Yup im not giving mine up ether. Ill ride it out till the end.

Actually this is what you should have been quoting:
"Seems like lots of people getting caught up in pinside and letting themselves get riled up by a handful of naysayers with no skin in the game.

Yeah the communication sucks, but we have seen enough to know things are progressing.
Settle down, enjoy the turkey holiday, and take a deep breath while you think about all the things you are thankful for in life (including the ability to even afford taking a risk and buy into a startup pinball manufacturers dream).

By all accounts a few games should be delivered soon and then you will likely get lots of info about those games. I will say it again, as soon as I get my personal game any and all Predator owners further back in the line are welcome to come see and evaluate. Fly in and we will make a weekend out of pinballin and drinking!"

All of that sounds like something a con man would say. I am not saying he is a con man, but basically this is precisely what a confidence man would say, so I thought it was pretty funny considering the situation; trying to make the situation humorous and change the subject, etc.

You quoted the incorrect text of what I was referring to. And I have a preorder, so I "can" be a naysayer. Heck, I went and played the game in Louisville last year. I drove up specifically to do it.

So yes, you do have it wrong. It's just funny hearing someone else say what he said, that was the entire point, which is why I pointed out the actual problems with the lack of communication from SKit-B vs just what someone else said about that, merely stating the humor of it.

I had a bunch of likes on that post, clearly everyone else understood that I wasn't meaning I was calling the other guy a con artist, how much sense would that make? lol

Joining the club: I am sticking with Skit-B too...

I can't even get a reply from them now. Now I get the feeling they think I'm a mug who doesn't need to be told anything. That doesn't sit well with me at all. So much so, I may have to paypal claim my entire payment should this continue.

Depends on when you paid...45-90 days; I think Paypal boosted it recently to 180...but there is no way most people will get anything back if something happened. I am sure these will still come out but you know...communication.

You can go to the 3:59 mark in the video to just watch the live battle.

Don't expect things to improve.... why?

Look no further than 2 posts above.... folks are bragging about their intention to "stick it out" no matter how poorly they are treated as paying customers.

With enough folks that that, why bother to go to all the trouble of having decent customer service?

PT Barnum is smiling....

Again so many rumors and no "real" update

atleast lowepg is an equal opportunity hater. WOZ got delivered so I suppose he needs something new to occupy his time allocated to bashing on pinball manufacturers.

Guys relax. The games are being made. Yes the lack of comms sucks, but bitching everyday on here isn't going to change that. Anyone leave near Skit-B? Maybe do everyone a solid and pay them a visit.

It would clear up a lot of smoke and misdirection if there were a few CURRENT pics (in-focus) showing progress, right? Last pic, was a month ago and quite generic, so if they are under way, there should be a room with a half dozen games in various stages of completeness. That should take 3 minutes. Next an email explaining their bizarre absence from public communication. I'll allow an hour for this because I want to read something well thought out and articulate.

We all agree but let's face it. Not happening. Everyday people come on and keep asking for it. Think it's time to find another way to get answers for people. Nobody lives near Skit-B, knows Kevin?

Well you know what it is, everyone that complains is basically told to "be patient" and "this is a hobby", etc. I've heard that since KLOV arcade people sell stuff/repair stuff, etc.

If you are selling something, you have to stick to it. Especially if you advertise wares.

This is obviously a business. No communication = Customer Service issue #1.

I have people flip out on me sometimes at the arcade because we basically are no bullshitters, but we don't rip anyone off, we are helpful, and we will communicate with the customer and treat them professionally.

If people think "no" customer service is better than what we do then I am not sure what to think, lol

I don't even know what to say or really think about it all.

I'm in the same boat with Jpop but at least he has a blog and you can reach him.

It's disheartening, pathetic, BS and anything else you can think of. It's a disgrace that he's taken all that money, and changed the payment plan btw back in June, a rush to get $3k in and then radio silence.

I hope this is all a big joke and he delivers a great pin.

But when you set up a customer service email and don't ever respond, wtf!

The irony about people saying that they are sticking it out is that they don't have a choice at this point anyway.

Believe me, SkitB isn't freely giving out refunds to people who are paid in full if they ask.

Pure speculation, but I would not be surprised one bit to hear that buyers get their pins as promised.
Whether they are licensed is another matter.
I can't make sense of any other explanation.

Hmmm, if you mean I call bullshit when I see bullshit, I guess you're right....

However, in retrospect SkitB has made JJP look like a model of customer communication!

I get that its easier to attack the messenger, but it doesn't diminish the fact that only a fool would think things are "ok" with Predator....

The fact that pinside was used to perpetrate this farce should be an insult to everyone here. However, I understand that some here would rather everyone keep quiet in the hopes that they will still get their (potentially) unlicensed machine before the truth is known.

Keep denying and attacking the critics.... but Im confident that either:
1. Skit-B is the single worst customer service operation EVER, or
2. There's a run on the bank and they are just stalling everyone, or
3. They f'ed something up seriously with the license, or
4. All of the above

No other scenarios even remotely make sense.

Lowepg, do you have one on order also? Seems like you either did or presently do?

Rai is a weird stalker

So I'll ask you once more Hilton:
Where is there any evidence of this?

This is a very silly question IMHO.

The game has been in public and actively marketed for over 2 years. The makers have stated it is licensed. We have seen photos now of numerous cabinets all ready to go with the name plastered all over them. Games are being made with the likeness and rights all over them. Do you really think the rights holder would be allowing this (especially since some pinheads have actively contacted FOX to try and "break the big story" so they obviously know about it)?

What more do you really need or deserve?

Pretty sad that Jared has gone to FOX to specifically inquire about the license. If SkitB does not have the proper/full license then he will be the culprit behind this whole downfall. Gotta love when someone so self-important takes it upon themselves to contact Fox and try and stir up trouble for someone making 250 pinballs.

Do you go ask Stern or JJP or PPS to provide proof of license for each game?

I don't think anyone questions the game having the Predator license (all of us who followed this from the beginning believe they acquired that part right out of the gate). I think the question is whether they have the rights to Arnold.

The reason many people question this point is Dark Horse could never get rights to his character (his likeness was less the issue than those to his character, it was the character itself that Arnold had the rights too per my memory) for their comic books and that comic book line was national and popular.

I've seen enough pictures now that I personally believe games are being assembled and will be shipped. Regardless of the IP issues with Arnold, I think the games are being made - just my personal opinion which is worth what you paid for it though.

Dude?!?! Really?!?! Why do you constantly repeat the same bull$hit every 3rd post? You've voiced the same opinion like 100 times on this thread and its getting old. We get it, you have nothing better to do than $hit talk on here. You remind me kinda of my 4th oldest sister

Whysnow is right guys. I work with IPs all the time and no way these guys are showing up at shows without a license. Especially with a product for sale. I honestly think skit B is doing one thing and one thing only - fucking with the haters. Think about it. You know your game is about to ship by January and all these people saying no way you lost the license. So you remove all mentions of the game, go dark and that haters all start chest bumping. You even go quiet on preorder people becaus you know when the game hits they will still be in. Then boom you drop this thing on the haters like an Alabama Tick. Nuke them all. That's what I'd do.

Actually, I think lots of people question whether they have the licence.
Pure speculation, but a licensing issue is a very logical explanation as to why you can't find a trace of evidence of the Predator pinball machine anywhere.

Dunno about the rest of you guys, but if this were my company, I'd be proud enough to be trumpeting my new pin-baby on at least one webpage for everyone to see! Sure, maybe the site goes down for maintenance once in awhile but it appears more as though all evidence of Pred has been hidden/removed.

One more time: I honestly hope that all buyers receive their pins.
I also hope that someone can prove me wrong.
So... Who can provide a lick of evidence that Skit B has the licence?
(And no, photos of games being made is not proof. Anyone can make a game without a licence.)

Edit: I've posted the challenge and made my point. I won't be posting again and again to stir things up. Good luck to all involved in this $----storm.

What's the point in this? They are all sold. I really think they are going dark on purpose and not because there's an issue.

For personal use yes; but its a different story when you sell them to the public like at a Pinball Expo or on the largest Pinball Forum.

I think it's possible that Skit B thought they were going to get the licence, started down the road and collected money, did a lot of work on the pin, and then something fell through. Now they have a whole lot of parts, can't refund everyone's $, and are probably great guys at heart (everyone seems to say they are).
So what do you do at that point?

Exactly what's being done. Quietly.

I hope you're right though Dude. I don't want to see anyone lose cash on this. The whole concept of new pinball start-ups is awesome and great for all of us. I do wish Skit B well.

We know the license is fine - once again prove me wrong - innocent till proven guilty applies here.

Haters gonna hate! I love it - especially those not in on the machine like whats his name a few posts up. It means they have another agenda when they voice the same unsubstantiated claims over and over. And, frankly, even old heads look like raw idiot noobs when they whine about a machine they have zero interest in. So...I am all for the dummies showing their true colors so we all have a clear picture of them and can view future posts through those glasses tinted with the knowledge that they are just hating.

Seriously there are a couple guys in this thread who just post the same negatives over and over and over. Clearly self absorbed, self centered and with nothing to add. But hey, it IS entertaining to watch grown men make fools of themselves. At least that will never change

I was sent a ban warning several days ago for the very subject matter everyone including at least one moderator is discussing.

If memory services, the game is using assets from the movie that you would not have if you didn't have the license (e.g. in a format that you could not to just rip out of the film). I'm pretty sure there are calls outs that don't have the original sound track and sound effects behind them.

I see no issue with Kevin not trying to appease those on pinside, that is a battle you can never win. I think all of the manufactures have found keeping it to a minimum, while not popular, is probably the best course of action.

However, I would like to see Skit-b be more responsive to emails around refunds. I don't know what the policy/agreement was at sign-up, so I don't know whether folks are entitled to refunds and at what time frame. Regardless, they did set up an email address, and while I don't expect them to respond immediately I do believe they should be responding within a few business days with at least an acknowledgment. Of course I am now going on 5 weeks waiting on a response from PPS (having sent four emails), so, take that for what it is worth.

Hope not...sounds like the worst business strategy they could have come up with. Strike this outcome from the list.

Agree with this post Rosh

I just recently exited the project after having one of the earliest spots - #9 production #14.

That being said, I do not believe there is a license issue. My opinion, I do think like all pinball start ups it's turning out much harder than first anticipated. Whether it's suppliers, waiting on parts, or challenges with assembly line planning - this would be common for any of the new pinball companies. Even industry vets have run into these challenges (well, exception AMH).

I agree, Kevin doesn't have to appease all those on pinside - it's a no win situation. He'll never make all of us happy. Only when the game ships will some on pinside finally put down the pitchforks.

However, the communication and refund situation with owners is abysmal. My hypothesis, based on some elements of fact, is that Skit B planned to create an "owners only" experience. Pull down all video in the public domain, create owners only website to follow production, and at Expo only verified owners get to play - a special club. Sort of following JPOP approach. Unfortunately, they failed to deliver on any of it and made the situation a whole lot worse with owners. Add to that successful TBL marketing blitzkrieg right when EOD was to be unveiled and I think Kev just gave up on the whole make owners feel special thing. I think there is a conflict of identity. Will they be a boutique or with EOD were they planning to cater to a more mass Stern segment?? Right now holding on to catering only to Predator fanboys. The refund communications are to be ashamed of. Say what you will of JJP - they answered emails, phone, and delivered on refund policy. Not my place to speculate, just unacceptable business practice when return policy stated up front.

I was, and still am, very disappointed in the main feature of the painted reveal Predator not working and no acknowledgement to that fact (to owners). There was a tent two booths over at Expo we could have coffin carried it over to prove it worked. The fact no one did and now announce a new lighting kit (which is cool btw) leaves one to conclude a fail. Then just tell owners, you tried and need to cut bait on it. We get it - it happens. But for those that believe it's not being shown so to delight owners when they get the machine - with respect I call BS. I digress, as now I sound like a broken record on this one.

All this being said, I SINCERELY hope all 250 Predators get made and owners are super happy. I hope Skit B learns from this experience and improves communications at least with owners - and acknowledges mistakes along the way. I also hope they rebuild the bridge with non-customer collectors who are hoping for their success but dismayed at the lack of even general industry communications.

drops mic...

That's not true at all.

I've gone out of my way to keep quiet in this thread and not say anymore. I've been quiet for weeks now. I've been deliberately avoiding responding to any posts you make or even participating in threads that you wonder in to. Now, you are dragging me into this again when I have not even posted in regards to the subject in weeks.

I have not done anything with Fox. I don't plan on it. Even if I had, I don't want to be the guy who's posts sinks the ship so I would keep the info to myself. I'm not even on the list for predator, but when I was originally given terrible information about this project I felt like keeping to myself was the equivolant of assisting a crime. What I've realized is that if I say anything or not, whatever is going to happen is going to happen.

At this point all that can be done is to wait. In time, we will know a lot more than we do now.

I sincerely hope that all 250 games are made and shipped and I wish any pinball company the best of luck. Their success helps the entire hobby progress.

Kindly leave me out of this. Thank you.

-

in case you need help...
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You said it all. Nothing left to do now but wait.

What? There's a game being made based on Predator?

Can we start this all over again?

You are saying that you have negative information about this project that will sink the ship? WTF man?!?

If you let me and everyone else get burned while you are hiding information that you have... Then you will be forever remembered here on Pinside as the guy who let the pinheads get burned. It will be your fault. Totally your fault. You could have saved us, but you were too frightened of strong words on a forum to help, nay SAVE your fellow hobbyist? Please tell us that is not the case.

To be fair, that isn't what he is saying at all.

Kanada - WTF dude?! You are now in this thread and the Jpop one just trying to stir the pot. You do this in a strange way each time, seemingly looking innocent, and never getting aggressive, but it always results in ridiculous amounts of drama and tangents that you appear to thrive on, like a 5 year old that needs attention.

There is enough mess here and in the jpop thread without you throwing more fuel on the fire.

WhySnow,
I can see that you're really pulling for SkitB, and that's cool, but you have to admit...
The fact that Skit B has approx $750,000 and has "gone dark" is not good in any way, shape, or form.
Fortunately, many people have said these guys are "good people" and we've seen evidence of cabinets being made so it seems as though the games are being made.
As I've said before, it's my opinion that buyers will get their pins as promised. I hope I'm right.

Still, you keep echoing excuses for Skit B, sticking up for them, and basically insulting anyone who's not 100% behing them. You have to stop, Man. So far as I'm aware, no pinball company (start-up or otherwise -like Stern or JJP) has listed a pin for sale publicly, and then removed ALL associated info on that pin. That, is not how a normal company operates and there's SOMETHING behind this all.

I was thinking about this yesterday and it occurred to me that licensing has to be quite complex.
Maybe they do have the licence for Predator, but maybe it's Schwarzenegger's quotes or something else, relatively minor that's to blame. Either way, until SkitB can once again publicly show that there's such thing as a Predator pin that's being produced, you're just fanning flames and making things worse.

What does suck about forums in general, and especially this thread, is that we aren't very sympathetic to one another when we post, and/or become Internet tough guys. Just like reading an email, you can't hear emotion, and sometimes comments are taken personally when they shouldn't be.
(I'm not pointing fingers at anyone and I am to blame sometimes as well)
Just trying to state that it's too bad a thread like this has to twist itself into near personal attacks. This is a great example of a topic that could be discussed logically, that might then help some people decide on whether to ask for a refund, or stick it out.

Lastly, have you any update on when you're getting yours? (Still by Xmas?)
That's probably the best proof anybody has that all is well.
Either way, if that's the case, there's a little over 3 weeks til we see one produced which will likely answer all the questions out there.

I think you misread. He is saying even if he had contacted Fox he would keep the terrible information to himself. He is saying that if he contacted Fox he would get terrible information then hide it. the CLEAR implication is that Fox has terrible information. Prove me wrong, because that's how it reads.

Reality > only been 5 months currently since I gave them 3k. This is NOT a long time frame by most people's sense of time. It is not a long time for me.

My game will get here soon enough.

Yes, the lack of communication sucks and I agree that it is bad for business. However, I think there is likely a more logical reason for removal of all things from the website. Probably has something to do with the license restrictions like "no online advertising". License agreements are complicated things as we have all seen many times over in the pinball world.

Hoping games get delivered soon and then all will come to light.

If that was ever the case, I'd be blaming whomever took my money telling me otherwise. I don't personally believe this to be true, btw, just that their business practices stink. I've said it before, I don't think a business that didn't communicate with its customers could exist outside the world of pinball, I know I would be out of business myself.

He has sent PMs to a handful of pinsiders stating all sorts of doom and gloom scenarios that he claims knowledge of concerning skitB.

Are you kidding? Dude if you know my car is about to blow up you better tell me or I am blaming YOU as well as who put it there. Surely you get that ? This is a hobby forum. We participate in a hobby together. We look out for each other (see mad amusements thread for confirmation). To hide information that could "save us" or "sink them" is the same as being involved. And would be deplorable.

Listen it would be easy for Kevin to just post "Hey everyone games are being built, relax nothing to worry about" that's all I would need. I'm in till the end, I mean everyone has a breaking point and I remember all this happening before then the video with rules and gameplay and back to silence, then an email with info and request for what I wanted on my plaque, then silence. Its nothing new but just one simple sentence would go so far right now to easing the tension. I sent SkitB an email stating this last week, I hope Kevin responds. I just want the game and would be hurt more by the fact that the project fails and I don't get a Predator pinball machine than I'm out 3K.

Kevin just recently sent an email out to all owners. It's in this thread.