(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#3151 4 years ago
Quoted from DevilsTuner:

One thing I can say is I HOPE PEOPLE CAN NOW APPRECIATE someone like Roger Sharpe who spent his carrier giving us cool IP's to work with. Something like what is happening here would get a major company in huge issues.

Here's the irony: the rumor is that Kevin's father is good friends with Roger Sharpe.

If that true, you really have to wonder how the hell Kevin could f*ck up a license thing so badly? I mean just some simple advice on things to check and be sure of probably could have gone a long way here.

#3152 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

The only thing that would bring me happiness to this crazy nightmare,
Is that Whysnow never see's his machine (for months, if ever), He knows that he is one of the 10 first produced machines, and he doesn't give a shit about anybody else in this deal but himself..
which makes me sick to my stomach....
He lost a huge bet about his stupid machine being delivered before 2015, which he took
over $500 in bet's, and then re-nigged on every one of them...When his was not delivered by 2014.
Total loser who has no loyalty to the cause of us pinsider's.

WOW!

I made one bet. I lost. I will full fill the terms of that bet.

Glad you are a ray of sunshine.

#3153 4 years ago

btw, how and when will you fill it?

-2
#3154 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You're basing this on what?
Because when it comes to people who've actually build commercial pinballs vs someone who hasn't I'm going to go with their estimate.

You can do the simple math Aurich.

Take the other game, minus profits, minus parts that are well above and beyond what Predator needs, and you can get to a pretty good understanding of what each game would cost in materials.

Predator is 100% feasible at $4750. It does not leave much for profit but their is still profit.

If you want to put it an even simpler way, Stern can do it on more complicated games with the advantage of production scale. Others can do it with a more simple game and less benefit of scale.

I added up the BOM for me to build a single Predator a while back and it came in below $4500. There were a few unknowns and things I would need to do/fabricate on my own, but much of the game is sourceable with a little effort.

#3155 4 years ago

Wow a lot of people like to just make numbers up.
a little research goes a long way. Reading this JJP license cost is only $200 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/roughly-how-much-money-does-it-cost-stern-to-buy-a-license) per game so how much more can a 28 year old license be? Lots of nonsense stated

#3156 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You can do the simple math Aurich.
Take the other game, minus profits, minus parts that are well above and beyond what Predator needs, and you can get to a pretty good understanding of what each game would cost in materials.
Predator is 100% feasible at $4750. It does not leave much for profit but their is still profit.
If you want to put it an even simpler way, Stern can do it on more complicated games with the advabtage of production scale. Other can do it with a more simple game and less benefit of scale.

Okay, so basically you're making these really declarative statements, even going to far as to call the other people with experience liars, and you really have nothing to base it on.

You're right, I can do the math. From inflation alone he's already down maybe $300, since costs have risen but the starting price he named has not.

Secondly, he had no license before, and now a real one is going to cost him. It's going to cost him a lot more per machine (call it $200), and it's going to require a lump sum up front. That's how it works. That's a real cost, not factored for.

Thirdly, he's claiming someone is going to build these for him. That's not him and his buddies in a basement, that's paying someone for their work. That's a cost.

But let's make it simple: you said there is still a profit. Since you've run the math, how much profit, exactly, in dollars, per game?

#3157 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Maybe that would work, but I think MANY would feel uncomfortable sending any more money to Kevin personally.
That option might work if he can setup some kind of escrow account or some other mechanism (not a special deal with pinside) that has oversight and accountability.
"Guys, we messed up. I *did* get a limited license in the beginning but it expired/was insuffient/etc. TI also tried to do this with a razor thin profit margin (out of misplaced love), but THAT has hamstrung me to be able to complete this game.
So, to get this game out, here's the options:
1. You pay an additional $1250 to cover the new license and jobbing out the manufacturing. The good news is- this will mean you get the game in a few months vs 1.5 years)
2. If you opt out, I can refund you 50% of your payment. Sorry, there was risk and that's where we are at right now. However, once we go into manufacturing and have extra games to sell, I will refund the balance 50% once sell another game (to essentially take you place in line).
3. The last caveat is that to keep this project afloat, we need to uncap the number made. You early investors will have LE models, but we will need to sell more machines to make this viable.
4. I will personally assemble the first 10 and they will ship out on or before ___.
5. It will take some time to tool up the new manufacturer, so the realistic date for #11-250 is ___
Thank you"
I hope that's the kind of message he can send (hopefully minus the $1250 bump)

Man I just don't understand how you can keep on speculating at these things...where did you get the $1250 figure from? Who told you about the 50% refund? Let me spell it out for you...you are not helping us or Pinside with your assumptions. If you have real facts then post away.

#3158 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

a little research goes a long way. Reading this JJP license cost is only $200 per game so how much more can a 28 year old license be?

Obviously so much that someone skipped out on doing it.

A little research goes a long way.

#3159 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Here's the irony: the rumor is that Kevin's father is good friends with Roger Sharpe.

Many, many pinheads in Michigan can claim the same. Roger is very active in the pinball community and just a very friendly guy to boot.

This is going to end badly for some unfortunately. Forget just being able to simply build a pinball machine (which they are apparently far from building at this point.) Does anyone else remember the hell JJP went through getting their "electronic" machine certified? (I forget the certification names a company needs?) Do you remember how much effort went into just designing the box for the game with all the required government approvals and what not? Do you think Skit-B is anywhere near that point for dotting their I's and crossing their T's? Heck no unfortunately. If a miracle happens shortly and the studio magically agrees to give a license, at a reasonable price, AND approves the current design (L O L), AND gets pre-order folks to pony up more money ... they STILL would have a huge mountain to climb to get this done and shipped to customers. Sorry. Not happening.

The ONLY question Kevin needs to answer is ... when will you admit this isn't going to work and tell folks how much money you can refund each person??? Because we know they won't get a full refund.

#3160 4 years ago

I don't see how the $5k price tag was even justified with the game not having a single mechanical toy...ST pro, XMEN pro, ACDC pro, Metallica pro, etc all have at least one mechanical toy and cost less then $5k NIB.

I hope those that want their money back get it soon.

#3161 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

If you have real facts then post away.

Real facts?

If that was the standard for posting in this thread we'd still be on page #1.... With room to spare.

#3162 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Here's the irony: the rumor is that Kevin's father is good friends with Roger Sharpe.
If that true, you really have to wonder how the hell Kevin could f*ck up a license thing so badly? I mean just some simple advice on things to check and be sure of probably could have gone a long way here.

May be very naive on my part, but it looks like there is ALOT more wrong here than just the licensing. He could have made another pin w a non licensed title...maybe wouldn't have sold as much or had the appeal, but would have been something, at least.

There's just too much money and too much time to believe there is anything salvageable at this point...cut bait and move on. I have no vested interest, and feel horrible reading about this for the people that have lost their hard earned money. A lot of good people here on Pinside. From a pure business perspective...bury this, claim it as a loss on investment or whatever, but you must move on.

He will bare this mistake for the rest of his life ( and I believe it was a mistake, not intentional fraud) but is what it is. The best of intentions can't buy a cup of coffee...let it go, and time will heal.

Again...just a businessman's perspective, but life is too short to waste anymore of it on this...take care...mark

#3163 4 years ago

For Sale - Skit-B Predator Spot - Early Production Run

#3164 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

and it came in below $4500. There were a few unknowns and things I would need to do/fabricate on my own, but much of the game is sourceable with a little effort.

Unknowns? Things to do on one's own? "Much" of the game..?

This is exactly why these things go south. A whole bunch of assumptions that are casually swept out of the way like that are allowed to accumulate in the background. The initial number (the 4500), keeps getting touted as doable while the little extras that aren't quite quantifiable at the time just keep adding up. When the bill arrives for them all of a sudden it's, "I thought this was only going to cost 4500?"
It's not that anyone is being bad, per se, by doing it, but it's very ingrained human nature to ignore little things like that and they will come back and bite.

-2
#3165 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

For Sale - Skit-B Predator Spot - Early Production Run

#3166 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

For Sale - Skit-B Predator Spot - Early Production Run

ohhh oh ohhhhh....
pick me
Me
ME !!!!

Tron Woman Intermission (NSFW):

#3167 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'd start with a few softball questions:
1. Kevin, did you received a cease and desist from Fox? Yes or No?
2. When you continually stated the license was "OK" would you now say those statements were a lie, ignorance or both?
3. Please explain the "special arrangement" you boasted about with paypal?
4. As a followup, when exactly can folks who've asked for refunds (dating back to January) expect a reply email and more importantly, their money?
5. Tell us more about that nonprofit status you are enjoying?
Then, I guess I'd want to move into the tougher questions....

Can one of Kevin's friends send this to him? He can simply answer each one of these questions in one of his email updates since that seems to be his modus operandi.

These are the questions that people want answers to. Of course, none of them are more important than question #4.

-1
#3168 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't see how the $5k price tag was even justified with the game not having a single mechanical toy...ST pro, XMEN pro, ACDC pro, Metallica pro, etc all have at least one mechanical toy and cost less then $5k NIB.
I hope those that want their money back get it soon.

IMO...IM blows this pin away, Tron blowed it away x10, ST, Met Etc.. Predator is lucky to be in the $5000 ball park, theme alone I suppose. There is ZERO chance that if they uncap the number they sell 1000 (or 500) pins at $4750 and ZERO times a million if they charge more than that.

The only reason I was remotely interested was because it was relatively in-expensive and had an OK theme, if you include everything from the movie (every call out, movie score, long tall sallie, the works). Now if you take away the price advantage if you raise the price, take away most of the movie stuff like call outs and music and songs. You're telling me people will pay more especially when the owner head of the company is not a man of his word.

I have no vested interested, but Kevin needs to have some shame and come on here and admit what he did and stop lying.

#3169 4 years ago

i've played Predator.
it's fun, theme is totally awesome, music, lighting & artwork are cool and it is very immersive when playing. you really get the sense you're playing pinball in a jungle and shooting at things. that's really unique.
my only criticism is the target bank in the front center of the playfield. that thing is evil.
once you figure out all shots need to happen from the tips of the flippers, then the game gets fun.
you just have to get past that part. if i had the space, i'd totally have this game. imagine how cool it would be next to an Aliens pin

#3170 4 years ago

This thread is one big circle jerk

#3171 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

WOW!
I made one bet. I lost. I will full fill the terms of that bet.
Glad you are a ray of sunshine.

I was in as well as a few others on a bet. Someone even quoted it when it came to light. I never said anything about no big deal to me either way, but I did agree to the bet.

#3172 4 years ago

I'm sure with the way things are going jjp won't be building them... Maybe he can get stern

#3173 4 years ago

There's so much wrong with this entire shit thread. Why aren't you all ringing his phone off the hook to get an answer? The forum approach and the email approach everyone has been attempting isn't even worth a try, so why even bother. I really want a Predator pin, but it's looking more and more like it ain't gonna happen.

I'm going to call Kevin tomorrow and ask him what's up. I want straight answers. Is the machine going to be built or not? If so, when? I hope I can at least get a call through.

I'm going to mail him a certified letter, receipt signature required, summarizing the details of our conversation and my expectations. In that letter, if a refund is requested (this of course depends on the outcome of the call or the inability to complete the call), I will insist upon $4,750. Otherwise, legal action will be taken.
After my call to Kevin, should anything other than a Predator pin or a full refund be his response, I'm going to engage an attorney. Now that will at least cost me a several hundred dollars, but that's probably less than what I'd lose on a prorated refund, if any.

Hell, what about a lien on his property? I've been patient, but no more. If this entire project has been a lie based on bad business decisions (or lack of any business decisions), then I want to get my cash back. He can eat his losses since his wounds were self inflicted.
Sorry, Kevin. But your time is up as far as I'm concerned.

#212
We need the best. That's why you're here.

#3174 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Questions of merit that can and should be answered.
1. What is the status of refunds? Are you refunding everyone that asks at this time and how long will it take ot process those refunds?
2. You have said that you are currently working on license agreements, when do you realistically expect to tell us the details of the license?
3. You have said you working with an experienced manufacturer, when do you realistically expect to tell us the details of this?
4. Are there any changes planned to be requested for the current agreement (price, production number, etc...)?
Really the main question that matters at this stage is where are the refunds and how long till they get processed. Kevin said in his email that people would get refunded. Step #1 is getting these people their money and at minimum providing them a timeline of when they will see it.
After that the real question is WHEN are we going to get solid info regarding production and license status?
TBT, those are the only things that really need to be answered currently.

Wow... why am I not surprised the only things you ask for are tentative dates for maybe getting answers? Then you wait the 2 weeks or month and the answers don't come and then what? Oh yeah, that's where we are at.

lowepg has the questions we all need answered. And they should be answered in no uncertain terms immediately.

#3175 4 years ago

What I really want to know is............was that dress white and gold or blue and black?

#3176 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

What I really want to know is............was that dress white and gold or blue and black?

Nicely done

#3178 4 years ago

Two more weeks?

#3179 4 years ago

...the start of the emotional rollercoaster....bad news...justified bitchin....boobs.....bad news.....justified bitchin....boobs.....

#3180 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

...the start of the emotional rollercoaster....bad news...justified bitchin....boobs.....bad news.....justified bitchin....boobs.....

I say let's start with the boobs.

#3181 4 years ago

OK, you talked me into it.

#3182 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

OK, you talked me into it.

wrong_door.gif

Holy moly. I was almost asleep. awake now!

#3183 4 years ago
Quoted from navajas:

Hahahaha! God damn.
I love vid.

Good to see you back!

#3184 4 years ago

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....

But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

#3185 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....
But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

I sure hope that isn't the case. It isn't like you posted an unlisted number. The website list that information to the public for a reason. Kevin decided what information he was making available when he setup the domain.

#3186 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....
But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

Why would they do that?

Domain registration is public information if the registrant chooses, and that was obviously the choice since the Whois reveals the name, address and phone number of the registrant.

Besides, if someone had $4700 of your money and stopped returning emails for 3 months wouldn't you want their info too? Anyone would.

#3187 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

If you want to talk with Kevin, all of his info is listed on any website that tells you the registrant info for websites (I.e. Skitbpinball.com). Apparently I get banned by posting the direct link to public information on this site....
But he's only stolen ~$5k from me and many other people here, so fcuk me, Amirite mods?!?

the website>? even that hasnt been updated in ages. get some communication out there to your
loyal customers...? sounds like thats difficult or something.

#3188 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

what's your favorite color...

Blue, no yel..... aaauuuggghhhh
.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

#3189 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Are there any salaries being drawn from the Skit-B organization?

I do not know. You know what would be nice though? If Kevin took 15 minutes and made up an excel spreadsheet indicating what is left and what is expected to be disbursed. Then everyone could make a reasonable forecast of whether the project has enough funding to go the distance or if you think he may need to ask for an additional $500 or $1,000. I think it would help man owners sleep better at night and earn a lot of trust back from the community, especially here at Pinside.

30
#3190 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You can do the simple math Aurich.
Take the other game, minus profits, minus parts that are well above and beyond what Predator needs, and you can get to a pretty good understanding of what each game would cost in materials.
Predator is 100% feasible at $4750. It does not leave much for profit but their is still profit.

So pinside can listen to backseat cheerleaders like Whysnow... who has zero experience building pinball machines, but may have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in the last month... or we can listen to Ben Heck, who has actually built games, done a boutique game and got it to market, is involved with a company ACTUALLY MAKING GAMES, done custom games, and countless other REAL PROJECTS.

Who do you think we should believe? Oh, and Ben doesn't agree with you. But maybe if you keep saying it 50 more times you might really convince... someone.

#3191 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Lets be more serious. What really are the expeditures formt he account?
So far we have seen parts for 10 games post deposits being sent.
If we take a random guess that those parts total 5k per game (over shooting on this one) that means $50,000 spent out of 750k on actual parts. That hypothetically leaves 700k in the bank.
If Kevin decided to call it quits he could refund 93% of the funds (minus paypal cut?) to each person with little issue.
Do people really think he has been blowing large sums of money in mysterious ways?
Many people have met him and think he is an over confident but all around good guy that is in over his head. If this is the case, then unlikely he has blown through much more than the parts for 10 games.
Do people think a bunch of cash is mysteriously gone?

I don't (think money is mysteriously gone). He seemed like an honest fellow to me on multiple occasions. His mother too. Your post sounds reasonable except maybe he had to spend money on legal (lawyers) and perhaps a building lease up front payment? I thought he mentioned that to me years ago about getting a building secured. Anyway, I do not think he conducted shady things. I just really...really...really hope he kept a decent ledger. Most people are reasonable but you always get those picky ones that will demand to know where it all went down to the very last penny! It will be hard to please those types of people and they will make accusations, probably, if they cannot be shown every last penny dispensed.

-1
#3192 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You claimed in your post two weeks ago you had some inside info that would explain everything. I questioned you specifically about the license and you said something like there's a good reason for his actions. In light of zero big news Kevin promised you and you conveyed to us, do you know any secrets that lead you to believe all the theories here are wrong? Because given all the facts we know I personally find it hard to believe that there's a very good reason for the way things went down.

I remember that too. I spoke out as well. Nobody should do that IMO. Not hi, not the podcast person (Nate) not me...nobody. It just adds drama and also is like taking a trip back to 3rd grade and teasing that you know something but will not share it. WTF? If you know something and have not intention of sharing, then what purpose is there to flaunt it? Uh huh...nothing. Just trying to be a BigShot and add drama. Jeesh. I belong to 10 yahoo stock forums, a golf cart, corvette, mustang, Belize, Tampa and at least 4-5 more I cannot remember and I have never seen anything like I do here It's like people always want to out do each other and "One up" one another. Like it is always a competition Sad.

Peace to all...if that is possible (I hope).

#3194 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

I belong to 10 yahoo stock forums... and I have never seen anything like I do here

Tend to agree with you, but I gotta chime in with just one thing.. Most people here know more about pinball machines than anyone knows about stocks on a stock forum, lol.

#3195 4 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Tend to agree with you, but I gotta chime in with just one thing.. Most people here know more about pinball machines than anyone knows about stocks on a stock forum, lol.

Not only that. How many of those forums have members donated wheelchairs, pinball machines and thousands of dollars to charitable causes? I get tired of the bagging on pinsiders. We're a good close group. Sure there's friction at times but the under riding sentiment is a brotherhood centered on the enjoyment of pinball. I have been on many forums and have never once considered inviting anyone to my home like I have on pinside. I have sent $12,000 across the country for a pin because the member was a trusted pinsider. I would have never considered that on any other forum. So, please. Enough with pinside is so bad lately. It's bad because you choose to focus on the bad.

::off rant:: back on topic. Wtf Kevin?!?

#3196 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Does anyone else remember the hell JJP went through getting their "electronic" machine certified? (I forget the certification names a company needs?) .

Are you talking about UL and CE? I am assuming he needs to get CE for pins leaving the country. I thought UL was voluntary though (wise to get it though in case someone's house burns down and they blame it on your device).

#3197 4 years ago

Anyone else get this new email about a coming email?

#3198 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

Are you talking about UL and CE? I am assuming he needs to get CE for pins leaving the country.

Yep. Except if sent as "prototypes". But from what I know CE is far easier to get than UL. Last time we bought some serious electric stuff at work with CE certification an Health and Safety officer told us CE meant "Chinese Export". He was joking of course... kind of. Tells how confident you can be about this certification.

Quoted from nephasth:

Anyone else get this new email about a coming email?

Yep.

#3199 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Anyone else get this new email about a coming email?

Sounds like he is trying to communicate on an individual level with all that are asking him questions or for refunds. While what really matters is that he gets back to everyone and refunds for those that have asked get issued, I would say this is a small step in the right direction...

#3200 4 years ago

I've stayed away from this for a few months at least. The sinking ship just keeps sinking.

You guys know, I hope by this point, there is no happy ending to this, right? This isn't made to be negative, but you people HAVE to know this by now.

I'd be taking legal recourse at this time. Don't continue to get blinded by BS emails. Be aware of the limitations for actions in his state, and how they work for something like this, or you may lose any chance at recourse.

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