If the avenues do not work out I'd be concerned about the part "he knows what he needs to do." Because everyone getting a refund seems unlikely, right? We've seen numerous pictures of bags of parts and cabinets being made so clearly a lot of money has already been spent. I can't imagine how those costs are recouped to refund everyone?

Pred.jpg

Unfortunately it would seem those 10 games were never approved by the studio. I've seen and played the game in person at the Shark Club in Howell, MI. It was okay fun. But as others have noted, there really is a fair amount of gore in the game and obviously Arnold's likeness (among others) as well. It's hard to imagine how that could have been approved as is. Thus, I don't see those 10 games going anywhere if the studio has something to say about it.

So I would think this project would need a major restart (including re-pricing) to ever move forward. The problem now is, much money has clearly been spent. Folks will not get a full refund. Nate did sum it well. Admit fault, refund what you can, and move on.

Sorry to hear that. But options B and C cannot legally happen either, right? Whether it's in pieces or not it would still have to approved by the studio so unless Kevin is willing to do this on the side?

Aside from the parts purchased I'd also be concerned where Skit-B was getting the money to travel around the country with Predator for various shows, and developing (and producing) artwork and actual translates for their 2nd pin. If I had money on the line I'd be very nervous right now just how small my partial refund might be.

I think you only have option 4 ... accept only a partial refund and take the loss, whatever it is. Options 1 and 2 will go nowhere. Option 3 (legal action) will also cost you more than you will ever get back. As others have noted, Kevin does not live in a mansion. He has a wife and kids and his wife does small work on the side as a photographer (family pictures and stuff) as far as I know. I don't know Kevin personally but I don't believe he has another full-time job. Thus, I'd be worried he has been paying himself a small amount using the funds received from pre-orders (in addition to business expenses such as traveling around to shows) and that's why I would be concerned how much is left at this point.

All that being said, I've also met and talked with Kevin and he really did come across as a really, really nice guy. I just think this has gotten away from him and he is in way over his head at this point.

And translight?

Many, many pinheads in Michigan can claim the same. Roger is very active in the pinball community and just a very friendly guy to boot.

This is going to end badly for some unfortunately. Forget just being able to simply build a pinball machine (which they are apparently far from building at this point.) Does anyone else remember the hell JJP went through getting their "electronic" machine certified? (I forget the certification names a company needs?) Do you remember how much effort went into just designing the box for the game with all the required government approvals and what not? Do you think Skit-B is anywhere near that point for dotting their I's and crossing their T's? Heck no unfortunately. If a miracle happens shortly and the studio magically agrees to give a license, at a reasonable price, AND approves the current design (L O L), AND gets pre-order folks to pony up more money ... they STILL would have a huge mountain to climb to get this done and shipped to customers. Sorry. Not happening.

The ONLY question Kevin needs to answer is ... when will you admit this isn't going to work and tell folks how much money you can refund each person??? Because we know they won't get a full refund.

If I had just received this email I would be more frustrated than ever. He can send out a mass email like this but he can't send one out with the clear answers that everyone wants? He has to send personal replies "in the order in which they were received"? Seriously? I think he's training to be a politician.

Very curious, I cannot find any corporation registered in Michigan even remotely close to "Skit-B". The only company's with the word Pinball in their name at all are below. From what I've read you must register the corporation first before applying for nonprofit status (so it should be on file). Also interesting is that the law states "In Michigan, your nonprofit corporation must have at least three directors at a minimum". So if this truly is set up as a nonprofit who are the other 2 Directors on the hook here? Aaron Klumpp left a while ago, no? Now I'm really curious if they ever actually got around to registering this business officially?

Comp.jpg

It's more than that isn't it? But 750K minimum. I have to think a fair number of people said screw it, why not pay in full and just give him the final 1k now, right? So it's anywhere between 750K and 1.1 million I think.

No, I believe that is his mom, no? His wife's name is Amanda.

His wife's name? Yes, I'm positive it's Amanda Kulek. You can search for her on Facebook ... her page is public. I think Kathy is Kevin's mom (possibly an Aunt but I'm pretty sure it's his mom.)

I don't see any reason to bring his wife into this at all honestly. It may be she was complicit in what is going on but there is no evidence to suggest her involvement and no need to be harassing her IMO (at this point anyway). Although I'll admit it is strange she/they bought a new house somewhat recently and it's 100% in her name.

But Kevin is the one who needs to answer questions. From everything I've seen there is clear evidence that a lot of money was being spent. How much did he pay his mom (or others) for playfield artwork? Who knows. Did he pay her for "accounting" or other legal work? Has he been paying himself? I know he hired at least one person to help him out with everything (Jimmy I believe?) So how much was he getting paid as an employee? How much was spent building the prototype? How much was spent on travel and shipping the game around? How much was paid to Matt at Back Alley? How much was spent securing the license (lol.) Etc. etc. etc. They even had Skit-B shirts made and other marketing stuff. This did not all come out of Kevin's pocket.

I'm just crossing my fingers for you folks that at some point Kevin realized this was never going to work and this went from good intentions to bad. I hope he quickly determines the amount he can refund to everyone and just come clean and kill the project.

I'm more confused why you think the police wouldn't investigate this as possible fraud? At this point, I can't even find a record of him establishing a corporation (of any kind) here in Michigan. If 250 people do not get what they paid for and they can't even get a refund ... I'm pretty sure the police would investigate.

This is SO different. You guys are crazy. We're not talking small claims here .. we're talking somewhere between 700K and 1.1 million! We're talking money transactions that not only crossed state lines but international lines (wire fraud). We're talking about clear and documented communication from him that can easily be proven as lies (and thus, fraud). Unless Fox comes out and says yep, we gave him a license to use and there was never a problem and we never asked him to take down the Predator content, then he was LYING. He intended to deceive. Fraud! And unless he can realistically account for how all of the money was spent ... more fraud. Has anyone ever watched American Greed??

Read the whole thread. There are people who have been asking for a refund (repeatedly apparently) since January! I think he's had plenty of time.

Can ANYONE state they have heard of anyone getting a refund since January?

I hear ya, and it's nice that you seem to suggest that things really aren't that bad but I also feel for folks with thousands of dollars out there who A) Don't know when that "resolution" will be decide upon by Kevin B) What exactly are the options or best case outcomes people can expect and do they not have any say? and C) Being that so many others have been deceived for so long (including yourself you admit), how is it you're so confident you are not being deceived further?

I think someone said earlier it's only a bug right now. It's not an actual eject, it's just a warning (the message reads wrong.) Because we've seen the same message on other posts and those folks are still in the thread.

lol. That made my Saturday.

The one thing I still find confusing is how Skit-B could have ever been set up as a "nonprofit" as claimed (I think this should have raised additional red flags IMO). I'm reading the guidelines for the form 1023 (federal tax exemption) and I just don't see how a company that manufactures a product (and entertainment game no less) and sells that product can be accepted as a "nonprofit"? The fact that I still can't find any corporation registered in Michigan with anything remotely close to "Skit-B" (no "Skit-B", "Skit", "SkitB", or anything with the word pinball in it) still is troublesome as well in my mind.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/forming-nonprofit-corporation-michigan-36070.html

Even IF he got a license ... ANY type of license (which I doubt) ... there is no way so many of the things in this game would have gotten approved by the studio. The blood, gore, and likeness of some mega-stars would have all been scrutinized (nevermind the video clips, sound bites, and music used.)

This game is not happening (at least not from Skit-B). Get past it. Hopefully a reasonable refund process with the remaining money can be worked out. Because I'm confident people have anywhere from $250 to the full $4750 paid and how the remaining money gets divided up and refunded will be an issue.

Does someone know the gentlemen from Back Alley? It would be very interesting to hear from him on how many parts (for how many games) did he make and ship to Skit-B AND get paid for? Does he have money still owed to him? I would imagine those parts weren't cheap and that is money now gone. You can divide up the remaining money for pre-order folks but you obviously can't divide up a couple dozen skeleton toys (assuming he didn't make all 250) to give folks as part of their money lost.

I'm sure if Kevin wants to avoid legal trouble from Fox he better agree to destroy all cabs and all playfields. Those contain IP of Fox. As for the skulls Back Alley made ... those are just generic skulls and I don't think would fall under the IP of Fox.

I'm still curious if Back Alley was paid in full for the skulls/spine made for the game itself (not the toppers.) I would think he'll be eating the cost of the toppers at a minimum, right?

And technically speaking, couldn't Spooky be liable as well for printing artwork that was never approved and was IP of Fox?

If the money truly was being held be PayPal as promised then there is a very good chance PayPal has caught wind of this and has frozen the funds themselves (whether Fox requested it or not). Kevin may very well not have access to the money right now and simply cannot issue refunds even if he wanted to.

Were'nt those Kevin's exact words? He stated he had a close relationship and agreement with someone at PayPal and everyone's money was safe?

You need to have a company established in order for it to file bankruptcy. I see no registered company anywhere near the name of Skit B (I don't think you can just register a random name and then operate your business under a completely different name can you?) And I highly doubt he's filing personal bankruptcy.

From what I read on Michigan's website is that if you want to apply to be a "nonprofit" organization you must first register a corporation (not a DBA) with that state. When you're a corporation (a legal entity) how you operate and the name you operate under does matter. If for some reason Kevin did nothing more than file for a DBA in his local county I think that opens him up to all kinds of more legal problems (i.e. his personal assets can all be at stake.) Additionally, I have no idea how he could claim to be a "nonprofit" organization?

<Edit> Just read your explanation Rarehero which may well be true. Fair point. But he still doesn't seem to have a Corporation registered with the state (of any kind) and that really will open him to more legal trouble if all he is operating under is a "Doing Business As" (DBA).

WOW. Just wow. Based on the tone of this email it is very clear now that this isn't just smoke ... but a raging fire. I feel terrible for everyone with money in this (and like many others, I was "this close" to buying in myself.) People don't need an article from Pinball News to confirm they're screwed. THEY NEED KEVIN TO MAN UP AND TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT THE SITUATION IS AND EXACTLY HOW MUCH MONEY (PERCENTAGE) THEY CAN REASONABLY EXPECT TO GET BACK.

MAN UP Kevin and don't let Pinball News be the one to break the story to your customers.

Why are you so bitter that this has come to light? I don't get it. Even if the licensing issue didn't bring this to light right now, you still seem to be under the illusion that Kevin was ever capable of building 250 of these games. I'm sure you're as upset as everyone else about the situation but you shouldn't be blaming anyone but Kevin at this point. Lies, lies, and more lies.

I think when someone (i.e. Kevin) started making statements like "sure, whatever was in the movie we can use" it's time to be concerned (which was long ago.) The blood, the gore, the likeness of mega-star celebrities, etc should have ALL been red flags that something was wrong with the license and Kevin's naïve understanding of what he could do with it.

Of all the emails Kevin is personally responding to "in the order they were received", it's amazing that there is not one Pinsider here who has gotten a response yet?

Absolute crazy. Never had a license. Ignored a cease and desist. Finally shut down by Fox. Sorry, but it's absolutely criminal. He clearly understood what the cease and desist was and he knowingly ignored it anyway. That doesn't make you a "bad business man". That makes you a criminal!!!

Sorry to everyone with money in. This project is absolutely dead. As noted, those 10 games worth of parts are worthless because Fox would never approve the artwork. All artwork would have to be completely re-done and approved (playfield, cabinet, and translate.) There is no way people will trust Kevin ever again and who in their right mind would not want a refund right now?? Game over sadly.

I hope you guys get a good percentage of your money back. Good luck.

That's an excellent point!! I wish Pinball News had tried to get that answer out of him because as I've repeatedly noted I cannot find any company registered in Michigan by Kevin!

The meat of the supplemental from the "anonymous group":

LIES:
Kevin had a license that was “small” and/or “inexpensive”.
Kevin had license limitations that limited or prevented promotion.
Kevin had a license that expired.
Kevin had a license that ended up incomplete, weak, or had “issues”
Kevin dug out his “license” and discovered he “didn’t have what he thought”
Kevin had “issues with his license” that are “being addressed”.

TRUTH:
Kevin NEVER had an actual license for ANYTHING on Predator.
At any time. From day one.
Of any scale, scope, or cost. Not a cent paid to anyone.
Of course, yes: Before he took investor money.
Knowingly. Planned that way. Simply skipped the entire process. Period.
His plan was to attempt to build 250 Predators, license-less for all IP used.
Save/keep the license money. No approval processes, complete freedom.
Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out.
Completely hide the project after selling it, to eliminate risk of ever getting caught.

Please let that sink in. Read it again if necessary. The utter worst-case scenario assumed under the “License-Gate” controversy, was actually the true case. No problems or issues… no licenses AT ALL… and to Kevin’s dismay, he DID get caught.

People assumed there would be no way possible that any pinball creator or business, especially a bro as “nice” as Kevin Kulek, would have the brass balls and/or stupidity to risk a million dollars of other peoples’ money on actually building 250 licensed-themed pinball machines, without a license, hide it all for safety, and simply PRETEND to have complete unincumbered rights to it all…

But yes. Yes. Yes, it IS possible. It just happened.

Dear "Anonymous Group": Please investigate if Kevin skipped the whole process for even registering a corporation of any type!! I cannot find one which means this absolutely opens Kevin up to being sued personally which I think people would want to do to try and recover more of their money back.

I'm very sorry for everyone with money involved. But FYI, Kevin's wife has recently been bragging on Facebook and elsewhere about all of her new photography equipment and "studio" for her side business. As previously noted, they also have a brand new house in Midland MI purchased only months ago that is apparently 100% in her name alone. Could be completely innocent and unrelated. However, it does not look good at all.

Bottom line, I don't care how nice Kevin comes across in person. He deserves what is coming. And I don't think anyone should forget about Aaron Klumpp. My understanding is the 2 really did have a personal falling out. However, he was just as complicit and guilty before and after their departure.

I hear your frustration in your post and it's somewhat understandable. However, I think the license issue is only the most prevalent issue at the moment, but not the only one. The fact is, Kevin already admitted he couldn't build these machines and he never budgeted to have someone else build them. There were significant roadblocks to these games ever being built (certainly not without getting pre-order folks to put up even more money.) To say this has been poorly managed from the start is an understatement.

If you built a new cruise ship would you name it Titanic? I think the title alone is tainted now and might not sell well (with all the confusion) on that alone.

Kevin must be sleeping in this morning?? No new email from him yet? I can't believe he wrote last night that "he's still here" and "working through the process". This is clearly someone who does not care about processes much less accountability.

Also, one more thought for the few folks who seem very angry that "Mr X" brought this to light:

It is in no way fair to REAL pinball manufacturers (such as Stern and JJP) that some kid can skirt the entire licensing process to build pinball machines that directly take away sales from them. If I were them, I would be ticked.

That's only half of what he needs to do in my mind. If he says 80% (or whatever) of the funds are left, he better darn well show exactly where every dime was spent. Because keeping 15K (out of 700K or 1 million dollars) aside for himself to buy a new house (oh, just a random example) would be very easy for him to hide at this point.

If (and this is a big if) Kevin is telling the truth and everyone gets a full refund, any guesses how much money that means he is personally about to eat?? I mean seriously, if he had all 250 sets of skulls/spines made from Back Alley wouldn't that alone mean about $25,000 (at $100 a piece ballpark?) And what could the cost of 10 playfields be? The list price on Virtua Pin's website says $950 for a regular body, fully trimmed cabinet (decals are additional) so that's roughly another $10,000 right there alone.

For some reason I am highly skeptical that Kevin is able to just eat the probably $50,000 spent so far (minimum) out of his own personal account. Something is still very much rotten here.

It just doesn't make sense. There is no way all of the money is still there. And Kevin and family certainly do not appear to be wealthy by any means. Don't give up contacting your credit card companies and pursuing other avenues to get your money back.

Umm, I don't think it will be too difficult for even a junior lawyer to prove. Numerous emails declaring in no uncertain terms "absolutely we have the license" compared to Fox's statement "we've never heard of the guy or his project and we've served him a C&D". Case closed.

Oh man, you do not even want to know. Look at her public facebook page. She attends events with other "witches" in full dress and what not. God forbid you should ever say something religious around her because basically she (or Kevin for that matter) will try to talk well over your head with the history of religion and it all being BS. She is pagan (obviously) and to her it's the only "religion" that makes sense.

Agreed. Not arguing. But there seems to be ample documented proof available. So again, good luck with that Kevin. I don't know who would initiate the prosecution (if anyone?) But if they do ... yikes.

Unless she is also complicit, no? And I have a hard time believing she knew nothing at all and until everyone gets their money back and every cent is accounted for ... she's accountable too (along with her new photography studio and the new photography equipment.)

**personal info removed by mod**

Because why? I just find it interesting that only a few months she was on Facebook talking about completely remaking (or making?) her "new studio" and was getting all new equipment. I thought that might be relevant for folks wondering where their money might have went.

The one odd thing I find curious ... after MPE in 2014 (or 2013?) the artwork for the playfield was changed slightly (a few noticeable changes I thought?) I thought at the time that Kevin stated is was because the studio requested or demanded the changes? Was that really just a lie and they made the changes just because they wanted to?

If Kevin was EVER working with someone at Fox who reviewed their artwork (use of IP) can someone please get him to provide an ACTUAL NAME of the person? (as well as any documented agreement.)

Wow, if this is true then he should have no trouble giving at least one name of someone specific at Fox that he had to work with through the approval process. Even just ONE name that can be verified.

If it's not true then it is even more crazy. The lengths to which he went to deceive people would really be astonishing (and border on mental disorder.)

I honestly dont blame any manufacturer doing things legitimately for being disgusted by guys like Kevin. It's not "sabotage" when you point out someone is blatantly stealing someone else's IP. Worse, it's impacting business of those doing things legitimately.

I do believe "some" folks will see money returned. Unfortunately, there is NO way everyone gets a full refund. I'll donate $50 to Pinside if it happens. Promise. Kevin has clearly spent a LARGE sum of money and I just do not believe he could cover anywhere near the total owed out of his own savings. Sorry. Good luck all involved.

What?? Seriously Aurich? You believe people have a chance of getting a 100% refund? If anyONE does, it will be at the expense of another. I cannot see any possible way Kevin (and "Skit-B" in general) spent any less than $50,000. I also cannot see ANY way Kevin can afford to cover this out of his own pocket. SOMEONE is going to get screwed. Sorry. I really am. This is disgusting. But it's reality. EVERYONE who is sickened by this needs to realize the true depth of the situation. There will not be a refund for everyone. There is no quick resolution. EVERYONE should be disgusted with Skit-B. Not just Kevin ... but everyone ever involved. Each owes an explanation. Back Alley!!! Speak. Spooky, speak!!! Everyone! What did you know and when. What money did you take from Skit-B??? Speak up NOW! This is your chance.

Speak up complacent suppliers!!!

I'll be the first to claim more "BS"!!!!! They have spent an incredible amount of money. When EVERY single person gets their money back, great!! I will applaud Kevin first. BUT BS. I see no way everyone gets their money back. Kevin LIED. From DAY ONE, he LIED. HE NEVER HAD A LICENSE. He gambled on your backs from day one. He never had a realistic plan to produce the game at the price advertised. He is despicable on so many levels. The damage done to the hobby we all lover is immeasurable. Sickening. What an a$$ to never admit to the lies and sickening BS he sold to everyone. A$$.

BS. This is criminal. It's LIES. It's deception. It's sickening. For years on end. Disgusting. This was not an "attempt'. This was a con. I do not understand how anyone could look at kevin and see anything else, ever again.

"Swift" huh? So everyone should have their money back this week apparently. If or when anyone gets any type of refund, please post it here. Good luck.

And Kevin's last part "To the many"? Really? There are many people here still supporting him?

Another person upset that Kevin got caught? Seriously? Would you rather Fox found out 25 games into production and then halted everything? How much larger of a mess would it be then?

The fact is, forget the license issues. Kevin had no way to build these games. Period. He admitted as much. This thing was a mess before the lies came to light.

Nobody knows. But Kevin admitted he didn't have the resources to build the games and the presumption (I guess) is that he was going to reach out to other manufacturers to see what they would charge to build them. Then, chances are, he would come back to pre-order folks and tell them it really is going to cost more and if they wanted out he would understand. Just all speculation at this point though and now it's a moot point due to the license issue coming to light first.

Excellent, now I know who to contact for my own project!

The OP should add a poll here. Of the folks who have money tied up in this how many are interested in pursuing legal action if 100% of their money is not refunded?

OR, a poll for what percentage of funds people think will be refunded of what is left? 50-60%? 60%-70%?

Because I'm just waiting for the first "refund" to gauge just how truly bad this is.

That may very well be true but I still do not believe there is any way that 100% of the people with money in this will get a 100% refund. No way. So then what happens? What percentage do you think folks will get? Will there be legal action? Nothing?

Plenty of us pinheads live in Michigan. But showing up at his front door (or suggesting anyone should) is not a good idea. He does have a wife and young kids. Showing up in a threatening manner is not an answer. Allow Kevin to refund what he can and then consider using the legal avenues available to recoup the rest of your money (IF you have money involved in this.)

This has hurt everyone who loves and supports pinball. It's a sad chapter in the rebirth of pinball. But let's not get carried away here. He is human. Maybe he made some terrible decisions but I'm confident he is suffering right now from the extreme stress and reality of his decisions.

Although, I really wish he had the guts to just admit that he knew what he was doing was deceptive and illegal. To pretend he was just confused or there was a miscommunication on the limits of the "license" (that never existed) is very insulting to everyone. That part is as infuriating as how the project itself has been managed.

I think clearly the Wordpress posting was done by a single individual of the "anonymous group". I doubt the whole group collaborated on that. Regardless of how unnecessary it is or was, I guess if I had been duped for a few years with Kevin holding my money and lying, I would be angry too. It is clearly someone venting their own frustration and wanting Kevin to get what he deserves. I guess I can't blame them for that.

So, obviously nobody has gotten a direct response from Kevin in the last 3 days, correct? Nobody has heard another word from him?

Anyone hear anything new about when we can expect PBN to do a follow-up article with Kevin's response? I hope PBN is making Kevin answer the difficult questions as far as how much money is left and how is it possible for you to promise "full refunds" when clearly a significant amount of money has been spent to date.

Did I miss something? What "federal case"? I have never heard anyone claim Kevin is being prosecuted or even sued by Fox (or anyone else). Only that they simply put enough pressure on him to make him realize he cannot go forward. That's all I've read.

Can you post the AG email that stated that please? I'm curious to read it. And did they start the process for criminal prosecution or to go after monetary penalties?

I'm still very curious if there even is an official corporation set up for Skit-B. If so, who are listed as the owners? Who would be criminally liable here if there isn't? Just Kevin? What about Aaron Klumpp?

It's a bit ironic that at the bottom of Skit-B's website Kevin claims a copyright "© 2015 Skit-B Pinball Customs". Riiiiiiiight.

Is it illegal to claim a copyright when you don't have one or even filed for one?

Huh? So you can have a copyright without ever even filing for one?

Ahh, thanks. I guess Skit-B won't ever have to worry about being infringed upon now.

Dear Kevin, why do you keep using the word "swiftly" (such as "refunds will be swiftly") in your communications??

anigo.jpg

I'm crossing my fingers that Pinball News puts out an update story today with Kevin's official response to all outstanding concerns. Seems like 4 days should have been enough time to write up his responses to these questions:

-How much money was spent?
-Do you have an official accounting of where every penny was spent?
-What percentage of money collected is remaining?
-Are the funds in your personal bank account(s), PayPal, or both?
-Are there any hurdles to refunding the money that is left? (i.e. PayPal freezing funds, CC co's chargebacks, etc.)
-Did you ever actually form a legal business entity and if so, where was it registered?
-Will you now admit there was never a license? If not, please tell folks the name of even one person at Fox you were working with to approve artwork as you suggested numerous times.
-What will become of all the parts that have been purchased to build the "10 games" you noted?

If that is the case then Kevin should have told PBN this by now and it should have been communicated to pre-orders. There should be daily updates IMO. If no legal action against has begun then he should have initiated refunds "swiftly" as promised.

I'm not saying you're wrong but this hobby seems to still be growing at a remarkable pace (it's not so little any longer). I think the audience for pinball news is large enough to support two news outlets.

But wouldn't that same attorney say "Hmmm, well nobody has filed an actual lawsuit against you at this point so you probably should refund the money as fast as possible because that IS WHAT YOU PROMISED YOUR CUSTOMERS." Otherwise, he's just opening himself up to a couple hundred civil lawsuits, no?

P.S - I'm not so sure Kevin is smart to enough to have an attorney yet. If he does, I'm sure the retainer came out of pre-order money.

Umm, YES. He needs to answer all of these questions:

-How much money was spent?
-Do you have an official accounting of where every penny was spent?
-What percentage of money collected is remaining?
-Are the funds in your personal bank account(s), PayPal, or both?
-Are there any hurdles to refunding the money that is left? (i.e. PayPal freezing funds, CC co's chargebacks, etc.)
-Did you ever actually form a legal business entity and if so, where was it registered?
-Will you now admit there was never a license? If not, please tell folks the name of even one person at Fox you were working with to approve artwork as you suggested numerous times.
-What will become of all the parts that have been purchased to build the "10 games" you noted?

Because I think a lot of people are still struggling with how much of this was blatant fraud and how much was his ignorance and arrogance? If he can't account for every penny being spent directly on pinball (i.e., not say, a new house or photography equipment for his wife) then I think he saves a little face. I think he owes that to the whole pinball community (especially if he ever wants to show his face again at any pinball show.)
But yes, I do agree the MOST important thing is to give back every last penny he possibly can to every person on pre-order.

Do. Not. Believe. It. Perhaps she meant there appears to be enough to cover YOUR deposit Whysnow. Id like to think it's true but I just can't see where Kevin got all the money to cover everything spent to date.

You should ask him his thoughts on whether criminal charges would be sought in a matter Like this.

It's not that nobody believes you. I think it's more a question of whether she understood your question. Perhaps she was only suggesting there is enough to cover all of YOUR transactions. Because, do you think she could really calculate how much was ever deposited (especially considering there have been numerous refunds already and new people in line making deposits).

No, I do not. I do have 3 friends in though. I was so close to pulling the trigger several times. A bit scary now as my wife would be livid and I wouldn't see another new pin for a long time.

I violated a rule with this?? huh? I feel like a child being preached to on what constitutes good manners. Seemed like a reasonable (and relevant) question to me to a person who is very experienced in licensing for pinball.

Why would he be offended? He is one of the nicest and most approachable anbassadors of pinball. He has a lot of knowledge and experience in this area.

Regardless, "rule violation"?

Yes, many know exactly where he lives including me. I'll just say he's in Michigan but I can't think of any good reason for wanting to know his specific address. Use the legal avenues available to you for any resolution if you have money involved.

As noted many times in this thread the information is easily found online. Public information. Look who registered the domain name if you need an address for legitimate reasons. But to post it on a public forum that is very heated with a lot of emotion flowing would not be a good idea. Giving it to the "mob" might only push someone to do something that the majority of folks here would find more disturbing than the reason this thread was started to begin with.

Is there nobody here who knows the gentlemen from Pinball News (Martin?) Can anyone provide an update from him on when the Pinball News follow-up article is expected? Or did they decide against providing any further information? An awful lot of people still left in the dark right now.

I'm completely confused as to why there is no new information since 9 days ago. Pinball News puts out an article scaring the hell out of pre-order folks and leaving a LOT of unanswered questions (and promising a follow-up in "a few days", no?) The anonymous group also has gone silent which seems to suggest they aren't concerned with keeping folks updated on the latest from what they know (can't they even use their contact at Fox to get an update on legal action if any?). Kevin promises a "swift" refund process as well as quick responses to email questions (in the "order they were received", lol.) But now Kevin apparently cares more about his own butt than he does about the folks who supported him for years. Way to man up Kevin.

I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating this must be for folks with money involved.

I have never seen any evidence of actual litigation being initiated. None. Even if this is in the "legal phase" there is no reason Pinball News cannot state as much (or the AG for that matter.) Assuming Kevin has stopped responding to all inquiries (again, disgusting if he is only looking out for his own butt now) there were still a lot of unanswered questions that needed to be followed up on. Assuming Kevin has a lawyer who is he and can folks not ask him for official responses in regards to the issuing of refunds or other general questions?

Agreed. Although, I'm pretty confident nobody has gotten an official "refund" from Kevin. I've only read of 2 reimbursements (one issued via PayPal and one issued via credit card company Amex.)

Ahh, okay. Just out of curiosity, in these situations, I assume the credit card company is issuing the refund from their own pockets? Does that mean they'll go after Kevin (or PayPal?) in order to get reimbursed themselves?