I don't have any money in this game. I'm here to find out what the hell is going on, like many of you all.

It would be great if kevin would tell us, but it looks like martin or aurich will have to clear the air. Why it hasn't been done yet is beyond me

At this point even Rudy wants his money back from the FH 2.0 preorder!

Nibbles, I would try contacting Paypal. They may look into it since they are looking into mine (my request went through my CC company though. Always use a CC going through Paypal for extra protection.

what.jpeg

THANKS FOR THE TIP TODAY!

What really sucks was your payment was funded by your bank account and not a credit card. Even harder for a charge back. I looked mine up, I paid with a partial paypal balance and about $4200 was put on a credit card. Calling my credit card company tomorrow.

But your also not being very aggressive towards those who play a wait and see approach.

so ....... is it boobs time yet?

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

I only wish Kevin's Magic paint worked half as well...

Edit she deserves two..

Your right about that Rob. Look deeper.

So many potential lies in this video........These guys were on a one way track right off the cliff, there was no fall back plan. This dude Kevin is smart in all the wrong ways......

Amazing how a bank just throws their hands up and says "welp...", whereas if I used the same banks CC they would stop just short of resurrecting a dead relative to find someone and get the money back.

Nice. Body paint is a favorite... one of the best things to come out of SI in a while...

do it.jpg

Well you have to remember that there were plenty of people that opted out and in the process someone from the waitlist took their place and sent in their deposit. So if it is true there was a C&D money was absolutely taken after.

I've noticed this also and not just in this thread. A certain individual has openly celebrated the theft of Nucore. It's like saying to someone, "Hey I saw the guy who stole your car the other day. He's really enjoying it!! hahahaha."

So yes. It does happen and yes I agree the individuals who do it need to seek help.

SHUTUP_BACK_MONEY.JPG

^^^ Well played!

Has anyone actually talked with Kevin in the past week?

Nucor might be a bit of an ironic example here.

The Nucor situation reminds me a bit of the scene from Pirate of Silicon Valley when Jobs starts whining that Gates stole from Apple only to be schooled by Gates when he calls out Apple for stealing from Xerox....

I understand what you are saying, but I think a lot of what you are seeing is backlash for what is happening to our Hobby. Preorders and upfront funding for games is a bad sign. Many pinsiders were warned by other pinsiders and many where told to shut up. Trusting people is one thing, but trusting people with thousands of dollars to build a machine with 10's of thousand moving parts is another.......especially when they have never done it before. Many would call that delusional. The funny thing is, there are many people here that I believe have the brains to pull this off, but they are so successful in their profession that they would never consider it........It's funny that they are so trusting of individuals with half their business sense.

I've just been correcting people who clearly misunderstand the situation.

I've been pretty aggressive towards Kevin. He's the damn ringleader of "wait and see." DAMMIT KEVIN!!!

Of all the emails Kevin is personally responding to "in the order they were received", it's amazing that there is not one Pinsider here who has gotten a response yet?

possibly he is still on dial-up?

Only we stole nothing. That will be proven.

I wonder if the SKITB paypal account is still up and running? If there were any sense of financial shenanigans by paypal as reported to them from other paypal customers, I would think they would shut down the service on that account?

Neither did Apple- according to them.

Fair point though, I guess we wait for the result of the lawsuit for the details....

And now I'm reporting you to the moderators. Told you to stop screwing with quotes.

I don't see any reason for Kevin to be contacting anyone on the list individually unless it is to do a paypal refund. Any other correspondence should be applicable to anyone in on the pre-order. Only the amount of money involved can be different (and maybe if you want it back or not). But any correspondence should go to all of us at once so we know what he is doing. I don't think he is really emailing anyone, just using this as another stall tactic. But if anyone does get an email I would love to hear about it and be proved wrong about him stalling. But I don't have much hope for that now as so much time as passed since he made that statement.

I have been reading this thread with interest as most are. I don't have any "skin" in the game nor know anybody involved. From all accounts with everyone that knows Kevin he doesn't seem like a bad guy - just someone that got in over his head. He apparently made bad decision after bad decision but it seems like he always thought he could pull it off. Listening to the podcast he thought he had a liscense and when he found out he didn't he probably thought he could obtain the right one. Reading what Aaron from fast pinball said he is trying to work out the best possible solution. Stop reminding the pre-order people about the most dire scenario. They already know. If it were my friends and family that were involved I would discuss the situation with them if they wanted to and let it go. I would not keep reminding them constantly of their decision and pointing out the most negative outcome.

... I haven't changed any quotes wtf are you on about?

Well put. Thank you.
Seems to be quite a plethora of different views of what's going on. Myself included, we will see soon one way or another.

He also said a lot of other shit that was shown to be untrue, most recently the fact that he would reply to the people emailing him or people asking for refunds. His word means nothing until he starts refunding people that want out, until then, he's a complete liar.

It is time

Probably part of the reason why refunds took so long is because the money was moved out of paypal and into a personal/business account. Moving around large sums of money probably throws flags at paypal, he probably moved it out of paypal as fast as he could. Would allow him more freedom and less accountability/traceability.

As awful as sending him more money sounds, might be worth sending a buck to see what happens...

There's probably no response as whatever strategy he had in his head when he sent the email out evaporated immediately when it was not received well and got tons / majority of people sending in refund requests. Hopefully he's working on the new strategy where everyone gets refunded % on the dollar (he may honestly not know how to do that fairly yet). Presuming PayPal hasnt locked the account down which would be some other wrinkle he has to deal with.. But he should be up front about that

You can send money to any email address through paypal. It doesn't have to be signed up for an account.

Reread my previous post, seemed you misquoted, but your just being, well, a something or other.

If the associated paypal account was suspended or locked, wouldn't it get kicked back?

Congratulations, you're an <edited>.

edit:
RareHero beat me to it on the congrats, and said it better than me:

So is this a reasonable timeline everyone can agree on, giving Kevin the benefit of the doubt that he had good intentions to begin with? Feel free to fill in any blanks I am missing, or correct anything I have wrong (sources: Emails, PBN, Internet archive):

June 2011: Announced intention to build predator after getting license approval, which apparently was fair use guidelines and not a commercial license.

March 2012: first whitewoods shown, pre-order list is established under the "No money required until production" promise. I got my number 112 5-10-2012.

November 2012: $250 deposites were requested from everyone He also announced many deals with contractors guaranteeing the low price, guaranteeing the final price wouldn't rise. Benefit of the doubt states that he just had no idea what an actual build would cost beyond the parts.

Feb 2013: I was told by Steven Woods, their "Build Manager", told me the code was 100% finished and tested. They later bailed on TPF because, as Kevin told me, "the game is just going through too many changes right now to get it back together in time".

April 2013: Game shows at MPE, art is revealed, Virtual pin announced as cab mfg. Also that month, incentives are announced to try to get people to pre-pay up to the full cost of the machine.

August 2013: I had moved from build spot 99 to 83, so 16 drop outs over the last year or so in the first 100, probably due to the $250 deposit.

October 2013: Disastrous showing at Expo. Duck hunt and sonic side projects were shown. Website was scrubbed of any mention of Predator. This disclaimer was added to their website:

"Absolutely none of the items featured on this site or any of its affiliates are for commercial sale or use unless explicitly stated otherwise.
...
All images and likenesses used on this site are and remain copyrights of their respective owners."

OBVIOUSLY this is the time the C&D was issued.

Nov. 2013: I asked for my refund, it took multiple emails, excuses about junk folders, and about a month to get my deposit back.

Dec. 2013: Aaron (klumpp) has been removed from the website.

Feb. 2014: Mission complete video, deadline set for first $3k payment.

June 2014: Deadline for full payment. Funhouse 2.0 announced.

July 2014: Game 2, EOD announced.

Dec. 2014: Announcement of bi-weekly emails, Also claimed License was fine.

March 2015: Email 1: Certain parties threaten my very existence, major issues need handling immediately.

Email 2: Project not imploding, Everything moving along despite certain nefarious parties.

Email 3: Apology for silence, I can't build them myself, unnamed experience manufacturer is being contacted, the License wasn't what I thought it was. contact me right away for refunds.

Email 4: sorry, overwhelmed with emails, responding in order we received, will get to your's soon.

Aaron (fast) also revealed that Kevin read to him what he presented as the terms of a license, which Aaron said sounded more like the terms of fair use, in the last 2 weeks.

To me it seems impossible that Kevin's license realization only came in the last 2 weeks.

Well....the Shockers beat KU.....

wichita-state-cheeleaders1.jpg

wichita-state-cheerleaders.jpg

101614madness_fs21.JPG

Save your money dude. Kevin shouldn't get a single cent more from anybody. Ever.