(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by Roostking
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

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86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18272 posts in this topic. You are on page 88 of 366.
19
#4351 4 years ago

Wow.

I wish I could say this was all surprising, but it just confirms the emails I was sent. I was hesitant to share them without knowing if they were true or not (I did PM them to anyone who asked for them), but I sure believe Martin is legit. Such a sad situation.

Not that it matters anymore, but here's the main relevant emails I got, if anyone is curious what they looked like as I was reading them:

http://pastebin.com/sHJwNRut

I haven't read the "Mr. X version" yet, but I'll take a look when I get a chance. Been building a wall in my girls' closet today instead of reading all the drama.

I'm the one who told Aaron he needed to post that he was severing ties with Skit-B. I know he meant well trying to help Kevin, but there's no helping that dude. He's a freaking liar, he lied to his customers, he lied to his close friends and partners, he needs to just accept the bed he made and do what he's good at, lie some more in it. F trying to help him, let him sort his own shit out.

So it's kinda my fault that Aaron posted when he did. Which admittedly made him look like a jerk who was bailing after the story went live. If I'd known Martin was going to jump the gun my advice would have been short and sweet: shut the F up and just leave it all alone!

Because really, this is about Kevin, FAST was just trying to work on his next game, and they got lied to like everyone else. Aaron is really only guilty of believing Kevin and using that to state that things were fine. Which might have been dumb, but it wasn't like he was in on some criminal conspiracy.

Here's what I do know now that there's zero reason to hold back: There are less than 200 people who paid up. I heard 180.

I've also got some insight into Kevin's BS talk about PayPal. I think they've locked his account. It happened to me when I first started selling Shadow translites. They see a spike in your account taking money in and they lock shit down and ask you for proof that you're shipping things. The reason being that PayPal is ultimately on the hook if you defraud people. I had to give them tracking numbers and really show that I wasn't a thief before they unlocked and let me withdraw funds.

So my suspicion, based on some facts, some guesses, and some experience, is that any money he took from PayPal is still sitting there, untouched. I don't think he could have spent it if he wanted to.

Wish I could confirm that for sure, but I feel like that's what's going on there.

I feel for everyone in on this, but it's not over yet, there's really a chance that the bulk of the money is still out there. So don't give up hope yet.

#4352 4 years ago

I think with the sad state of boutique companies over the past 6 months, we should probably all root for Spooky and JJP to succeed...or Stern will be able to lay claim to being the only real manufacturer of pins on the planet again. Competition is good for everybody.

#4353 4 years ago

Speechless reading revelations presented by anonymous group (sound of jaw hitting ground heard in background).

#4354 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I just did, got it? Is it clear to you yet? What are you going to do about it? What a F ing joke.

you seem very hostile about this topic.
are you going to be this hostile at TPF as well?
i'm actually concerned.

#4355 4 years ago

This is like the DP thing all over again...but worse.

#4356 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You think so smart ass? I appreciate your genius opinion on the matter

This type of stuff will not be tolerated. Quoting it since people like to edit and change their story after the get told they were bad. There is a fine line between discussion and attacks, this is an attack. Please play nice.

#4357 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I just can't get over the fact. He seriously thought once he had them built and shipped, this could never go back retroactively on them? Like someone from Fox wouldn't see one at a bar, see skit-b plastered on the side, done a quick google search that led him to Pinside, where some company sold Predator and is now making other games, and not sue the shit out of them!?
Geez

From reading the pinball news and blog post I have no doubt he had all intention of trying to build these things under the radar. It will be curious to see how courts would rule in the matter. Did he commit fraud or did everyone commit money to an idiot "business" man who ran his company into the ground. I think he full intended to build them, but the business practice of building a machine without a license was pretty idiotic. The only thing I'm sure of is the only people who will be seeing any money from Predator pinball is the lawyers.

#4358 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

you seem very hostile about this topic.
are you going to be this hostile at TPF as well?
i'm actually concerned.

Let it go or you will watch from the side like him.

23
#4359 4 years ago

My apologies to those anonymous working on this license. I hold none of them accountable for 'tipping' off fox, as they stopped this fiasco, yeah, fiasco, early. Kevin's reasoning and recklessness has put my families income in jeopardy regardless of his original intentions.

I will not pursue my refund if it can be disbursed to others in this situation I offer it to them. Pinsiders are great and this is my way of paying it forward.

Rick Burnham

16
#4360 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I think with the sad state of boutique companies over the past 6 months

This shit has been going on since 2005 when Wayno said he was building MM and collected 2500 from a 1000 people.

People forget the past in very short time.

#4361 4 years ago

I'm fully invested and looks like.I'm screwed.

I'll join whatever group, our do whatever I can to fight this and try and recoup money or file action against Kevin for fraud.

#4362 4 years ago
Quoted from robbycsmith:

From reading the pinball news and blog post I have no doubt he had all intention of trying to build these things under the radar.

I really, honestly think he meant to build them for everyone. I mean, if this was a scam it was a piss poor way to run one.

But still, there's zero excuse. There's no "but he seemed like one of us and a nice guy!". Maybe he was naive, maybe he really did talk to Fox and thought he was set.

But when you get a cease and desist it's obvious shit isn't cool anymore. And from that moment on the lies and fraud and bullshit start. And there's no "innocent Kevin" after that. He lied, LIED, to everyone. Even the people working with him who could get burned by that shit. No excuse.

26
#4363 4 years ago
keaunu_conspiracy.jpg
#4364 4 years ago

I for one will not ever buy anything from fast pinball....

25
#4365 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because really, this is about Kevin, FAST was just trying to work on his next game, and they got lied to like everyone else. Aaron is really only guilty of believing Kevin and using that to state that things were fine. Which might have been dumb, but it wasn't like he was in on some criminal conspiracy.

Couple things. First, like I said before, his posts were very adamant about what he knew, and he was telling people who were criticizing Kevin and were saying that there probably was no license to just STFU. He clearly implied that he had seen the actual Predator license. I back tracked on some of my comments about the license (called myself a "big boob"). But the truth is that Aaron never saw shit.

Why did Aaron go this far?

Because he was biased, that's why. I didn't realize it at the time. If I had, I would not have been so fast to believe what he said regarding there being "no issue with the license".

The bias doesn't come from being "friends with Kevin". It comes from having a financial stake in a pin that Kevin was going to make.

People can keep saying the focus should be Kevin. Well, no shit. But that doesn't mean that there might not be some other people whose credibility is going to take a hit as well. Aaron/FAST let himself get caught up in defending Kevin and will take that hit in credibility.

17
#4366 4 years ago

The do nothing.png

#4367 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I'm convinced that in his mind he believed wouldn't be caught

Or at least he thought he could work this all out. Keep the lies up a bit longer - I bet in his mind he thought if he fixed the non-license thing and/or was able to get another company to take over, all of us pre-order folks would just say "awesome"... still in!!!

The only word I can think of is "delusional"...

Kevin is nothing more than a con man... I am more pissed at myself for not seeing through his "nice guy" bullshit. When I look back at the past few months I really want to slap myself for actually making excuses for him and justifying his actions/inactions.

#4368 4 years ago

I must've missed the "Mr. X" part of this soap opera...

17
#4369 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Now wait a minute - talking about virtuapin, this isn't just villifying them for nothing. They are absolutely complicit in fraud in this quote. They outright say that they have vetted the license, which is completely untrue as we know now.

Good point. I forgot about them. There's another example of someone who is going to take a shot in the credibility department.

Should we not talk about them either?

#4370 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I must've missed the "Mr. X" part of this soap opera...

code name for the anonymous email group.

#4371 4 years ago

If I was a betting man, the only people who I see getting any money out of this is the lawyers. I know it won't get anyone there money back, but I hope its Fox that gets him the hardest.

#4372 4 years ago

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#4373 4 years ago

Hearing these horror stories, I have a mind to drive down to JJP and build my own fucking Hobbit.

#4374 4 years ago
Quoted from robbycsmith:

If I was a betting man, the only people who I see getting any money out of this is the lawyers. I know it won't get anyone there money back, but I hope its Fox that gets him the hardest.

Well, if you look at this way... We all paid a hefty fuckin' fee to put Kevin's ass in prison...

12
#4375 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

That aside, the license topic was put to bed in the other horrible Skit-B thread. I am friends with Kevin. I have had the terms of the agreement explained to me. They are in order. So let's drop it.

Quoted from fastpinball:

We all know that if Predator crashes and burns, then there won't be the opportunity to do game #2. Many of us not directly involved in Predator are working hard to support Kevin's effort to get that game out. Kevin has learned a lot from the Predator experience and has already been putting that into practice in how things are going with Game #2.

Quoted from fastpinball:

The fact that Kevin was able to entice new people to work with him and what he wants to do with his games should give Predator owners a little more confidence in what Kevin and Skit-B are doing in the short and long term.

10
#4376 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Why did Aaron go this far?
Because he was biased, that's why. I didn't realize it at the time. If I had, I would not have been so fast to believe what he said regarding there being "no issue with the license".
The bias doesn't come from being "friends with Kevin". It comes from having a financial stake in a pin that Kevin was going to make.

Fair enough. Though I think it's honestly less about a financial stake and more about Aaron really being eager to put his hardware to the test on a real game. No one, not Aaron and sure as hell not me, though that EoD was actually going to sell. It was a terrible title, a license no one gave a shit about with awful art.

Aaron is just the kind of guy who likes problem solving, and he's chomping at the bit to get his hands on a game.

But I hear you, and I don't think he should have stood up for Kevin. Too many warning signs, I wouldn't have done it myself. Was a mistake. I'm just saying, try to not crucify the poor guy for getting caught up in this shitstorm right as it was coming to a head. Kevin lied to him, his only true "crime" is believing what Kevin said too much.

Anyways, the only important thing right now is trying to get people's money back. I hope there's still a chance the bulk of it is retrievable.

#4377 4 years ago
Quoted from robbycsmith:

From reading the pinball news and blog post I have no doubt he had all intention of trying to build these things under the radar.

Is there any chance they will go after customers who knew he was doing this? I can certainly understand wanting it anyway you can get it vs losing $5K, but they are going to look him and his communications over with a fine toothed comb.

#4378 4 years ago

There's a general life rule that you vouch for very few people in this world. Certainly not people who even remotely look like something they did is suspect. If you do it's ends up reflecting poorly on the person if things go south, as evidenced here.

#4379 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

"Mr. X" just emailed me. He said that since Pinball News had gone live, so would he. Included this link in his email. I am working at the moment in a night club and have not had time to read.
http://predatorpinball.wordpress.com/

and now we watch one of the biggest threads go freaking nuclear... people who weren't on since last week will have no hope in catching up

#4380 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I really, honestly think he meant to build them for everyone. I mean, if this was a scam it was a piss poor way to run one.
But still, there's zero excuse. There's no "but he seemed like one of us and a nice guy!". Maybe he was naive, maybe he really did talk to Fox and thought he was set.
But when you get a cease and desist it's obvious shit isn't cool anymore. And from that moment on the lies and fraud and bullshit start. And there's no "innocent Kevin" after that. He lied, LIED, to everyone. Even the people working with him who could get burned by that shit. No excuse.

100% agree with you, he is not innocent. He's a moron, plain and simple. Going from the blog post, I believe in his mind he thought he could build a bunch of machines and that the whole Fox thing would blow over. Judging by the "punk" rock statement in the blog, i believe that was his intent. Build a bunch of machines and stick it to the man.

He's a moron, someone who was way over his head who thought he could build these things under the radar. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if come this Monday he still has it in his head to make that he's still going to make them, he's a moron. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

#4381 4 years ago

I just realized that they probably never had an EoD license either. If he pulled the same shenanigans on that game, it would at least mean there is some more money left for refunds.

#4382 4 years ago

Game #2 WTH people are trippin!! He is going to have a few new games in prison... Kevin is the definition of a ScUmBaG!!! Wow, hope he spent all the cash, so he can't afford a good lawyer... Rott MF'r! Sorry for all you that got robbed!

#4383 4 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Is there any chance they will go after customers who knew he was doing this? I can certainly understand wanting it anyway you can get it vs losing $5K, but they are going to look him and his communications over with a fine toothed comb.

all of the following could get evaluated (probably more):

1. Customers
2. Vendors
3. Employees & Contractors
4. Business Advisors (formally defined & informally)
5. Business Filings
6. Communications
7. Financial uses
8. etc...

#4384 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

I just realized that they probably never had an EoD license either. If he pulled the same shenanigans on that game, it would at least mean there is some more money left for refunds.

To clarify, I meant that hopefully Predator money wasn't wasted on an EoD license.

#4385 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

You're a day late with that one. You're going to have to own up to your part of this, trying to temper people while you knew exactly what was going on.

I've not understood why anyone gave him this new found credibility... where is his history and proven track record of success and solid practice? He sure seems to be doing alot of 'advising' recently... funny coming from the guy still trying to get his first pin product out.

#4386 4 years ago

well, at least the E0D guys knew of the project. they were there signing translites....
probably a collectors item now. lol

#4387 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

ouple things. First, like I said before, his posts were very adamant about what he knew, and he was telling people who were criticizing Kevin and were saying that there probably was no license to just STFU.

OK then same goes for Mr. X then right? They knew about the lack of license back in October but they stayed quiet.

#4388 4 years ago
#4389 4 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

well, at least the E0D guys knew of the project. they were there signing translites....
probably a collectors item now. lol

Yep, but I doubt that the Mythbusters guy showed up for free at California Extreme last year.

10448525_613062128802013_6469996909498731042_o.jpg

15
#4390 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I've not understood why anyone gave him this new found credibility... where is his history and proven track record of success and solid practice? He sure seems to be doing alot of 'advising' recently... funny coming from the guy still trying to get his first pin product out.

He's been pushed as the guy to save jpop as well. People talking big before they've produced anything is what got us to where we are today.

#4391 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I've also got some insight into Kevin's BS talk about PayPal. I think they've locked his account. It happened to me when I first started selling Shadow translites. They see a spike in your account taking money in and they lock shit down and ask you for proof that you're shipping things. The reason being that PayPal is ultimately on the hook if you defraud people. I had to give them tracking numbers and really show that I wasn't a thief before they unlocked and let me withdraw funds.

So my suspicion, based on some facts, some guesses, and some experience, is that any money he took from PayPal is still sitting there, untouched. I don't think he could have spent it if he wanted to.

Wish I could confirm that for sure, but I feel like that's what's going on there.

I'll confirm from both my own personal experience as well as that of a number of close friends that your experience with Paypal is not uncommon.

They'll freeze funds when there's a large influx of cash that's not the norm, even on fairly active accounts.

I believe that a lot of Kevin's B.S. about his "special" Paypal arrangements were simply the account being frozen until he could prove the money was legit and, as happened with your translite's, prove he was shipping the product he collected money for.

I'd wager the failure to get any games out the door as well as the initial attempt to only build ten was partially due to not being able to get access to the frozen Paypal funds.

So, there might be some hope for a partial refund.

11
#4393 4 years ago

To all that used a Credit Card via Pay Pal it would be wise to file a claim with the credit card company and ask for a charge back. ***I recommend using 12/31/14 as the estimated delivery date when asked by credit card company. There is now sufficient evidence that even if it is disputed by Skit-B the Credit Card company will side with its client.

#4394 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Anyone want to blow up skit-b's facebook with the anonymous link? I unfriended them after posting the Pinball News article on their wall and now I can't add it. It help get the message to the few that preordered and aren't on pinside

I just put this on their FB Page:
LIES:
Kevin had a license that was “small” and/or “inexpensive”.
Kevin had license limitations that limited or prevented promotion.
Kevin had a license that expired.
Kevin had a license that ended up incomplete, weak, or had “issues”
Kevin dug out his “license” and discovered he “didn’t have what he thought”
Kevin had “issues with his license” that are “being addressed”.

TRUTH:
Kevin NEVER had an actual license for ANYTHING on Predator.
At any time. From day one.
Of any scale, scope, or cost. Not a cent paid to anyone.
Of course, yes: Before he took investor money.
Knowingly. Planned that way. Simply skipped the entire process. Period.
His plan was to attempt to build 250 Predators, license-less for all IP used.
Save/keep the license money. No approval processes, complete freedom.
Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out.
Completely hide the project after selling it, to eliminate risk of ever getting caught.

#4395 4 years ago

I regretfully filed my claim with Paypal for my $3000...for whatever good it will do. If we don't have a resolution within a week, I'll go to my credit card. I should have protection there. Why anyone paid with their bank accounts, I'll never understand.

#4396 4 years ago

The mailman is going to be busy at Kevin's house this week.

Certified Letter 1) Note of Infringement lawsuit filed on behalf of FOX/21rst Century
Certified Letter 2) Civil litigation filed on behalf of at least one of the investors (might be several of these)
Certified letter 3) IRS letter notifying of their auditing of his tax returns of the last few years
Certified letter 4) Michigan tax department, same as 3.
Certified letter 5) From Paypal, notification of a formal investigation by their auditors/compliance

not to mention

The County DA investigating fraud (source of funds for purchase of wife's house)
State AG's office investigation of FELONY* Fraud

I personally do think their is money left from the investment and ultimately most will be returned. Awful mess. Good luck to all the buyers.

39
#4397 4 years ago

Does all this mean Experts of Dangerous will be delayed?

#4398 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

So ... where's Whysnow?

Somewhere in Colorado. Said he'd be at Lyons around 3pm in the CO FS/FT thread.

14
#4399 4 years ago

"Kevin told us, “As a colleague of mine has always said, we've always had something of a ‘punk rock’ approach to pinball which has inadvertently defined us from the beginning. We never meant to be the ‘punk rockers’ of pinball

Stop playing the victim, and do not use “punk rock” in this context. There is nothing “punk Rock” about it.

-2
#4400 4 years ago

I think the people that really wanted this title to be made (license or not) are really going to be pissed at the guy that outed him. I had no leg in this race one way or the other. I refuse to preorder shit, that's always been my advice.

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