(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#3201 4 years ago

Would buyers be ok with a $4750 game that was made in China?

I believe that's the only place where this could happen. I think that stern or JJP would want to much production money to build the game because wages are a lot more in USA then China. Could homepin be the only option to build this? Could homepin build this after thunderbirds, for a cost that won't require more capital injected into the project?

Whysnow, you think it could be built for $4750, whom would build it for that price, if it's not being assembled in Kevin's basement?

#3202 4 years ago

My guess is that Kevin is right now dealing with some legal issues and at the advice of counsel, won't be saying much. Could possibly also have run into some tax issues given some of what I've seen and heard. Certainly possible criminal charges might apply if there's anything he's done with the money that is not in the best interests of the business and customers. Given the amount of people and money involved, no doubt this has been called-in to the authorities by someone and that police at the State level at least are investigating. I hope I'm wrong of course and that the next posts on this site are that people have started getting their money back. If I were Kevin, I'd borrow whatever I needed and immediately return everyone's money because the prospects of otherwise dealing with a federal criminal fraud investigations are REAL.

#3203 4 years ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Would buyers be ok with a $4750 game that was made in China?
I believe that's the only place where this could happen. I think that stern or JJP would want to much production money to build the game because wages are a lot more in USA then China. Could homepin be the only option to build this? Could homepin build this after thunderbirds, for a cost that won't require more capital injected into the project?
Whysnow, you think it could be built for $4750, whom would build it for that price, if it's not being assembled in Kevin's basement?

homepin's pricing has shown that China is not a solution for cheap pins.

Kevin getting a bunch of bros to assemble things on his mother's kitchen table is the only way you'll get a "cheap" pin. If there was other ways, other companies would have done it by now for the competitive edge.

#3204 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

I just really...really...really hope he kept a decent ledger.

Something about his way of doing things ("money sucks") makes me strongly suspect all there is is a bank account. Whatever is in there is what's in there. He probably wasn't living a lavish lifestyle, but expenses were probably not carefully planned or itemized.

#3205 4 years ago

Has Hitler asked for a refund yet? There has to be a video of this in the works.

#3206 4 years ago

Meanwhile, at the Skit-B Headquarters...

nothing-to-see-here.jpg

-1
#3207 4 years ago

The answer is right in front of our eyes. C'mon guys. Registering as a non-profit before the last presidential election? Working on a project involving Arnold Schwarzenegger? Arnold, very conservative, Schwarzeneggar. Arnold, calling out liberals as 'girly men' Schwarzeneggar? The name of the 'game' just happens to be the same as the name of a lethal weapon developed by the US military, whose offensive capabilities remain classified? The IRS branch that was at the center of the IRS targeting scandal just happens to be located in a state bordering Michigan? Coincidence? I think not.

I smell a conspiracy. And, if I am correct, the games will start flowing after the 2016 election, assuming a Conservative wins.

-1
#3208 4 years ago

Deleted

#3210 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....
But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

Really... you got banned for posting a WHOIS link?

Please, mods... understand what is public information. Kevin COULD have hidden that info easily using his registrar's anonymizing service, but he did not. ANYONE can look it up by visiting a registrar whois page and inputting skitbpinball.com (and solving a CAPTCHA)

This is not an attempt to criticize whomever banned him, rather an attempt to educate. Banning over completely public information is... odd.

#3211 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Really... you got banned for posting a WHOIS link?
Please, mods... understand what is public information. Kevin COULD have hidden that info easily using his registrar's anonymizing service, but he did not. ANYONE can look it up by visiting a registrar whois page and inputting skitbpinball.com (and solving a CAPTCHA)
This is not an attempt to criticize whomever banned him, rather an attempt to educate. Banning over completely public information is... odd.

Whether the information is public or not, it's still a violation of the Pinside Community Rules to post it on the forum...

https://pinside.com/pinball/help/pinsidecom-community-rules

-1
#3212 4 years ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

The answer is right in front of our eyes. C'mon guys. Registering as a non-profit before the last presidential election? Working on a project involving Arnold Schwarzenegger? Arnold, very conservative, Schwarzeneggar. Arnold, calling out liberals as 'girly men' Schwarzeneggar? The name of the 'game' just happens to be the same as the name of a lethal weapon developed by the US military, whose offensive capabilities remain classified? The IRS branch that was at the center of the IRS targeting scandal just happens to be located in a state bordering Michigan? Coincidence? I think not.
I smell a conspiracy. And, if I am correct, the games will start flowing after the 2016 election, assuming a Conservative wins.

The cat is out of the bag

#3213 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Really... you got banned for posting a WHOIS link?
Please, mods... understand what is public information. Kevin COULD have hidden that info easily using his registrar's anonymizing service, but he did not. ANYONE can look it up by visiting a registrar whois page and inputting skitbpinball.com (and solving a CAPTCHA)
This is not an attempt to criticize whomever banned him, rather an attempt to educate. Banning over completely public information is... odd.

Thanks for pointing that out. I now have an address to send my refund requests to.

FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin:

As you all could imagine, over the last few days I have received quite a few emails and inquiries that must all be individually addressed and simply cannot be handled in the course of a few short hours. I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can. I would simply like to let you all know that you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.

Thank you,
-Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#3214 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Anyone else get this new email about a coming email?

Yep got the email, why the hell he could not just say refund on the way, as this would take just as long to email what he did!

Thing is money is long gone I think, only way is to hope the credit card company can reverse payment.

Good luck to all those with monies in this disaster!

#3215 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin...

"I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can."

#3216 4 years ago
Quoted from GGBGROUP:

Is this their hq facility?

No.

Probably something more like this:

7 Empty cell.jpg

#3217 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Whether the information is public or not, it's still a violation of the Pinside community rules to post it on the forum...
https://pinside.com/pinball/help/pinsidecom-community-rules

Here is the section in question:

"It is not acceptable to publicise anyone else's contact details other than your own, and any such instant messaging details, email addresses, postal addresses or telephone numbers will be removed from Postings. However, it is acceptable to include general contact details for companies, for example, but you must only include publicly available details, such as the address of a restaurant, or the email address for customer support for a company."

It would seem that posting a LINK to a WHOIS page that still requires the user to input a CAPTCHA does not violate this rule as it is written. No one is publicizing any of Kevins details on Pinside. Also, SKIT-B is a COMPANY and has a commercial webpage. Un-hidden WHOIS data on commercial webpages for company is "publicly available details..." how is this different from the restaurant example above?

#3218 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

publicly available details

that's what a whois is.

#3219 4 years ago

Maybe it's because his business contact details are his personal residence?

17
#3220 4 years ago

Email is hard

#3221 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....
But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

Quoted from metallik:

Really... you got banned for posting a WHOIS link?

Let's get one thing straight. Nobody got banned. We can't even ban these days, as there are no ban votes. We can send a warning, we can thread eject, and we can completely freeze/shut down your account in case of spam or toxic meltdown. That's it. The fact that you are still posting means that none of those happened. I haven't even looked behind the scenes yet because I'm just catching up, but I'm guessing they edited your post (to remove the link) which auto-sends a response to you.

I woke up this morning to a ton of back/forth that went on between the mods overnight on whether they should edit that information. It IS personal information, which we do not allow per community rules, and we don't want to be responsible for a pitchfork-wielding mob showing up at his house. Then again, it is listed under his business details, which we do allow to be posted. I believe it was decided for now that just the link itself would be removed. However, since everyone has posted exactly where to find the info and what to search, it is not secret information.

#3222 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Thanks for pointing that out. I now have an address to send my refund requests to.
FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin:
As you all could imagine, over the last few days I have received quite a few emails and inquiries that must all be individually addressed and simply cannot be handled in the course of a few short hours. I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can. I would simply like to let you all know that you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.
Thank you,
-Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is my first post in this thread and I don't usually post in threads like this but...

What a load of crap imho. Refunds seem to have been requested all year so far and it also seems like all those are being ignored? How can he seriously type the above? Honestly, it does seem like there is a screw that is not very tight in his head.

Good luck to everyone who paid anything towards this project. Hopefully you all get some sort of satisfaction in the end.

#3223 4 years ago

Loads of refunds requested that I know of. I told him he was welcome to my initial $250 for R&D of the machine. He's obviously put in a lot of effort and time, he also has a saleable asset.

I think if everyone went that route, he would have $62500 plus a machine he could sell as a prototype for, I imagine a large sum, which may or may not cover a lot of his outlay.

#3224 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I'm just catching up, but I'm guessing they edited your post (to remove the link) which auto-sends a response to you

I didn't post it, the other fella did.

Quoted from blondetall:

It IS personal information, which we do not allow per community rules, and we don't want to be responsible for a pitchfork-wielding mob showing up at his house. Then again, it is listed under his business details, which we do allow to be posted. I believe it was decided for now that just the link itself would be removed. However, since everyone has posted exactly where to find the info and what to search, it is not secret information.

I certainly understand the mob-avoidance mentality. I think the lesson here is for people to make use of registrar proxy services for their websites, unless they don't mind details available via WHOIS. As was mentioned, the very purpose of WHOIS is to make domain owner's details publicly available.

#3225 4 years ago

For this QA round table. Here's a question.

Why did Kevin require $3000 back in June?

It was supposed to be for building pins 'in a few short months'. Now it's been more than a few short months. CLEARLY, Kevin is not building any pins, he is working out both the license as well as working out who is going to build the machine. In other words he's about 1/3 of the way to actually building the pin, and may be way less than 1/3 of the way there if he had to do a ground up rebuild with the proper call outs, music, art etc...

So if the $3000 was suposed to be for building the pins 'in a few short months', then what is Kevin still doing with the money?

Either he's stolen it, or he's keeping it as a ransom meaning holding the money hostage so that people don't give him the flying bird as they take their money and buy a real actual pin.

Kevin is in clear breach of contract, he has not delivered any pins and he has past his promised dates and he has not given a clear true time for the pins to be built.

I suggest if any want a refund, you contact Kevin either email, phone, letter, smoke signal whatever works. Tell him he is in clear breach of contract and that you will go to court and as well as your deposit you will seek your personal legal fees as damages.

I'm not a lawyer, maybe ICE can chime in, but I believe this is open and shut. Kevin can not keep your money indefinitely. I was in on Jpop fiasco and managed to receive a full refund. One of my best friends is a lawyer who said clearly John was in the wrong and (I am sure the same would apply to Kevin).

Certifed letter, state you give him 2 weeks from the date he recieved the letter to have a full refund or you will go to court which he certainly doesn't want.

Now.. Sorry to say I don't know anything about who, what, where, how to go to court over this. But I'm sure someone can say, and I even believe you can have the court in your own home state. Again, I'm not a lawyer, it didn't get that far with John. I think if Kevin has an ounce of brains he would rather issuing refunds than fight it out in court.

#3226 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Thanks for pointing that out. I now have an address to send my refund requests to.
FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin:
As you all could imagine, over the last few days I have received quite a few emails and inquiries that must all be individually addressed and simply cannot be handled in the course of a few short hours. I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can. I would simply like to let you all know that you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.
Thank you,
-Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is comedy gold if not for the fact that peoples hard earned money is on the line. Seriously how can he write this sort of stuff with a straight face or any sort of conscious.

Just tell the truth, the exact state of play where things are at. Tell it all once and tell it accurately and detailed then you don't have to repeat it over and over. Very simple really, unless the truth is inconvenient?

#3227 4 years ago

This is from Wikipedia, I'm sure there is more specifics involved but I am on vacation so I can't cite more at this time.

---------

Breach of contract is a legal cause of action in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one or more of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance. If the party does not fulfill his contractual promise, or has given information to the other party that he will not perform his duty as mentioned in the contract or if by his action and conduct he seems to be unable to perform the contract, he is said to breach the contract.[1]

A breach by anticipatory repudiation (or simply anticipatory breach) is an unequivocal indication that the party will not perform when performance is due, or a situation in which future non-performance is inevitable. An anticipatory breach gives the non-breaching party the option to treat such a breach as immediate, and, if repudiatory, to terminate the contract and sue for damages (without waiting for the breach to actually take place). For example, A contracts with B on January 1 to sell 500 quintals of wheat and to deliver it on May 1. Subsequently, on April 15 A writes to B and says that he will not deliver the wheat. B may immediately consider the breach to have occurred and file a suit for damages for the scheduled performance, even though A has until May 1 to perform.

#3228 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

$4750 isn't viable, accept it

Quoted from Whysnow:

It actually is extremely viable even when other designers have said otherwise.

When I had CCC at expo in the booth right next to Kevin & Predator two expos back, I heard him say "It costs me 4 grand every time I build one of these things". That's without paying someone else to build them.

#3229 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

When I had CCC at expo in the booth right next to Kevin & Predator two expos back, I heard him say "It costs me 4 grand every time I build one of these things". That's without paying someone else to build them.

Yay! Some factual info in this otherwise "sea of supposition" here on pinside!

So if the material cost is $4000 (excluding labor), what's the guesstimate on labor to assemble a pin? 16-man hour? less? more?

#3230 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

When I had CCC at expo in the booth right next to Kevin & Predator two expos back, I heard him say "It costs me 4 grand every time I build one of these things". That's without paying someone else to build them.

Thanks EP.

4k to build. I assume at that stage it was for building a prototype and there would be some cost savings when ordering parts for 250?

If you think he is going to have to pay someone else 750 per (based on Ben's estimate), then it can still be done for 4750 or close to it.

I wuold happily pay an additional $200 if it meant a lock tight license is acquired and proof of it is provided.

#3231 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

what's the guesstimate on labor to assemble a pin? 16-man hour? less? more?

16 man hours to assemble a pin? I'd think it would be much higher than that. Does that include populating the playfield?

#3232 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

This is from Wikipedia,

Next time I go to court I am taking a tablet and using wiki. No need for an attorney eh?

#3233 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Thanks EP.
4k to build. I assume at that stage it was for building a prototype and there would be some cost savings when ordering parts for 250?
If you think he is going to have to pay someone else 750 per (based on Ben's estimate), then it can still be done for 4750 or close to it.
I wuold happily pay an additional $200 if it meant a lock tight license is acquired and proof of it is provided.

But arent there some other expense line items you missed?
His time for the last 2 years?
Travel?
LEGAL?

True, he could have loaded those all into his $4K figure, but I think its just as likely some of his costs have gone UP given the delays to get this out the door.

Also, wouldn't 3% come right off the top for paypal fees?

Ah, here we go again- "winging it" with the numbers

#3234 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

16 man hours to assemble a pin? I'd think it would be much higher than that. Does that include populating the playfield?

I have no idea. I was going off the assumption that he was planning to ship a couple of these per week.

I cant use my own labor capabilities to judge... I think I spent nearly 8 hours one time just switching out all the damn light bulbs in a game, much less BUILDING one

#3236 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Thanks for pointing that out. I now have an address to send my refund requests to.
FYI: Just got this mail from Kevin:
As you all could imagine, over the last few days I have received quite a few emails and inquiries that must all be individually addressed and simply cannot be handled in the course of a few short hours. I am here, I am listening, and I am returning correspondence as quickly as I can. I would simply like to let you all know that you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.
Thank you,
-Kevin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I had just received this email I would be more frustrated than ever. He can send out a mass email like this but he can't send one out with the clear answers that everyone wants? He has to send personal replies "in the order in which they were received"? Seriously? I think he's training to be a politician.

#3237 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

you are not being ignored, and if you have sent me a message within the last few days, the messages are being answered in the order in which they were received and you will be receiving a personal response very shortly.
Thank you,
-Kevin

Kevin's message is a load of crap. I've been e-mailing Kevin repeatedly for a refund since January, and I still haven't received any kind of response from him. Anyone that has sent him a message "within the last few days" may be waiting some time while he answers "in the order in which they were received". Wow.

#3238 4 years ago

The only thing we can do at this point, is send daily refund requests.

#3239 4 years ago

As Arnie says when the drop target is up...

"GET OUT"

16
#3240 4 years ago

He never intended to refund. He stated he would refund in the prior email knowing full well his follow up email was going to be, "going one email at a time to process the refund." That slight of hand buys him an undefined timeline since no one can prove what order they are in line. The level of deceit is astounding. Kevin is playing with a candle burning at both ends. His behavior is detestable.

#3241 4 years ago

Can anyone chime in you has received a reply from Kevin? If he's sitting at his computer all day long replying to people, there must be lots of Pinsiders getting responses.

And if no one here has gotten a reply, then that fills in more of the picture.

#3242 4 years ago

I've gotten nothing from all his email address, text message, etc... He better not make us show up to his house to be acknowledged.

#3243 4 years ago

Check your junk mail maybe that's where all the emails are going.

#3244 4 years ago

What? No....No there's no problems.......

train-wreck.jpg

#3245 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

I've gotten nothing from all his email address, text message, etc... He better not make us show up to his house to be acknowledged.

I'm actually wondering...at what point will people start escalating this beyond trying to send an email?

Just to be clear - I'm not suggesting or advocating physical altercations at all.

But, when you have thousands upon thousands of other people's money...and you've dabbled with radio silence and brutally obvious dodge techniques...one has to assume that someone is eventually going to go beyond a computer screen and attempt to at least talk to this guy face-to-face.

His reputation as a manufacturer has taken a HUGE hit...at the very minimum he needs to step-up as a person and have a true heart to heart with his buyer/investors.

Interrogation.png
#3246 4 years ago

Why don't you make the trip?

#3247 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

His reputation as a manufacturer has taken a HUGE hit

Not really, he hasn't actually manufactured anything to be considered a manufacturer....

#3248 4 years ago

Kind of like this at the moment...

images.jpg
#3249 4 years ago

I say we change the title of this thread to:

"The Official Pinside Skit-B Predator Disaster Discussion"

Edit...I just noticed that when you hover over the word "Predator" above it says "Skit-B Pinball, 2013".

#3250 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Can anyone chime in you has received a reply from Kevin? If he's sitting at his computer all day long replying to people, there must be lots of Pinsiders getting responses.
And if no one here has gotten a reply, then that fills in more of the picture.

So there's probably 225 people still in.... assume 1/3 asked for a refund, thats 75 emails... even at a snails pace of 5 minutes per email - the whole list is done is a few hours.

Sooooooooo, once again calling bullshit on this last message.

It's amazing how bad Kevin is at this? You'd think he'd accidentally do something right by now, but it seems every chance he's had to handle customer service - he's done it poorly.

Can anyone imagine how bad tech support would have been on this pin?

I cant think of a segue to this gif, so im not going to bother... just NEVER get sick of seeing it!

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