(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion

By Xerico

6 years ago

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87 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (4 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (4 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (4 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (4 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (4 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (4 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#26 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

why don't you go back to emailing FOX to tell them how you think this is all being done under the table and stay out of the conversation unless you have something worthwhile to add?

How long do you expect to be in this thread exactly?

#184 6 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

I like the official one....

image-671.jpg 234 KB

"Official" might not be the most accurate description.
: )

1 week later
#241 6 years ago

Half a dozen cabinets is a great start and goes a long way to instill faith that these are still on course.
That is definitely the most important thing.

Still, there's got to be one Hell of a story as to why this is all taking place on the down low.

Wonder if we'll ever find out.

1 week later
#323 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Games are being built.
We have seen photos.
Why so much doom and gloom from so many?
Seems like lots of people getting caught up in pinside and letting themselves get riled up by a handful of naysayers with no skin in the game.
Yeah the communication sucks, but we have seen enough to know things are progressing.
Settle down, enjoy the turkey holiday, and take a deep breath while you think about all the things you are thankful for in life (including the ability to even afford taking a risk and buy into a startup pinball manufacturers dream).
By all accounts a few games should be delivered soon and then you will likely get lots of info about those games. I will say it again, as soon as I get my personal game any and all Predator owners further back in the line are welcome to come see and evaluate. Fly in and we will make a weekend out of pinballin and drinking!

I know you're serious, but you CAN'T be serious!
There's been zero evidence that Skit-B has the licence to make this pin from what I've seen.

I would be happy for those who have pre-ordered if anyone out there can prove me wrong.

Let's see it.

Now Hilton: put up, or...

#366 6 years ago

Pure speculation, but I would not be surprised one bit to hear that buyers get their pins as promised.
Whether they are licensed is another matter.
I can't make sense of any other explanation.

#370 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Do you think if you keep saying this lie that eventually it will become truth? The game is licensed, and has been confirmed as such by

So I'll ask you once more Hilton:
Where is there any evidence of this?

#375 6 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I don't think anyone questions the game having the Predator license (all of us who followed this from the beginning believe they acquired that part right out of the gate). I think the question is whether they have the rights to Arnold.
The reason many people question this point is Dark Horse could never get rights to his character (his likeness was less the issue than those to his character, it was the character itself that Arnold had the rights too per my memory) for their comic books and that comic book line was national and popular.
I've seen enough pictures now that I personally believe games are being assembled and will be shipped. Regardless of the IP issues with Arnold, I think the games are being made - just my personal opinion which is worth what you paid for it though.

Actually, I think lots of people question whether they have the licence.
Pure speculation, but a licensing issue is a very logical explanation as to why you can't find a trace of evidence of the Predator pinball machine anywhere.

Dunno about the rest of you guys, but if this were my company, I'd be proud enough to be trumpeting my new pin-baby on at least one webpage for everyone to see! Sure, maybe the site goes down for maintenance once in awhile but it appears more as though all evidence of Pred has been hidden/removed.

One more time: I honestly hope that all buyers receive their pins.
I also hope that someone can prove me wrong.
So... Who can provide a lick of evidence that Skit B has the licence?
(And no, photos of games being made is not proof. Anyone can make a game without a licence.)

Edit: I've posted the challenge and made my point. I won't be posting again and again to stir things up. Good luck to all involved in this $----storm.

#378 6 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

What's the point in this? They are all sold. I really think they are going dark on purpose and not because there's an issue.

I think it's possible that Skit B thought they were going to get the licence, started down the road and collected money, did a lot of work on the pin, and then something fell through. Now they have a whole lot of parts, can't refund everyone's $, and are probably great guys at heart (everyone seems to say they are).
So what do you do at that point?

Exactly what's being done. Quietly.

I hope you're right though Dude. I don't want to see anyone lose cash on this. The whole concept of new pinball start-ups is awesome and great for all of us. I do wish Skit B well.

#393 6 years ago

I can see that you're really pulling for SkitB, and that's cool, but you have to admit...
The fact that Skit B has approx $750,000 and has "gone dark" is not good in any way, shape, or form.
Fortunately, many people have said these guys are "good people" and we've seen evidence of cabinets being made so it seems as though the games are being made.
As I've said before, it's my opinion that buyers will get their pins as promised. I hope I'm right.

Still, you keep echoing excuses for Skit B, sticking up for them, and basically insulting anyone who's not 100% behing them. You have to stop, Man. So far as I'm aware, no pinball company (start-up or otherwise -like Stern or JJP) has listed a pin for sale publicly, and then removed ALL associated info on that pin. That, is not how a normal company operates and there's SOMETHING behind this all.

I was thinking about this yesterday and it occurred to me that licensing has to be quite complex.
Maybe they do have the licence for Predator, but maybe it's Schwarzenegger's quotes or something else, relatively minor that's to blame. Either way, until SkitB can once again publicly show that there's such thing as a Predator pin that's being produced, you're just fanning flames and making things worse.

What does suck about forums in general, and especially this thread, is that we aren't very sympathetic to one another when we post, and/or become Internet tough guys. Just like reading an email, you can't hear emotion, and sometimes comments are taken personally when they shouldn't be.
(I'm not pointing fingers at anyone and I am to blame sometimes as well)
Just trying to state that it's too bad a thread like this has to twist itself into near personal attacks. This is a great example of a topic that could be discussed logically, that might then help some people decide on whether to ask for a refund, or stick it out.

Lastly, have you any update on when you're getting yours? (Still by Xmas?)
That's probably the best proof anybody has that all is well.
Either way, if that's the case, there's a little over 3 weeks til we see one produced which will likely answer all the questions out there.

#509 6 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

He typed P R E D A T O R ... What's next oh great conspiracy theorists?

Rommy are you really that blind?
First of all, I would say that the reply/update is great news for buyers and it should come as a surprise to no one that the games may take longer than originally scheduled. Welcome to pinball.
Secondly, despite only 1 pic and a bunch of words, I for one would take great comfort, fully expecting that games will be produced and received eventually.
That's the important take-away of course.

That being said, there's NOTHING in any of my previous posts that has been dispelled or proven inaccurate by this email. The only time he said Predator was as a reply, and was a 1 word answer only.

Do you not admit that the fact he never refers to the pin by name is UNIQUE? JJP uses the names, Stern uses the names... I think you get the point.

Once again, SOMETHING weird is going on behind the scenes, but fortunately, it does not appear to be a roadblock to having the pins produced.

Again, it appears as though all buyers can sleep easy, expecting new updates and their pins eventually.
Congrats to those of you "hanging in there" with money on the line.

#540 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I don't get the either/or argument. They've got a facebook account, they can't post something once a week taking 2 minutes?

It's even simpler than that. The company removed all signs of the game. I think that's what sparked the torches and pitchforks. I believe everyone who knows anything about pinball understands that timing never goes according to plan.

4 weeks later
#578 6 years ago

It's 2015! Quick, let's grab a noose and find WhySnow!!!

The good news is that it would appear Predator is moving forward.

1 month later
#1325 6 years ago

So far as I've seen, PBN has yet to produce any kind of article regarding the licensing for Predator.
Unless I've missed something, WhySnow has stirred up all kinds of drama and smearing, for ZERO reason.

Hilton: from day one, you've been such a loud-mouth on here, defending this whole operation (while Kevin sounds to be a stand-up guy, this operation is a shit-show at best!), that it would not surprise me to hear that someone did try to contact Fox, just to burst your bubble and prove you wrong.
In my opinion, you have done far more harm to this whole thing than anyone else, simply by arguing constantly about how rock-solid this is, and that anyone who opposes your opinion is somehow eager to see the project fail. Proving you wrong, and "wanting to see this fail" are two very different things.

(Personally I do hope these get produced, and that Kevin can get this done.)

#1684 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did chime in the other day when the guy whom loaned his machine to Rick could not even get a return call for over a month. That is less MMr and just common respect when you borrow something like a 10k machine to be better with communication.

Yeah, when the communication stops, it's just plain rude, eh?

#1800 6 years ago

I wonder how happy/angry everyone would be if Kevin divided whatever amount of cash remains, evenly among all the buyers.
Say you were each out $500-$1000.
Wouldn't that be ok given the current events?
Crappy, but not a complete train-wreck or worst case scenario.

1 week later
#2759 6 years ago

So a couple weeks ago, a big news announcement is promised, and it turns out to be a frightening admission without any kind of dependable information or timeline?
Was the big announcement that he's admitting things are utterly f'd up?

Can anyone explain why the full payment was required up front, way before it was even remotely possible to order parts or build games?

If anyone out there doesn't ask for a refund, you clearly make a Hell of a lot more money than I do!

Best of luck to everyone who's chosen to... (Wait for it)... "Stick around".
(My fav Arnie quote in Predator)

#2764 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Not to defend Keneda, but there is a saying 'time is money', and also 'today's dollars are worth more than future dollars'. That's one reason why WoZ was offered at $6500 a few years in advance it was sold at a discount. Because you were paying in 2011 dollars for a pin you got in 2013-14.
When Kevin demanded, he didn't ask for the $3000, he demanded it, he set a timeline that if you didn't submit to his schedule you were off the project entirely. He demanded the money and he said "I'll be building and shipping the pins in a few short months also he said ~October 2014. Both of those times were fraudulent and yet he did not send back the money which is a bitchy thing to do. When you promise something in a certain timeframe and he may be a year or years late if he ever does make the game. What right does Kevin have to you guys money if he not doing anything for all these months now since he obtained three quarters of a million dollars?
Not saying everyone invests in the stock market, probably very few Pinsiders put long green in the market. But the fact does not change that any money taken out of my overall pile of money, would effect the amount I have to invest. If I buy a new car, that's less to invest. If I go on an expensive vacation, less to invest. All money is taken from one pile of moeny, so if you subtract $3000 that's just as well saying you take $3000 out of the stock market if you invest. You didn't invest in the stock market you invested in Kevin's bank account. You didn't buy a pin really because no pin exists that he can sell you, you payed for a chance at a pin. I did not invest in Kevin, but I would be PO'ed if I had.
Now, in theory, the stock market could have gone down or could have gone sideways but the reality of what has happened is that the stock market (US average) has gone up 17% maybe more not sure with dividends might be close to 19% in the past year. My stock of choice AAPL probably closer to 60% in this time since Kevin collected his war chest.

Opportunity cost should be the least of anyone's concerns with the way things are now.

#3464 6 years ago

Would it be worth someone starting a "Predator Refund" thread, where everyone who has requested a refund, post ONLY once, with their original refund request date -and then update the post if/when they get a refund?
I'm not in as a buyer so I won't start it -but I thought it might be interesting to see how many people post on there.

#3625 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So very true, but unfortunately there are some that love nothing more than to see something burn so they can say they knew better. Some thrive on the screwing of others and for a long time have been rooting for failure.

WhySnow: this is exactly the disconnect that exists between you and so many other Pinsiders.
(Hence all the thumbs down votes to so many of your posts)

You are defending the company from "the haters", but many of these critics aren't "haters" at all.
They just didn't believe what was being said even early-on. As it happens, apparently there were good reasons to question Kevin, his words, and his actions.

At the moment, I am extremely anti-SkitB but I am not anti-pinball. Nor do I want to see any of you guys get screwed.
An excellent example of this is the fact that I call Bullshit on anyone saying "Give him the weekend to respond" or "another couple weeks" -cause he's had your money for far too long already!
Personally, I think he's dangerously close to acting "criminally negligent" if there's such a charge -and I think that he should be treated appropriately. I think that he should IMMEDIATELY disclose how much money he collected, and how much he has left currently. I think that probably that money should be divided between the buyers and this whole project ended.

Do you see how that's very different from a "hater" (me), wanting to see this fail?
Even if there were individuals who contacted Fox, they may have helped stop this in its tracks before things get worse and even more money is spent, before the project implodes.

Two sides to every story. Very doubtful that many Pinsiders take enjoyment from the misery of others who share their love for this hobby.

#3971 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I was posing a genuine question. For those that are all for mr x contacting Fox concerning the license for pred, why are you against the same actions for all other games from other manufacturers? Has anyone seen proof that Stern actually has the full IP rights for WWE? If the lesson learned here is supposed to be trust noone, then why would you not support people actively reaching out to all IP holders?

You have officially slumped to a new low.
Are you serious? Serious?
Because Stern, JJP, and every other manufacturer out there displays their titles online, for one. They don't hide their games. They also have a track record.

You have officially "lost it" WhySnow. Time to take a break until rational thought returns.

#4013 6 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Im on vacation. There are no rules

First sensible thing you've said all thread.

#4431 6 years ago

Irony: number 7

100 Greatest Punk Rock Artists
1. The Clash
2. MC5
3. The Ramones
4. The Sex Pistols
5. The Stooges
6. Dead Kennedys
7. Fugazi
8. Black Flag
9. The Misfits
10. Bad Brains

#4466 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

In 10 years, what do you think the 3 Predator prototypes will be worth?

Nothing. Well, to me anyway.

#5282 6 years ago

No skin in the game, but I'd like to congratulate all the Mr X's out there for putting an end to this.

Any one of you other pre-order guys could have/SHOULD HAVE done whatever needed to be done to confirm that there was a license. I'm not saying that I would have, had I pre-ordered, so don't take this as "How could you be so stupid!?!", but rather: "Some of you have pretty big balls, blaming the people who finally brought this fraudulent train wreck of a project to an end."

Wanna know what it would be like if they hadn't stepped up? Go read any of Kevin's recent posts, tell yourself you're still getting a Predator pinball machine, and sleep well... tonight.

If you're honestly disputing how they handled it, and how long they took to let you all know, why don't you ask yourself: "Why wasn't I involved in proving this outfit to be a fake?"

Well done boys!

#6226 6 years ago

If any of you are not receiving the same customer support from your credit card companies that Oopsallberrys got, I would suggest that you tell them that you KNOW PayPal has been issuing refunds and that you are fully expecting your card company to make the request on your behalf.
If they give you any nonsense about expired deadlines, keep escalating up the chain of command, stating that "if other credit cards are providing support to their customers, it's obviously time to switch cards".

Maybe other Pinsiders could share: is anyone giving your grief about expired deadlines? Cause it doesn't hurt the card companies to file a refund on your behalf.

Good luck!

#6228 6 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

My CC company said they couldn't even see charges to my card past 6 months. Guess I'm going to have to request to "talk to their supervisor"...

Fax/email them a copy of your statement if necessary. (Assuming you have one)
I would make it as clear as possible to them that PayPal is on board, despite the timing.

#6236 6 years ago

Now the question begs: how many get refunds before the well goes dry.

Fingers are crossed for all of you guys!

#6329 6 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

the lady at paypal told me he is not allowed to go to any shows

The lady at PayPal, or his insurance agent?
I can't imagine that if either Kevin or JPop attend future expos, that things will go "smoothly".

2 weeks later
#7126 6 years ago

Why are guys even arguing about this? Kevin lied about having the licence and was essentially gambling/risking your money by doing so.


#7210 6 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

How they did it. Bravo!
Me thinks the contingency from TX, CA and Canada due protest too much. Things that make you go hmmm......

What's Canada got to do with anything that happened?

In other words: please post ANY evidence you may have, or may have heard, that would imply any of the AG is from Canada.

2 years later
#16143 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Identity of kids and dog protected. Also removed other named individuals that left comments on her Facebook page.

$hit son; that there looks like a double-wide! Kulek's be like bazillionaires or something.

Seriously, the best part of this whole thing is even if the judge let them all go scott-free, they lose. Forever.

#16214 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Looks like they picked the worst spot in the area to live... no wonder the house was dirt cheap. Still shut down as of Sun afternoon

Planning. Not a Kulek strength.

#16221 4 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Karma is bs. Again, what did his neighbors do to deserve being flooded?

Or to have the Kuleks as neighbors.
"Oh look Honey! They've decided to park the double-wide shit-box in the driveway!!!"

#16223 4 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

That's not nice putting words or imagery into peoples heads that aren't true. That's the defendants job.


#16607 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Screenshot for posterity

Anyone else wonder if "Trending Stories" article 4 is related to what's happening here?
(Headline on the top right side)

#16656 4 years ago

The reference to these being "toys" is ridiculous. It's the $ that matters.
If someone broke in to your house and stole one or more of these pins from your place, nobody would use the argument that "they're just toys".
Fraud is fraud.

2 years later
#18293 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Still amazes me that in the course of a year, that idiot blew through 500k with zero to show for it.

A fool and his money...
Not to mention, have you ever watched a documentary about lottery winners who've since gone broke?
Often from opening businesses they thought they'd know how to run.

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