(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,269 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 days ago by Cobra99
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,540 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20181108-174321 (resized).png
Fife Appeal Sept 24 2018.pdf (PDF preview)
cat ooo 2.gif
7332539.attach (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 73 of 366.
#3601 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

And you just might have been responsible for causing people to stay in this much longer than they should (or would) have.

Did I cause you to stay in longer? Did I cause anyone to stay in longer?

Serious question. I keep hearing this but nobody has actually contacted me or said I am the reason they now are in this...

43
#3602 4 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

The weekend is here so we should not expect any information from SkitB until Monday

Bwhahhahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Tears are flowing down my face after reading that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I'm sure that Kevin will respond just as soon as the weekend is over!

The guy really deserves to have a nice relaxing weekend after all his hard work in responding to everyone's emails on a personal basis.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

21
#3603 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Did I cause you to stay in longer? Did I cause anyone to stay in longer?
Serious question. I keep hearing this but nobody has actually contacted me or said I am the reason they now are in this...

Come on man, you were far and away the biggest cheerleader here. Constantly telling everyone who was in on it to stick with it and that Kevin was a good guy who would find a way to get it done if you just gave him more time. You were afraid that if people started to bail early the whole thing would crumble. (Total paraphrasing).

#3604 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

It would be nice to have a preowners only discussion but unfortunately there is no way to even know who that is anymore.

There was an email sent out on 11/8/2012 by Kevin titled "Predator Pinball Pre-Owners Mailing List" and Kevin didn't figure out how to BCC yet so in the To: field is a list of all the Predator pre-orders people's email addresses at that time.

You could set up a private Facebook group or something much like what was done for Jpop and use this list of email addresses as a start.

#3605 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Regardless of how bad this situation currently is, it is pretty disgusting some of the posting of personal info and threats of vigilantly justice. Honestly sickens me more than a potential loss of game or money.

Right on. You can go about things in that fashion.

#3606 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Come on man, you were far and away the biggest cheerleader here. Constantly telling everyone who was in on it to stick with it and that Kevin was a good guy who would find a way to get it done if you just gave him more time. You were afraid that if people started to bail early the whole thing would crumble. (Total paraphrasing).

That does not answer the question.
Yes, i have been cheering this on from the start and have been vocal about the negative implications when others have been trying to instigate a run on the bank for 6 months.

However, you still have not answered the question. Did you stay in longer because of me?

23
#3607 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The light being shown on everything is not because of Kevin. It is because of this thread. Most recently, it was because Kevin sent out a mass email saying he was sitting at his computer responding to everyone. Because of the activity in this thread, that was exposed as another lie.
If everyone took the weekend off, and gave Kevin more time to do whatever it is that he's doing, none of the true story would be bubbling to the surface as it has.
The vigilante justice isn't the right path, but asking tough questions and analyzing the information that is available is exactly what should be going on here.

And it should be an example of why the dumb phrase of "if you got no skin in the game, why do you care?" should never be uttered again.

#3608 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And it should be an example of why the dumb phrase of "if you got no skin in the game, why do you care?" should never be uttered again.

Tru Dat.

#3609 4 years ago

This...^^^^^^ ultimately, this stuff affects us ALL...we are a nitchy hobby, with the vast majority just wanting survival of the game....all posts relevant, some insightful, as long as the personal bs left out.

#3610 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Since I want the game, i hope the sentiment is returned.

I get it, but if I received the game, I'd be disgusted every time I looked at it. It'd be a constant reminder of all this crap.

#3611 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And it should be an example of why the dumb phrase of "if you got no skin in the game, why do you care?" should never be uttered again.

The issue with that Rob is separating those that care and those that just want to flame every chance. I know they are two different people. But again its hard to tell and hard to deal with as someone in on a game.
The key to that statement is "care". There are core folks here who really do care.

12
#3612 4 years ago

Hindsight-funny-Star-Wars-quote.jpg
11
#3613 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That does not answer the question.
Yes, i have been cheering this on from the start and have been vocal about the negative implications when others have been trying to instigate a run on the bank for 6 months.
However, you still have not answered the question. Did you stay in longer because of me?

"Don't question this project! Don't question Kevin! All you people trying to ruin the project are the worst scum!" Also paraphrasing but that's basically what we take issue with... A "devoted to the end" attitude that loudly pronounces all people who think and question to be enemies. Sounds like politics...

#3614 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Hindsight-funny-Star-Wars-quote.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

lol. That made my Saturday.

#3615 4 years ago

So is this guy currently holding between $3K and $5K for about 200 collectors?

#3616 4 years ago

The one thing I still find confusing is how Skit-B could have ever been set up as a "nonprofit" as claimed (I think this should have raised additional red flags IMO). I'm reading the guidelines for the form 1023 (federal tax exemption) and I just don't see how a company that manufactures a product (and entertainment game no less) and sells that product can be accepted as a "nonprofit"? The fact that I still can't find any corporation registered in Michigan with anything remotely close to "Skit-B" (no "Skit-B", "Skit", "SkitB", or anything with the word pinball in it) still is troublesome as well in my mind.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/forming-nonprofit-corporation-michigan-36070.html

#3617 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

The issue with that Rob is separating those that care and those that just want to flame every chance. I know they are two different people. But again its hard to tell and hard to deal with as someone in on a game.
The key to that statement is "care". There are core folks here who really do care.

I don't think it's that hard Dave. Flaming/trolling is usually fairly obvious.

#3618 4 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

The weekend is here so we should not expect any information from SkitB until Monday.

weekend.jpg

#3619 4 years ago

Seems clear to me the only option is to call quits on the whole project and refund whatever is left.

I sincerely hope we are dealing with naivety and not anything more sinister.

I have friends still in and I hope they get close to all their money back.

45
#3620 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That does not answer the question.
Yes, i have been cheering this on from the start and have been vocal about the negative implications when others have been trying to instigate a run on the bank for 6 months.
However, you still have not answered the question. Did you stay in longer because of me?

Without question you shouted down those who didn't share your rose colored views. You would stalk and crusade against those who asked tough analytical questions, those people turned out to be right (apparently) but you delayed the discussion basically single handedly. It was impressive really in its own way.

#3621 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Without question you shouted down those who didn't share your rose colored views. You would stalk and crusade against those who asked tough analytical questions, those people turned out to be right (apparently) but you delayed the discussion basically single handedly. It was impressive really in its own way.

I was a victim of his abuse!

-36
#3622 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Without question you shouted down those who didn't share your rose colored views. You would stalk and crusade against those who asked tough analytical questions, those people turned out to be right (apparently) but you delayed the discussion basically single handedly. It was impressive really in its own way.

Bullshit. Stalk... Laughable and a little overdramatic tiger. Maybe rob can dial the whammmbuullance for you...

If I have that kind of power, then you are a pretty weak and easily influenced person.

For months people have been crusading against the project with very little real info. we still unfortunately have little of any real info.

I have provided my point of view and have BY large been one of the few on this side of the fence.

15
#3623 4 years ago

"crusading against a project" ...and... "trying to get a status update on a project" are 2 different things.

i have clients that want status updates on their projects all the time. it does not mean they want to see the project fail. i also have 3rd parties that aren't the client who perform very formal-scheduled and informal ad-hoc "AUDITS" of projects just to ensure that the status provided is verifiable. This is normal business activity.

I'm going through a massive security technology audit right now by a 3rd party (a company that isn't any of the particular clients), and I so totally welcome it. Their insight, expertise, and methodology will only help make my business, the project, and the clients more valuable as a result.

#3624 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

"crusading against a project" ...and... "trying to get a status update on a project" are 2 different things.

And there have been both sorts of people for the last 6 months...

39
#3625 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So very true, but unfortunately there are some that love nothing more than to see something burn so they can say they knew better. Some thrive on the screwing of others and for a long time have been rooting for failure.

WhySnow: this is exactly the disconnect that exists between you and so many other Pinsiders.
(Hence all the thumbs down votes to so many of your posts)

You are defending the company from "the haters", but many of these critics aren't "haters" at all.
They just didn't believe what was being said even early-on. As it happens, apparently there were good reasons to question Kevin, his words, and his actions.

At the moment, I am extremely anti-SkitB but I am not anti-pinball. Nor do I want to see any of you guys get screwed.
An excellent example of this is the fact that I call Bullshit on anyone saying "Give him the weekend to respond" or "another couple weeks" -cause he's had your money for far too long already!
Personally, I think he's dangerously close to acting "criminally negligent" if there's such a charge -and I think that he should be treated appropriately. I think that he should IMMEDIATELY disclose how much money he collected, and how much he has left currently. I think that probably that money should be divided between the buyers and this whole project ended.

Do you see how that's very different from a "hater" (me), wanting to see this fail?
Even if there were individuals who contacted Fox, they may have helped stop this in its tracks before things get worse and even more money is spent, before the project implodes.

Two sides to every story. Very doubtful that many Pinsiders take enjoyment from the misery of others who share their love for this hobby.

19
#3626 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If I have that kind of power, then you are a pretty weak and easily influenced person.
For months people have been crusading against the project with very little real info. we still unfortunately have little of any real info.

I will say this, your statements sometimes came off like you had inside information, as if you had an "in" with Skit-B and knew what was going on. It gave an air of credibility to your optimistic statements.

#3627 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Even if there were individuals who contacted Fox, they may have helped stop this in its tracks before things get worse and even more money is spent, before the project implodes.

Likely only affected the timing of when things imploded. They probably stopped those first 10 machines from rolling out, and that is why Whysnow is so pissed.

With what we've seen and learned, there is no way the Predator build would have lasted all 250 machines. It was destined to fall apart eventually, whether from Fox intervention or business reality.

#3628 4 years ago

Don't forget 90% of all new businesses fail in the first 3 years.

Not because of a big scam, fraud, or sham; just because businesses are complicated endeavors.

If giant businesses fail, with their professional managers, accountants, forcasters and millions of dollars of capital, then we can certainly understand when a sole proprietorship runs aground.

Kodak, Montgomery Wards, 20 different airlines, GM, Lear, Macy's, all have filed for Chapter 11 - and they were all at one time leaders in their fields.

Donald Trump, hate him or not, has filled for bankruptcy, what, 4 times?

Not every business failure is because of a scam.

10
#3629 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Don't forget 90% of all new businesses fail in the first 3 years.
Not because of a big scam, fraud, or sham; just because businesses are complicated endeavors.
If giant businesses fail, with their professional managers, accountants, forcasters and millions of dollars of capital, then we can certainly understand when a sole proprietorship runs aground.
Kodak, Montgomery Wards, 20 different airlines, GM, Lear, Macy's, all have filed for Chapter 11 - and they were all at one time leaders in their fields.
Donald Trump, hate him or not, has filled for bankruptcy, what, 4 times?
Not every business failure is because of a scam.

If Kevin didn't have the license to sell the game and took in close to a mil, then it's a SCAM!!!

#3630 4 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

If Kevin didn't have the license to sell the game and took in close to a mil, then it's a SCAM!!!

A scam to rip the clients off, or to rip FOX off?

If he did have a license, would everybody have a game right now?

#3631 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A scam to rip the clients off, or to rip FOX off?

I would agree, the original "victim" is Fox, being ripped off for their IP.

Problem is, that decision caught up with everything else and has now put every buyer's money in danger.

#3632 4 years ago

I really think Kevin, DID want to build 250 Predators, and not screw around with 250 people heads.

He did just not knew how to manage this whole thing, what is involved on building these to be able to sell them all over the world.

IMO, if he would have asked for help (dunno if he did or not) managing this (license, certifications, etc..), he could have found a couple of guys/girls that could help him to get this done. Just look how many people in here know about stuff that went wrong! Same guys could have helped him to make it work.

ATM seems that the license is not there... so no machines will be built no matter what. He could have all the parts in the world already done( cabs, playfields, mechs, plastics, etc), but if there is no license for Predator and if he build and sell them he will go to jail. Simple as that.

I think people that know people that know about this licensing should get in touch with Kevin and try to secure this, or that it. Everyone loose. No one will see all their $$$ back. There is no way he can give all back. Some were spent already. Worst case for Kevin, he would go to jail and you still wont see the money back.

So get in touch with Kevin and help him secure that license to build Predators, if you want to see your investment back.

#3633 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A scam to rip the clients off, or to rip FOX off?
If he did have a license, would everybody have a game right now?

Started of to rip FOX off, but now ended up with the customers getting ripped off. What difference does that make, it's a scam. He didn't have the license, at least the right one.

10
#3634 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If he did have a license, would everybody have a game right now?

It's a valid point.

You know what I think happened? He ran into trouble a long time ago with the license and he knew it. He was going to try and ship an unlicensed product and found out late in the game he's not actually capable of manufacturing it himself. When he needed to outsource MFG he realized he would have had to provide documentation that the license was legit. But now so much of the money is gone from earlier development, f'n' around and god knows what else - that he's stuck with nothing.

-2
#3635 4 years ago

I just spoke to Kevin, he told me he's really enjoying the weather down in Mexico.

#3636 4 years ago

For those of you hoping to one day receive a Predator from SkitB - it is not going to happen. Sorry to inform you but if you chose to ignore the information that has seeped out this week, you are being delusional. No matter how badly you don't want to hear it, Predator pinball is doa.

With a lot of help from others, Kevin built a fantastic protoype pin and then he presold 250 of them. However, this entire journey was based on a lie about the license, which turns out is a fundamental issue & concern. He has broken the circle of trust and once that happens, it cannot be repaired. Once you are out of the circle, you are out, there is no coming back.

Even once he refunds money to those requesting it, why would the remaining people trust him to be able to build this pin for them? Kevin should seek legal advice and craft a letter to accompany his return of everybody's money. That's right every cent to every person. If he is short $100k, that should be divided by 250 people and all but $400 returned. This ensures everybody's exposure is the same, regardless of what the've paid in.

Kevin should seek legal advice on his non-profit status and potential back taxes; ip issues with Fox and how to ward off 250 potential fraud complaints for $400.

The only way a Predator pin could be made in the future is for someone to take control of the project. That involves getting a license, buying design and project off Kevin for $100k (so that he can return estimated portion of funds missing to cleanup the balance sheet). This new entity would need source code so as to develop and maintain software. There is no way to reorganize SkitB to accomplish this and Kevin needs to be out of the project - period!

10
#3637 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A scam to rip the clients off, or to rip FOX off?
If he did have a license, would everybody have a game right now?

If he didn't have a license, it would be a scam ripping both Fox and the owners off, since there is no way pins were going to be made and sold without a license.

#3638 4 years ago

If we (as a community, just as money-in-buyers or both) want to see Predator be a success, maybe getting some formalization in the following areas could help:
1) reach out & establish an advisory board (including people who might be considered competitors, but have very specific Subject Matter Expertise (SME) in specific areas)
2) define & fill operating model roles (fill them, even if from some volunteers from the community who have expertise in these areas)
3) establish governance, internal & external communication cadence

From observations, it appears Kevin has skills in some areas, not in others (like all of us) and is extremely time constrained. I'd recommend he move into a role that allows him to succeed, and put other people (even volunteers) into other dedicated roles where they have strengths & passion.
This project shouldn't be about Kevin's ego, it should be about getting the Predator pins built & shipped.
If this project fails, really... does anyone benefit? (i hope not)

Here's a possible role-based structure to consider to help see Predator succeed.
...just noodling...

skit-b-gov-ops-1.png

#3639 4 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Started of to rip FOX off, but now ended up with the customers getting ripped off. What difference does that make, it's a scam.

I got one person emailing me that he had no license.

I've got another emailing that he only has a North American license.

Send everyone a "Jungle Assault" game.

Blanked out faces on playfield, blank cab and translight.

Let everyone decide what theme they want the game to be.

The-Blank.jpg

#3640 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I got one person emailing me that he had no license.
I've got another emailing that he only has a North American license.
Send everyone a "Jungle Assault" game.
Blanked out faces on playfield, blank cab and translight.
Let everyone decide what theme they want the game to be.
The-Blank.jpg
» YouTube video

Even IF he got a license ... ANY type of license (which I doubt) ... there is no way so many of the things in this game would have gotten approved by the studio. The blood, gore, and likeness of some mega-stars would have all been scrutinized (nevermind the video clips, sound bites, and music used.)

This game is not happening (at least not from Skit-B). Get past it. Hopefully a reasonable refund process with the remaining money can be worked out. Because I'm confident people have anywhere from $250 to the full $4750 paid and how the remaining money gets divided up and refunded will be an issue.

#3641 4 years ago

I liked this thread better with all the chick pics

#3642 4 years ago

Does someone know the gentlemen from Back Alley? It would be very interesting to hear from him on how many parts (for how many games) did he make and ship to Skit-B AND get paid for? Does he have money still owed to him? I would imagine those parts weren't cheap and that is money now gone. You can divide up the remaining money for pre-order folks but you obviously can't divide up a couple dozen skeleton toys (assuming he didn't make all 250) to give folks as part of their money lost.

16
#3643 4 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Started of to rip FOX off, but now ended up with the customers getting ripped off. What difference does that make, it's a scam. He didn't have the license, at least the right one.

In my eyes, this is a clear case of fraud. He has quite a few people defending him, mostly good people who want to believe the best. (i.e. kevin is a nice guy so he would never knowingly hurt people).

Fact is, he knew he didn't have a license.
He claimed he had a license to collect $5k off of 250 people.
He pissed away the past year getting virtually no progress on production while sending misleading e-mails to avoid accountability.
He cost FOX money paying lawyers
He disappeared from the public forum to avoid accountability
He damaged the reputations of a few people in our community who defended him with false and misleading information
He concealed the truth of the matter from everybody even though they had business and personal investment in his projects
He lied about contacting people by e-mail to address their concerns and refund requests

Stop defending this guy. He needs to be held accountable and he needs to crawl out of his hole to do it, not send minions out to battle the flames.

#3644 4 years ago
pred chick.jpg
#3645 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

assuming he didn't make all 250

It looked like he did

#3646 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm confident people have anywhere from $250 to the full $4750 paid and how the remaining money gets divided up and refunded will be an issue.

If FOX takes him to court, there will be NO money left to distribute at all.

Not one bit.

#3647 4 years ago
#3648 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Unless the preorder money is considered restricted cash, in which case the buyers would have top priority on getting it back.

Long before that happens, Kevin will have to retain an attorney versed in IP - those attorneys don't accept $5,000 for a retainer....

#3649 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Long before that happens, Kevin will have to retain an attorney versed in IP - those attorneys don't accept $5,000 for a retainer....

Well in any case, he better refund all that money before FOX can get their hands on it.

#3650 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So very true, but unfortunately there are some that love nothing more than to see something burn so they can say they knew better. Some thrive on the screwing of others and for a long time have been rooting for failure.
It would be nice to have a preowners only discussion but unfortunately there is no way to even know who that is anymore.
Regardless of how bad this situation currently is, it is pretty disgusting some of the posting of personal info and threats of vigilantly justice. Honestly sickens me more than a potential loss of game or money.

Who are these people that are making threats of vigilantly justice? Maybe I missed it but I have not seen any threats of bodily harm. I know you took my one comment way out of context and added your own meaning to it. Just to post it here that Kevin needs to speak up now more than ever or he will go down as being nothing but a stain on pinball(im sure he loves pinball). If he doesnt right the ship, years down the road when people bring up the name Kevin or Skit-B pinball all they are gonna talk about is the big scandal and fraud that is taking place. This is why you need to talk truth right now Kevin, suck it up, check your ego and pride at the door and start talking.

One other note, if you paid Skit-B through your debit card through paypal, you only have a year to file a claim to try and recover that money. Good luck everyone and I hate to see my pinball brothers go through this mess. It makes me sick to my stomach and has really turned me off on the hobby. Take care all.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 4.95
Apparel - Unisex
ULEKstore
$ 5.00
Playfield - Decals
Doc's Pinball Shop
$ 49.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
From: $ 5,999.00
Pinball Machine
Monster Bash Remake Out of stock
Flip N Out Pinball
From: $ 22.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 89.00
Boards
Pappy's Pinball Palace
$ 14.50
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 5.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 64.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Medisinyl Mods
$ 5,599.00
Pinball Machine
Operation Pinball
$ 29.95
Gameroom - Decorations
ULEKstore
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Operation Pinball
$ 25.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 839.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 73 of 366.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside