(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


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#1052 4 years ago
Quoted from icust298:

If you're going to get fired for looking at a "boob" pic at work, you're not as valuable to the company as you think.

you are SO SO SO wrong....

#1063 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Whenever you're in Jersey, the party will be ready....

pm me when that one happens, i wanna be there...

#1067 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Anytime!

You don't have to wait...

if spring ever gets here, i'm taking you up on that offer...

#1086 4 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

All these requests for refunds cannot be good for business.

tough... skit-b put themselves in that position...

11
#1194 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Yep and now some people are pointing fingers in every direction but Skit B. In the end, Skit-B is the one responsible for $1 million + in pinsider $$$, they need to get it done.

it really is that simple, isn't it? collect money, have responsibility for that money...

blame everyone except the person who took the money... yea, that'll work...

13
#1201 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Is it possible Kevin is being responsible by not shipping games until whatever issues are resolved? It would be somewhat reckless to ship games if there are underlying issues with licensing. I too was getting impatient with things and expressed this to Kevin via email about a month ago and he offered me my money back if I was no longer interested in staying in. He mentioned a few hurdles he's had to overcome that have slowed things down and I was satisfied enough with his explanation to decide to stay in. Hopefully he decides to communicate a little more with buyers to instil some confidence.

it was his responsibility to ensure he had a clear license before he even collected a dime...

try harder...

#1248 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So the logic here is that if PBN was in any way doing some investigative reporting to see if Skit-B actually had the Predator license from Fox, they have LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!!!!?

considering some of the twisted logic displayed in this thread, it doesn't surprise me that some have convinced themselves of this...

#1254 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Whysnow, I'm not sure YOU are familiar with how any corporation operates based on some of these statements.
If you've ever even SEEN a contract from a company as big as FOX, you'd realize they tend to be EXTREMELY detailed is what's allowed and not allowed- to the point that ones eyes usually glass over. To suggest that they might not have been clear on things like online advertising and even the use of the WORD Predator is just insane, laughable, sad, or all three.
Also, to think a REAL licensing agreement would be so shoddy to make "phone calls from meddling kids" break it - it just beyond comprehension...

true dat... some of the contracts i have with some of my clients will literally make your brain want to leak out of your ears... they cover EVERYTHING...

someone should ask him to provide a copy of his original licensing agreement...

10
#1261 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Why cant anybody Provide the names of the these upstanding people who have taken it upon them selves to decide what titles can and cant be made? If they have decided to make 250 collectors loose there money. They should be rewarded multiple law suites for there malice. Why let them hide behind a keyboard?

there is one entity, and only one entity, that has taken money and not provided a product...

the "loss of money" is entirely upon that entity...

and that entity isn't PBN, or "mysterious callers", or anyone BUT skitb... THEY started a "business" (term used VERY loosely), promised a product, and collected money...

#1319 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

There is only one plausible explanation to all of this. Wes rectally smuggled a cellphone into prison and is using his time there to undermine other projects to make Vonnie D look good.

wolfmarsh wins the internet for the day...

#1442 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

He has said this repeatedly, people choose not to believe him. Which is their prerogative.
At this point, it's going to take finished games to convince the doubters.

nah, all it would take is a copy of a signed legal agreement between skitb and fox... which has been asked for and not given...

#1456 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Here are direct quotes from Kevin that are in the Predator Updates thread from a couple of months ago.
Regarding Licensing:
“Licensing is obviously a big deal, and while these types of things have simply been accepted in the past, indie pinball (yes, I'm going to keep calling it that) is potentially a completely different beast altogether. Gathering copyright and likeness permissions is a huge, daunting process, but is very rewarding in the end. That being said, this is something you need to have reasonably taken care of before making any major announcements or commitments, and we've done a lot of work and spent countless hours making sure everyone involved is happy with how things turned out. I have many stories I could tell here, but I think I will wait until a time when there's a little less actual news to catch up on At any rate, I can see how one might wonder if a small indie startup would be able to handle this sort of task, but it is certainly not an issue over here. Don't expect any wild omissions or absences when you open up your first Skit-B new-in-box!”
Regarding deposits:
“We have been working very closely with PayPal for a long time to make sure that every penny that goes through us is well-protected and secure. They have been extremely helpful and have developed a strong personal rapport with us that affords us the luxury of open and direct communication in any and all situations. With the security of all funds being absolutely paramount in ANY foreseeable case, there are processes that must be followed and while they can take a bit of time to work with, the end result is that even if we were to literally die or encounter a license issue or disappear to Venezuela or whatever other rumors there may be, we do so without risking a cent of your money.”

at the risk of being bombarded with thumbs down and "hater" comments...

what a load of crap... the stuff about paypal is downright laugh out loud amusing...

13
#1566 4 years ago

maybe "not cool", but sadly "quite true"...

#1770 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Bump for the snowstorm:
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hideKate Upton Swimsuit Sports Illustrated 2013.png (Click image to enlarge) 1

why can't kate show up at my door to offer to shovel the snow????

#1794 4 years ago

well, if your investment is never at any kind of risk, issuing a refund should be simply a matter of pushing a button...

it is interesting to know that paypal is a guarantor of skitb... assuming he withdrew any funds at all, the "agreement" he has in place with them explicitly puts them on the hook for that cash if he doesn't deliver...

i was not aware that paypal is now in the venture capital business....

#1858 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

For 3% of a million bucks sure they would!
I know Chuck uses them it's the best rate a small business can get on CC purchases.

sure, anyone can get that agreement... there's nothing magical about it...

what kevin implies is that he has a "special" agreement that somehow paypal is guaranteeing the funds against loss...

which is complete and utter bs...

#1940 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The Oscar Skinny Curse is coming for Scarlett too!
She's a good actress eventually she will get an Oscar... Then... Prepare for the Worst!

nooooooooooooooooooooooo...

#1969 4 years ago

the second one....

the first one is a total fantasy... as noted several times...

anyone who believed that skitb had some time of "special arrangement" with paypal, please pm me, i have a bridge for sale cheap...

#1978 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Ok...
So when Kevin said this, did he really believe it to be true, or did he know what he was saying was untrue?
If this was untrue and knowingly said, what other things were said that may be equally untrue?

perhaps he somehow convinced himself that he had an agreement with paypal that not only does not exist for him, but exists for no one...

perhaps...

it's more likely that he is fos...

#2101 4 years ago

< waiting impatiently for our pics of the day >

1 week later
#3005 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Yeah. There are a lot of legal requirements of having the non profit status, and a lot of things that could get him in trouble. For example, if he really is a non profit, he would have had to close the fiscal year on a lot of the payments he has already gotten. There are numerous tax implications here. Much bigger problems than I think he can really imagine.

yea... and "the man" isn't real forgiving when it comes to that... if he truly is what he claims he is, and hasn't done the accounting to the letter (in multiple years, no less), building pinball machines will be the least of his issues...

agree with your "real problem with that" post as well...

39
#3570 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Come on man, this is way beyond him taking the weekend off. Kevin needs to man up, it's as simple as that.
Let's start with baby steps. There is absolutely no reason he can't take 1 hour of his time and refund 2 people. If you can make a rational argument against that, other than it being "the weekend", then I'll gladly shut up.

i think that any of us who run a business literally lol'd at the thought of "taking the weekend off" in the middle of a train wreck like this... i think that any of us who run a business have spent plenty of weekends at work for FAR FAR lesser issues...

#3579 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Totally. I might as well be a peon at the company I work for right now and I've already done a couple of hours of work today.

yup... even during my days in the rat race, there were plenty of weekends worked... i would have really liked to seen the reaction of any number of the people i worked for if i said "ah, y'know, i know work has to be done, but i'm just gonna blow it off because i need a weekend off"...

the whole "too busy to respond to emails, etc" stuff that has gone on for months is laughable enough, again, would any of you get away with that as a business owner/employee? i know i would no longer be in business if i did that... suggesting to "wait til monday for a response because its the weekend" kinda goes beyond laughable to just plain silly...

26
#3944 4 years ago
Quoted from starfighter:

just got back from the Ohio show
logged in
1300 posts since Thursday
I'm a PIF owner and I plan on reading all of it, but if some one can post or pinsidemail me a brief summary, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance

jafo here, but... a short version...

a long long time ago in a universe far away...

the pinball community was in a state of "irrational exuberance"... you could buy a machine, play it, and sell it for more than you paid for it... a few people decided they were going to make their own pinball machines and sell them (jpop, skitb, vonnied, etc.), and due to the gung-ho attitude of the community at that time, many people jumped in with both feet...

"predator" was a theme that many wanted, and the price point was "cheap", considering the marketplace... also considering the marketplace, many were afraid they would miss out on "the next big thing"... kevin also attempted to assure people of the safety of their money due to his "special agreement" with paypal...

time went by... stuff (art, various toys, etc.) got made and shown... occasionally people would start to get cold feet about lack of progress, but decided to stay in (for whatever their reason, or from whatever outside influences)...

at least 2 years ago, someone raised a question about the license, and was told essentially "licensing is hard, and you'll have to trust me that we have what we need, because we spent a lot of time getting it, but i can't show it to you"...

time goes by, no pin is produced... more cold feet, refunds requested, but not processed...

some time ago, all signs that there ever was a machine called "predator" were completely scrubbed from the earth...

time goes by, no machine is produced, and no communication from kevin... many more cold feet, many more refunds requested with no response... many many emails sent requesting information/clarification of project status which also received no response...

in the past few weeks, apparent facts have come to light that seem to show that kevin was never in possession of any licensing agreement, at best he holds a letter that explains what he can do under the "fair use" doctrine... also, he may or may not have incorporated, and be may or may not be falsely incorporated as 501c3 non-profit...

the last several pages are basically "ok, what to do now?"...

imo, and only imo from what i have read here...

- a license never existed, and kevin somehow thought he'd get away with selling a commercial product under fair use doctrine...

- parts got made by various vendors, more pictures of "stuff" got shown to buyers, and so on... initial deadlines were missed, and easily written off as "making pinball machines is hard", given the fact that even someone like jack (who has massive resources and connections compared to kevin) struggled getting a machine out the door...

- fox sent a complete c&d letter to kevin (basically along the lines of "wtf do you think you are doing with our ip?"), which essentially stopped whatever was left of the project dead in its tracks... this resulted in the disappearance of "predator" from everywhere...

- since the time of the c&d letter, kevin has known that there is no way he can sell the machine legally... thus he has disappeared, with the exception of a few reassuring phone calls to a few members here...

- there is very little money left... he didn't collect the full amount on all 250 machines to begin with, and enough anecdotal evidence exists to show that a good portion of that money has likely been spent...

i feel no sympathy for him, but i would not want to be in his shoes right now... he literally has no good options here... he owes a whole bunch of people a whole bunch of money... if (as assumed) the license never existed, he is guilty of multiple breaches of criminal law... and if (undetermined at this time) he truly managed to lie and incorporate falsely, that will not be looked upon kindly either, and may prove to be the biggest of his issues in the end...

one person's view, anyway... i'd add that i feel very bad for the people who will lose their money... i know how much it would "hurt" if i was out that type of cash with nothing to show for it... for those people, i wish i was wrong about how i'm interpreting the situation... but sadly, it is difficult for me to come to any other interpretation...

#3952 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Shi*! This has the makings of a pinball documentary mini-series or a Jack Black comedy.

there are several masters theses just waiting to be written about any number of events in the last 4-5 years about "start up" companies in the midst of a booming niche market... both from a business standpoint, and from the "crowd psychology" standpoint...

15
#3967 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I wonder when people are going to start contacting IP owners for every other pin manufacturer. Has anyone reached out to WWE to make sure Stern has the license? game of Thrones is rumored to be next, anyone know they have the correct IP rights acquired?
Are people actively reaching out to make sure Alien is licensed.
Has Mr. x contacted the hobbit IP holders also?

dude... you are REALLY reaching now...

#3995 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

One of the most important questions to be answered in this whole fiasco in terms of potential fraud/criminal charges is whether Kevin received a C&D letter from Fox before he asked for the additional payments?
If so, he's really going to be in deep shit.

ayuh, that's gonna be a really sticky wicket...

given the apparent timing of events, the pile of fecal matter will be high... i say apparent, since i don't know exact dates... but my understanding of the sequence of events would seem to indicate that he at least solicited funds post c&d...

i freely admit i could be wrong on my understanding of the sequence of events...

#4048 4 years ago
Quoted from Tharizdun:

I'm just a spectator enjoying all of this ....

there would have been better choices of words to use than "enjoying"....

#4128 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Of all the emails Kevin is personally responding to "in the order they were received", it's amazing that there is not one Pinsider here who has gotten a response yet?

possibly he is still on dial-up?

#4916 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

We had not been able to make any meaningful progress with John.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

well, that's shocking...

#4917 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

I think when a project this large comes through Pinside, the seller should be vetted and pertinent info stickied somewhere. I don't blame Pinside, but a cool head in a position of authority early on would have stopped this. Isn't that one of the things a mod is supposed to be? A hard lesson for all involved I think.

nope... mods are here to make sure we behave... they are under no legal or ethical responsibility for people making decisions...

#4923 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

YES! The fact is they're complicit in this. If any of us found out there was no license we would've come here and layed it out in the open...the whole "To catch a Predator" "we are an anonymous group" shitshow was just weird and juvenile. I've been told there maybe a pinball competitor involved, also a Pinsider that's in the entertainment industry, this will taint their motive for ever.

bull.... it's been clear for awhile that there was no license, and you kept repeatedly thumbing down posts that indicated that...

here's something for you: "join reality"... stop looking for other boogeymen, and accept the fact that there is only blame for one person...

14
#4934 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Yeah? I've posted numerous times if they have facts to post it, but they just wanted to wait for the big train wreck.

paranoia isn't a good thing...

"whistleblowers" are protected in our country (speaking parochially as a us citizen) for a reason... and no, they don't go running out as soon as they have information...

keep on believing that the whistleblowers are the "bad guys"...

it was VERY obvious there was no license quite some time ago... if you chose not to believe that, that is your issue, not the people who blew the whistle...

please do not tell me that you believe that kevin called the number on the back of a dvd case and got to "use anything he wanted from the movie", etc... it should be very obvious to anyone who is a member of pinside that there is just a TAD more to licensing than that...

#4969 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

True, but to the hundreds of hardcore Predator fans in the pinball world, no sh*t people would trust this kid for their chance to have their own Predator Pinball machine. I'd give my left nut for video game themed pin

one would hope that if you were gonna sacrifice a nut, you'd do the proper due diligence...

#4996 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

How do we know "mr x" wasn't someone from JJP or Stern? It's sort of akin to people trying to route pinballs without tax stickers (because they want to slip under the radar and make more profit), and the other person routing pinballs in the area pays his taxes and narcs on the other router because why should he have to pay while someone else doesn't.

yea, and it could be an alien from mars too...

neither gary nor jack gave two shits about kevin...

geez... COME ON PEOPLE!!! stop grasping at straws and focus...

#5150 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Simple then: Ask Kevin to produce it. Show the paper contract. These things don't happen without paperwork, so it shouldn't be hard to produce for you.
You said you'd vetted it already, but obviously you were just going on Kevin's word. Let's see the paperwork (spoiler: it doesn't exist).

yes, it really is that simple...

what is somewhat mind-boggling is that (apparently) not even one of the "vendor people" involved in this project asked for "real live proof of approved licensing" when initially entering into an agreement with kevin...

it would be one thing to have that level of trust if you were entering into an agreement with someone you had a long standing relationship with... but to have that level of trust in some kids in the basement?

#5179 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Paging Martin....
That itself is a big story...a competitor company taking Skit-b down. Fox denies Skit-b the license after he tries to apply for one because they refuse to work with an idiot who tried to pull a fast one on them. This is genius..at least diabolical.

dear lord...

11
#5187 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Fully understand.
Then it seems he did a hell of a lot of work for a "scam". Perhaps the only "scam" he was running was trying to fly under the fox radar. But, he messed up by taking basically forever to finish and produce the games and the crusaders jumped in to save us all. And by save I mean prevent the game from ever being made.
If he refunds everyone then there was no scam and it explicitly proves the crusaders(and kevin taking 4 years lol) ruined the project.

nope, you don't understand at all...

#5195 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

So you're saying kevin started this entire thing to be a scam? That's the counter to my only point I'm making. If so, that really sucks of him

see below...

Quoted from tamoore:

The scam was he started selling a licensed game, WITHOUT A LICENSE. There is no way these two things are congruent with the intent not to scame.
The scam continued when he decided to take in money after he received a C&D letter for selling a product with content which required a license that he did not posses.
a C&D letter means exactly that. CEASE! He did not. The law will not be as friendly as you seem to be.

the scam started day 1, as tamoore points out... no license, collect money...

the hole got dug deeper when he did not comply with the c&d...

whether or not he refunds every dime has zero bearing on the above...

#5252 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Ok, so I get that. Again, that doesn't mean he wasn't going to produce the games and ship.
He would obviously be sued by Fox at that point, but still not a scam perse to the end user.
We haven't ruled out that Kevin is literally that dumb/ignorant to ignore and continue to produce lol/
I get what you are saying, and do agree to a point, but Im just saying maybe he really did have the anticipation of thinking Fox would simply let this go? Obviously an ignorant stance of his if he took that, but not unlikely.

you still don't understand... scamming fox IS scamming the end user... he took money for something he had no right to produce...

whether or not he thought fox would "simply let it go" does not make it any less of a scam... news flash: even if fox hadn't caught on, and by some miracle everyone got a machine, it would not make it any less of a scam... it would merely mean he got away with it...

#5267 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Just thinking about his tax situation alone operating like that makes me want to cry. Talk about a babe in the woods.

Quoted from frolic:

ouch. what a mess.

yea, that can't be pretty...

#5416 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

You continue to be as obtuse as possible.
He interjected himself into the damned issue when he came here and proclaimed loudly and professionally that he had seen the license, and he wouldn't be involved in any project that wasn't fully licensed.
He would have been way more helpful if he would have understood that his job was just to make cabinets and had not come here to do damage control for Kevin - with incorrect information.
His involvement in this certainly gave cover to Kevin to further engage in his fraud. It is irrelevant whether or not you understand this.

bingo... there's no grey area here... the posts from the person in question left no grey area... they were clear definitive statements...

i still can't wrap my head around the fact that not one "vendor person" actually saw an agreement, yet still made "stuff" for kevin...

#5424 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

First of all, while I'm sure many of you feel like you've been lied to and taken advantage of, I can assure you all that no part of this project has been created or carried out with any sort of intent to deceive or defraud anyone.

above quote from kevin's email...

unless some type of miraculous discovery takes place that invalidates all the evidence that exists, this sentence indicates that he is either completely delusional, or he still thinks he can lie...

#5451 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

I think you are casting too wide a net going after all the vendors. There is a big difference between taking someone's word that they had the license (like we all did here when we sent this guy money) and jumping up on a milk crate to assure all the doubters that everything is fine. LOTS of vendors sold goods and services to Skit-B, or entered into business arrangements with them in good faith, only 2 of them put their reputations on the line to promise things they did not know for sure was the truth. I have no ill will towards the first group, and no sympathy at all for the second group. If you want to put your neck on the line for something you haven't verified, you can't bitch when it gets cut off by the truth.

i'm not really "going after" them... what i'm saying is that i can't wrap my mind around the fact that these people "took some guy's word" for something as sensitive as licensing... i don't have a lot of sympathy for those who proclaimed (loudly and definitively) that a license existed when they had never actually seen it... whatever flack they get, they deserve... hopefully they added to their "business acumen" as a part of this disaster and learned their lesson as well...

you'll note i'm being very careful in these posts to NOT "blame the buyers for not knowing there wasn't a license" (i have noted that it was pretty clear for quite some time there wasn't)... although i have my own feelings about that, that's a topic for a much later date...

#5454 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

And who are the non-swimmers in this situation? This guys life is ruined. His family will likely suffer from this. Yes, he's a fool and yes he bears the brunt of the responsibility. He started and perpetuated the charade. But OMG look at the impact from that. And all of this could have been stopped with a couple simple questions.....

they do not give purple hearts for self-inflicted wounds....

#5468 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't blame you for not going "papers please" on Kevin. This is a small hobby, and it's built on a lot of trust and community, and I don't really have any problem with that.
I don't really want things to get to the point where vendors helping each other start requiring forms signed in triplicate.
Your mistake wasn't trusting Kevin, you're hardly alone, it was speaking up the way you did. If you had simply said "I haven't seen any license, I'm going on Kevin's word alone" it would have been a very different story. Instead your post implied that you had some higher level of proof.
As with everything else, this comes back onto Kevin's head. I'm sure you learned a lesson from it all the hard way, doubt you'll make that same mistake again.

generally i'm in agreement with your posts/thoughts aurich, but part of "running a business" is ensuring that your contracts/agreements are in place...

i would HOPE that it gets to the point where vendors require forms from each other... because that alone would stop any potential fiasco like this from happening...

it's nice to look at pinball as a "hobby", and for the great majority of us, it is... however, when you are attempting to build/sell a commercial pinball machine, it is no longer a "hobby", it is a "business", and all normal "business rules and ethics" should apply... and that includes ensuring that whoever you decide to partner with has the proper "pieces" in place, and "trust me" does not count as "ensuring" for me...

#5473 4 years ago
Quoted from dung:

No the police would not have knocked on owner's doors. Fox would have taken Skit to court. Skit would be screwed. The people who had games would still have games.

um, no, not if fox decided to push the issue... the games would be impounded with no recompense to the owner, never to be seen again... the outcome of fox really pushing the issue if machines had been produced really isn't in doubt... the "owners" would have nothing in the end, other than the possibility of suing kevin...

21
#5488 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I have a question. What made these people run to Fox and tattle that this guy was making these games? Why would they do this knowing the shit storm it would cause and that it would cause everyone to lose their game and money?

perhaps they don't care for illegal activity...
perhaps they had an axe to grind...
perhaps there are other reasons...

however, i have a question for you... if you watch someone steal something, do you just go about your business like nothing happened, or do you report it to either the person it was stolen from or the police?

the "it's ok to break the law if you get away with it" attitude of many is downright scary...

#5509 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

however, i have a question for you... if you watch someone steal something, do you just go about your business like nothing happened, or do you report it to either the person it was stolen from or the police?
the "it's ok to break the law if you get away with it" attitude of many is downright scary...
I don't personally know what I would do. If I know what they were doing I would have warned the people who were invested in the project. I would not do anything that would cut their throats. The loss to these people is a lot greater than the loss to a movie studio that makes billions. I have far more loyalty to the average man than I have to a large company, banks or the government, all who have most likely screwed the little guy countless times in countless ways. You asked and I'm being honest

well, i'll give you credit for being honest... "stick it to the man" has no bearing on what is ethical/legal though...

i hesitate to bring this in as an example, but i will... "the little guy" put the music business on life support, basically entirely based on the theory of it was ok to "stick it to the man"...

i have "loyalty" to "ethics" and "the law"... what personal feeling one may have towards the party involved (i.e. stick it to the man, they've been sticking it to us for a long time) does not change what is "allowed" and what is "not allowed"...

35
#5517 4 years ago

anyone who wants to blame pinside/pinside moderators for any of this needs to take a step back...

they have ZERO responsibility (and if was them, i would not open myself up to it) to vet and approve "new projects"... pinside has not been, is not today, and is very unlikely to be in the future involved in "signing off" of projects... that would be a rather large mistake, imo, as they then open themselves up to involvement when "shit hits fan"...

nor do they have the responsibility to "protect you from yourself"...

#5526 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Let me add that I wouldn't have done it in the first place and if I were to have been in the know I would have tried to stop it but when it comes down to whether it is the little guy or the man getting screwed I will damn sure want it to be the man who in many and I dare to say most cases have no loyalty to ethics and law.

yup... keep "stickin it to the man"...

the great majority of businesses are run on the straight and narrow... we have no choice... well, we DO have a choice... we can choose to ignore standard accounting practices, business ethics, etc. it will likely bite us in the ass in the end, and it's much easier to "do it right"... i've lived through an irs audit of my business, it is NOT as enjoyable as spending the weekend with gemma would be...

since it's tax season... i'd be willing to make a large wager that if you audited "the little guys" returns vs. "the man's" returns, you'd find a LOT more squirelly stuff from "the little guys" (charitable donations, anyone???)... the man finds "loopholes" that aren't available to the little guy, no doubt...

don't confuse a few high profile cases (and TRUST ME, i want to see certain corporate leaders ROT in jail) with the way the great majority of businesses are run...

if you choose to let your personal feelings override respect for the legal system, that's your problem...

18
#5534 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Who knows, that';s probably exactly what happened and the "punk side" of Kevin got the best out of him. He said, "f*** that bs" and he took the risks. He was rebellious but in the end it didn't go the way he planned.
To be honest, in business you need to take risks to succeed so this was his big risk. Successful businessman will tell you that they all once had a lucky break from doing something shady. Those who are in business will definitely agree with me. The one's that don't make mad profits are the people running clean in life.
But definitely going against Fox and bringing the paying customers on a ride definitely takes a lot of balls and a lot of heavy metal music playing in the background...

no... i run a successful business (and i am SURE i am not alone), and i do NOTHING "shady"... to imply that you have to "cheat" to become successful is simply silly...

you can succeed in business without cheating/lying/deceiving... and you can also take big risks as well... businessmen takes risks all the time, legally...

please do not conflate the "risk" of making a LEGAL decision to "take a big risk" with what kevin has done (chose to do something ILLEGAL and hoped he'd get away with it)... they aren't even remotely similar...

#5542 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Depends what particular law your talking about.
Murder and J-Walking are pretty much total opposite sides of the scale, yet both have laws prohibiting them. Would you call the cops if you saw someone J-Walking? If a law is bad, we have the obligation to make it known and not just blindly follow it.

reductio ad absurdum...

16
#5545 4 years ago

@nintendo...

here is a quote from your original post... it does not say "some"...

"Successful businessman will tell you that they all once had a lucky break from doing something shady. Those who are in business will definitely agree with me."...

i AM in business, and i AM disagreeing with you...

and i am not alone in being clean and successful...

#5546 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Might be bullshit, but it's reality. If Kevin had capital to fund this project you think he would ask people for preorder deposits? Hell no. Hence the reason he had to go shady from the start (Start a Predator project without even having the license in HOPES he will eventually get it).
When he didn't get it this is when things turned illegal. As I said before, I am certain he didn't get into this project to scam people. It just turned out ugly but we'll see in a few days/week if he refunds everyone their money.

nope... things didn't "turn illegal"... things WERE illegal the very day he asked for money for a product that he didn't have a license for... we've already covered this ground...

he started without a license... he collected money under the pretenses of having a license... he repeatedly assured people there was a license... it was a scam from DAY 1....

#5552 4 years ago

@nintendo... you seem to think that it is only a "scam" if the people who put money into the project do not receive money back or a machine... you are incorrect in that...

your last paragraph is dreamworld...

edit: but i'm glad you agree that you can succeed in business without being a crook...

#5556 4 years ago
Quoted from gamestencils:

SkitB: Hi fox! We're a couple home-brew pinball guys that have made a really cool pinball machine themed after your Predator movies as a fan project, we're super fans! We'd love to offer them to others in a limited production run if we could obtain licensing, is this possible?
Fox: NO.

you forgot the pause while the fox guy hit mute and laughed his ass off before replying...

#5558 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Perhaps it's a dreamworld, but one thing to think about is that everyone has their own opinion, their own views, their own values and beliefs and we see can clearly see them all clash in this one thread.
I can't prove that his intentions where to scam everyone who bought into Predator, but I can't also prove that his intentions where NOT to scam everyone who bought into Predator...

thing is, it's not "opinion"... nor values, nor beliefs...

unless by some miracle fox finds a signed agreement in their files (or kevin finally produces one), it was indeed a scam from day 1...

whether or not he intended to deliver machines is not relevant... and as noted before, even if he HAD delivered machines, and fox somehow never caught on, it is STILL a scam... he just would have gotten away with it... getting away with it doesn't make it any less of a scam...

#5595 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I think we both know the definition of "scam", although it can vary slightly.
But what are you trying to say? That the real reason he created this project was to scam the buyers or not?
Because my whole opinion/argument is based on him "not" wanting to scam people from the beginning and doing this out of true passion and heart. I just don't see any traces of this being a pure scam from the start. Now if he never showed any pics, went to any conventions from the get go then I'd back you up on your theory. But Kevin was pretty much putting himself out there in the community (address, full name, wife, etc...). So it's not like he was "hiding".

dude... for the last time... when he collected money for a licensed product that he did not have a license for, he was scamming the buyers...

whether or not he intended to deliver, or even indeed deliver, has ZERO relevance...

again, you seem to believe that if the buyer ended up with a machine, they were not scammed... you are mistaken in that belief...

20
#5604 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

"Dude", Collecting money for a licensed product that he did not have a license for is NOT scamming the buyer. It's called conducting business "illegally" and screwing Fox over, not you. Now, not refunding you the money and running to another country would definitely conclude this was all a scam for you, the buyer. But he's still living in what New Jersey or wherever he's from where he can be contacted by you, me, the police, etc... So like I said it's not like he's hiding. He's there, in the flesh, he even responded recently to a few emails. No one had the balls to call the cops because they are waiting on a few days. But you can bring him to court right now if you wanted to if you really believe this was a scam.
My argument all along was based on his intent and if he REALLY wanted to screw the community. My arguement is NOT based on him doing business illegally by not having a license. Two different things.

sigh... i give up... you'll never understand...

#5619 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I bought "LogMeIn" from a salesman on the phone that said the program would work via my Samsung Galaxy S4 through windows XP. I gave have him the exact specs.
Guy charged me $100 and I went to proceed with the installation. Low and behold the software is not compatible and doesn't work with my android operating system. I called the guy back and told him it didn't work when he said it would. He said he can't refund me.
I called Visa and got my money back. At any point in time did I consider this a scam? Nope. Was it unprofessional of the salesman to not refund me? Yup. I don't think it was the salesman intent to "scam me" out of $100 for a non-working product lol.

and this has exactly what to do with the price of tea in china?

#5637 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well, this is what I told him initially that everyone has their own views. He just doesn't budge lol.

you are right... i won't budge... as i am correct...

it's not a "viewpoint" issue...

#5693 4 years ago
Quoted from Wahchintonka:

Oh, and for everyone who yelling Scam! Scam!, here's some food for thought. If it was a scam, he would have been answering every question and would not have let rumors fester. The worst thing for a scam is doubt. Did he completely mis-manage and just flat out f@&$ up? Absolutely yes. Scam, no.

#5736 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Why I waste my breath, I'll never know....

because i needed a break from beating my head up against the wall, so you took over and bloodied your forehead for awhile...

#5784 4 years ago

a follow up "open letter to kevin" from the ag... scroll past the initial story...

https://predatorpinball.wordpress.com

12
#5872 4 years ago

probably an unpopular opinion, however...

keep in mind that kevin prompted the follow up response from the "ag" by his wording of his refund letters and mention of "real story" coming out in pbn in a few days... if kevin had merely send emails saying "the project is dead and i'm refunding your money", i'd make a (small) wager that the follow up post would not have happened...

i have no clue of their motivations, nor do i care... but after kevin had full chance to respond to martin's original article, and then the follow up "first post" from the "ag", he still seems to be trying to play the victim card... i know i would have followed up with a blog entry very similar to theirs...

will they get the answers to the questions they posed? if kevin is getting good legal advice, likely not... but i can certainly understand why the post was made...

let's not forget the lessons that "we" learned over the past few weeks so quickly...

#5898 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

There's a lot of chatter about who's culpable, who fanned the flames or who has hidden agendas. I myself initially questioned why some people didn't step up sooner. But let's please not lose sight of the real issue at hand. Kevin has nearly 1 million of pinsiders money and he needs to refund it pronto. Once pinsiders have their money back we can then debate who else was at fault and what the real story was. For now though refunds are all that matter.

yes, which is why i made my last post, even though it might not be popular... people need to focus on kevin (and kevin only), and they need to keep that focus, and they need to keep hounding him for their money AND keep following up any other avenues they might have (chargebacks)...

for WAY too long, people lost their focus and blamed "others" for kevin not producing machines, and so on... i would HOPE that the lesson of "focus on the person who f'd you, and stop trying to make excuses for him" has sunk in...

Quoted from YKpinballer:

I'm hoping for their sake the AG just stays anonymous, too many butthurt people plan on turning on them like a bunch of jackals.

i do too... as it seems like many still would like to find a place to place the "blame" anywhere except for where it belongs...

#5902 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...and he's got to work out if people are getting total refunds or just divvied up from the monies left. And then work out the % as people have different amounts in...

Quoted from toyboy6:

On top of all of this, how does Kevin sort out who gets what, AND HOW, when he must have dozens of credit card disputes in his inbox too. I don't know how all of it works, but could he potentially have to worry about "double refunding" if he issues refunds shortly to everyone and then any of the credit card disputes try to debit too. I'm sure there is some way to flag this through paypal or the CC companies, but what a mess (of his own making).
Scott

assuming his accounting is anywhere close to being in order, this should be a very short and easy process...

#5906 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

All this talk of refunds is nonsensical. I am not waiting patiently for Kevin to process a refund. I am going after my money full speed. To date, he has clearly shown he is not forthcoming with anything. Why would I choose to believe him now?

you are a wise man...

-1
#5921 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

I suspect that would be a huge assumption.

me too... but even if they aren't, it shouldn't be a herculean task to tally up how much he's got and how much he owes... i'd wager he has a solid handle on how much each buyer has paid as well...

#5925 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I am still unclear why anyone would pay for any machine in this manner.
I have had dealers tell me that they will shave off another $200 or so if I pay by bank transfer or check. On a $6,000+ machine I am not paying with anything other than American Express. My peace of mind is worth much more than $200.

you answered your own question... to some, the $200 bucks is worth more than the peace of mind...

i'm in the same boat as you though...

#6070 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

While I know Martin cares about the hobby, and I do like him, I think he needs some competition too.

domain names and webhosting are real cheap... go for it...

#6073 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm not saying you're wrong but this hobby seems to still be growing at a remarkable pace (it's not so little any longer). I think the audience for pinball news is large enough to support two news outlets.

actually, it's VERY little... but...

quoting myself....

Quoted from ccotenj:

domain names and webhosting are real cheap... go for it...

#6075 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

But wouldn't that same attorney say "Hmmm, well nobody has filed an actual lawsuit against you at this point ... so you probably should refund the money as fast as possible because that IS WHAT YOU PROMISED YOUR CUSTOMERS." Otherwise, he's just opening himself up to a couple hundred civil lawsuits, no?
P.S - I'm not so sure Kevin is smart to enough to have an attorney yet. If he does, I'm sure the retainer came out of pre-order money.

one word answer - no...

ps. i'm not so sure he is either... he may still believe he has a way "out" of this...

#6082 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No.
It can't go like that.
Kevin will have the Fox federal criminal case first, as that is already in the works.
As much as he would love to refund the remaining money, he would love to keep his ass out of federal prison even more.
(Can anyone imagine what the prisons are like in Michigan???? Filled with friendly faces from Flint and Detroit?)
So no doubt, he will spend all the money he can possibly scrounge on his criminal defense, then declare bankruptcy.

he's lucky if he ends up in the federal prison system rather than the state prison system (or county jail, ftm)... given the "assumed crimes", he'll end up on a "white collar prison farm" far away from michigan...

#6101 4 years ago
Quoted from jkdblaze:

Does anyone in here have an opinion on which agency is the best to file a criminal complaint for internet fraud with, IC3 or the FTC or both? While I have already filed a chargeback, I have no idea if it will A. Damage my paypal account B. Damage my credit in any way. C. be denied altogether. Also, I'm pissed for the guys who payed through bank accounts, etc. and have their money locked up with Kevin. This man committed a fraud worth close to a million dollars, and the silence is unacceptable.

i'd pursue every avenue available....

no to a and b... a chargeback for non delivery of goods will not effect you...

#6146 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

hi all- yes he is reading along with about a thousand other people.not all pinball people.people not involved in pinball might just look at all of this while reading these posts thinking this group of people reflect pinball as a whole..you might want to think about it for a second.im just thinking in future pinball deals with fox or anyone else might get that special look..you know the look

i don't think that if an established pinball manufacturer wants to talk with fox licensing that he has to worry about getting a "special look"... let's invent a guy, hmm, we will call him "gary"... gary has a proven track record of producing his products, following contracts and paying his bills...

after introductions and pleasantries are exchanged...

gary: ok. i want to make a commercial product with your ip attached... i'd like to use x, y and z... i want to use it in "these" ways... what are my options and what will it cost?
fox: we have total control over "x", and it will cost you $A... we have to consult with someone's agent on "y", they may or may not agree, and it will likely cost you $B... you cannot do "z" at all...

gary commences with seeing if he can get "y"...

in conjunction with this, he also finds the cost of the music rights he needs via the same method with different people...

he then does his math, chops out stuff dependent on cost and availability, decides if it's feasible, and signs the necessary contracts if it is feasible...

then he pays what he is supposed to when he is supposed to...

why on earth would someone who has a proven track record "get that special look" because some idiot in a basement decided to try and pull a fast one on fox?

#6150 4 years ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

I should have been more clear..not a company with a proven track record.i stand corrected.

fwiw, had kevin gone to fox ip to begin with, he would have gotten a "special look" anyway, as after all, he is just some kid in the basement... but that would be true regardless of which widget he wanted to make... if you think joe schmoe can just wander in off the street and say "hey fox ip guy, i want to make this" and the fox ip guy doesn't say "before we discuss any details, provide me the following about your business and we will get back to you", you need to change your way of thinking...

so no, nothing has really changed at all from the perspective of acquiring licensing...

16
#6487 4 years ago

sticking head up briefly before going back into lurk mode...

when people are talking about "refunds" they got, they should make it clear whether they got a "refund", or their card issuer successfully processed a "chargeback"... they are two different things..

#6492 4 years ago

cool, just wanted to make sure people were differentiating... because a successful chargeback in no way implies that there is money in kevin's account...

#6493 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Ahh, okay. Just out of curiosity, in these situations, I assume the credit card company is issuing the refund from their own pockets? Does that mean they'll go after Kevin (or PayPal?) in order to get reimbursed themselves?

yes... once the chargeback process is initiated and successful, the acquirer is on the hook for the funds... it is then up to the acquirer to get the funds from the merchant....

non-delivery of goods chargebacks are a daily occurrence... this is sop for credit card/merchant processing...

#6495 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Right. The CC company will go to PayPal first to collect funds. If nothing is there, they will go to Kevin.

close...

the card issuer (the bank that issues you the card) isn't involved in the collection process... once a chargeback is successful, as far as they (and the cardholder) are concerned the transaction never occurred...

the group that "acquired" the transaction (in this case paypal, and i won't claim to know how they have their subsidiaries set up, but one of them is acting as the acquiring bank for the transaction) are the people who then have to go get the money from kevin...

key takeaway from the above... "chargebacks" happen regardless of whether the merchant has available funds or not... it is the "rules"...

#6765 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

That would be like a new high end car company starting off and building a vehicle comparable if not better then anything Ferarri offers in 3 years. It's a big accomplishment.

while i applaud jack for getting a machine out the door, let's contain the hyperbole JUST a tad...

1 week later
#7199 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

There is a reason not all creative people run businesses.

there is a reason that very few creative people run businesses... because they can't get out of their "creative world" and deal with the other 95% of the "stuff" you gotta do (like, oh, "production", for example)...

edit: not saying that SOME creative people can't run a business, but the ones who survive doing it recognize that they have shortcomings in certain areas and actually hire people who then take care of those areas...

ime, "creative people" are best off when they are put in a playpen and allowed to "create", but are supervised by someone who is holding a very tight leash on project scope...

#7206 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

I offered that to Kevin as a possibility.
This was his response, "That's an interesting proposal and while I will certainly consider it, it might not be a great idea right now with the license holders keeping such a close eye on us for the moment.".

that is a VERY enlightening response from kevin... it strongly implies that he thinks (or is at least portraying that he thinks) that the ip issue will simply "go away" in time....

#7333 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I think Pinside needs to do what Disqus did, and that's removing "Downvoting" as a whole. Only use the "Upvote" which is more productive and does not generate hate between two users. Probably half of the arguments on Pinside happen because of downvoting. Sorry but that's the truth.

i think this would be silly, and would only result in more "nasty posts"...

guess what? people are allowed to disagree, and express that disagreement.... it is much better that i push "downvote" rather than express my disagreement in a post, which just gives the argument legs...

if you are really THAT worried about it, you need to re-examine your priorities in life...

#7342 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I guess your priorities are in line if you're questioning what mine are?

you missed my point...

my point is "don't sweat the downvoting".... it's merely a sign of disagreement... and that you shouldn't be bothered by people on the 'net disagreeing with you...

sure, some people piss in each others cheerios... it doesn't take long to figure out who they are, and to disregard their opinion as unimportant...

10
#7421 4 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

http://www.pinballnews.com/comment/predatorpinball2.html
Kevin talks with Pinball News.
I'll give my opinions in a separate post.
Marcus

have fun parsing that, ummm, hell, i dunno what it is... i can't think of a diplomatic way to say it...

15
#7441 4 years ago

just as a fwiw... with the exception of the headline, i think martin did his job on this one... he allowed kevin enough rope to hang himself multiple times, and kevin couldn't oblige enough...

as alluded to earlier, parsing this is a mess, considering all the outright lies (in many cases, he either lied "then" or is lying "now")...

i am not as generous as marcus in my conclusions though...

#7448 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Somebody help me here. I am truly at a complete loss for words, and that doesn't happen often...

that makes 2 of us... that's the cherry on the top, so to speak...

i can only imagine what a kick in the face that is to the numerous people who have been trying to extract blood from the stone for a long time...

#7464 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

".... and that's what I'm giving you now; the middle truth."
I gotta try this one on my wife.

i hope you have health insurance... i know i'd need mine if i tried that one on my wife...

#7467 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Hope any and all Pinsiders will go out of their way to make Kevin Kulek and Crew as unwelcome as possible at any and all pinball events, expos, forums, etc. This scumbag and his cohorts should be blackballed by all involved in pinball. Absolute scumbag who likely deserves a significant ass kicking.

i think it is reasonable to say that kevin won't be real welcome at too many pinball events, et.al.... pinside may not be the entire pinball community, but i think it is safe to say that anyone who runs any type of event (at least here in the states) is a member here, and they are aware of what has happened...

#7487 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

You offer him a place to state his side. You act like a journalist, not a stenographer, when you interview. If he gets backed into a logical corner and ends the interview early, you report it.

sometimes the best journalism comes from simply being a stenographer and letting the interviewee hang himself...

sure, he could have pressed on some of the issues mentioned above... i find it difficult to believe kevin would answer them and he did end the interview at that point*, possibly kevin doesn't try to pull off the charade that everyone has seen through...

not trying to be argumentative, because i don't want this to turn into "messenger discussion" instead of a "kevin discussion"... just saying that there's a couple different ways of thinking about it...

* and honestly, had he answered them would anyone have believed what he had to say anyway?

#7643 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not quite what you're asking, but here's Roger Sharpe saying that all pinball licenses he's negotiated cost "far less than" $100 per machine.
http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/
If Kevin were able to negotiate like Roger (ha!) he'd have been paying something less than $25k to Fox for the whole project. Of course he'd also have had to comply with licensing requirements for the design, actually pay for the music, etc ... All a total pipe dream in Kevin's case, of course.

i also believe that production volume plays into "per machine" cost... also, a "per machine" cost for "what ip?"... i can pretty much guarantee that if someone wants total free rein with ip (as kevin claimed he had), with no limitations, it's probably going to be considerably more (if you could even get the ip holder to agree to it in the first place)...

someone brought up the "long tall sally" licensing earlier... now, if he spent hours and money getting that license, to claim naivete when it comes to fox licensing is beyond disingenuous, it's outright deception...

#7645 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Not gonna happen....

oh yea, i know that... there's no way that anyone with ip of any value is just going to let anyone do whatever they like with it... that's just not happening... i was just tossing that out there, since the supposed license allowed kevin to supposedly use whatever he wanted...

#7648 4 years ago
Quoted from Sparky:

Didn't he say on the Pinheadz Podcast that song was the most expensive part of the license, but it just had to be in the game? That was summer of 2014.

might have been... damned if i remember... keeping track of kevin's timelines is hard...

i suppose since he paid nothing for the fox license, the 99 cents he paid for the itunes download of "lts" technically WAS the most expensive part of the license...

#7661 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Someone needs to send that to the detective who is supposedly looking into Kevin's actions.

yea... i'm a total layman, but that is relatively damning (i'm trying to be kind)...

-1
#7666 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Someone needs to send that to the detective who is supposedly looking into Kevin's actions.

along with this from 2 years earlier...

a) licensing (no surprise)...
b) apparent claim of non-profit status... while this has been brought up before, it kinda got lost... this may, should someone choose to pursue it, be a VERY sticky wicket for kevin...

Quoted from jonnyo:

2012 interview for Spooky Pinball Podcast.
9:00 - Interview with Skit-b begins.
10:30 - Talks about the licensing. "It's all taken care of, it's all legit." "We have a couple close friends over there who are helping us out."
12:00 - talks about production details, production number, "Hopefully shipping games by the end of the summer.(2012)"
16:15 - Says he's "not exactly welcome back there" referring to his old job
20:45 - Hosts asks how he will pull off building 250 games. Kevin says he has friend and volunteers chomping at the bit to help. "There's like local intern-type kids who go to the college and want in on it."
22:30 - Talks about being a non-profit. "If we have a lot of money rolling through, we'll get lost in it, but if we're legally obligated to keep track of everything, and not spend anything, it helps a lot."
http://www.spookypinball.com/http:/spookypinball.com/spooky-pinball-podcast-show-26/

#7702 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There were always some red flags with Skit-B, but this is definitely one of those red flags that I had missed until recently. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

yup... that is a HUGE red flag...

i would find it very difficult to believe that someone who was producing commercial pinball machines as their business would be able to get themselves qualified as a "non-profit"...

also, it would be pointless for him to do so... there wouldn't be any benefit in it, and all it would do is cause a ton of extra work...

#7830 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Great. Kevin Koolaid is going to prison and the lawyers are getting our money. I'm never trusting a pot head again.

don't lump as all together...

16
#7834 4 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

It makes me sad that this excites you. I'm all for justice but they his daughters did nothing and will be victims of his actions just like all of us. This is not something to cheer about.

i don't think that you got the sarcasm in the post...

that being said, sorry, i have no sympathy... kevin kulek knew what he was doing, and if his children have to go for visiting hours, so be it...

#7846 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

There's no way vid. I estimate about a quarter is gone. There's no way it's "all" gone.

you'd be surprised how easy it is to spend what seems like a very large amount of money...

#7871 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

I wonder how much the Mythbuster guys charged for the appearance to promote EOD?

well, jamie isn't exactly known to love being amounst "the people"... so i'd wager it wasn't free...

unless somehow kevin kulek connived a way to convince them they had to appear for free under "fair use"...

12
#7877 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

To think, this all could have been avoided by acquiring the license up front.

it's unlikely that he could have ever acquired the license up front... they were self admitted kids in a basement, with zero money, zero plan, zero business structure, zero production experience, zero zero zero... you think fox was going to license their ip to them?

#7898 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Money moves mountains

sure... but as i noted in my post and jonnyo alluded to in his, kevin kulek did not have the money to move an ant hill, let alone a mountain...

#8038 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

I wonder if he or his family could legally sell the prototype after all this, he will definitely need the cash and I guarantee someone would drop a lot of money on it.

i would tend to doubt it...

#8042 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

you are not serious, are you?

i think he is...

i think he is correct... the chance to own the "one and only" predator machine would be too much for some people to pass up... there are people with VERY DEEP pockets around here...

#8048 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

People paying 30k for a pin are not paying for gameplay. They are paying for the story...few games have the story this prototype would have.

yup... it's not being bought to play at that point... it's a piece of history...

#8051 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's just like the old saying "The world's best mechanic is not necessarily the best garage owner".

he rarely is...

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