(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,269 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 33 days ago by Cobra99
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,540 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20181108-174321 (resized).png
Fife Appeal Sept 24 2018.pdf (PDF preview)
cat ooo 2.gif
7332539.attach (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 56 of 366.
#2751 4 years ago

If this project bleeds, we can kill it
skitb_bleeds.jpg

#2752 4 years ago
Quoted from bigduke13:

Not disagreeing that this has become a mess but it shocks me how personal some of the attacks have become. Does anyone really think Kevin's done all this to scam people? Of course not.

No evidence of a scam, but there is now powerful evidence of lies about the status of the project. If someone had $5k of your money and you found out he'd been misleading you for months about what was going on with the project you bought in on, wouldn't you consider that a personal afront? I think that's where the "personal attacks" are coming from.

#2753 4 years ago

Made in China.

I thought homepin was setting up a factory in China. That's the only place that you'll build this for 5k. Would buyers be upset if their game was made in China?

Now let's hope the licence works out.

#2754 4 years ago

Well this thread has gone down the pisser.
image.jpg

Time for some more redheads.

#2755 4 years ago

Is she actually a red head? I seem to have trouble focusing on her hair ...

#2756 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Is she actually a red head?

I don't think it matters.

#2757 4 years ago

If people would just tell the truth. Kevin, people on this forum, myself....just tell the truth as you walk through life. Don't play games like hoarding information/lying/truth stretching/pausing communication...walk through life talking/writing honest facts! No more deception and all the drama that goes along with it...just facts whether they are good or bad...just facts!

Life would be so much better. Of course not all can do this. Many here (reading now) would "Crave" the drama....we know who they are...lol...we all know. If only those here and the other ones throughout the world could come on board and do it? Ahhhh what a great place it would be!

Good luck to the 250 and I hope you get a pin and in a reasonable amount of time. This ordeal reminds me of a bad stock. There is a point where if you "fall in love" with it, no matter how many red flags go off, you just end up holding and praying and hoping for something good to happen. Sometimes it does. Others times it does not. I hope this is not a time that it "does not"!

#2758 4 years ago

A great book that I read to my kids. Perhaps this should be required reading for all new start ups

Feel really bad for everyone still in this. I was never in for the game but always looked cool and always happy for more pinball

image.jpg
#2759 4 years ago

So a couple weeks ago, a big news announcement is promised, and it turns out to be a frightening admission without any kind of dependable information or timeline?
Was the big announcement that he's admitting things are utterly f'd up?

Can anyone explain why the full payment was required up front, way before it was even remotely possible to order parts or build games?

If anyone out there doesn't ask for a refund, you clearly make a Hell of a lot more money than I do!

Best of luck to everyone who's chosen to... (Wait for it)... "Stick around".
(My fav Arnie quote in Predator)

#2760 4 years ago

Anyone wondered if Fox sued the shit out of him and took all the money?

#2761 4 years ago
Quoted from DevilsTuner:

Anyone wondered if Fox sued the shit out of him and took all the money?

No.

#2762 4 years ago

Yeah, nope. C&D. It would take more to turn it into a real criminal infringement case.

#2763 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

What does the stock market have to do with anything?
For most folks purchasing a pinball machine this is play money, not money which was ever going to be dedicated to an investment portfolio.
I just hope all of the folks involved in the Predator fiasco get their cash back.

Not to defend Keneda, but there is a saying 'time is money', and also 'today's dollars are worth more than future dollars'. That's one reason why WoZ was offered at $6500 a few years in advance of its delivery, it was sold at a discount. you were paying in 2011 dollars for a pin you got in 2013-14.

When Kevin demanded, he didn't ask for the $3000, he demanded it, he set a timeline that if you didn't submit to his schedule you were off the project entirely. He demanded the money and he said "I'll be building and shipping the pins in a few short months also he said ~October 2014. Both of those times were fraudulent and yet he did not send back the money which is a bitchy thing to do. When you promise something in a certain timeframe and he may be a year or years late if he ever does make the game. What right does Kevin have to you guys money if he not doing anything for all these months now since he obtained three quarters of a million dollars?

Not saying everyone invests in the stock market, probably very few Pinsiders put long green in the market. But the fact does not change that any money taken out of my overall pile of money, would effect the amount I have to invest. If I buy a new car, that's less to invest. If I go on an expensive vacation, less to invest. All money is taken from one pile of moeny, so if you subtract $3000 that's just as well saying you take $3000 out of the stock market if you invest. You didn't invest in the stock market you invested in Kevin's bank account. You didn't buy a pin really because no pin exists that he can sell you, you payed for a chance at a pin. I did not invest in Kevin, but I would be PO'ed if I had.

Now, in theory, the stock market could have gone down or could have gone sideways but the reality of what has happened is that the stock market (US average) has gone up 17% maybe more not sure with dividends might be close to 19% in the past year. My stock of choice AAPL probably closer to 60% in this time since Kevin collected his war chest.

#2764 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Not to defend Keneda, but there is a saying 'time is money', and also 'today's dollars are worth more than future dollars'. That's one reason why WoZ was offered at $6500 a few years in advance it was sold at a discount. Because you were paying in 2011 dollars for a pin you got in 2013-14.
When Kevin demanded, he didn't ask for the $3000, he demanded it, he set a timeline that if you didn't submit to his schedule you were off the project entirely. He demanded the money and he said "I'll be building and shipping the pins in a few short months also he said ~October 2014. Both of those times were fraudulent and yet he did not send back the money which is a bitchy thing to do. When you promise something in a certain timeframe and he may be a year or years late if he ever does make the game. What right does Kevin have to you guys money if he not doing anything for all these months now since he obtained three quarters of a million dollars?
Not saying everyone invests in the stock market, probably very few Pinsiders put long green in the market. But the fact does not change that any money taken out of my overall pile of money, would effect the amount I have to invest. If I buy a new car, that's less to invest. If I go on an expensive vacation, less to invest. All money is taken from one pile of moeny, so if you subtract $3000 that's just as well saying you take $3000 out of the stock market if you invest. You didn't invest in the stock market you invested in Kevin's bank account. You didn't buy a pin really because no pin exists that he can sell you, you payed for a chance at a pin. I did not invest in Kevin, but I would be PO'ed if I had.
Now, in theory, the stock market could have gone down or could have gone sideways but the reality of what has happened is that the stock market (US average) has gone up 17% maybe more not sure with dividends might be close to 19% in the past year. My stock of choice AAPL probably closer to 60% in this time since Kevin collected his war chest.

Opportunity cost should be the least of anyone's concerns with the way things are now.

#2765 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

isn't the NFL a non-profit ?

Just the NFL association, not the teams. The NFL is like a social club, it sets the rules, negotiated contracts for the owners. The NFL Does not keep the money of takes in from TV or merch or ticket sales.

I have no idea how Skit-B could be not for profit either.
image.jpg

#2766 4 years ago

We need more education on the stock market (*edit, and apparently non-profits like the NFL), so we can ignore how Kevin is sitting at home fingering his butthole instead of issuing refunds like he stated in his emails...

#2767 4 years ago

Hehehehehe....

#2768 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Opportunity cost should be the least of anyone's concerns with the way things are now.

No use crying over spilled milk (my dad used to say especially after I spilled milk ironically), it's water under the bridge, no use to shut the door after the horses are gone etc..

I'll lay off the stock commentary, I do hope Kevin get things sorted out soon for you guys.

#2769 4 years ago

I'll give Kevin 2 weeks to give me my refund, and I will ask for it everyday until I receive it. If he doesn't give it back by then, I'm filing a charge back.

#2770 4 years ago

why is it so hard to tell us who's gonna build the game? again, no real infos...bla bla bla

i don't know how he's going to pull this off.
i never understood why only 250 games? if he's really getting someone/company (insert secret name here)________________, why stop at 250, go ahead man make them until there is no more demand, simple. that's the only way he's going to make money.

i believe he never understood what a real licence is (if he ever had one).
if you don't know what you're doing... don't do it.

#2771 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

"Friends, Romans, countrymen, The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones"; So let it be with Kevin........ This guy is trying to make things right, before everyone makes a run on the bank, let the man resolve the issues. Yes he frankly screwed this up much worse than it needed to be with his silence but again like TBL if the issues are on the mend, the community (this is still a community right?) should help him not bury him.

Best post in this thread.

There's a word for this situation is a tragicomedy.

#2772 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

why is it so hard to tell us who's gonna build the game? again, no real infos...bla bla bla
i don't know how he's going to pull this off.
i never understood why only 250 games? if he's really getting someone/company (insert secret name here)________________, why stop at 250, go ahead man make them until there is no more demand, simple. that's the only way he's going to make money.
i believe he never understood what a real licence is (if he ever had one).
if you don't know what you're doing... don't do it.

He made up 250 number BS so that people would get a limited edition, make Tron LE look like a big number by comparison. Never mind the fact that Tron LE is worth more than other more limited games like 24 or CSI because it's good. 250 was to make people sweat, and worry that they needed to pay in advance or they would not get in the club. Notice TWD "my stars, there is no premium, better order the LE quick"

It's the oldest trick in the bag.

#2773 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

This guy is trying to make things right, before everyone makes a run on the bank, let the man resolve the issues.

Isn't that what people (well, many people, not everyone ) have been doing for the last 6-12 months? How much more do they have to endure?

#2774 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i never understood why only 250 games?

A few years ago he said that was all he bought licenses for.

I said he should have bought for 500 and he said "too late".

Hindsight being 20/20, it was probably better he did not sell 500

#2775 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

They have to keep making them for people who shop at Wallmart.

This image got 4 "unsafe" tags and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidepeople-of-walmart-10-26.jpg (Click image to enlarge) 4

lol!

#2776 4 years ago

If Kevin didn't have a license to begin with then I would agree with Aurich, it would likely cost 50k. That being said, He's now out of pocket for roughly 10 fully built games (10X4750). Where's he going to recoupe the money to make up for the loss? From a year ago, how much has been spent with materials, design, programming, prototyping, props (Matt @ backalley) etc? Subtract that and now i would assume he's in the red and would never be able to fulfill the 250 games he quoted to build. Provided he sends back refunds, he will still be in the red.

I also keep thinking if the license was never truly locked from the time he started the design process, then the artwork will likely have to be completely rehauled and signed off again. I always questioned and I think I mentioned this to Kevin in a seperate email that "Predator" needed to be kerned properly. See the images below...and you'll see the odd spacing between the 'A' & 'T'. I thought to myself how could they approve the artwork and not see that that the logo, it's brand was not visually correct? Odd, weird...do not know, but I can't imagine how Fox would miss the most obvious detail of all of the artwork that would have needed to be approved.

I'm a pre owner, all money in... Been a fan from day one, patient, a believer...but honestly, I'm not sure how this game will be built unless he lifts the limited 250 build out to unlimited. Able to get a loan to make up the loss $'s for the acquired license and related costs during the build out before and after the new acquired license agreement. Just not sure how he's going to pull it off. image.jpg
image-200.jpg

10
#2777 4 years ago

It might be time to start a thread to at least discuss a full on refund situation. If people make a run at the bank this could get ugly, but it you band together with a plan you might be able to exit in a way that doesn't screw people too bad. Protate refunds based on your money it on a cents on the dollar basis.

If he's spent 15% of the budget on development for instance, you'd get the money you paid in back, minus 15%. That's your loss as an "investor" in a pinball startup.

Beats some people getting paid and some not.

And I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is bad enough that it may be too late to stop things going that way. Better to get ahead of it if that's the case.

Maybe you wait for a better explanation, put that on the line. "Tell us the full truth, or just accept that it's over."

#2778 4 years ago

Aurich, great suggestion and I would be ok personally with taking a 10-15% loss to get some preorder money back. I think there is a lot of great thinkers here and would like to hear some good ideas. Another thread on this topic should be started.

At this point as you mentioned, telling the truth and accepting the party has ended would be a step forward. Obviously it would piss off many pre-owners but at least we can get movement and begin a settlement on refunding everyone's money.

#2779 4 years ago

Best of luck to all those involved with this complete and utter shit show. Sorry things fell apart like this.

#2780 4 years ago

Just asked for a refund but not convinced I'll get it. I'd be happy staying in for the original $250 deposit but too many unknowns now for me

Hell, I'd stay in for a $1000 deposit which would give Kevin $250,000 to help tie down the licences etc.

Such a shame. Probably the strongest licence possible for me. A fully working prototype and it all looks like it's fallen apart.

If Heighway pinball can get the licence for Aliens then Predator must be available on a similar deal.

If they sort the licence deal and offer some transparency then how mmany of us would jump back in?

-1
#2781 4 years ago
Quoted from rlslick:

Aurich, great suggestion and I would be ok personally with taking a 10-15% loss to get some preorder money back. I think there is a lot of great thinkers here and would like to hear some good ideas. Another thread on this topic should be started.

I'll start it if people want, but I'm not in on the pre-order, so I don't want to presume to speak for the people who are.

Just seems like it's bad enough at this stage that as much as it sucks it might be smart to talk about the best exit scenario you can find.

I mean, if Kevin comes back and says "okay, best case scenario, Fox will give me a real license. But the only way I can afford it and build everyone's games it they're no longer limited, the art has to be redone from scratch, JJP will build them [at some point, I mean really] and every buyer would have to pay $1500 more" what would you do?

Because I really think that's the best case at this point. And he's gonna have to keep at least 100 people in to make that work. And there's who knows how much longer to wait to see if that works.

Does that sound likely to anyone? If Kevin has something else better then he'd better speak up, all I'm hearing is "shit is f**ked".

#2782 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It might be time to start a thread to at least discuss a full on refund situation. If people make a run at the bank this could get ugly, but it you band together with a plan you might be able to exit in a way that doesn't screw people too bad. Protate refunds based on your money it on a cents on the dollar basis.
If he's spent 15% of the budget on development for instance, you'd get the money you paid in back, minus 15%. That's your loss as an "investor" in a pinball startup.
Beats some people getting paid and some not.
And I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is bad enough that it may be too late to stop things going that way. Better to get ahead of it if that's the case.
Maybe you wait for a better explanation, put that on the line. "Tell us the full truth, or just accept that it's over."

I would prefer if everyone forewent their initial $250 some of the loss has to be Kevin's (plus he would have a one off prototype to sell) but I guess if he's in up to $100k even though he appears unprofessional, then some should be footed by us pinvestors. For the record, I know a guy who asked for a refund in December and has asked multiple times since, he's still waiting and I guess is near the front of the queue

#2783 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I mean, if Kevin comes back and says "okay, best case scenario, Fox will give me a real license. But the only way I can afford it and build everyone's games it they're no longer limited, the art has to be redone from scratch, JJP will build them [at some point, I mean really] and every buyer would have to pay $1500 more" what would you do?

First of all - thanks for trying this. Coordinating a response would make sense. I support the initiative. Having an official spokesman dealing with Kevin may help.

In my case, I would probably not agree with these terms - would prefer a refund, even if partial. To explain why:
- Larger Run: OK - but keep a small incentive for the "lucky" first 250 (the plaque, etc...). Make it "LE" in a modest way.
- Change artwork: let's see (love the Backglass, cabinet is OK, PF could be better).
- JJP: Fine, but I would have preferred Heighway.
- $1500 more = $6,250. Nope. at that price I prefer to buy AMH.

#2785 4 years ago

After listening to the podcast I'm getting a bad feeling about all of this.

#2786 4 years ago

Has anyone else not got the email? (not that it matters)

#2787 4 years ago
Quoted from tonyoz:

Has anyone else not got the email? (not that it matters)

Yeah mate, I only get 50% of "updates". Don't know why.
Have to wait for them to be posted here, in the "Fox News" of pinball information services...
Cheers, Fitzy.

#2788 4 years ago
zzdyiv.jpg
#2789 4 years ago
Quoted from rlslick:

Aurich, great suggestion and I would be ok personally with taking a 10-15% loss to get some preorder money back.

If this falls apart you people will be lucky to get 10-15% of your $$ back. You really think this guy is sitting on all those funds?? You guys are stuck in denial/anger stage and need to move on to acceptance… Your best bet, imo, if there's no Predator game is to get a semi generic Predator 'ish' game. If there's no game this will be a total loss. There's no endgame where anybody gets their money back and a "lesson learned" here at this point.

#2790 4 years ago

Generic game produced without content, with black market playfield decals, translight, cabinet decals and software is about the best you could hope for at this moment.

#2791 4 years ago

I have sat on the sidelines and watched/read since the begining. Just curious....About how many Michigan pinheads got in on this?

Side note, the first time I met him was about 2008ish when I was giving away an Arcade Cab. He seemed to be a nice guy with a bit more confidence than ability.

I hope all ends well.

#2792 4 years ago

The only thing that matters to me is if he sticks to his word. REFUND THOSE THAT ASKED TODAY KEVIN!!!!!

#2793 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It might be time to start a thread to at least discuss a full on refund situation. If people make a run at the bank this could get ugly, but it you band together with a plan you might be able to exit in a way that doesn't screw people too bad. Protate refunds based on your money it on a cents on the dollar basis.

If he's spent 15% of the budget on development for instance, you'd get the money you paid in back, minus 15%. That's your loss as an "investor" in a pinball startup.

Beats some people getting paid and some not.

Losing 15% on your "investment" might be a best case scenario at this time. I suspect if Kevin could wash his hands of the whole thing and move on, with the fewest people being hurt, that would be something he'd consider. This game seems like it is a long way away from getting it done "right" - whatever changes and approvals have to happen, getting it ready for manufacturing, the extra costs.

BEST CASE today is no one gets their machines for another year, because we know those machines he was assembling in his kitchen will never be released. Maybe its time to determine the best of bad choices and look at what can be done to allow everyone to walk away.

#2794 4 years ago

Where did the whole non profit rumor come from?

#2795 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Where did the whole non profit rumor come from?

I found a quote from Kevin himself:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo#post-202832
"This is the magic of being a small, non-profit company. Not only does it keep the games more affordable, everything we get goes right back into the company itself as a direct investment towards the next game. "

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-at-michigan-pinball-expo/page/3#post-211709
"We are listed as a non-profit entertainment company, so any revenue that flows through our company needs to stay within our company. This means that every time a Predator goes out the door, we're that much closer to not only making another game, we're that much closer to getting our own fancy CNC machine, silk-screener, injection molder, etc. Whenever something else like that lands in-house, that's one less thing that has to be contracted out, and drives the cost of games down ever further. "

So, not a rumor.

#2796 4 years ago

It's not a rumor. Kevin went into why he set it up that way in the (I believe) predator thread.
**edit: Frolic beat me to the punch. Thanks for digging the post up.**

#2797 4 years ago

Then of course there is the "money sucks" quote. Said by every great entrepreneur than can be trusted to steward a million dollars of other people's money.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-few-words-from-skit-b-pinball/page/3#post-2077229

#2798 4 years ago

Wow. There is almost no way he is a 501c3. If he did get that status, he lied to get it.

I take a very big issue with that. I've worked solely with real non profits for the past decade. I'd like to find out more about his claim of being a 501c3.

#2799 4 years ago

His understanding of a "non profit" seems incorrect as well. Just because you are a "for profit" company doesn't mean you don't have the choice to reinvest all revenue back into the company.

I think he was naive and in over his head from the get go.

-39
#2800 4 years ago
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 1.95
Various Novelties
Pinball Wheezer
$ 34.99
Cleaner
Pinball Pro
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 18.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 24.00
From: $ 19.95
Apparel - Unisex
Pinball Wheezer
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
From: $ 64.00
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 269.00
Displays
Boston Pinball Company
$ 46.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
From: $ 19.50
Apparel - Unisex
ArcadeMade
$ 1,099.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
$ 14.95
$ 120.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 115.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 56 of 366.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside