I got the first email a couple weeks ago or something, no time to look up the date, about to take my kids to school. Forget a lawsuit, I wasn't worried about that. But I definitely wasn't comfortable just pasting some wholesale anonymous claim into the thread. I thought it was legit, but I didn't actually know, and I'd feel like a giant asshole if I panicked everyone into a run on the bank and it turns out to have been a prank or someone was just misinformed.

Kevin is stalling! Plain and simple. If he could send out emails last night he could of sent refunds last night. Why do people still believe what he says? He wouldnt know the truth if bit him in the Arse.

I understand that people are going to be emotional and upset. They have money invested in this project that they would have no reason to think that it wouldn't happen. Proto was right there, everything seemed to be going smooth.

But there really isn't any basis at this point to say your money is gone. If Kevin was truly legit the whole time, i'm sure the funds are there. Well most of the funds as i'm sure some were actually used for production. If that's the case, least you know his intentions were NOT to screw people over. Which should make you feel a little better about being lied to about the license thing. He has stated he is not a business man. Could be just chalked up to very poor business decisions. It's going to be a touchy subject regardless because of the money involved, the desire for the game and other factors. This mr.X kinda fawked it up for everyone so to speak, (if the games were in the works to come out). If they were not even close or having an intention of being released, then it's a full out scam and Kevin was being a dick.

I have no skin in the game and feel awful for everyone who bought into this fiasco. I pray refunds or at least partial refunds go out today to help stop the bleeding. Good luck guys!

I am not convinced it would have mattered. Nobody wants to see anybody lose money but if you posted it here it probably would have triggered more subjective arguing instead of objective decision making or discussion. For example I offer the days after all the web site information regarding Predator vanished. Now one would think a decent discussion could take place when that happened. Did it? Back read and we all know it did not. That had to be the biggest red flag in the world yet it could not be discussed in a civil manner. People were insulted, called trolls...called jealous they were on on the list or did not have the money to buy one. It was awful. Day after day the sayers said, "Kevin is just doing the web site over. Kevin needs to focus his time on the actual machine and not the web site or youtube. Kevin sold all 250 so why should he need to advertise it on his web site" Yep, those were the good ole days I hope we all can learn a valuable lesson on how to co-exist in a forum looking forward. No matter what side your viewpoint is on!!!!!

Kevin even had dear ol mom pushing Predator at Expo a few years back. Does this make her an accomplice?

I agree. These emails have been floating around a while, it was only Pinball News' definitive report, with opportunity for Kevin to respond to the allegations that tipped everything over. That report took time. Anything that might have come before it would have just added to the noise.

The "Predator doesn't have a license" has been a debate for a LOOOONG time. It was always "Kevin said everything is cool", and he was even saying that in recent days.

So I agree, posting of these emails weeks ago would have done nothing, they would have been shot down as more rumor and noise.

it does if she made the boys chocolate chip cookies without a proper re-lease\license from neestle

I'm not sure how it matters who the anonymous group members are. They aren't guilty of anything. Attempting to crucify their character on Pinside won't accomplish anything at all. Really, even their motives don't matter.

The only thing that matters is that this whole project was a lie from the very beginning. Some of the comments suggesting it was only going to hurt a big corporation in a small way are short sighted. Kevin blatantly deceived the pre-buyers and allowed them to take the financial risk for his illegal gamble. He seemed to have no problem with that. It's not like the license was the only lie either, as it seems like everything from the simple existence of any actual company to the facilities and resources being pumped into production was a fabrication as well.

Sorry, the whole ordeal is just horribly unfair to everyone in the pinball hobby and especially to those directly involved. This was a big $ item that was pre-paid on faith that it would be built. This project should not be pushed forward any further or in any way and Kevin should never work, profit, benefit (or even really participate) in pinball ever again.

If I remember right she was bragging about the new couches they had bought for the basement. I wish I was joking.

Unsure about others, but to the very least the March 10 email to Aurich (which I accessed today) would have been an eye-opening to me. It is factual and precise.

I should have PM's Aurich (or others) to get a copy. My mistake. I understand why he decided not to post it here. I also understand why Martin Ayub did not publish it until having enough confirmation.

I just did this, they did open a dispute but apparently the system automatically closed it because it was past the 180 days. They did say they will send a "courtesy email" that I requested to be refunded, and if Kevin responds, they will let me know - but I am not very confident anything will be done.

The rep also told me to contact local authorities to report the issue, as well as, gave me the ic3.gov to report the online fraud.

At this point, I am giving Kevin until Friday to prove he is actually taking the refunds seriously. If not, I will submit everything I can to make sure he (and anyone else involved) is punished to the full extent.

If anyone has other suggestions for what I can do, please PM me.

Once this exploded I said some of you guys would play the "I told you so" or "this is why I am smart and stayed out of this pre-order" game. Lost a lot of respect for some of you guys with no stock in this matter. How dare you try teaching people how to handle losing their money. If you're not in this then just say "good luck" and move on. No need to have a big back and forth with people fighting to get their money back.

For those of you posting on how to contact Paypal and lawyers, thank you. We should be helping and not playing blame game.

Give it a rest dude! JPOP has his own issues (slow & stubborn) but they are way different than Skit-B issues (lies and fraud)

Absolutely correct, the "Predator seemed like a scam --- but eventually happily resolved!" thread from 4 months ago questions the license on page 1, and the poster is confronted with Kevin's lies as proof of a license.

For what it's worth I sent a copy to anyone who PM'd me, would have been happy to share with you too.

Can I still put down a deposit to get the game?

Could we start referring to all this as "Predatorgate" please? It'll be easier to type. I'll take credit for coining the term. Thanks, that is all.

Im sure someone will sell you there spot

Can we start a new thread that is strictly posts on what is being done and/or what can be done to try and recoup the funds for all of us handcuffed to the situation? As much as I know people want to argue about other stuff in here it's all good, but can we get a centralized thread going where the pre-owners can group up to take this head-on as a whole vs each individual going alone?

Change the "Some" to "Sad".

Same here. Basically said they'd make notes to his account. I can try my bank or legal action. That's about it.

"Stupid" might be more appropriate it would seem.

I'll sell you my spot.

I just rang Paypal here in the UK. They gave me the brush off.

Are you new to this conversation?

I've been critical of this SkitB situation for the last 4 months... no "anonymous emails" needed to find my position on all this!

Look back to the first few pages of this 90+ page thread. You will see multiple examples questioning the license. And, just as frequently you will find them been shouted down with posts like this one:

So lets not pretend this is *NEWS* to anyone in this thread. It's been theorized for months and months, its just finally now where Kevin has been dragged to admitting the truth.

You and Whysnow and Neo can continue to miss the point, that's your prerogative; but the real story is simply:
Kevin lied to everyone from day 1.
He took money under false pretenses.
He owes that money back.

Any other issues are NOISE.

This guy tweeted the president of Paypal and got an escalation. What do you have to lose?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/1rkkd7/paypal_just_froze_over_70000_in_my_account_say/

Thanks.
Anyway, what would I have earned in the process? 13 days?
Last time I sent $ was May 2014... well past Paypal 180-day limit. May check with the CC (Amex) linked to my PP account.

It looks like the first person I spoke to at PayPal gave me a false sense of hope. After calling PayPal back again & speaking to a different Claims rep, they told me that we would need to go through police, small claims court, or another source outside of PayPal. They did tell me that Skit-B's PayPal account was shut down some time ago due to the amount of complaints stemming from it. That partly explains why we haven't been able to get refunds over the last few months.

Really, I just asked what was going on. I hate to see another attempt at a cool pin go bad or be set way back. First it was TBL then J Pop and now Predator.

I agree with this 100%.

To quote the anonymous... they said that they kept "key members of the hobby and selected Pinsiders (mainly trusted & respected Immortals)" in the loop.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Seriously? "Immortals"????

That really rubs me the wrong way.

Just wreaks of lame.

So it's okay to let the "Immortals" in on the fact that plane is going to crash...but ole' Joe who worked just as hard for the money that's about to be compromised? Leave him in the dark.

This is not some game...we're talking about money which equates to a lot in our crazy societies.

While an interesting read, that whole wordpress document should have been circulated among every known pre-order collector known long ago. Long, long ago. Seems a little self-serving to pop-it-out in public right before Pinball News publishes. What's the purpose? Wouldn't the Pinball News article be enough?

If you were quiet up until now...I say just stay quiet and let the pro write about it.

Something just smells there. The "anonymous" owed more to the folks with skin in the game.

I just wanted to say that I've been following this very closely for a long time, and I'm really sorry it turned out this way for all involved. I hope you get your money back, or at least a portion of it. I went back last night and re-read a good portion of the "Few Words From Skit-B" thread, and in light of what has happened and come it light, it's some of the most depressing shit that has ever graced the pages of this fine website.

This is a dark, dark place for pinball to be in, and I hope that Kevin understands that he directly put us there. For someone who loved pinball so much, he certainly had a strange way of showing it, and I hope that he understands that what he did had the wrong intentions from the start.

Nah it's pretty similar. It's come to light that Jpop hasn't paid vendors and had burned a ton of bridges - he has never shown a working proto (at least Shit-Mask had that)...and he's never shown he has the capability to manufacture. As far as I'm concerned, they're both misfit dreamers who took money with no logical endgame.

Hmmm. 250 small claims court cases. Bam.

Jeez...

I'm surprised they would reveal that info, but if true, that puts a whole new spin on this debacle. If Kevin closed the PP account, then Paypal isn't going to help refund anyone's money, as it would come out of Paypal, as they have no account of Kevin's to freeze or pull funds from. It also means Paypal is going to fight extra hard against any CC chargebacks, which may include them freezing or access YOUR accounts if your CC company is successful in charging them back.

Here's hoping Kevin is writing checks as we speak.

Look to the left, underneath yours or my username - it's a pinside designation based on karma.

Ok, now I have to jump in. This Mr X group were seriously f'ing with Hilton based on the emails he was getting and what they were saying to him. There was a strong gloating element in the content which impeded "credibility" of the authors. These "hero's" were acting like asshats to Hilton. Disagree with Hilton's passionate and blind support of Kevin - that's fine, I did to. But Mr X were trying to create a media event and helped FOX first - then brought it to the community. Think long and hard about it.

(And you TX people who keep thumbs downing Hilton when he hits enter on any post - let's keep tabs. Hmm Mr X affiliation? You guys are fixated on Hilton. It's as sick as his blind trust in Kevin. Sorry H.)

The immortals part is just about the fun little Pinside titles you have by your name. Addict, guru, immortal, legend, whatever. They were just trying to say they contacted people with high karma counts, who've been around a while or who are pretty active in the community.

I think it's easy to point fingers now, but they were caught in the middle of a situation that was pretty volatile, with a lawyer requesting that they stay quiet about it while negotiations occurred. I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation.

The reality is that even if they'd come forward right away it was too late to do PayPal refunds, the window had passed. And by staying quiet there was a chance the project could be saved. Tough spot, I can't judge their thinking.

My guess:

Anonymous Group found out the truth
Told their buddies
Worked with Pinball News to create Story
Then decided to tell those within their clique of friends
Said F You to the rest of the pinball hobby until it served their interests

The whole idea of obstruction of justice is absurd to think. They could have posted this day one because no matter what it doesn't change the original problem of no license. This group of self righteous a**holes took it upon themselves to withhold this info for almost 6 months knowing it would screw a lot of pre-order holders out of their money. Awhile letting their buddies know to cut ties, this is why they want to stay anonymous because at the end of the day they f{€ked a lot of people and don't want to be known for it. I wouldn't mark them as the ones who destroyed predator, I mark them as the ones who f}£ked the hobbyist who supported predator.

This is a sad day for pinside as several moderators are directly involved and likely will aid in a coverup for the anonymous group.

That statement should reveal exactly who the anonymous emailer was. It sure did to me but I think he did the right thing anyway.

If anyone is on a business trip to Midland Michigan, they should stop by the SkitB factory and ask for a tour?

I have a pretty good idea who actually wrote the emails, but what good does it do us now?

Looks like I picked a bad week to quit sniffing glue.

According to Paypal's rules, Kevin has 10 days to respond to my claim; that would mean April 1st... good luck to all.

Agreed. The new thread would need to be started by a Moderator as they are automatically shutting down any other Predator-related threads that are created.

Moderators, anything you can do?

20th Century Fox, a giant US corporation that has several divisions, subsidiaries, investments, products.... ummm.. you better believe I'll shut my mouth if they tell me to. God knows what they'd mold me into if I went against their word. A company that powerful can do what they want, when they want. Better not to poke the bear. If I was Mr.X, I would have kept quiet also.

You are full of shit on this one Dave. Seriously. You talk about these people doing it for their own self interest. BS! If they wanted to do it for self serving self promoting reasons why did they stay anonymous? You are way off base here.

Blaming someone for pulling the fire alarm when there's a raging fire makes zero sense.

I recommend you read the email post again. Maybe you'll get it this time.

You gotta call for the special cases...