand what the hell Kevin is doing. Either just shut up or say something, but being vague is the worst possible option, because it just keeps people stirred up and worrying without actually reassuring them.
I just went to Skit-b's web site. No mention of the predator pinball. Really, no mention that they are even making a machine. Also no mention of the Mythbuster's machine. Now, if you're a startup company and have these licenses you would have it plastered all over your site. You don't need a calculator to do the math on this one IMO.
Quoted from Whysnow:They are currently working with liscence holders to have a deal where they can openly share everything and stop the allegations once and for all.
IMO this reads to me that they don't currently have the license. We do license deals with major studios, tv networks and all forms of stars. Never have we signed a deal where we couldn't reveal we had a license. Licensors restrict info before content is released, I had to sign a non-disclosure for Lucasfilms that I wouldn't release any content before the movie was released. Predator is an old license. Now, I'm not saying they can't get the license. It really sounds like they don't have it now.
Quoted from spfxted:I know everyone's going crazy and I understand. But, hopefully in a couple weeks, we should know everything. Kevin sounded sincere when we spoke, so let's give him the time he needs and see what happens.
Two weeks isn't that long which is good.
Quoted from Whysnow:IMO you should keep focused on your own problems of liscence rights and fair use rather than trying to continually stoke flames on others.
If you don't like how I said it, then please refer to how Ted said it if that helps you understand
I have no licensing problems. Hilton, take your own advice and only stick to things you know.
Quoted from PorkChopExpress:Hey chessiv,
I'm just curious as to what you created with the Lucasfilm license and which movies was it for?
Toys, art, ect?
Sorry to derail the skitb thread. Hope everything works itself out for all involved.
It was a marketing web site for Episode III. I had to sign all sorts of non-disclosure docs to get the marketing assets. I thought I was going to get something really cool but everything I received was already available to the general public. It was a bit of a letdown.
Quoted from Whysnow:for a guy that does not own a single game made in the past 3 decades, you are overly concerned with anything to do with a DMD.
That is also sadly quite true it seems...
Give it 2 weeks and if there is nothing of substance reported then go back to hating with all the energy you have.
Skit-b has handled this poorly. No one can rationally argue that point. The only hate I see in this thread is from you. Surely you have better things to do?
Quoted from T-800:Look where that got him... bankrupt with Planetary snatching up assets. Just think, if 7 years ago a small run wasnt profitable at $7k a pop, then Kevin is a saint for trying to pull this off for less than $5k.
Ignore Kevin for a moment. Do you honestly think any startup, especially a small one, can setup manufacturing, build X machines for about the same price as a stern pro pin and make money? I've been asked many times by many people to help startup a pinball company and the finances just don't work below a 7k end user price level IMO. You shouldn't go into business to go bankrupt.
I think the biggest problem is many of the people who started these boutique shops have never successfully run a business. They have great ideas for pins and find out they didn't have a clue what it takes, cost and effort wise, to make a finished pin. Kudos again to Spooky as they pulled it off. I would hope everyone can but a majority of the people here underestimate the massive undertaking that this is. I'm sure if you asked all of them a good majority would not have tried it if they truly knew the effort ahead of time.
Quoted from rai:Thanks Ben.
My point is Kevin is probably not paying himself the way 'real' designers like Steve Richie is get paid. Don't think you can compair Stern with Skit-B.
Quoted from benheck:Of course building a prototype doesn't cost 1 million. Maybe 5k, and another 20-30k getting it ready for manufacturer.
But that's just screws, metal and wood - the real cost of any project is labor. Chuck and I did that pro-bono for the first few years, and now we get paid on the back end. Chuck puts a lot of his profit back into the business, not Aruba trips or pizza parties.
PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART: We only got paid by shipping a game - not for coming up with the idea for one - probably why we made damn sure it went out the door.
Yes Predator is simpler than AMH. But it has other expenses we don't, like PROC, blacklights, special inks, a license (one would hope) molded skulls, molded ramps (AMH has zero vacuum forming).
Kevin is right though - making pinball is HARD. Like, really f'ing don't try it you're nuts hard.
Ben,
You guys have successfully built and shipped machines, kudos again as that fact is pretty amazing (and yes, I think you're crazy.) That being said would you, or could you even ship a full featured machine for less than 5k without losing money? I also consider paying yourself nothing and breaking even on the machine losing money. I'm a businessman, what can I say 
Quoted from lowepg:The problem is, there may be no "out" any longer. There's at least one member here that said Kevin has ignored his emails for MONTHS on a refund.... and that goes back to when things were "ok"
Now, with all this pressure here and Kevin admitting there ARE issues (though vaguely) it's hard to believe he will suddenly become more responsive, especially if there's no "A-ha Wonderful" moment in "2 weeks."
So, in a way, its understandable why some folks will just REFUSE to accept anything but a positive outcome. They have no choice at this point.
Ted and Whysnow said everything is fine and we'll understand in two weeks. Whysnow is rarely right but I'll give Ted the benefit of doubt. Plus two weeks isn't long to wait.
1 week later
Quoted from underlord:I'm married to one.
Yes.
Yes it is.
Mine is very nice actually.
Quoted from underlord:So is mine.
Been with her 30 years next year. Wow.
Grats!
Officially 24 years next month but we went out for 3 years before getting married.
Hey, two weeks is now turning into three from someone who supposedly has inside info. Queue up more women, anniversaries and excuses. :p
On a real discussion point, who would be willing to accept the same machine without the license? I'm thinking that's where this will end up.
Quoted from Concretehardt:What would that even mean and could it be done?
Remove all references to preditor. Change the dots. Possibly change playfield art. Same shot layout, another theme.
Quoted from Whysnow:If you are referring to me as the person with inside info, you are wrong as usual.
I have no info, but was making a joke that the big announcement will likely be late as everything else is...
On a brighter note, I now know of 7 people that have been able to breathe new life into their pin2k games with the greatness of what can now be found on piratebay and the likes. Glad to see them keeping their games alive!
I didn't expect an update by today. If they don't come out with one by the end of the week that will be bad...
Quoted from underlord:Money out of our hands, no product, poor communicado.
Define 'bad'.
Worse? Really bad? They used Ted as a mouthpiece and if they make him look foolish that's worse than saying nothing at all IMO.
Quoted from spfxted:OK...HERE WE GO!
I JUST got finished speaking with Kevin. I asked ALL the hard questions. Here is a quick summery:
YES, he is busy.
YES, the license is fine. He is working on getting into a better situation so EVERYTHING can be shown and talked about.
YES, machines are being built as we speak.
YES, jackwads are calling FOX.
YES, there will be a MAJOR announcement within the next 2 weeks with everything you want to know.
Everything is moving forward.
So, is the above email everything potential owners want to know?
Quoted from spfxted:Thanks. I've gotten a lot of PM's and have been chatting there. A few of you have asked me to come back here. I really don't have anything to add. I find no value in bitching and going over the same speculation over and over and over. Here is my take so far:
1) Kevin and I are not "best buddies." I know him from chatting at the shows. I've spoken to him on the phone, I think twice or 3 times.
2) I do not think he's a con man. He seems to be really into making this game.
3) Were there problems? Yes. Is he trying to work everything out? Yes.
4) The last communication from him said that there was going to be BIG news, and it was all good. (this was AFTER his big email) He can't say anything about rights, who's making the machine, etc until after things are finalized.
5) There are a few ways to look at this situation. Kevin will get everything worked out and a machine gets made. Or, the whole thing falls to shit and whatever is left gets divvied up. To keep going on and on with the nastiness, venom and sometimes just plain scumiosity makes it hard to participate.
6) All we can do right now is wait for the news. I hope for the best. If I hear any more, I will share it. If you want me to shut up until you hear from Kevin, that's fine too.
7) Thanks to all of you for your PM's...some nice conversation there.
You claimed in your post two weeks ago you had some inside info that would explain everything. I questioned you specifically about the license and you said something like there's a good reason for his actions. In light of zero big news Kevin promised you and you conveyed to us, do you know any secrets that lead you to believe all the theories here are wrong? Because given all the facts we know I personally find it hard to believe that there's a very good reason for the way things went down.
Quoted from Vyzer2:This whole situation SUCKS, but there is no reason to vent anger towards Ted. From what I see, he was the only one to call Kevin and let everyone know what he could and could not say. For that he has to be given crap? At least he tried to provide some info to all involved. Point your anger towards to where it is deserved, not where it shouldn't.
No anger from me. Just a reasonable question.
Everyone but Kevin who says things are going to be ok needs to stop. You're just supporting poor behavior and fueling this crazy fire. Kevin, and only Kevin, needs to respond on the status. I know some of you are trying to help but it's only hurting the situation.
I came back tonight and there were over 100 new responses and Kevin wasn't one of them. Any doubt that this project has imploded should be gone. No reasonable person would let this much supposed dis-information flow without responding.
Quoted from dgoett:It is really sickening to see people enjoying watching 250 fellow pinsiders lose $5k.
Do you laugh at people when their houses burn down, too?
Do you laugh at funerals?
Some people have mental illness.
I've noticed this also and not just in this thread. A certain individual has openly celebrated the theft of Nucore. It's like saying to someone, "Hey I saw the guy who stole your car the other day. He's really enjoying it!! hahahaha."
So yes. It does happen and yes I agree the individuals who do it need to seek help.
Quoted from lowepg:Nucor might be a bit of an ironic example here.
The Nucor situation reminds me a bit of the scene from Pirate of Silicon Valley when Jobs starts whining that Gates stole from Apple only to be schooled by Gates when he calls out Apple for stealing from Xerox....
» YouTube video
Only we stole nothing. That will be proven.
So, Whysnow vehemently defended a criminal while simultaneously vilifying the people trying to reveal the whole mess to the people who paid. More disturbing is everyone who is out money on this deal. What a bummer. Here's hoping that they at least get a portion of their money back.
Quoted from frolic:If Heighway were to ever do a Predator, I hope they do a fresh in-house design. Maybe for the 30th anniversary in a couple of years.
I was never impressed with the art. If anyone was to pick this up I agree, they should start from scratch. But my guess is people who paid wouldn't want to wait that long. Plus whoever would pick it up would have to charge a lot more money. The economics never worked. If Kevin had 100% of the cash he could have refunded it. The other shoe to drop will be how much money is left. I hope it's in the 90%+ range.
There's a general life rule that you vouch for very few people in this world. Certainly not people who even remotely look like something they did is suspect. If you do it's ends up reflecting poorly on the person if things go south, as evidenced here.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Here's the thing. If he outs himself that he doesn't have the license, he is just opening the door for someone to run and tell the tattle turtle. If he wants to have any chance to sneak it through, he has to go with a bullshit story that he has it, try and get the games made and in peoples hands before anyone notices. I really think this is his frame of mind with the event.
No doubt that this is what he did. But that clearly makes him a liar and is the basis of the fraud he perpetrated.
Quoted from kvan99:If you cared about the people's money you would have PM'd the info when you found out, ( you know anonymously)...Don't try to play this off.
Here's the problem in a situation like this; is the anonymous information you're receiving valid? If not and you post it as truth you are opening yourself up to a lawsuit with possible serious damages. Many times I hear things about manufacturers here from very reliable sources but I don't repeat them for just this reason.
Quoted from jrivelli:Lol can't wait. Fox is one of the worst companies in the TV world of all time. He can thumbs that down too while watching Fox news
Rarehero works in Hollywood and you pegged him as watching fox news?? Did you also guess Hannibal Lecter was a vegetarian??
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I work in milwaukee, but that doesn't mean I know how beer is made.
Well you would be the one.
And I don't believe you Laverne
Quoted from Kevgascan:I dont think Paypal is FDIC insured either. He would have nothing to gain and everything to lose with keeping the money in Paypal. His Paypal account is locked, I doubt he can do any refunds threw it. I think he's just buying more time.
I don't think PayPal is going to find this amusing if they look into it. Although this amount of money may not show up on their radar. Too many complaints might.
Quoted from spfxted:If this was a total scam from the start wouldn't Kevin have removed the money from PayPal as soon as it came in?
The fact that it didn't have a valid license and he portrayed it as such does make it a scam. Not the rob-your-money scam but a scam none the less.
2 months later
Quoted from NoahFentz:I'm not sure why the 'cabinet guy' keeps coming up. The 'cabinet guy' is a company, VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc, not some dude building cabinets in his garage. We were contracted to do a job, that's it.
The guy who brought it up seems to, on occasion, generate wild stories for sport.
Quoted from iceman44:Hold on here.
I don't think he's lost a DIME, in fact, I think he's sitting on significant funds to build cabinets "in the future". Now that is just what I was told. Who knows, lies have been thrown around all over the place with Kevin, but I really doubt it in this case.
As for Kevin, I have zero sympathy for him and the delusion that he still wants to make these pins.
It's great that people are getting refunds from paypal due to the fraud, it's not coming from Kevin.
Don't worry, all the facts will come out soon enough and for those that didn't pay through pay pal I'm thinking they need to look for other options to get repaid.
Attacking this guy on hearsay?
1 month later
Quoted from johngravenews:Anyone know what the credit card companies are doing to recover their losses? I can't imagine they are happy to simply write off the money they've refunded to buyers?
They factor a certain percentage of write-offs in the equation. When they're charging 20+ percent interest they can afford a few write-offs.
1 month later
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Some seem to think it's a courtesy thing, but it's not. It's actually a law. If you are hogging the left lane and not moving over, you can get a ticket. It's the law.
It's different per state. I agree stupid but not against the law in many states.
2 weeks later
Quoted from KeithinMI:there are 19 or 20 active lawsuits, with more on the way.
Nice work. Nail him!
1 week later
Quoted from pmWolf:Which is why I'm really, really curious to know who knows this guy IRL.
He seems pretty well connected, and apparently travels from MA to MI...but so far, PinChili is the only person who knows him at all?
Pete
All the signs of a dup account.
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