Kevin is not a victim.
We do not know who is sending those emails/etc. A person or many people.
We do not know if what was written in those emails is true, just guesses, or anything at all.
We have seen what happens to people who post concerning questions on Pinside about Skit-B, Kevin & the Predator pin project, which could explain why someone (or people) chose to use an anonymous email to send communications instead of posting here. right?

And that would be bad advice, especially given the obvious conflict of interest for doing so. I'm sure that the State Bar would take huge interest in something like that. I have a hard time believing that a lawyer would be stupid enough to recommend that he keep the money so the lawyer can get paid. Kevin could go to the State Bar, sooner or later, and that attorney (and possibly the entire firm) would be in deep shit.

So...no.

We do not know if any of that is true.
Even if it was, it does not make Kevin a victim.

Nope. No excuse! If they really had information 6 months ago of genuine license issues then they could have genuinely been heroes by saying "i contacted fox at the email or phone number, they have not issued a pinball license for predator, i suggest you all get out now before fox brings lawsuit or mucks this up. Here is all the info call them for yourself to verify"

Instead they have purposefully obfuscated and lied to many people about the full details while still attempting to cause a lynch mob. The people puling these strings are not just simply trying to stop skitB, they are trying to make a point about ANY new pinball maker. They WANT pinheads to be hurt and left holding the bag while at the same time trying to remove themselves from the activities they have been doing. Ask yourself why they have gone about things this way...

We really need Kevin to explain what he "thought" his license was. When he said "no problem" for Arnold in it, who told him that? Sames goes for all the assets.

I do believe he "thought" he was good to go, but how the hell did that ever come to be, and on what planet?

Where things get darker is what were his motivations with scrubbing the internet, and stopping to mention the game. Who told him to do that? Where did that advice come from and how did he think he was still good to go for selling 250 machines at that time?

Kevin is not going to battle Fox, or spend any money fighting Fox.
Fox is not going to waste a dime on Kevin, they sent him a letter that scared the shit out of him and that was that.

I really hope he divides up the money and sends it back.

Good luck in the end,

Kevin will not get attorneys to work for free in a federal case like this.

He will have to pay them a gigantic retainer, because they know he won't have a penny left after the case goes to trial.

It's not like getting some "family attorney" to represent you in court for $10,000.

No, it makes the preorder people the victims!

IF kevin pulled crap then we got screwed once.
IF Mr. X pulled more crap then they made sure we got screwed good.

The difference in the screwing is the intent behind it. Mr. X wants all preorder people to get screwed.
kevin obviously has wanted to build pinballs at all costs and not screw the preowners. stupid and screwing people is much different than malicious intent to create as much destruction as possible.

As i said, ask yourself why Mr X opted to go about stuff in this manner.

Those secret emails do not say anything like that....

someone was asking about "business entities" earlier...
Here's some info below, but there could be variances based on each state law. this is not legal or financial advice.

You can file a DBA (doing business as) in your County/Parish. It can have any "unique" name within that Count/Parish. Revenue/Costs/Margins/Taxes can reference that business DBA, but it all funnels to the individual in the end for tax filing.

You can register a business entity in any State (ie: tons of companies in other states actually file in Delaware). That business entity name can be anything "unique". (doesn't have to include Skit-B, Predator, Kevin, or other words we might know about)

You can register a business entity with the federal government (IRS) to get an EIN (employment identification number) for filing federal taxes. That can be a "unique" business entity name.

So, if looking for Skit-B business entity existence, consider trying...
a) The County the business exists within, but who knows what that business name might be.
b) The State the business exists within, but it could be registered in any State & who knows what that name is.
c) The IRS, but same issue with business name.

Relax ladies. Kevin is probably just waiting to ship until the code is complete so he doesn't get skewered on pinside.

maybe they're scaredy-cats ?
i dunno
a lot of people seem to make decisions based on fear instead of value.

totally agree

Agreed completely. I can only guess that he scrubbed the internet when he knew there were some issues but did so to try and comply with whatever he thought he needed to do to keep fox happy, not to willfully lie or deceive. It is still my understanding that Fox has only recently put effort into what is small beans to them. In effect the seriousness of the IP issues likely only became apparent to kevin recently.

What he thought and when he thought it along with reasoning behind actions like scrubbing the web are important when establishing intent.

I real does.

What in hades are you guys going on about? MR X? Secret emails? Com'n.

Oh yeah, if you didn't believe them then why didn't you call fox and verify for yourself? instead, shrouded in complete ignorance you shouted them down and called them evil bastards.

You are worse than them because you were wrong. You defended criminal activity over the truth. You implied that anyone who believed there was no license was an idiot and that they should get out of the thread.

I hate shouting into an abyss so I definitely need to add you to my ignore list to save my sanity.

Again: so?

You keep saying this. What's the point? Nobody is saying Kevin is going to get an attorney to work for free. The issue is whether he is better off by refunding as much of the money as soon as he can or not...even if that means not having money to pay an attorney later.

The answer to that question in my opinion is: yes, he is. Even if that means he won't have money left to pay a lawyer for some lawsuit filed by Fox. Worse thing that can happen under those circumstances? Fox gets a large judgment, Kevin files Bankruptcy and starts his life over again. Keeping the money can lead to worse consequences.

yeah... that's a sh!tty move for sure. but, wish Kevin hadn't been in that situation to begin with... if what that email says is true. which... honestly... i'm not really sure it is. I don't know, but my gut tells me Kevin probably did have a license, but it needed some changes. Maybe i'm just hoping, but it just seems coocoo to do all this without that important initial step at least being taken.

I've been speculating on some hypothesized outcomes from some third hand information. According to my calculations, which are all based on ballpark assumptions overheard in conversations about unrelated cost analysis, we could be in for one heck of a ugly legal situation... Assuming my complete lack of understanding of federal, and civil, and international law is grounds for a...

I've looked up several things on Wikipedia, plus I know a guy who used to be a lawyer, and I run a non-profit business... Though truthfully, it is not intended as such. I simply don't make any money.

Here's what I know.

Kevin actually is a hardcore pinhead, who wanted nothing more than to make a Kick-Ass pinball machine. Unfortuantely, when he called the number on the back of the Kick-Ass DVD, they were not interested... I kid.

Kevin was a well meaning guy who got in WAY over his head. I feel bad for everybody here. Certainly everybody who put money on the line to support a guy with an idea, but I also feel bad for Kevin. His dreams are crashing down all around him as we speak.

He was never equipped to make this happen, and now that it's falling apart, he's even less equipped to manage it.

I hope for the best possible outcome for all involved. I hope everybody who put money in can get the lion share of it back, and I hope Kevin can get out of this mess and move on. Anybody who's met the guy knows immediately that he had no I'll intentions. Naive? Yes. Scam? No way!

Let's hope cooler heads prevail. There is a solution here that doesn't involve massive legal battles, and protracted headaches.

Dude took in allot of money.
Then nothing happened.

I agree. But how he's choosing to handle things, the decisions he is making RIGHT NOW will determine how he'll go down in pinball history.

If there is anyway to eject, and pay people most of their money back, he's got to do it. Vid's explanation of why he'll need legal retainers notwithstanding.

People paid a lot of money to a dude who had done nothing up until that point.

Dude did nothing.

People are pissed.

(edit) People can't understand why they are pissed.

Maybe he did.

Maybe he pulled out of Predator when Kevin said, "give me the $$$$ or your out". Maybe he wanted back in and Kevin said no dice. Maybe that infuriated him and created his vendetta, which led to him repeatedly calling Fox, which led to the C&D.

On the other hand, Maybe he was interested in pre ordering Predator or was a $250 preorder person. When Kevin said, "give me the $$$$ or your out" ,Maybe he had concerns ab the license and starting sleuthing. Which led to him repeatedly calling Fox, which led to the C&D.

All I know is that there are a lot of maybe's and which's.

ynm.jpg

which....errr.jpg

Kevin should just refund what he has ASAP.......It makes the most sense and will protect him the most, anyone who says otherwise is clueless.

here's a crazy conspiracy theory...

What if Kevin was the one sending those bizarre anonymous emails out as a distraction & an excuse for why things fell apart. (brain-grenade) hehehehehe
Since we don't know who sent them, we can't rule out Kevin/etc as the source either.
What if Kevin was secretly working with our epic friend in texas to create a PR smoke screen

We do have on record some of his past bizarre emails

Took money for a product he couldn't deliver? That's a scam.

Too bad game were not built while all this was happening .

For the record, Vid you are making no sense.........Rob is 1000% correct.

I hate this, post the fucking secret email then.
Secret email, 1st grade or 2nd.
No money (Kevin), Fox, lots of money.

You forgot the for selling pins with "no license" part.

here it is.
didn't want to be the one who posted it, but cat's out of the bag now...

do-u-like-me-1.jpg

Which case will FOX more likely pursuit further: a guy with close to $1 mil in the pocket or the same guy with nothing? Hmm, tough call..

Add...."the lions share of the money is gone"....just no way this could go on for so long without funds being depleted..$750k ( or whatever) may sound like a lot, but in a business startup ( especially ill fated ) it can evaporate in a heartbeat.....$$$ is only thing that fixes this...it's not fixed, hence, no money....can't be an clearer than that...and like vid said, no attorney will touch him without cash.

Wish I could think of a way for a win, but until he comes clean, can't even imagine....

Suppose he could dissolve ( depending on his corp status), become a silent partner w operations management agreement ( meaning he has no access to funds) and other manager take care of the money, until the company becomes solvent....that's with understanding that he can get an operations manager, has cash, and a product that is marketable ......bad feeling none of these exist ( especially the cash).

This has hurt a lot of people, and sadly, a lot of them don't have " skin" in this mess. I, for one, am just sick about it.....mark

No one is correct about whatever is going on until they find out what's going on. As a paid in full PRED buyer, I'm one of quieter ones here.

You guys are seeing conspiracies everywhere. Chill out my pin brothers til we get answers from those directly involved or their immediate contacts.

What do you guys think the family of 5 has been living off of the last couple years? Per that Wicca convention post, the wife doesn't work. How did they buy a house 4 months ago and why isn't his name on it? And some of you still cling to the hope this irrational person who hasn't made a good decision in a long time with regard to his customers is going to come to his senses and refund your money? Really?

If you can file a dispute with your CC company do it. I hope for a positive outcome for all of you.

Agreed...Underlord...I'm out.....can't read this stuff anymore...wish everyone w interest the best possible outcome...mark

We already did hear from Aaron. He is directly involved and by his own words knows everything that is happening in this project. Maybe you missed it. Go read page 70.

For real. All this bullshit on here about people not posting emails, and nobody's posted these "secret" emails yet.

Well, it's Saturday. So you're SOL.

PS: Hi, Kevin!

At least these theories are entertaining. It'd be better if I wasn't financially mired in it, but...

Btw, don't screw with my quotes. Against PS rules. I never called anyone lackeys!

That he never had a license to build predator is not a theory.

I wish Aaron was still participating in this thread, if only to shed some more light on the extent of the license involved. Has anyone actually read it? Please tell me this "license" for Predator is not simply based on a phone call to a Fox rep.

He already said Kevin basically had a letter describing the terms of fair use for people who do not have a license.

I get the feeling he wasn't using "non-profit" in the correct context. I think he was just saying that he wasn't really going to making any money on this venture...in the end it would be doing it for the love of it. I don't think he meant he had a non-profit organization like a charity or what have you.

BTW - it is mindblowing that Kevin hasn't shown up to make a statement yet. Cowardly.

Don't know and really neither do any of us. Not yet anyways.

Amazing the plethora of personalities that come out in a time of crisis.

Nothing shows a persons nature better than putting them in a tense situation.

Un-f%^king-believable. Just re-read Aaron's post and just cannot believe that's what he was saying, but it seems you're right.

That denial crap isn't going to fly anymore. Aaron said straight up that Kevin showed him the "license" he was talking about, and it was not in any way shape or form a license deal for manufacturing pinball machines. It was just information on how any person with no signed deal could use the likeness of predator.

If you are saying Aaron was flat out lying, then say that. Don't say "nobody knows," because that's bull plain and simple.