I am in a partnership, an LLP.

Not only that, if it wasn't for some of these posts by members asking uncomfortable questions, how long would have this charade continued. I understand physical threats are despicable and counterproductive but the general "spitballing" of ideas is what got this sham exposed. What may be a non-productive post in the eyes of some may spark an idea or thought to a post that is relevant in another. The free flowing discussion got us here.

I didn't post this as a challenge or questioning of a mod. I did it so we keep in prospective that aside from the threat posts and boob posts (ok maybe the boob posts can create inspiration. lol), each post can be important no matter how inane it appears.

Good man. What did that cost you to register, a couple hundred dollars? Asking for a friend...

I have no clue, I wasn't involved in forming it. I got a job there and eventually became a partner.

LLC's cost around $300-800 depending on the state.

I'm pretty sure the cost of a LLP is greater than a LLC. It depends on the partnership and the state.

Oh, well I can assure you they're affordable. Certainly more so than personal liability

I think I paid closer to 200 for my llc and about 500 for my s corp. Llc in ny and corp in delaware

I'm not really familiar with partnerships, but the limited liability is key. Is skit-b a legal entity?

That is one of the questions that has been raised. I'm not sure. SkitB/Kevin stated that he had a non profit corp status. I have no idea how that is possible but I'm not a tax lawyer.

I fail to see how a pinball mfg can achieve nonprofit status for tax purposes

I'm all for giving Kevin more time to work this out, and build the pins eventually, I see that being another year before they start shipping (just a wild guess but as good as any).

However, some people would like a refund, and since Kevin does not have a game to sell, since he lied his ass off repeatedly about his ability to deliver a game, it's clear legally and morally Kevin should refund anyone who asks. If he doesn't have enough money to refund people who ask he should go bankrupt and proceed from square one.

Basically, to me this project is at the same place as it was when it was first announced 3 years ago. It's a concept to build a pin based on Predator. They have a prototype game but not much else. Kevin should proceed from there. He should not be sitting on $750,000 while people who were lied to want their money back. I know how difficult it is to work and save $3000 it's not Kevin's money, it's not up to him to decide if he wants to keep it or refund it.

Bottom line, especially Ted or Aaron if you talk to Kevin explain that he is breach of contract and his top priority should be cutting checks. Not in two weeks, today.

The light being shown on everything is not because of Kevin. It is because of this thread. Most recently, it was because Kevin sent out a mass email saying he was sitting at his computer responding to everyone. Because of the activity in this thread, that was exposed as another lie.

If everyone took the weekend off, and gave Kevin more time to do whatever it is that he's doing, none of the true story would be bubbling to the surface as it has.

The vigilante justice isn't the right path, but asking tough questions and analyzing the information that is available is exactly what should be going on here.

Y'know whats really sad here is that this whole thing has totally killed my desire to play pinball. I can't even bring myself to play my machines as all I can think about is this mess when I do.

C'mon Russo. It's ok. Yes, it sucks that we have been treated this way. Don't let this one incident diminish your enjoyment of pinball. You have some cool games in your collection. You bought them to enjoy them. I'm just as disgusted about this situation as you but I still love playing pinball.

Take a break from this crap and enjoy some pinball with friends and family. That's what it's all about.

No. its certainly NOT ok. Not even close.

Thanks for the kind words however. It is appreciated.

These points/information are exactly why I love the community of Pinside. All other speculation, opinions and thoughts for course of action are meaningless right now. However, knowing how many of us there are that have requested refunds and have still heard nothing - to me that speaks volumes on what is really happening behind the scenes with Kevin and SkitB.

I have been asking for over a month, I have been very polite and even sharing details with Kevin of why I needed out. Up until his last two emails I still supported Kevin and believed in what he was saying - even though everything he typed was generalized. Then the last email came...

Kevin created this mess and his recent email threw fuel on an ever increasing fire.

I'll leave it at this - we all need to keep calm, stay banded together and keep each other informed with what we directly hear from Kevin.

Now I am off to more important things like installing a few mods from my dear friend Hemi (Steve) into my Xmen Magneto. Then maybe lunch and a movie out with the wife.

Peace and Love Pinside!
Kevin

Come on man, this is way beyond him taking the weekend off. Kevin needs to man up, it's as simple as that.

Let's start with baby steps. There is absolutely no reason he can't take 1 hour of his time and refund 2 people. If you can make a rational argument against that, other than it being "the weekend", then I'll gladly shut up.

Unfortunately time probably isn't his problem

i think that any of us who run a business literally lol'd at the thought of "taking the weekend off" in the middle of a train wreck like this... i think that any of us who run a business have spent plenty of weekends at work for FAR FAR lesser issues...

I've got a money question for you tax guys out there.. How does it work when you take in $750k and sit on it for an extended period of time without having expenses (that equal revenue)? How does the tax man see it? Does that not count as $750k of profit when you haven't spent the money on mfg? Seems like a real sticky or at least pain in the ass accounting situation. Am I wrong here? I'm genuinely curious how this could work over a number of years. And take it one further - how could you be a non-profit with no real re-investment of what's left?

^^^^ What he said.

Getting ready to go to my own shop and continue working on the move to my new shop.... On a weekend.... And I am still easy to get a hold of. And still working on customer motorcycles at the same time.... And I have no employees...

If a Dumb***K like myself can do it, I'm sure others can.

I haven't been able to locate any info about Skit-B being a non-profit, but the name of the registered company could literally be anything. That makes it nearly impossible to discover blindly.

While I can't comment on Skit-B being a non-profit or not, I can tell you that being a non-profit doesn't mean you have to spend all of the money you take in during a fiscal year. You can store your cash in accounts just like any other company, even through multiple years.

But on the flip side of that, there are a lot of tax implications of taking money as a non-profit, including receipting. If he took in money from other countries, like the UK, that even gets more complicated.

Totally. I might as well be a peon at the company I work for right now and I've already done a couple of hours of work today.

Oh yeah, duh, that makes sense

Does anyone know what state they are licensed in? I tried to look them up in Michigan but could not find them.

Thanks in advance!

Intent is only relevant for determining the TYPE of fraud that is actionable. (Intent IS NOT a prerequisite for proving constructive fraud. It is only a requirement for proving actual fraud.)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_fraud

A bankruptcy trustee or receiver will go after either type (i.e., actual fraud or constructive fraud) if it yields a net recovery for creditors.

I will be watching American Greed for this episode

yup... even during my days in the rat race, there were plenty of weekends worked... i would have really liked to seen the reaction of any number of the people i worked for if i said "ah, y'know, i know work has to be done, but i'm just gonna blow it off because i need a weekend off"...

the whole "too busy to respond to emails, etc" stuff that has gone on for months is laughable enough, again, would any of you get away with that as a business owner/employee? i know i would no longer be in business if i did that... suggesting to "wait til monday for a response because its the weekend" kinda goes beyond laughable to just plain silly...

I am totally speculating here.....but I just wonder if he has spoke with legal council? I wonder if they are telling him not say anything? Until......they can sift through everything and give a blanket answer....

agreed.....I work far too many weekends prepping / catching up for my customers. Multimillion dollar business, and can attest the stress can be absolutely paralyzing at times ( I take meds from time to time). Not a free pass for him by any means, but hopefully he can get through this. There are resources available to help him, if he just reaches out......he might not even have a perception of clarity when things spin out of control like this, but bringing family, etc. in will only make matters worse. One or 2 angel investors, or liquidation through the courts..pretty much standard business protocol.

I don't even know him, but like to believe there is good inside, and hopefully, there will be a team assembled around him to navigate the waters ahead. Mob mentality will push him further away, and no one gets anything. Don't bring his family in this...highly doubt they had much of an idea or input as to what was going on.

Lost $65k on a "handshake" deal 6 months ago from a prominent businessman that has way more money than I have...I'll get it, but calculated steps....I only wish the best for those of you suffering because of this right now....unacceptable, but will pass.....mark

The money? Of course most of it is gone, or none of this would be happening. I'm not vested, except feeling your hurt and frustration right now......

A predator buyers group needs to be formed for those that have money on the line. People speculating and adding vicious posts will screw us buyers over rather than help.

I think one question that should be answered is does Steven Woods exist, if he does then this wasn't pre planned, if he doesn't then the money is long gone. I wish I still believed but I sadly don't.

Kevin needs to stop typing bullshit emails and just let us know what's actually happening, enough of the cloak and daggers shit, man up.

Any luck on your charge back?

It appears that Steven Woods does exist & is a real person:
https://www.facebook.com/woodsbouncer?fref=ts
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/steven-woods/59/743/572

Ah, it's this guy who appeared in their Predator promo video.

205486_4812724954074_1400146356_n.jpg

Nice to see an Experts of Dangerous cab on his FB... Not.

So very true, but unfortunately there are some that love nothing more than to see something burn so they can say they knew better. Some thrive on the screwing of others and for a long time have been rooting for failure.

It would be nice to have a preowners only discussion but unfortunately there is no way to even know who that is anymore.

Regardless of how bad this situation currently is, it is pretty disgusting some of the posting of personal info and threats of vigilantly justice. Honestly sickens me more than a potential loss of game or money.

And some thrive on dragging others down with them. Just sayin...

Why? It's not like he's a normal 8x5 business. He can update people anytime - I doubt they mind if it's on a weekend.

He is listing Skit-B as his job in the linkedin account, build manager? That would lead one to expect he draws a salary.

That is a possibility but not necessarily a fact.

so I take it he's not going to be at the Michigan Pinball Expo.

The situation is this. Wheither or not he is attempting a Hail Mary with Heighway Pinball to make this pin happen. His reputation is completely tarnished at this point. Step one is to refund all those that have requested it in the past month, weeks and days. If something can be salvaged with Heighway Pinball than a new preorder can be made with them should the project have a chance in hell to come together.

Also has anyone received a personalized email response yet?

Finally on the issue of refunds, I think none have been sent recently as it is clear that some if not all of the funds are gone. And he is trying to figure out how to evenly distribute what is left if any.

Pretty spot on translation in my opinion

Differences aside, I absolutely hope you get your game and everyone else gets a game or their money back, whichever way they are inclined.

I have little regard for SkitB as a business, but as a fellow pinhead, I hope we all agree on the former.

And you just might have been responsible for causing people to stay in this much longer than they should (or would) have.