I have mixed emotions about Mister X being a good/bad player in this debacle. Yes, two out of three of them recovered monies (if I remember what I read last night correctly). But it looks like there was no way to save everyone. My first thought was that they helped to 'F' everyone. But further thought makes me say this project was never going to complete. Even if it went under the I.P. radar indefinitely those who may still stand to lose $250 or $3,000 may have just been taken for more money. It looks like 10 were going to by built giving the investors the false sense of security to squeeze the final payments out. So Mister X might have still saved 190 people $1,250 or $4,000 more. The debate about the Mister X group falling on their swords and taking a loss with everyone else I wouldn't bother with. They saw something wrong, started investigating and pulled out. You would have also.

As for Kevin, assuming he's not in jail in the end goes from rock-star to hermit. With the loss of his life-long pinball hobby I think he should start collecting license plates. Maybe he'll be better at making those.

I hope this has a happier ending for all investors who just wanted a cool pin.

Simple, when a lawyer from a big company tells you to keep your mouth shut in a nice way with intimidating words you tend to listen. You don't want to be an obstruction to justice.

We will find out for sure. But from what we hear so far it never was going to be done.

I'll bet if Gary did not have to go through licensing he could lower the prices also.

Don't forget to get the rights from FOX before making the movie. Or if it was made under the FOX label do you "assume" you automatically have the rights?

John Kerry got a Purple Heart, Silver Star and an Honorable Discharge for a self inflicted wound.

Is this thread ever going to close?

Agreed. But this thread went too far off topic. Stupid pictures have nothing to do with refunds.

Today I learned I am not. Go figure.

Holy crap. Does this mean today everyone who got the refund is going to find out it did really happen?

OPM - Other People's Money.

As in Pre-order Deposits.

Fvckin A

This thread did a lot of venting. Deserved and needed. But now it is time for calm information.

And maybe some court room sketches of crying and then and interpretive dance play involving prison sex.

You want to see a Predator? Grab your ankles Kev.

Edit: But I in no way condone any violence. Just acceptable retribution as delivered by the court and prison system.

The owner of the machine is Fox. They will probably have it confiscated and no money returned to anyone.

Go and make something with Disney IP or Star Wars and list it on eBay and watch how fast you get a C&D. Or take a Gottlieb manual to a copy machine to make manuals for sale and you will hear from Steve Young pretty darn quick.

People have a lot of money into IP and are protective.

Oh No, another thread getting political . . .

Hey, that's the same as my luggage.

Coming up on post 10,000 today. 14 to go.

I hope no one gets the idea to post a bunch of blank posts real quick and then go back to edit each one to show the count down. No one should even think of sneaky things like that.

No one would do that, 11

Or from a magazine that has a coupon for him.

I won't do that a third time.

Sorry, Feb 19, 2026 falls on a Thursday.

Why not? It is a skill he can use in prison.

Thank you for the leg work.

Is this "full list" the list of people who filed in court against him or done from the Predator sales records? I ask because a friend of mine was taken and so disgusted with the whole thing he just turned away to forget the whole thing and did not file anything legal against him. But it would be nice to know his money is included in the final total of this guys debt and still being held against him. In case it is determined by the court that he did commit fraud it would be nice to know the whole large number is being held against him and not just a portion.

Get him for tax evasion also? Now there is a collection agency that won't let him off so easily.

If he has the records to show the money went into the business. Any monies not accounted for are in his pocket. Any monies paid to labor better have had social security taken out and W-2 forms issued for that tax year. Those receiving needed to pay income tax even if he was paying himself. Do you really think he tracked every dollar? I'm with Trekkie on this. I think this was large enough where IRS involvement will haunt him much farther than trying to collect.

And someone with a video camera documenting this cash income would also be amazing. Approach the owners of the places he has these machines.

Wow, so depressingly true.

I am serious, and stop calling me Shirley.

I was going to do the same post yesterday but then realized when typing it out it is "surely". So it gets lost in type.

No one thought they were being lied to. They were taking a pin to shows and had promo stuff on websites. The best camouflage of all was being so out in the open. Many people were fooled or they would not have built cabs, put money down . . .

Hindsight is 20/20. There is only one place to point the finger.

I think that is great and probably a first. Post the story and see if people want to pitch in to go FU-- the guy.

Well, if they were practicing medicine without a license they would go to jail.

No license, crime.

Before - I don't know Kevin
Now - While I do know Kevin

Your quotes.

If HappyDayz is Tim Fife then he is using a duplicate account to get around his frozen PinChilli account correct?

The fact he came here to talk people out of continuing litigation and if anything has now fired people up with the opposite effect is just great. Let Kevin fight with his family and friends.

HappyDayz is now Frozen (can they still get PMs?)

If Tim bought the game from Kevin then Kevin has to declare that money and pay taxes correct?

If it was not a sale then it is still property with illegal IP and open to confiscation and destruction.

HIja'

(I always fall back on Klingon)

Does that mean he could lose his house after all? (Item (10))

Reading this again here is what I interpret (with no legal background or even nights in a Motel 7)

I guess he can file bankruptcy but the court assigned "Randall Frank" to be trustee of the estate to liquidate and remaining assets. Keith sued on behalf of the buyers. He also convinced the court that his intimate knowledge of the whole situation would make him a valuable resource and got himself appointed by the court to be "Special Litigation Counsel" to the estate. This means he would be able to identify property bought with deposit money and help with the asset liquidation to cash for return to those owed money.

During a hearing he got Kevin to admit he didn't have a license, he continued to take money knowing he did not have a license and he bought the house using Predator money. On top of that he admitted he signed it over to his wife to try and protect it from this type of process.

It leaves him open to more lawsuits. I have no idea what this 2004 examination means. It also mentions some statues that we can only hope means he violated some laws that may lead to criminal.

Overall I think this was a good day.

Every time his kids ask "daddy, why don't we have nice things like the other kids" his wife should tell them "we'll kids, your daddy is a lying piece of crap".

The instruction card is 15 pages of Latin gibberish.

There is a document from the court with a list of names and amounts if someone wants to get the exact number.

No one mentioned section 2 (b) where he deposited "over $54K Income" but reported no income 2013, 2014, 2105. To me this reads tax evasion. While good for getting him criminally it is bad because the treasury department will want to be paid first from any money discovered.

So yes the bad paperwork and disappearing money is big and leading to criminal. The treasury department considers you guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. And this guy does not have the paperwork to prove anything.

I'm also interested in the pinball machines and equipment held in other people's names statement. Are these other Predator games, vending equipment bought at auctions and/or paid for by Predator money and used to run a vending company. This is real interesting stuff.

Agreed. Everyone keeps trying to find some "master plan". I think the story about him walking into the ramp maker's meeting in his jeans sums up his business sense.

I still do the Hawaiian shirt Friday thing. But only when I know the audience I will be seeing that day. I dropped the full jacket and tie monkey suit a long time ago. But when I have a meeting and there will be people I am not that familiar / comfortable with I still wear a collared shirt and tuck it in or I feel I am being disrespectful to them.

Sorry, but people coming into my office with resume in hand for a job interview wearing sandals (yes, it did happen) might as well spit on my desk. Until you know the comfort level or have proven yourself you are being disrespectful to me.

IANAL either. Heck, I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express. But I like that the first thing on the document says "COUNT I". To me it seem like a criminal identification.

That is the issue. While it is nice to think "this would make it stick" the legal road is a PITA. It would be nice to know the expected twists, turns and cost ahead of time down the road. But this road was designed by lawyers to keep their pockets lined. If you really knew the costs of time, energy and money more people would make the decision early to bail and that does not benefit the lawyers.

If the money is nothing and the time gives you satisfaction then go for it since he should pay his debt. If you need to move on there is nothing wrong with that either.

No argument. Keith seems to want this right. And maybe he gives ore details to his clients. But it always seems you never get a list or flow-chart showing where these things can or usually go. If you knew from day one it would mean paying a lawyer, years go by, continue this, he declares bankruptcy here, you need another fee there. I just would want to know what to expect. Otherwise along the way you either have to say "I'm in it this far might as well keep going" or "can't keep throwing good after bad I'm out" and wish you never went this far.

Lawyers wrote most of the laws we can't navigate without paying a lawyer. Congress writes the laws. While the percent of lawyers in congress has dropped dramatically to 40% now from 80% about 50 years ago it is still a huge percent and does not reflect the people they are supposed to be representing.

Your pedestrian assumption about my nickname Taxman thinking it is related to the IRS or taxes in anyway is a totally wrong assumption. But funny you should mention that since the job of the IRS is to implement the laws created by (wait for it) that same lawyer packed group in congress. People blame the IRS for making things so complex and convoluted when they should be pointing the finger at the same group who made civil and criminal laws as well as tax laws. Why are they so complex? Because in order to get elected and get favors (akin to lining pockets again) they write special little loopholes into the tax code to appease their constituents.

Funny you should bring in another profession riddled with litigation healthcare with medical malpractice costs for physicians. Legal costs for hospitals and drug companies...

Please don't tell me society has not become over litigious. Common sense laws to fix issues like frivolous lawsuits would be fairly simple. But this would cut down on the need for lawyers and the only people who can make this fix are - lawyers.

When people talk about the legal system being long, slow, broken, ... there is a reason and a group you can point the finger at and they invented the system they have to navigate.

My point was never against Keith. I believe he actually wants justice and is doing everything in his power to get it. The fact that he got the court to agree to include him shows he is not just filling out paperwork, but working for the clients. You do not need to defend Keith.

My complaint is with the system he is navigating. It seems to have too many ways to drag things out. As you say using obstructionism. People who deserve justice get less because due to attrition.

I don't think it is him, just his type.

Keith, if you listening. Start the meeting by saying "This meeting is being recorded". End the meeting by uploading to YouTube!

(I know he can't do it, but to watch his face without the cocky grin would be great)

At least tell us what he was wearing.

He can't since he is Inactive.

I guess he did post against a victim before going away. I guess he's not going for the Verified check mark.

Add a poll. Is the rabbit going to run or get put in a cage. I can't imagine he will have anywhere near the documentation to satisfy the court.

the_more_you_know2 (resized).jpg

As long as it double-posted me I might as well type something.

So his lawyer did show up but he didn't? The lawyer that Keith tried to contact 7 times?

It says he will be detained until he fully complies with the court order. If he can't produce the paperwork does that mean he could spend life in prison?

I was not serious. And I while I want justice I would not want that either. I'd rather see people get their money back and he just go away from the hobby.

I was being sarcastic because the justice system, while great in many way, does have flaws. When you have murderers being let out and people with minor offenses with a harsh minimum sentence in for years things can get lopsided.

Because you have a conscience. People without shame or that don't have empathy for others only care about themselves. Those things that would keep us awake at night let them sleep soundly with pride of getting away with things.

Clay made sure every time he talked about them that there are only two "Kevin Built" machines.

Why would someone admit to it? You're calling them a "snitch" and that does not exactly sound positive. I think that is why the original article came out in Pinball News from "Anonymous". People would come after him/her/them with pitchforks claiming they would have gotten their games if he was just left alone. (and they would not have)

Rather than calling them a snitch why not call them the person who may have saved other people from risking their business. There were people making cabinets, parts and other items under thinking there was a license. This is not just about this idiot taking people's money he was also risking people's livelihoods.

Not really. This is a long thread with people discussing the legal case being pursued against this guy. And it is obvious that he or someone he talks to reads the thread. So they do not want even the appearance of some kind of mob mentality or any kind of encouragement. It really is wise. Nothing to do with being offended.

And buying mom a trailer.

Kulek

I know these are the only "Kevin Built" games asked to be returned to the estate. But when it comes to cabinets and parts is Clay going to have to give back what he has or does he have a receipt? Anything magically appearing in the future sounds like it could be a liability until the debt is paid.

I always loved "It's a Mad Mad mad mad World". So much talent in one great package.

Well Tim, did you have receipts for the sale and value of the arcade games? Or is "deemed" just good enough for the courts in PinConing?

Another collector? Kevin declared himself a producer and seller and collected $1M+. That is not a collector so if he sold an item it should have a bill of sale and a warranty statement. These crank-barrel arguments are not even good in a cartoon court.

No. You can't be the only person to get one of these games because you are the criminal's friend while everyone else who paid actual money gets screwed.

Just the thought gets people even more unhappy. Thanks.

Kevin did "try" some kind of a panicked refund from PayPal after the total collapse and everyone requested a refund. Victims received a notice that money was returned. Not sure if the money was not there, locked down or just Kevin doing a stall tactic. But they went to access it there was no money there. So the victim went from feeling like crap to getting a bit of hope and back to feeling shafted again.

Did anyone ever figure out what that was?

Edit (I type too slow)

Popcorn.gif

Daaaaaammmn this sounds good.

I'm not sure what I want to hear more. His voice squirming or a judge's voice explaining the colonoscopy.

I'm listening in pieces during commercials while the ole lady watches her show. This is killing me it is so good.

Mr. Nathenson should never have to buy a beer at a pinball event - EVER

I doubt it. Sounds like it was recorded for the record since the marshals grabbed him, broght him in front of the judge and Mr Nathenson has to call in. So it was recoded for the record. But next week they will meet at the court for Kevin's safety ( ) and there will be a court reporter.

My friend paid with PayPal. He received the notice that Kevin had refunded the money except for the $250 initial deposit. When he went to get the money of course it was not there. He is included in the list the court has for the full dollar amount.

Is the 1.2M "only" people ordering games? If he ordered parts and did not pay the vendor would that also not be debt from this sham that he owes? I doubt Keith pulled that number out of thin air without a paper trail to back it up. I would love to see the next meeting when asked about paperwork for things he had no idea he needed to track in a real business. The jaw drop dumb look would be a picture used for Pinball MEMEs for the next decade.

I wonder if The Smoking Gun will have his booking photo?

Na, Fred Gwynne? (AKA Herman Munster - RIP)

I've listened to it 3 times now. It is like a classic movie and holds up to experiencing again.

I think you need to wear a special t-shirt at the shows. We can have a best design contest.

OMG that is great. The Freakin Kulekmobile.

If she married him I'll bet her photography looks like the fuzzy pinball pictures "Fun" use to post.

Did I hear (at the 1 hour point) he got pissy with Keith when asked if he sold or traded a Predator or EOD pin with a Michael Menendez? Whose that?

Oh boy, his wife makes the money part - 1:12:30 as emasculating as it is . . . What a tool

So in the end he thinks there is an internet conspiracy out to get him. But if that were true wouldn't one of them been able to identify the route he does not own or have a friend of his running?

Time to find a paper trail of the purchase of the RV. If there is a large withdrawal at that time I bet the judge won't be too happy with him lying and hiding assets.

Who is this Mike that might have another machine?

That sounds real familiar. Something like her being at a show and heard saying to someone she got new furniture out of this deal or something.

I think the furniture store choices are Autozone or Pepboys.

If I remember correctly Kevin said he loaded the games to Tim for development purposes. Tim said he bought them. If Tim did buy them they would be his and Kevin responsible for reporting the sale. But since Tim does not have receipt they should still be considered Skit-B property and part of the estate.

Keith is asking about this. So if you have details you should probably PM with him. If not find out someone who knows. The more details that can be provided to Keith the more fun we have listening to Kevin explain this stuff to a judge.

I don't have kids.
I know "kind of" know what Minecraft is (South Park).
But after reading your post I figured this was real and not a joke.
I googled.

Yes but he told the court he did not realize they had any value. Does that mean Back Alley Creations made them for him for free?

You know if someone was to get hurt by one of those machines and threaten to sue the owner / operator I think the licensing and other questions would get answered by the owner of the establishment they are placed in real quick.

Ouch, I cut my finger on a sharp piece of metal . . .

We are all Icelanders?

He's too stupid to even realize this would count against him.

Judge: So who are these people on the internet and why would hey care?
Kevin: Um, they are the people who I ripped, I mean paid for my family upgrade.

Judge: And what are they saying about you on the internet?
Kevin: Well, they seem to be giving the prosecution information against me I did not want to court to know.

Seriously. Why would he tell the judge something so stupid. He took money, tries to declare bankruptcy to get away from it. Has already admitted to trying to hide a real estate purchase. And thinks the court is going to care if people are talking bad about him?

What is new? We already knew the court denied the discharge.

Never mind. I see you beat me to the post with some new listening material.

Oh man, I was listening and just lost my connection. It is like a cliffhanger.

The judge asked Kevin's attorney what he thinks he should do. He said something like -

Last week Mr. Nathanson said I should throw him in jail for a few weeks and maybe when he comes out he'll be move cooperative. But I was hesitant to do that.

That's not true. It was the judge saying he would toss him in if he wanted. I think the judge really does not like Kevin.

Kevin's attorney wants out. He wishes Kevin had some paperwork.

That Collier on the phone was great. Fraud, Fraud and Criminal. Great words to throw out.

I'll have to try to connect and finish later. Great stuff.

While I have never met any of these people in person, I hear their voices as if they are people I now know from a show I look forward to each episode.

Can I send "fan" mail to a judge?

Did I miss any audio? Bump for a link, I need my fix.

Thanks. It is so much more fun when we get to hear Kevin act as if he has a brain. Trying to avoid a direct question or telling the judge how people on the internet are saying mean things.

I saw the paperwork for the collection of the RV and monies. But I did not hear that discussed in court last week. Are these separate?

Yes, I am all caught up. I still want to know where the RV confiscation came from. We saw the written court order but nothing was mentioned on the 3 audio episodes.

I don't care if the IP is worth $1, I don't want Kevin to have it anymore.

I think Keith is recovering a heck of a lot more for the estate than his payment from the estate would ever come near. If people were going after Kevin without him would they get an RV, CNC, accoutrements, ... No they would get Kevin shrugging his shoulders in court saying he has nothing and a judge saying he can't squeeze blood from a stone. And [without Keith] the judge would probably not see the snake for what he is, give him the bankruptcy and release his debt.

Also the entertainment value of those court tape is priceless.

MG is not the only game involved here. I have a feeling he is still not "ahead". So this is more minimizing damage.