(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#4301 4 years ago
Quoted from PorkChopExpress:

Shit B's wife will have to get a job now that he wil be going to prison.

Isn't she a witch? Surely she can magically refund all the money.

#4302 4 years ago

Per Amanda, "he [Kevin] is in the process of dealing with all of this like PayPal and his layers have adviced as well as getting the right info out there instead of the online slander you heard."

So take it for what it's worth, but he needs to act instead of continually feeding lies to everyone.

*edit: and before I get downvoted into oblivion, I asked her to please tell Kevin to get online and start issuing refunds.

#4303 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

^Scott, no ill will towards you man - I am just questioning how in the dark his wife actually was/is (obviously, the kids I wish no harm towards). Your post was just used as a point based on you bringing up immediate family around Kevin.

No trouble, edited my post slightly so it is worded more clearly. Still sick about all of it.

Scott

#4304 4 years ago

I think Adnan did it.

#4305 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Virtually everyone who met Kevin Kulek said the exact same thing.

I hear what you are saying, but until somebody shows me some criminal act that Aaron did I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, he's guilty of believing what Kevin told him, like a lot of other people.

How about Ted? Hilton? Or anybody else that had any support for Kevin. I don't think so.

Focus should be on Kevin.

13
#4306 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree, he ended up mistakenly in the Kevin camp and in hindsight, wrongly supported him. I'm sure he was as frustrated as everybody else.
All I'm saying is Aaron is a really good dude, I don't believe there was any intentional malice or cover up on his part, maybe over zealous support at times? I don't really know because I didn't follow this thread much up until now.
What about the damage Hilton has caused? He was duped and WAY over the top with his "support" and I don't blame him either.

dude...

you're starting to sound like you're part of "team kevin" on here. please, please... don't dig yourself into this. everyone associated with kevin is getting damaged here, and could very very very likely end up in legal actions by associating themselves with him and his "ADVISORS" (ala: FastPinball). i don't want to see that happen for you.

also, i'd immediately drop the "really good dude" labels pronto... cause ya know, according to all posts about Kevin... "kevin's a really good dude" too.

#4307 4 years ago

Just plain awful- feel bad for all who are directly impacted. At this point, just hoping you guys recover as much of your investment as possible. Yes- a sad day for the pinball community.

#4308 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

just in case:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Predator Pinball "License Gate" Backstory
Some words from the "Anonymous Insiders"
Predator PINBALL – The Complete Reveal
MARCH 21, 2015 ~ LEAVE A COMMENT
This page is being released as a supplemental & independent piece to accompany the Pinball News editorial, which we’re sure everybody is now aware of. Let us be clear up front: This WordPress publication is not affiliated with Pinball News, it’s opinion, or it’s editor. The following is our point of view, said in our way, based on the facts we gathered (all of which were provided to Pinball News as well), and provided here for all to read so they can finally hear the complete “behind the scenes” story – from the actual guys who broke the ground. In this format, without being under an editor or guidelines, we can say our piece in our own words, and tell OUR story.
Let’s Get Some Initial Things Out Of the Way:
Who are we?
We are indeed the “anonymous group” that many of you may have heard about the last month or so. The ones who were gently passing the complete Predator story forward via email, early, to key members of the hobby and selected Pinsiders (mainly trusted & respected Immortals, as well as Moderators, etc). Specifically, “we” are a handful of regular everyday pinballers, and most of us are everyday Pinsiders you already know.
Why are you anonymous? How dare you?
Due to who some of us are, and the positions we hold, unfortunately the gravity of the story and it’s potential outcomes forced us into anonymity. For now, anyway. With the inevitable drama that comes with the collapse of a once-adored pinball project, the focus on what matters could not be clouded or jeopardized by those who would most certainly make it all about us. This can never be a battle over motivations or biases. So we can’t allow it to become one. We’re not going to be “the guys who killed Predator” for some. Because we aren’t. Kevin Kulek killed Predator. By chopping off the ability to focus on “us” at this time, it allows the actual issue – the story we unearthed – to shine all on its own. Who we are doesn’t change the facts we ended up finding. It doesn’t validate them or invalidate them (as some may try to attempt, if we spoke as ourselves). Removing who we are from the equation keeps the facts on track, to stand on their own, and just hang there in the light. If anonymity doesn’t personally work for you, then fine. We get it. We can only provide what we know (and have) and let reality set in and take its course. That is precisely why we approached Pinball News first, at the very beginning. There could be no questioning of the story – and thus if it appears on Pinball News, that means it’s been vetted and verified, and given proper handling for counterpoint comment and defense (by Kevin himself). We, the original source, don’t matter.
But do you have “skin in the game” ?
One of us still does actually, yes. Still not refunded, and have been trying since Q4 2014. Two of us were pre-owners, but got out last year, early, successfully. The rest were never pre-owners, but were leading voices of skepticism during the height of “License-Gate” on Pinside back in late 2014.
You hate Skit-B and simply wanted to destroy the game.
We’ve heard that. We were called haters, deluded, conspiracists, sick fucks, asshats, and meddling kids (Scooby Doo, really?). To characterize our motivations in those ways may be comforting and conclusive for some… easily explaining away (in their minds) that we could only be evil-hearted, because the Predator project and Kevin Kulek could only be pure and good in contrast… Those folks would be wrong in their assessment of our motives. This issue is not about a pinball machine. It’s about a liar and horrible risky business being active in our hobby, and handling a million dollars of our money. It cannot happen again. Yes, the machine itself ends up suffering a dark fate, but a machine is made of wood and wires. People are more important. The hobby has self-cleansed itself and policed itself very well for countless years – from pointing out Craigslist scams, to warning about bad sellers, to outing dishonest members of the community. The bad gets purged. The good gets raised up. This situation is no different. Except it took way too long to reach the point of revelation. Sometimes people who appear good, pull stunts that are very very bad – and unless somebody speaks up to reveal that – the bad reigns, and has the chance of becoming an even worse catastrophe later on. Our information is frankly a little late coming out as it is. Predator could have taken a much easier fall, and Kevin had an easier out, six months ago. Had any of us known…
Why did Skit-B get singled out? Why not investigate JJP, Stern, and Heighway regarding their licenses?
Any line of questioning going in this direction is beyond ridiculous. The cause-and-effect factor is imperative to understand. Kevin ended up causing an effect, which DROVE the investigating to happen. Let’s put it this way: If Jersey Jack, Stern, or Heighway (or anybody) make their premiere production disappear without a trace, and won’t mention it by name in writing… then you had better believe raging debates will break out over them hiding the IP, and calls to confirm a license will indeed be performed again to settle the argument. Rule of thumb: Those who are truly & legally licensed, proudly flaunt and promote their product(s) in the open market at all times.
Why were you sneaking the story to only select people?
This question will likely come up, and it’s important. People will likely wonder why we just didn’t plaster Kevin’s situation far and wide, and at the very least tell the 250 pre-owners. Once you read the entire backstory below, hopefully you will get a better understanding on why we were constrained for many months on breathing a word to ANYBODY beyond ourselves and Pinball News – who in turn was also in contact with Kevin throughout this whole period. The relatively recent “leaking” to select people was a matter of seeding the eventual Pinball News story that was coming out, to certain “pillars” in the community. This included highly respected & rational Pinsiders, some Pinside moderators, some of the lawyers on Pinside, several producers directly involved with the Skit-B project, and members of the “press” (podcasters, etc). This was meant to gently “prep” strong voices in the hobby for the eventual hellstorm that was coming – so they could be armed with the facts, and mentally prepared to be rational and balanced, later in a sea of speculation and flailing. It should also be noted, the story was also forwarded to one pre-owner (the “Leading Pre-owner”) as we felt he should be prepped to lead the group – but he refused to accept a word of what he was told, and blindly kept cheerleading the project and being an apologist for every issue. We were stunned on that one. Maybe today he will finally believe what we told him – six weeks ago.
Why didn’t you just post everything to PinSide during the peak of “License-Gate” and win the argument? We could have been done with this months ago.
As you will read in the backstory below, we were basically muzzled. Plus, it took many months for things to fully unfold for Kevin behind the scenes anyway. Sure, it would have been great (but juvenile) to go back to Pinside with our findings and “win” the argument in November 2014. But, the hard reality of what we discovered was extremely sobering. It set us back in our seats for a long while. Suddenly, true reality rose above a war of words on a blog site. This was serious business. A million dollars was on the line. We caught the producer of a major pinball investment project in a very big lie. A lie that was also now known by the IP holder…who was now out to snuff Kevin… we knew Predator was doomed in November 2014, but how does one manage to roll that message out? That is why we immediately started with Pinball News, due to the gravity and responsibility of such a message to the hobby. Pinside was out of the question for something like this.
Why now? What took so long?
We sat on this shit for months. It hurt. It ached. It really did. Truly heavy hearts all around, for the 250 people with their hard earned money possibly getting trapped in this thing. Even without our information, the Predator project was unraveling on its own the last few months anyway. Pitchforks were out at varying times. Then Kevin would quell the masses with a poetic heroic email, and the pitchforks would go away. Rinse and repeat. We could only stand by as Pinball News did their research, Fox IP kept giving us updates, and the story was being built and vetted for publication. Keep in mind, Kevin has been in on the story being built at Pinball News for months. He knew we all knew everything. Kevin always kept winning reprieve by coming up with new “hope” that kept the story back… and Pinball News didn’t want to scuttle the project by creating a mass exit situation. So it took so long to publish because Kevin was given dozens of breaks, and more than enough gentlemanly olive branches. In a nutshell, Martin Ayub is a terribly nice guy. Almost to a fault. Martin knew the gravity of what Kevin pulled, and knew it had to be revealed someday… The machine itself being built or not is not relevant to the story (in our opinion). Kevin being caught in a lie, with all of its ramifications to the investors, was the story. A handful games shipping or not. Regardless, here we are. It’s all finally published. Kevin was shielded for long enough. Martin did his best, and respect must be given for the restraint and fairness he has shown, under these really shitty circumstances. This is where the meddle of a journalist is tested, and Martin proved himself having a strong spine for a long time. Certainly longer than we would have given.
OK enough. So what was this big dark story that nobody knew?
Speculations on Kevin’s problems (and public hiding of the project) were all over the place the last five months. Some were close, some were far off. One thing is for sure: “License-Gate” was completely correct at the time. Even in recent weeks, with the story seeded to some, and leaked in parts here and there, many still don’t know the complete depth of how much of a license “problem” Kevin actually had. With the Pinball News article, and regardless of Kevin’s defense, we’re going to tell you the entire background here and now. The depth of Kevin’s “problem” and the depth of his actual level of being in trouble will now be revealed from our point of view, and how it happened for us.
—–
But First and Foremost, Let’s Just Get this Out There:
Before we get to the backstory details, underneath everything you are about to learn, and regardless of all of Kevin’s former explanations and claims (you have to let those go – they were simply not true)… with all the snippets and fractured versions of theories out there, let’s just get down to the bottom line. If there is anything everybody needs to absorb first & foremost, it’s this:
LIES:
Kevin had a license that was “small” and/or “inexpensive”.
Kevin had license limitations that limited or prevented promotion.
Kevin had a license that expired.
Kevin had a license that ended up incomplete, weak, or had “issues”
Kevin dug out his “license” and discovered he “didn’t have what he thought”
Kevin had “issues with his license” that are “being addressed”.
TRUTH:
Kevin NEVER had an actual license for ANYTHING on Predator.
At any time. From day one.
Of any scale, scope, or cost. Not a cent paid to anyone.
Of course, yes: Before he took investor money.
Knowingly. Planned that way. Simply skipped the entire process. Period.
His plan was to attempt to build 250 Predators, license-less for all IP used.
Save/keep the license money. No approval processes, complete freedom.
Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out.
Completely hide the project after selling it, to eliminate risk of ever getting caught.
Please let that sink in. Read it again if necessary. The utter worst-case scenario assumed under the “License-Gate” controversy, was actually the true case. No problems or issues… no licenses AT ALL… and to Kevin’s dismay, he DID get caught.
People assumed there would be no way possible that any pinball creator or business, especially a bro as “nice” as Kevin Kulek, would have the brass balls and/or stupidity to risk a million dollars of other peoples’ money on actually building 250 licensed-themed pinball machines, without a license, hide it all for safety, and simply PRETEND to have complete unincumbered rights to it all…
But yes. Yes. Yes, it IS possible. It just happened.
This is precisely the business acumen and risk/gambler mind of Kevin Kulek.
He simply never conceived of getting caught. That’s all. In his mind – license, meh, it’s all good. I’m just a dude in my basement. What are the chances? He may have been correct. Extremely low chances. Likely zero. But… he took everything offline as a cautionary step – which sounded alarms, and showed his hand – created License-Gate – Kevin couldn’t clearly explain it or produce compelling evidence to the contrary – and thus his hiding everything actually became his undoing.
—–
So Where Does All This Come From?
So lets go back to the beginning, and we’ll reveal the entire backstory. You can compare this background to Kevin’s version of events. We’ll use a timeline format to make it easier:
OCTOBER 2014
Predator “License-Gate” is at it’s peak (at the time). Emotions are flaring. Arguments are being had. The internet had long been scrubbed by Kevin of everything showing Skit-B is producing Predator. Predator isn’t being named in private emails from Kevin. Predator is gone from Kevin’s web site (reverted back to Duck Hunt, etc). Posts and updates from Kevin have dropped to non-existant levels. Kevin is evasive on questions concerning his true rights to the assets. Friends of Kevin are stepping up to vouch for his licensing story – but they are only going on what he is telling them – nobody has seen anything. Kevin produces nothing, which would snuff any speculation instantly. So many outs, so many potential answers, but nothing is given, and all answers are the wrong answers or completely weak answers. Camps break off into loyals vs. conspiracists. It ends up that anybody not believing Kevin at his word are assholes. Anybody pressing the issue are tin-foil hatters. Kevin comes online and says “Predator” and it’s over with… the conspiracists are beaten into the laughing stock, Kevin wins over the applauding masses.
Problem is, near the end of the weeks of debate – there was a challenge. It was brought up by several people, and an extremely good suggestion… to simply end the debate once and for all, why not just contact Fox IP and find out the answer? Dozens of us were offline talking in private messages and emails for weeks about Kevin’s claims anyway. We got to talking about the Fox thing. One guy was “absolutely sure, through a friend” Kevin was lying and didn’t have anything. The rest (including us) had our opinion, but could only speculate. Time to end speculation. Let’s just settle this once and for all. We’ll come back and report our findings, regardless of what they are (that was the hope) and the hobby can be done with this crap for good. So a few of us broke away from the private chats and emails, got together as a smaller group, and went on our own mission to figure out a way to get an answer from 20th Century Fox….
First of all, getting to IP at Fox is an ORDEAL. They are completely “unpublished” and a very specific division that doesn’t take contact from the “public”. In fact, the actual division of 20th Century Fox that handles their intellectual property is a separate entity called Fox Licensing & Merchandising Corporation. Completely separate from the entertainment divisions. There is absolutely no number to Fox (at all) on the back of any Predator DVD, let alone any number getting you near FL&MC. Just so everybody knows. Be sure to watch Kevin’s interview (on video) telling the fictional story about a “cool Fox pinhead licensor”… We sensed a problem with Kevin’s story right at the beginning. We forged onward, having to email into a specific FL&MC general inbox (as dictated by a switchboard operator who said nobody can be forwarded into FL&MC on the phone). We sent a very basic email in there, requesting an email address or phone number to address our questions regarding the licensing of a consumer product…
Entire days went by. Got a response back. Basically a handler at the front lines looking for what we wanted to know. She requested we submit what we want, and she’d handle getting it to the right people. Again, everybody is shielded, and we have no contact info except her return address. We draw up the simple yes/no question about a run of Predator pinball machines, asking for a confirmation of official licensed merchandise status, and attached a picture of the game. Sent.
NOVEMBER 2014
Many many days went by. It was certainly over a week. Definitely into November by now. We actually thought the whole thing was a dead end, and practically had given up on ever knowing. We were moving on, and didn’t care much any more. But then an email landed one day… with a very serious tone. It was from Bryce Coughlin, senior IP counsel for Fox Intellectual Property. He didn’t answer our question in his email. He wanted a phone call to speak to one of us directly, as HE had questions he needed answered. Number provided.
Called him. He ended up wanting to know all about the Predator project. How it came about, who’s manufacturing it, where are they being sold, etc. He didn’t address anything about a license on the call. It was all questions. He said he was going to go look up Predator pinball, and give us his findings. But the tone of the call, and the material asked, sounded a lot like he had no clue about Predator pinball.
A couple weeks went by. Mr. Coughlin called back. He had performed due diligence to make sure everything was searched, and he knew for sure. He stated that there was absolutely no license for Predator pinball, they haven’t heard of Skit-B Pinball, and the project is absolutely Infringement. Now there was a problem. Here we are, after asking the questions to get an answer, we got the answer, but this process also inadvertently tipped Fox IP off to the project itself. So yes, November 2014 was the first time Fox had ever heard of Predator pinball. When did Kevin launch the product and take initial deposits? Wow.
Mr. Coughlin started a process of callbacks and interviews to talk to several of us. He wanted to find out about the whole sales approach, the preorder, the deposits, the numbers, and what Kevin is saying. Mr Coughlin ended up finding all the threads on Pinside, all Kevin’s announcements and reports, videos of the game at shows on YouTube, and even the original site (before it got took down) on archive.org. In no uncertain terms, he expressed that Fox will be taking immediate action to stop Kevin. We expressed our concern for the 250 Pre-owners, and they need to know Fox is shutting things down, because they need to start requesting their refunds. We were asked to NOT tell the 250 people (or anybody) as Fox wanted complete and undisturbed access to Kevin without any warning or disturbance. That is kind of where things ended for communication from Fox at that time. We didn’t go back to Pinside. Shit just got really heavy, and as far as we were told, Predator was 100% not going to happen…yet a million dollars is sitting paid for it… Kevin is caught.
DECEMBER 2014
We bring the story to Pinball News. The weight of handling the information looming large. Martin Ayub accepted the challenge of handling such a message.
Also this month (found out later, in February), Kevin is served with a Cease & Desist letter. He of course doesn’t tell his Pre-owners.
JANUARY 2015
Kevin is actually served “several more” letters (according to Mr. Coughlin, we weren’t told until contact in February). Yes, several.
Kevin continues to build, and release update emails that Fox is seeing on Pinside. Fox is getting pissed off. Kevin actually had the brass balls (or again, bullheaded stupidity) to continue with Predator. Knowing he’s caught. Doesn’t care. This is only speculation at this point, but we think Kevin actually believed in his mind that he was covered by some concept of some rights (non-profit, homebrew project, or something) that he’s had in his head since the beginning. That Fox has no grounds to poke at him. Just a hunch, but Kevin avoiding the license from the beginning has some roots in some belief that he’s “allowed, no problem”. We were shocked to hear of his defiance to the C&D’s. But it revealed the kind of guy everybody is dealing with here. Either delusional, or very insanely daring.
This is why it appeared, even with Kevin’s rare communications, that things were being built during these months. While in fact, Kevin was getting bombed by C&D’s and not saying a word. Now you know.
Meanwhile, Martin IS communicating with Kevin in the background, seeking a response to the internally-known situation. Looking for comment. Kevin is talking, but cryptically and vaguely. Kevin is aware of our Fox contact, our claims, and we think Martin even encouraged Kevin to make some significant decisions about coming clean about things. Kevin didn’t. At this point, the Pre-owners are still in the dark.
FEBRUARY 2015
It’s been a couple months, and contact with Mr. Coughlin finally happens again. (This is when we learned about what Fox tried in December and January) We nearly fell over in disbelief at Kevin’s reaction. They wanted to know if Kevin had shipped any finished games yet. We told them no. Fox IP was getting pissed off, and since Kevin was refusing to stop building, we were told that they are escalating the Predator matter to next steps. Bigger steps. We still expressed a worry for the 250 Pre-owners, but were asked again (and thanked) for remaining quiet and not creating a panic. February 9th we were told “we are getting high-level signoffs to move forward, you will see action in the next 3 to 4 weeks that is very visible. You will be the first to know”.
MARCH 2015
Kevin’s “dark” emails come out. Kevin makes some weak acknowledgements in private emails to the Pre-owners that he is essentially being “attacked by outside forces” (playing the victim) but doesn’t say that it’s Fox IP. He only weakly admits to “issues with his license” (there is NO license, and he continues to lie) and we can’t believe he’s still using the cover story insinuating that he’s licensed. Kevin plays himself and the project off in a heroic light of overcoming insurmountable odds, and with typical flavor, thanks everyone to death for their ongoing commitment. He indicates forging onward, and still seems to insist Predator is getting produced. He indicates IP issues are being worked on by somebody helping him.
March 10th, another contact with Mr. Coughlin (and our last one to date) he admitted to being overwhelmed by other cases, and he’d been away from the Predator case the last many weeks. But he’d be back “tomorrow” looking at it again. (Looks like Kevin got a bit of a reprieve) We asked if Kevin or a third party was negotiating with Fox to buy a Predator license in the present, to apply to the run of these games via another producer. We were told their office had heard from nobody, haven’t heard of such a thing, and it wouldn’t be likely/possible anyway. The entire game, the last 2 years, was a case of Infringement.
Frankly, it would seem odd that an infringer who was caught, C&D’d, and being sued, would be able to simply walk up at the end and buy a license for their production. However, we think Kevin has this idea as a solution. Have somebody else (somebody clean and new) buy the license as if Predator pinball was a new product idea hatched yesterday… oh, the brilliant mind of Kevin Kulek. Always thinking ! If that is not a facepalm moment, we don’t know what is.
As Nate on the Coast2Coast Pinball podcast (Episode #147) said: Eject. It’s done. Stick a fork in it. It’s not worth fighting to build this any more. In the near future, this whole thing may actually be finally filed in a court of law. It’s time to back away, absolutely beg for mercy from Fox, and bring a conclusion to this debacle. 250 machines being built is 1000 miles away from being a priority right now.
CONCLUSION
After knowing everything that Kevin has NOT told his Pre-owners, and glossed over all the legal trouble happening behind the scenes the last 3 months, and why it happened, and why he took the project offline in the first place… it’s just been one sneaky or dishonest move after another. A complete white flag waved has been waved recently, that Skit-B self-admittedly isn’t even capable of building the run. Think about it, that’s even if a license was handed to them for free without prejudice. But Skit-B remains holding everybody’s funding. As much as there were lies exposed surrounding the licensing… people are digging deeper. Now there are (fairly new) inquiries being brought up in the hobby regarding Kevin’s claims of all deposits allegedly held in a type of “PayPal escrow” (claimed completely safe, even if he died). Plus new discussions emerging about Kevin’s “Non-Profit” claims, and alleged 501C tax status. How far down the rabbit hole did Kevin actually go? We’re fearing today’s revelations may only be the tip of the iceberg.
We’re sorry it went down this way. We’re not sorry we made the original call to check on Kevin’s claims. We are on the side of the 250 owners, and only care about their best exit. We don’t care about Kevin Kulek’s welfare any more. He made his bed. He created this mess. Insane risk like this can’t happen again in the hobby. Thank goodness this project is basically pre-production where technically little has been spent as possible. Allegedly only parts for 10 games of 250. That means 240/250 (or 96%) of the funds should still be available, right? Somehow we don’t think so… which is yet another issue Kevin must tell the truth about – and why there isn’t 96% left. Think if Kevin had been caught halfway through. What would be left then? Time for truth and transparency. Some of Kevin’s stances (his version of what happened to him) will differ. Just know that we have zero agenda or anything to gain here. Every single part of this story is correct and accurate. If you still have doubts, and you think this is all just a character attack on Kevin or some “sick fuck” sport to shut down a boutique shop… all we can say is… Wake up. Please.

Way to go Labnip....you are a true pinball detective.

#4309 4 years ago

Ice ,
Aaron also said Kevin was a nice guy so that's one to be careful with.
The difference between him and you is that you have not sugar coated anything while stepping in the Jpop situation. You have told it from a very removed poin of view. If you told everyone stop asking questions take a break you know everythings ok and it wasn't that would be this story and that's not you.
At the same time it's not a great moment to be attached to Kevin or those that helped.

22
#4310 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree, he ended up mistakenly in the Kevin camp and in hindsight, wrongly supported him. I'm sure he was as frustrated as everybody else.
All I'm saying is Aaron is a really good dude, I don't believe there was any intentional malice or cover up on his part, maybe over zealous support at times? I don't really know because I didn't follow this thread much up until now.
What about the damage Hilton has caused? He was duped and WAY over the top with his "support" and I don't blame him either.
It's a terrible F ing situation. Better jump all over Kevin right now and get whatever's left before more of it disappears.

Quoted from RobT:

Virtually everyone who met Kevin Kulek said the exact same thing.

I understand your perspective on this Ice, but if you could see the PM's sent back and forth between me and Aaron when the truth was coming out, you would realize that Aaron's nice guy persona is for business purposes. He heavily flamed me for getting him to admit the truth on the forum. His #1 priority in all this was to keep people in the dark and try to keep EOD solvent.

I normally would hesitate to bring PM's into the public, but I am really sick of people defending slimy people who "seem like nice guys."

12
#4311 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I hear what you are saying, but until somebody shows me some criminal act that Aaron did I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, he's guilty of believing what Kevin told him, like a lot of other people.
Focus should be on Kevin.

Nope.

He's guilty of more than that I'm afraid. I've already explained it in my prior post. It did a lot more than just convey what Kevin told him. He was emphatic about it, and definitely implied that he had personal knowledge of facts that he didn't.

Oh, and people were giving Kulek "the benefit of the doubt" right up until the end too. Being a nice guy and all...

#4312 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Per Amanda, "he [Kevin] is in the process of dealing with all of this like PayPal and his layers have adviced as well as getting the right info out there instead of the online slander you heard."

"layers have adviced"... Wow.

#4313 4 years ago

Sad News, and even more sad that Skit B will likely take down others with it. I just can't see anyone supporting Fast Pinball ever again. Even if Aaron is the nicest most well intentioned person ever he likely won't be able to recover from this. Kevin is a crook any which way you slice it. I am sorry for whoever is stuck in this pre-order mess. I am now curious to see how many people are gong to start canceling and asking for money back from other companies now.

#4314 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

you're starting to sound like you're part of "team kevin" on here. please, please... don't dig yourself into this. everyone associated with kevin is getting damaged here, and could very very very likely end up in legal actions by associating themselves with him. i don't want to see that happen for you.
also, i'd immediately drop the "really good dude" labels pronto... cause ya know... "kevin's a really good dude" too.

First of all Dude, I'll say whatever the F I want, I've never spoken to Kevin and don't worry, I can take care of myself.

You guys want to throw the lynch mob net wider, rock and roll, knock yourselves out, I'm putting my opinion out there on Aaron and I don't give F what anybody else thinks, right or wrong.

#4315 4 years ago

I just can't get over the fact. He seriously thought once he had them built and shipped, this could never go back retroactively on them? Like someone from Fox wouldn't see one at a bar, see skit-b plastered on the side, done a quick google search that led him to Pinside, where some company sold Predator and is now making other games, and not sue the shit out of them!?

Geez

#4316 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

"layers have adviced" Wow.

Yeah, it left a lot to be desired... but holding out hope she gets him to do the right thing (cause hope is all that I have now unless PayPal grows a heart and allows for a mass dispute on Kevin).

#4317 4 years ago

Anyone want to PM me who Mr.X is?

#4318 4 years ago

Ted,
At least say you are sorry too. Damn what a load with the two week wait.

And yes it's still all Kevin's fault.

And you know what folks it's not just fn pinball! It's about people ! Damn I'm pissed off right now it's life not just a game.

#4319 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Way to go Labnip....you are a true pinball detective.

i just wanted to snap-shot that write-up in case it changes over time.

#4320 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I hear what you are saying, but until somebody shows me some criminal act that Aaron did I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, he's guilty of believing what Kevin told him, like a lot of other people.
Focus should be on Kevin.

This. I see no point trying to vilify FAST, VirtuaPin, or any of the would-have-been partners that Kevin was involved with. Enough bridges have been burned, and there's no sense shunning anyone besides Kevin. Is anyone going to send pitchforks after Spooky for the playfields? No.

Hell, even Whysnow's botique evangelism will now quiet down and we'll all have a good laugh with him about it over a beer at MGC. We will go "Hey, remember when you were on the hunt for Mr. X? Good times, good times". "To Mr. X!" *beers clang*

#4321 4 years ago

Anyone want to blow up skit-b's facebook with the anonymous link? I unfriended them after posting the Pinball News article on their wall and now I can't add it. It help get the message to the few that preordered and aren't on pinside

-6
#4322 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

i just wanted to snap-shot that write-up in case it changes over time.

Yeah....sure.

#4323 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

He's guilty of more than that I'm afraid. I've already explained it in my prior post. It did a lot more than just convey what Kevin told him. He was emphatic about it, and definitely implied that he had personal knowledge of facts that he didn't.

I admittedly haven't followed this, I'm involved in my own shit storm with Jpop, don't know about PM's or a lot of this mess, I'm just expressing my own experience with Aaron and what I believe.

You guys can believe what you want, I may be wrong, like everybody was about Kevin, who knows, for now though, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Who's going to pay for a lawyer to get involved in this mess? What are people going to get?

The best thing that could happen is Kevin distribute whatever's left pro rata IMMEDIATELY!

#4324 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Anyone want to blow up skit-b's facebook with the anonymous link? I unfriended them after posting the Pinball News article on their wall and now I can't add it. It help get the message to the few that preordered and aren't on pinside

Done!

#4325 4 years ago

My custom Predator message is fitting...

Kevin, you lose it here, you're in a world of hurt.

#4326 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

First of all Dude, I'll say whatever the F I want, I've never spoken to Kevin and don't worry, I can take care of myself.
You guys want to throw the lynch mob net wider, rock and roll, knock yourselves out, I'm putting my opinion out there on Aaron and I don't give F what anybody else thinks, right or wrong.

hey... i'm not thinking "lynch mob net"... i'm worried about the "legal net" for everyone working with Kevin & how you're now working yourself into the story. please say whatever you want, and never let me get in your way. just trying to help you out...

please... tell us more about your involvement with Aaron, Predator, and Skit-B... the floor is all yours.

#4327 4 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I am now curious to see how many people are gong to start canceling and asking for money back from other companies now.

Only the smart ones !

21
#4328 4 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Only the smart ones !

This is the end of the preorder and boutique era as we know it. And I feel fine.

17
#4329 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Who's going to pay for a lawyer to get involved in this mess?

I will my brother... just because of this - "in matters of principle, stand like a rock."

#4330 4 years ago

Maybe a lawyer can comment? If the 200 approached Paypal as a group with this news that they were used to defraud ~200 people out of nearly a million dollars, might they be a bit more helpful than "it's been 180 days, tough shi*"?

This is still very bad publicity for them. It would look good on their part to at least try to help now that it is officially a scam.

Thoughts?

#4331 4 years ago
Quoted from s1500:

This. I see no point trying to vilify FAST, VirtuaPin, or any of the would-have-been partners that Kevin was involved with.

Dude why not? The last two you mention here were pretty much covering it up for him up until today.

Either they were led to believe this cock & bull story all along or they just KNEW and were buying more time for him.

Now, would Mr.Stellenberg confirm if the order was placed for all the boards?

#4332 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Who's going to pay for a lawyer to get involved in this mess? What are people going to get?

If Kevin doesn't return money, I am more than willing to group up to drive him straight into the ground to ensure he does not come out of this with anything from the people that he knowingly conned, repeatedly.

#4333 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Who's going to pay for a lawyer to get involved in this mess? What are people going to get?

Contingency basis. Only way.

#4334 4 years ago

Paypal has an "infringement report policy"...

#4335 4 years ago

Those following the model of prepayment will need to modify their business approach to have some form of a license validation/certification process going forward. I think this is certainly bad for the industry. JJP wouldn't be there without the prepay model and while I like Stern very much, competition and innovation go hand-in-hand.

Kevin is looking at a rough week ahead.

#4336 4 years ago

If Kevin was to return money, wouldn't he of done it months ago...

13
#4337 4 years ago

Here's the thing, IF Aaron or anybody else knew the depths of this fiasco, how stupid would it be to support and delay this fraud, with all the facts out now, knowing full well it would come back on them, think about it and use some common sense.

How much was Aaron paid? Was he on the payroll of Kevin? Did he benefit in any way monetarily?

I've got a much bigger problem with the guys that actually knew what was going on and didn't come clean right away with the FACTS.

They went to the lengths of questioning FOX, found out the real story, and then just sat on it while more money was wasted.

10
#4338 4 years ago

This is gonna be worse than when I bought that stripper a car (which she subsequently crashed).

#4339 4 years ago

iceman44, I think your bigger problem is you got money in JPOP aka Skit-B 2.0.

#4340 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

Contingency basis. Only way.

To get what? Anything left?

You know what contingency means, at least a 1/3rd and up to a 1/2 if it goes to trial plus court costs.

Why does he need to be sued? If he doesn't refund the money asap, he's a bigger fool than anyone could imagine.

It's criminal action that he better worry about, guys are gonna get what's left, pro rata without a lawyer is my hope for everybody.

#4341 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

OK...HERE WE GO!
I JUST got finished speaking with Kevin. I asked ALL the hard questions. Here is a quick summery:
YES, he is busy.
YES, the license is fine.
Everything is moving forward.

Quoted from spfxted:

...and so do I...and, YES, there are times when you can't say certain things. It will be explained soon...

So, care to share now the "certain things" you knew 2-3 weeks ago when you were sharing that "good news report" from Kevin?

#4342 4 years ago

Did I read that right. The C&D came before the initial $250??? That long ago???? WHAT THE F! This could've been solved from the beginning?? I was under the impression the C&D was October 2014, not 2013.

The anonymous and pinball news conflict

#4343 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

If Kevin was to return money, wouldn't he of done it months ago...

I'm convinced that in his mind he believed he wouldn't be caught, and he would be happy in the end. Sociopath behavior to a T. Someone will basically have to force him to do the right thing.

#4344 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

iceman44, I think your bigger problem is you got money in JPOP aka Skit-B 2.0.

You think so smart ass? I appreciate your genius opinion on the matter

#4345 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

This is the end of the preorder and boutique era as we know it. And I feel fine.

You know that some people who have deposits in on TBL will be asking for a refund based solely on the Skit-B fiasco.

20
#4346 4 years ago
Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!
Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest.
Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

Now wait a minute - talking about virtuapin, this isn't just villifying them for nothing. They are absolutely complicit in fraud in this quote. They outright say that they have vetted the license, which is completely untrue as we know now.

-2
#4347 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

please... tell us more about your involvement with Aaron, Predator, and Skit-B... the floor is all yours.

I just did, got it? Is it clear to you yet? What are you going to do about it? What a F ing joke.

#4348 4 years ago

Had to be escalated to a claim with paypal because the "seller couldn't be reached for communication" as soon as I hit the dispute button...

Left them a little note, not much, but I am not a lawyer and it's a start:

"Skit-B conned over 200 people out of nearly 1 million dollars in their Predator preorder scam.
Related articles: http://www.pinballnews.com/comment/predatorpinball.html
https://predatorpinball.wordpress.com/
Not a single machine has been built or delivered. All "buyers" involved should be refunded their money."

16
#4349 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Yeah....sure.

you do realize people often edit or remove content on websites right
we now have a copy here, a snapshot of it in time.
no good deed goes unpunished...

#4350 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You know that some people who have deposits in on TBL will be asking for a refund based solely on the Skit-B fiasco.

They should be.

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