(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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-2
#4601 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Haha I wish I could have seen these last night when I was in investigative mode. All we got was the one from Aurich. Give me tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I can figure out who at least wrote them.

I know easy enough....quote from "To catch a Predator" word press expose:

"The relatively recent “leaking” to select people was a matter of seeding the eventual Pinball News story that was coming out, to certain “pillars” in the community. This included highly respected & rational Pinsiders, some Pinside moderators, some of the lawyers on Pinside, several producers directly involved with the Skit-B project, and members of the “press” (podcasters, etc). This was meant to gently “prep” strong voices in the hobby for the eventual hellstorm that was coming – so they could be armed with the facts, and mentally prepared to be rational and balanced, later in a sea of speculation and flailing.
***
***
What a f-ing joke, they use these guys as stooges so when the shit hits the fan they'll have them in their corner...and they had the balls to post the "Stockholm Syndrome" meme to bash us. LMAO

PS: Also if there is a mod involved well I think he should be stripped of his status.

#4602 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Still haven't seen confirmation on this:
Is Skit-B a business? LLC? Non-profit? ...?
Or is this all going to come down to Kevin being the responsible entity on a personal level?

Personal opinion: he has no business, just a personal paypal account and a website. Even if he had a business he's still liable for all of this, this is going to be a criminal situation, not just a civil issue.

#4603 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Brother, c'mon. Clearly not you in any way (I don't even know you), I'm just pointing out that reason and rationale are likely not involved in either of us getting out money back out of Kevin's guilt, read that link and apply it to the person that knowingly fucked us out of our money. He will likely have to be forced by an outside influence to do the right thing.
I hope to hell I am wrong, but that is likely what we are dealing with here.

I know I forgot to put the laughing face at the end although after reading that I'm a good candidate.

#4604 4 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

Personal opinion: he has no business, just a personal paypal account and a website. Even if he had a business he's still liable for all of this, this is going to be a criminal situation, not just a civil issue.

I agree.....just a con artist.

#4605 4 years ago

Is there any benefit to grouping up for a lawsuit to get money back should Kevin Kulek disappear from the internet? If so, and any people need a +1 to the group please let me know.

15
#4606 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Playboy ,
Ideally 200 people would have games . sorry fox would have been screwed and that is wrong too. But I my eyes better than this . Just an ass hats opinion .
But I always side with the outcome that equals games in someone hands.

I get you man, and that's how I was feeling a few months ago when a lot of the guys I'm conversing with right now wouldn't let it go. Seems like a lot more here care for the drama then for pinball which is why I completely avoid pinside except for the Pred threads. I admit, I was thinking "just shut the fuck up so I can just get my game I've been waiting 2.5 years for and not get screwed." It's even worse that our whistleblowers made sure their money was safe first.

I don't know man, such mixed emotions. If dudes would have left it alone, we might have got our games, we might not have. It's like that guy that calls the cops for weed. Were we really hurting anybody? But in the end, it's Kevin that deceived us. It's Kevin that took our 3 or 5 grand and gambled on it. Right now, I don't care why he called out, it's the fact that it was possible to get called out to begin with. Hell, I've "known" Kevin longer than my current coworkers. I trusted this guy. Now I'm basically in a powerless situation and am just along for the ride. It's easy to blame the guys that put us here, and believe me I did and kind of still do, but like I said, they couldn't have put us here if it wasn't possible to begin with. And that responsibility lies with Kevin.

Just my opinion.

-11
#4607 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I agree.....just a con artist.

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

#4608 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist.

"Shirley, you can't be serious." Please get Kevin in here to explain what his true intentions were when he requested full payment. Because everything points to that being completely untrue.

-1
#4609 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

PS: Also if there is a mod involved well I think he should be stripped of his status.

Well then there goes the entire staff because every staff member here saw the emails and was in on them pretty much from day 1. Whysnow reported them to them as soon as he got them, as did Aurich, and myself, and many others. Who knows how many.

Every mod here has seen the emails more or less in real-time as they were sent out. That does not mean that any of them "were involved" but I am not sure what you mean by "involved". Knowing whats going on publicly and privately is a part of the daily grind for this volunteer staff of moderators we have here. They do they best they can.

#4610 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

Sure if you ignore all the facts and actual happenings over the past four years that makes sense.

#4611 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

Quoted from Nibbles:

Shirley, you can't be serious.

He is serious, Kevin NEVER had a license to be a con artist.

11
#4612 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I did not believe these emails from labnip or whomever it was. the emails contained all sorts of things that were proven false, incorrect, and also contained all sorts of personal attacks. Only portions of these emails appear to be factual.

all sorts of things proven false??

You seem to ignore that certainly the BIGGEST issue was around the license, and the emails had that issue exactly right.

It amazes me that folks can still "blame the messenger" here?

The ONLY thing that would have come from these guys NOT whistleblowing on this would have been SOME of the machines making it into the market before FOX finally found out.... And that would really have been a shitstorm.

Btw, even THAT might have been stretch. There's little evidence that Kevin has/had anywhere NEAR the capability to actually build these machines.

I REALLY thought you would stay out of the conversation after being so vocal (and wrong, nearly at every turn) about this.... I guessed wrong.

#4613 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I really don't think he was out to fraud people.

How about this, tell him to respond to the emails of everyone that was asking for a refund from the end of 2014 to two weeks ago, hell, even today.

#4614 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

I stated that before. I believe in the beginning, he wasn't out to defraud people. However, greed did take over...and blatantly lying about licensing (that you do not own) is conning people. Call it what you want....but I will keep "finger pointing" in that direction

-2
#4615 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

It amazes me that folks can still "blame the messenger" here?

You mean you and your buddies?

-7
#4616 4 years ago

I've talked with Kevin and his team many times over the years. I really think his intentions were good and he was just excited to make the game happen. I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar. I really think he could have, if it didnt' take so damn long to get the games done. If he would have pulled it off in the first year, I really think it would have happened. Never once out of all my conversations with him, did I ever get the impression he was out to get everyones money.

50
#4617 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people..

Huh?

The minute he started LYING, he shifted from "naive" to con artist.
The minute he took money under false pretenses he became a thief.

Sorry if that offends some people tender sensibilities, but why beat around the bush.

He was LYING for years. He made others lie for him as well.

He's not a "nice guy" or a "passionate pinhead" or a "naive idealist" that just got in over his head.

Since I'm already off whysnows XMAS card list, let's call kevin what he is: He is a f*^%*ing cheat, swindler, and scumbag.

18
#4618 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I've talked with Kevin and his team many times over the years. I really think his intentions were good and he was just excited to make the game happen. I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar. I really think he could have, if it didnt' take so damn long to get the games done. If he would have pulled it off in the first year, I really think it would have happened. Never once out of all my conversations with him, did I ever get the impression he was out to get everyones money.

Can you call him again and ask him how much money is left please, he won't answer my calls

-1
#4619 4 years ago

didn't say he did things proper. I just think his eyes glazed over with the dreams of making his dream theme over sensibility and business knowledge.

If the money is gone, then I think the game driven Kevin that started this project, ended up going astray from his initial intentions. I really hope the money isn't gone. WOuld be a shame for the ones that believed in him, lost their ass. If everyone gets their money back, then I think people would be more accepting that his initial intentions were genuine.

#4620 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I've talked with Kevin and his team many times over the years. I really think his intentions were good and he was just excited to make the game happen. I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar. I really think he could have, if it didnt' take so damn long to get the games done. If he would have pulled it off in the first year, I really think it would have happened. Never once out of all my conversations with him, did I ever get the impression he was out to get everyones money.

Of course he was trying to build them! If he was conning us, he would have never given us his real name! The point is that before he started accepting out money, he should have had a license first! The guy ate the pinside fame up. Why did he ever have to "sneak it under the radar?" We were going to give him a million fucking dollars!

21
#4621 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

It's like that guy that calls the cops for weed.

That guy is a dick, for the record.

#4622 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

didn't say he did things proper. I just think his eyes glazed over with the dreams of making his dream theme over sensibility and business knowledge.

I think he is *allegedly* a sociopath that thought he could lie his way into an alternate reality. Will that change things for me now, nope. But it explains quite a bit.

#4623 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That guy is a dick, for the record.

I thought it was a great analogy for the anger against the anonymous.

#4624 4 years ago

If the guy "making" the games is going to potentially be involved in litigation with the licensor, the absolute last thing he is going to do is create any kind of paper-trail by mentioning how much money he took or how he'll handle refunds on a forum full of angry people (or in any public sense). It would be a literal gold mine for Fox to pilfer; and legally suicidal for him.

I guess the worst part is, he's probably going to have to use YOUR money for his defense. Scumbag move.

#4625 4 years ago

serious question,

how many prototypes currently exist?
and, what is going to happen to them?
are they to be destroyed?

#4626 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That guy is a dick, for the record.

I don't smoke weed, but fawk that guy.

16
#4627 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

You mean you and your buddies?

Nice try.

While certainly a critic of Kevin and suspicious of the bullshit "updating the website" sorry from day #1, I have no connection to the "anonymous gang." Hell, if I had PROOF of what this scumbag had done 5-6 months ago I would have been screaming it from the rooftops.

Frankly, I had given Kevin a bit more credit than being the total deadbeat he turned out to be. I was sure he HAD a license that either expired or was too limited and he purged the website when it expired and/or realized it was insufficient to build the pin.

I never imagined he would have been to brazenly criminal as to just make the whole thing up and bilk pinheads for $1m.

#4628 4 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

serious question,
how many prototypes currently exist?
and, what is going to happen to them?
are they to be destroyed?

Or more importantly, what happened to the Total Recall prototype?

(you might ask what relevance this has to this discussion, and the answer would be nothing. I just wanted to know because i've been looking for it for about 10 years)

#4629 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

And i'm sure there are plenty of people that were on the fringe to get something, they thought was cool, and now it's in going to shit, because someone decided to snoop around and shut down the operation.
Was it shady to take money for a product that wasn't ready to go out the door without licensing after saying they did? Sure. If the 250 were already made before you even knew and were selling them out the door, would the 250 that bought one give a shit? probably not.

If SkitB had managed to ship the pins, and then Fox found out after the fact, would the FBI have rounded up all the machines from player's basements and commissioned Todd Tuckey to destroy them by throwing them off a rooftop?

predator.jpg
#4630 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

...
Frankly, I had given Kevin a bit more credit than being the total deadbeat he turned out to be. I was sure he HAD a license that either expired or was too limited and he purged the website when it expired and/or realized it was insufficient to build the pin.
I never imagined he would have been to brazenly criminal as to just make the whole thing up and bilk pinheads for $1m.

yup. same here...
not in my wildest imagination could i fathom he had zero/no license at all.

#4631 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I've talked with Kevin and his team many times over the years. I really think his intentions were good and he was just excited to make the game happen. I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar. I really think he could have, if it didnt' take so damn long to get the games done. If he would have pulled it off in the first year, I really think it would have happened. Never once out of all my conversations with him, did I ever get the impression he was out to get everyones money.

I'm sure you guys can still chat once he is sentenced.

#4632 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Or more importantly, what happened to the Total Recall prototype?
(you might ask what relevance this has to this discussion, and the answer would be nothing. I just wanted to know because i've been looking for it for about 10 years)

you know, I have been wondering about that also. I would love to play it.
it was an interesting concept.

24
#4633 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I really think his intentions were good.

I really think he thought he could sneak it in under the radar.

Lolwut?

Did you REALLY just write those two sentences in the same paragraph?

He had good intentions & he thought he could just illegally make the machines and not get caught. I'm not sure we have the same understanding of what "good intentions" means.....

#4634 4 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

If SkitB had managed to ship the pins, and then Fox found out after the fact, would the FBI have rounded up all the machines from player's basements and commissioned Todd Tuckey to destroy them by throwing them off a rooftop?

jellopuddingpop.gif

#4635 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm wondering about JPop's situation also with Fast.

Talking but no commitment at this point, as far as I know. (Only based on my general knowledge.) I *do* know that John does have a capable and working/tested boardset (mb, i/o, driver board).

#4636 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I'm sure you guys can still chat once he is sentenced.

Can you get conjugal visits in white collar prison?

NOT that's theres anything wrong with that, but....

-2
#4637 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Nice try.
While certainly a critic of Kevin and suspicious of the bullshit "updating the website" sorry from day #1, I have no connection to the "anonymous gang." Hell, if I had PROOF of what this scumbag had done 5-6 months ago I would have been screaming it from the rooftops.
Frankly, I had given Kevin a bit more credit than being the total deadbeat he turned out to be. I was sure he HAD a license that either expired or was too limited and he purged the website when it expired and/or realized it was insufficient to build the pin.
I never imagined he would have been to brazenly criminal as to just make the whole thing up and bilk pinheads for $1m.

So you had no proof but you had a hunch all this time?

Quote from Aurich's emails:

So who are "we" ?? We are going to remain nameless for now. (This Gmail is an alias, BTW) There will be too much of a temptation by some to forever label us "the guys who killed Skit-B" and it's not a tagline we want to own. Kevin did this to himself. Besides, we're all on PinSide and going back, it probably won't be hard to decipher who we were (although each of us will never admit it).

#4638 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

yup. same here...
not in my wildest imagination could i fathom he had zero/no license at all.

In all fairness...why would we? I played Predator last year at TPF....it seemed completed and ready to ship. Everything seemed so legit.... I never even thought to question the authenticity of a license.

#4639 4 years ago
Quoted from rlslick:

Calling my credit card company tomorrow. Anyone know if paid by PayPal, which source is best to contact (PayPal, CC company or both)? I made my final payment in full back in June 2014. Not sure if I'm going to be shit out of luck, but definitely worth a try... Seems like there's enough proof where this went wrong with this 90 page thread.
I'm so frustrated for being had, I'm beside myself!

I'd call your credit card company first and quickly. They'll ask you the estimated delivery date on the machine I'd tell them 12/31/14. Most Credit Card companies will do a chargeback within 48 hours and investigate even if Skit-B tries to disput it there is enough info out there to prove he can't deliver the promised product. The Credit Card company will logically side with its customers.

#4640 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

didn't say he did things proper. I just think his eyes glazed over with the dreams of making his dream theme over sensibility and business knowledge.
If the money is gone, then I think the game driven Kevin that started this project, ended up going astray from his initial intentions. I really hope the money isn't gone. WOuld be a shame for the ones that believed in him, lost their ass. If everyone gets their money back, then I think people would be more accepting that his initial intentions were genuine.

He's probably going to jail - that's the reality of it all.....

#4642 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Can you get conjugal visits in white collar prison?

NOT that's theres anything wrong with that, but....

haha! I hope his cellmate is Wesley Upchurch from Vonnie D. They can talk about fake weed and fake licenses all day.......

#4643 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

But you also need to think about how and the timing of pulling the fire alarm.
I like you analogy so I will stick with it.
the fire erupts, mr x gets his family out of the building, and then turns the gas pump back on the building to make sure everyone else is fully engulfed, THEN he pulls the alarm and just points to the guy that started the fire.

That is way over the top.

#4644 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I'd call your credit card company first and quickly. They'll ask you the estimated delivery date on the machine I'd tell them 12/31/14. Most Credit Card companies will do a chargeback within 48 hours and investigate even if Skit-B tries to disput it there is enough info out there to prove he can't deliver the promised product. The Credit Card company will logically side with its customers.

You've been busy posting this all day. Keep it up.

#4645 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

In all fairness...why would we? I played Predator last year at TPF....it seemed completed and ready to ship. Everything seemed so legit.... I never even thought to question the authenticity of a license.

yeah same here.
game looked cool, those front/center targets bugged me, but man what a great looking pin.
the audio, lighting, and animations were great. i actually didn't mind the artwork either.
the whole no license thing is just so far/extreme of a concept, that why would anyone even consider it, much less even think to ask about it.
i was hoping to see & play it again this year at TPF

...instead, i find myself wondering how we could have something like fund-raisers set up at each of the pin events over the next 12-18 months and see if some funds could be collected and distributed to the folks that don't get some/all of their money back. Texas Pin Fest is next weekend. That's probably too soon to organize/plan something, but would be nice if something happened. If there was like 10 events over the next year-and-a-half, and maybe someone could donate a pin or 2 to a special auction at each event. maybe each event could raise like $5k to $8k at the auction and then put those funds into a holding-pattern somewhere. Multiply that against like 10 events and folks could have $50k-80k to redistribute to the 200ish customers that may end up loosing money. Maybe bulk print some shirts and sell them, and donate profits to the fund as well? Maybe charge a door cover to one of the nearby pubs and put those proceeds into the fund. I dunno, probably a logistical nightmare... but, I just wish something good could come from the community to help out. But, at moment we don't know how much may not available for refund, so maybe fund raisers could fill the gap perfectly, or be a stretch ...just noodling...

#4646 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I'd call your credit card company first and quickly. They'll ask you the estimated delivery date on the machine I'd tell them 12/31/14. Most Credit Card companies will do a chargeback within 48 hours and investigate even if Skit-B tries to disput it there is enough info out there to prove he can't deliver the promised product. The Credit Card company will logically side with its customers.

I called my CC company immediately after reading the Pinballnews article. We'll see where the fraud department takes it from there.

14
#4647 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

So you had no proof but you had a hunch all this time?

Yep. Not rocket surgery though:

He removes EVERY reference to the game online and even refuses to use the name of the game in emails? I didn't need to know ANYTHING else to know there were license problems. I just never guessed how bad they really were.

So, you can assume all you want, but no, I'm not an anonymous team x'er. However, to be honest, I have almost ZERO problem with their actions. My only criticism is that they sat on the info too long. I personally wouldn't give a shit about waiting for a pinball news story....

Hell, I could hardly have done a WORSE job if I were trying to keep a low profile as a SkitB critic than I've done here over the last few months. also, those anonymous guys use far too few elipses and boob pics to be my style of writing....

#4648 4 years ago

Another 8-hour night and... 500+ posts... Knew it was time to read pinball news. Was of course expecting better. Still can't believe how dumb Kevin has been. No licence at all? Really? I was thinking of "no agreement on music or some images and actors" or something of that kind. But nothing at all???

Quoted from Asylum:

As this plays out over the next 24 to 48 hours, I will be contacting an attorney to discuss the best options for everyone to recover our money, including filling criminal charges. Once I have more information I will reach out to other pre-owners in an attempt to get as many of us together as possible to go after him criminally.

Count me in, if international buyers allowed...

Quoted from Sjsilver:

Yeah I picked that number because it was the start of the Fibonacci sequence,

That sentence put a smile on my face... which sadly did not last long. The "What if Mr X is whysnow" put another

Quoted from iceman44:

He's made the mistake of trying to help and its got me rethinking my decision to even try and help John, being a good guy can easily end up getting you F ed.

Definitely food for thoughts... may be for JPop you should consider forming a small group rather than rely on a single individual

Quoted from iceman44:

The best thing that could happen is Kevin distribute whatever's left pro rata IMMEDIATELY!

Agreed.

Quoted from RobT:

He clearly implied that he had seen the actual Predator license. I

Definitively one of the reasons why I stayed on board so long.

#4649 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

here we go pointing fingers again. I don't think it's this at all. Not having business sense or not knowing what you're doing, doesn't automatically make you a con artist. I really don't think he was out to fraud people. If all the money is gone and nothing was made, then it could be a scam or really poor business decisions.

He intentionally deceived people to acquire money. That's not a poor business decision, it's fraud.

#4650 4 years ago

Regarding refunds, Kevin has to propose to buyers "I can refund % of your deposit right now, if you give up the legal route". He better get an attorney help him prepare this letter. I dont' need an admission of guilt, I just want to have an offer.

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