I must be getting old, because all I see in those pics are little girls. And I'm only 29.

Wow, I replaced you from the wait list. Always wondered who #112 originally was...

http://www.pinballnews.com/comment/predatorpinball.html

Kevin speaks (to pinball news apparently)

There it is!

This is going to be interesting to read to say the least......

"Unlike most of our articles, this one will be quite a long read and won’t include many pretty pictures. But the picture it paints is not a pretty one either."

Not a good start.

Reading now...

"In fact it now appears Fox had sent Skit-B a 'cease & desist' notification, requiring them to remove all Predator-related materials and stop promoting or producing the game.

And yet the Predator project rolled on regardless. "

That's all I need to know.

The guy is a crook.

That means Martin had knowledge of this at a time when many including myself could have charged back the paypal payment. F*ckin journalists eh? Always in it for the glory of the story.

Y'know I even asked that guy for help? Sure does feel like a kick in the face right now.

Wow... Interesting read.

Can't believe Kevin still wouldn't address direct questions from Pinball News.

Kevin, refund OUR MONEY partially if you have to, it will reduce your jail time

That's the proper way, if you're a punk rock style company.

What a piece of shit

Unreal

Heighway shouldn't touch this...

Heighway will get the license without Kevin and do a complete redesign. Let the witch hunt begin. I wouldn't want to be this Kevin guy for a million bucks.

Holy shit. The crook took money AFTER he was issued a cease and desist. Wow. Just wow. Someone needs jail time to think about their actions.

This thread may implode by the time I get up in the morning.

How is there no inquiry as to how much money is left?

Just read the story....I cannot believe the level of stupidity of this guy. I rank Kevin right up there with Vonnie D.

Skit-B really is the Ram Controls of Pinside...

So glad I declined moving off the wait list. Cannot imagine how frustrated those that stayed in are at this point. My sympathy to you guys.

Ok mind implosion over. Its time we organised ourselves or we will most certainly be ignored indefinitely.

Exactly.

No way should Andrew even consider touching this with Kevin involved. And that means that he can't touch any of that money that was paid to Kevin. Forget about it. That would be a nightmare situation from a business standpoint and makes no sense whatsoever.

Heighway already has a relationship with Fox. They can get the license themselves and like you say, design the game from the ground up.

Zero reason to touch this current situation with a 10 foot pole.

To all those that had/have money in this, my feels go out to you.

"Soon after, Kevin told Pinball News that all efforts to negotiate a deal with Fox had been exhausted and he could see no way forward."

Holy sh!t.

How could there be? Kevin is the only who knows the answer to that question. If he gave an answer, would it mean anything at this point?

Absolute crazy. Never had a license. Ignored a cease and desist. Finally shut down by Fox. Sorry, but it's absolutely criminal. He clearly understood what the cease and desist was and he knowingly ignored it anyway. That doesn't make you a "bad business man". That makes you a criminal!!!

Sorry to everyone with money in. This project is absolutely dead. As noted, those 10 games worth of parts are worthless because Fox would never approve the artwork. All artwork would have to be completely re-done and approved (playfield, cabinet, and translate.) There is no way people will trust Kevin ever again and who in their right mind would not want a refund right now?? Game over sadly.

I hope you guys get a good percentage of your money back. Good luck.

"Mr. X" just emailed me. He said that since Pinball News had gone live, so would he. Included this link in his email. I am working at the moment in a night club and have not had time to read.

http://predatorpinball.wordpress.com/

Agree 100% the Predator project is dead, it would taint them by association. I just spoke with Andrew, he's apparently walked away from negotiations with Kevin. No good can come from Predator now, it's over.

Kevin simply has to refund pro rata any money that is left, take whatever legal action comes and serve his inevitable jail time.

One thing I did not notice in the article is the subject of what status Kevin has for Skit-B. Is it a non-profit, is he acting as an individual without a company, or is it an LLC or something similar?
Also, does Kevin and/or Skit-B have tax filing issues related to the income from the sales?

What a mess.

wow.
no license. ever. = lies to customers. lies to community.
my heart goes out to everyone impacted. i wouldn't wish this on anyone, especially my friends here.

"And although it wasn't widely discussed at the time, it was clear to anyone following the story that there were licensing problems. But nobody seemed willing to delve too deeply into them for fear of derailing the project or being branded a 'hater'. "

Sorry, but this needs to be highlighted. Too much truth here.

I personally will buy a skull to help raise money for the buyers!

Horrible....

So many disturbing rumors now reinforced as fact.

But this comment floored me:

Kevin told us, “ So here we go, as loud and clear as I can: I am not a manufacturer, I am a pinball designer. I am not a business man, I am a life-long pinhead and over-dedicated arcade rat. I don't need to get this done in the conventional way, I just need to make sure it gets done.”

What that sounds like is absolutely zero self-awareness of how f*^%*^- up this is- more like he's some pinball rebel defiantly continuing forward without regret.

"we've always had something of a ‘punk rock’ approach to pinball which has inadvertently defined us from the beginning. We never meant to be the ‘punk rockers’ of pinball, it just sort of happened that way because we were always just simple pinball guys at fun pinball gatherings. In hindsight, we should have just kept that going and worked with it through the end. So here we go, as loud and clear as I can: I am not a manufacturer, I am a pinball designer. I am not a business man, I am a life-long pinhead and over-dedicated arcade rat."

I feel awful for those who have money invested in this fool. I'm pretty sure he had it in his head to try and grind these games out and that Fox would just ignore it.

Ted, is your pitchfork sharp enough yet?

That's an excellent point!! I wish Pinball News had tried to get that answer out of him because as I've repeatedly noted I cannot find any company registered in Michigan by Kevin!

So, Whysnow vehemently defended a criminal while simultaneously vilifying the people trying to reveal the whole mess to the people who paid. More disturbing is everyone who is out money on this deal. What a bummer. Here's hoping that they at least get a portion of their money back.

Ha! There's a whole paragraph for Whysnow. LOL

The heighway "save the project" bit just sounds like spin to justify the delay in informing the victims. Save tge project my ass.....

The meat of the supplemental from the "anonymous group":

LIES:
Kevin had a license that was “small” and/or “inexpensive”.
Kevin had license limitations that limited or prevented promotion.
Kevin had a license that expired.
Kevin had a license that ended up incomplete, weak, or had “issues”
Kevin dug out his “license” and discovered he “didn’t have what he thought”
Kevin had “issues with his license” that are “being addressed”.

TRUTH:
Kevin NEVER had an actual license for ANYTHING on Predator.
At any time. From day one.
Of any scale, scope, or cost. Not a cent paid to anyone.
Of course, yes: Before he took investor money.
Knowingly. Planned that way. Simply skipped the entire process. Period.
His plan was to attempt to build 250 Predators, license-less for all IP used.
Save/keep the license money. No approval processes, complete freedom.
Play the extremely good odds that Fox (and others) will simply never find out.
Completely hide the project after selling it, to eliminate risk of ever getting caught.

Please let that sink in. Read it again if necessary. The utter worst-case scenario assumed under the “License-Gate” controversy, was actually the true case. No problems or issues… no licenses AT ALL… and to Kevin’s dismay, he DID get caught.

People assumed there would be no way possible that any pinball creator or business, especially a bro as “nice” as Kevin Kulek, would have the brass balls and/or stupidity to risk a million dollars of other peoples’ money on actually building 250 licensed-themed pinball machines, without a license, hide it all for safety, and simply PRETEND to have complete unincumbered rights to it all…

But yes. Yes. Yes, it IS possible. It just happened.

It's really, really shitty that we all could've had a much easier out with PayPal if this super secret information was shared with us months ago.

Not many people on Pinside will put up with the truth!

Wow. Just wow. Worse than I imagined. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was naive. But asking for everyone to pay AFTER he received the C&D is outrageous.

Heighway should not touch this.

Heighway has washed his hands of this (can't blame him) so any bullsh*t email from Kevin better have the words 'Here is your refund' in them.

i wonder if Kevin's wife paid cash for that new house of hers ?
financial protection through "Primary Residence" safety.

Dear "Anonymous Group": Please investigate if Kevin skipped the whole process for even registering a corporation of any type!! I cannot find one which means this absolutely opens Kevin up to being sued personally which I think people would want to do to try and recover more of their money back.

My heart goes out to all who are invested in this project....what a mess. Earlier in this thread, it was debated if this dude was a crook or just ignorant. After reading all of this - seems like it's both.

Yup after reading this my hunch is right. He was planning on building almost a million dollars worth of machines and hope to that FOX would never catch on.

Sorry guys, I'm sick and I have no "skin" involved. I'm used to these sort of things coming from the online poker world. I've seen scams and misdealings in the past four years go on for millions, and sadly most people don't get their money back and the scammer gets very little punishment. Hopefully the community uses this as a lesson about investing in start up. The preorder model from a boutique is pretty much dead.

Hope there is a way for a name to come along and salvage this project and get back some of your money.

Great, just great.

(typed a whole lot of venom and then just hit DELETE). Kevin, you have one chance to make this even partially right - GIVE BACK THE MONEY; all of it, not partially. Sell you car, your house, your boat whatever you have to make this right. You willingly stole money from people.

I hope this is the magic bullet that kills pre-order once and for all. I know it does for me.

Fucking this.