it's 2:00am CST, now Wed, Mar 18, 2015. No news on this thread. Anything posted anywhere else? Maybe on PPS forum? someone's email... other?

There are a lot of fake gingers here.. Among other fake things.

Got THE e-mail...

Care to post?

Yer me too.
Don't know why you have a smiley face though.

Got the E-Mail from Kevin, thanks SkitB
I continue my support

Well a lot was said but at the same time no 'real' updates, just more 'watch this space'!

He says that people who have already requested a refund can have one, but he also said a real manufacturer is going to build the game so a carrot has been dangled. That leaves JJP, Stern or Spooky as they (AFAIK) are the only real stateside manufacturers. We know they have a relationship with Spooky so that would seem plausible and JJP has been mooted as the builder of EoD so they also seem plausible.

He said sorry and that they have basically been shit at communicating

Finally he states that they did have the license, but it wasn't what they thought and are in the process of sorting it.

It's a reasonable update but it's worded carefully with no update on progress but the promise of an update soon (so this year sometime)

Anything about:
- license confidence boost? -I posted too late thanks. Lite on specifics I assume ?

- The supposed nefarious activities?

why is the info so secretive ?.. i mean, im not in it, but i hope ALL purchasers got THE email.

Post 2500 and we know...? Stuff all!
Production # 220, I hope.

i think Kevin (mistakenly) thinks if he emails it- it will somehow mitigate non-believers from pouncing on the ambiguity or negative points.... as if theres such a thing as "secret" when 100's of people are involved AND the internet.

Sadly, I think it also reinforced the fact (that he now FINALLY admits) that he's had license issues all along and he's trying to limit any first-hand communication that can leak back to Fox.

It's "dumb" on a similar scale as PPS wanting photos they post NOT to be re-posted.

Well, at least he DID send an update and it will be like most of them:
- The true believers will find enough to cling to, and
- The jerks will find enough to criticize him on

good news is spooky builds them. from what I've seen from AMH, they are solidly assembled and play great. no more problems than a NIB stern has [switch here and there]....
fingers crossed.

Got the email too. Still not had any direct communication with answers to my queries however.

Somebody post the email!

Hopefully this means that people who have been asking, demanding, and screaming for refunds over several months now will finally get them.

Well, Jersey Jack is already involved in title 2, so it makes sense that there is a relationship there. The only thing though was $5k never seemed to have enough meat on the bone to bring in a manufacturer, so I'll be curious what comes of that.

More ambiguity about the license, but the very first time we've been told anything other than "the license is fine". He's going to have to explain and come clean about why he scrubbed the internet last year, because that shows motive for hiding something, so he can't just claim to have thought everything was cool.

So what happens to all the film's assets then if the game has gotten to this point without the right license? Everything he's said then about the actors, music from the movie, playfield artwork, Long Tall Sally, none of that was signed off on correctly.

"(They) did have the license, but it wasn't what they thought" means he's been bullshitting everyone for the past several months about the license being fine. It's not fine, it's fubar, and anything going forward is probably going to be different in significant ways than it was on the "final" game design, and I'd expect quite lengthy delays moving forward.

That's about the best you can spin it.

If all that's said is "(They) did have the license, but it wasn't what they thought" I think you summed it up.

On Pinside.....yaa right...............Joey

Well, I'm requesting a full refund immediately.

Lets see if Kevin will stick to his word of taking care of refunds.

Sounds like a lot of missing information still. Seems like the only reason not to say which manufacturer is because there isn't a final deal in place.

Did the email give timelines for getting refunds back to people?

If these email summaries are accurate Kevin is borderline pathological. This was the good news? Holy shit. I would hate to see bad news then. There is no way jjp, spooky, Et al will assemble game one until the license is rock solid.

It is clear Kevin hasn't been forthcoming about the license. One has to speculate that nothing was approved by the asset holder and the game is most definitely going to be different than what we presently have; if it makes it that far.

Man, Kevin has really put a ton of people in harms way. Move over VonnieD, I think you have a roommate inbound.

"In our attempts to gather showable documents to prove this wrong, we learned that our licensing deal really wasn't what we thought it was. Thankfully, with the understanding folks who control said IP and the help of a lifelong family friend, these hurdles are quickly being overcome."

So the license is still not finalized. All this stuff about getting another manufacturer is irrelevant to me. We, on the waitlist, have had to take more than one leap-of-faith on this project. I'd say more around 5. Now I need to wait around again for who knows how long to see if this gets pushed through? And what if Arnold won't sign off? Sure, he's trying to create his image as a movie star again, but what if he doesn't sign off? No Dutch graphics or callouts? Or what if they can't get the rights to the music? That's half the pin! I think all of us got on this project for the theme, not for the company, so a re-theme, or anything from the movie that's missing, to me is not even close to feasible.

I hate to join the dark side of the forum, but this doesn't sit well at all.

No timeline was given for the refund but he did say this in the email:

"To those of you who have requested a refund and have yet to hear back, please message me right away so we can get everything taken care of."

I know you have the email Russ. He said people who have requested already should get in touch, whether he hopes no one else requests the refund or whether new requests will be refunded is unclear, hope you get it.

How can he possibly not know what his liscence entails. It's clear Kevin will lie and tell half truths that paint the most favorable picture possible. At best this project just got setback 6 months if it sees the light of day.

What about the virtucab guy proclaiming all is well and that he wouldn't build anything without the proper licenses? Where is he now? What about Kevin blatantly saying the license is fine AFTER all the ip was pulled from the skitb website? Now the story is a family friend is helping? Where the fuck was this family friend months ago when the ip was pulled. Man I'm sorry to rant but I can't stand liars.

My grandfather told me once about a business partner of mine, "he would rather tell a lie when the truth is a better story."

If someone requests a refund, it should be refunded regardless of any 'hopes' a manufacturer has that the opposite will occur. What about my 'hopes'?

I 'hoped' I'd get a machine a year ago. I 'hoped' not to be ignored. I now 'hope' for my money back so that my wife doesn't take my balls as I sleep.

So for me to piece all the bits of the puzzle together for the delay, He wants people to believe that the problem with getting the job done was caused by people who had other intentions etc?

So who was responsible for this:

"In our attempts to gather showable documents to prove this wrong, we learned that our licensing deal really wasn't what we thought it was. Thankfully, with the understanding folks who control said IP and the help of a lifelong family friend, these hurdles are quickly being overcome."

So I'm guessing he was angry at people who investigated the liscence issue and pointed out what he did and didnt have the rights for? WTF?

Surely Skit B should have been saying thank you for people pointing out where he had screwed up with the licence rather than pointing the finger at them if that was truly the case. Although I suspect all along he knew what he did and didn't have and figured he could wing it/get away with more than he was allowed.

Honestly the amount of spin is a joke. At least stick your hand up and admit to a "F" up and move forward from there. I would suggest there is way more integrity with that approach than what he is trying to do now. Good luck with any future endeavours because I believe he has condemned them for ever with his failure to admit to the truth or whatever it is he's STILL trying to spin.

I cannot believe the Emperor is still refusing to admit he has no clothes!

Still in!

Just requested a refund, we'll see what happens.

That email actually put me in a harder spot then before. Before we didn't know if the license was good or not but I wasn't thinking refund because it wasn't possible. If refunds are possible now and we know there is licensing issues I can't stop thinking about asking for a refund now.

LOLZ!
0e1774207ecaca1a3abce15944412b5e8bdf91676388ddbca796557becb45848.jpg

That was enough to keep me in for now, only time will tell but as always anything other than the Predator theme would have killed this deal. Kevin bought some more time but didn't put my concerns to rest. I do like that hopefully JJP is now manufacturing the game if that's the company involved.

I'm afraid this was not the update I was looking for. I too requested a full refund, but I'm not holding my breath that I'll receive it anytime soon, if at all.

For those of you staying in, I wish you the best of luck and hope to be able to play your Predator machine one day.

If you're on the fence, my question is how do you even know what the game will look like if and when the asset holder approves it's final itineration. One has to speculate that the asset holder wasn't consulted nor signed off on the game that was/is "being assembled".

Same...

... Except I would prefer Spooky, even if they produce games at a slower pace!

(but don't get me wrong, any serious manufacturer would do as long as games are made!)

I lol'd at his post too.

At least she's letting him keep the twig after she takes the berries.

Is thinking a company like JJP or Stern building the Predator machines realistic? I find it hard to believe a company like that would want their name attached to this circus if something went south.

Regarding licensing issues, we should get detailed information from Pinball News "to make sure this story gets told in the most complete and understandable way possible".

Guess I am going to check Pinball News homepage multiple times per day...

Well, Stern handled MMr for a start. And WoZ was a circus on its own. And I guess no company in its right mind would sign a subcontracting agreement without checking the licence first.

I'd request a refund, but the realist in me knows my money will never be returned.

Could a real project afford to do full refunds at this point without screwing others invested? I think the guy is living in fantasy land. It just doesn't add up. Get while the getting is good. For you desperate folks who just have to have this theme, you'd be better off getting the refund and hoping to acquire one in the aftermarket vs. letting this guy keep your $5K and hoping he delivers what you expect.

He's probably gonna have enough money left to license one of these as a Predator pin.

jocko2.PNG

You have to wonder if any 3rd party has agreed to make it at all. They have been lying to everyone for over a year about the license so it's difficult to believe anything in these updates at this stage.

I am IN!

Re-reading that email just pisses me off even more. "Get your games sooner"... Bullshit, Skit-B has had my money for over a year. "Soon"... What a fucking joke. We've seen piles of parts, stacks of cabs, and a box of playfields. Sure, they've had to try to work their way out of a sticky situation, but in the mean time, build some fucking games and quit jerking the customers around with lip service and empty promises. Actions speak louder than words. I had hope, but these "updates" aren't fucking updates. "I don't embrace excuses, I embrace solutions." this is fucking disgusting.

Hopefully, everyone can get at least 80 cents on their dollar and move on from this disaster.

Yes. In denial.

Good evening once again, fellow pinballers.  The atmosphere around our Predator project has gotten pretty thick, so please allow me to clear the air on all of this stuff.

First and foremost, I need to thank you all for your support.  That term has a tendency to feel cliche, but the world of pre-order pinball is in a dark place right now and I understand that it takes an absolute ton of commitment and faith on your part to stick around during these times.  You have all invested incalculable amounts of support into something you saw to be great, with no way of knowing how it would turn out.  With the amount of doubts out there, that can't be easy, and you all need to know that it certainly doesn't go unnoticed.  Every step I take in this endeavor is with the clear goal in mind to make sure that when all is said and done, you all can rest assured that you made the right choice, and what felt like a risk was worth it.

About a year ago, we proudly declared that our mission was complete.  The Predator machine was totally finished and we simply needed to button up some loose ends and get started building the machines.  That simple process has turned out to be the most difficult challenge I have ever faced, and has been the most humbling experience I have known in my life.  Throughout the creative process, we had immense amounts of involvement with the community, and collected ideas and feedback from a multitude of sources that made our game something of a collective effort.  Excitement was infectious while everyone got to chime in with their ideas and criticism and watch the game change as a direct result, which all led up to a finished product that we all could feel proud of, and know we were all a part of.  As we made the transition into manufacturing, the good news and excitement went to the wayside in favor of slowdowns and setbacks, which makes communication very difficult in direct comparison.  I'm aware that sounds like a bit of a cop-out, and I make no attempt to cover that up.  This situation is of my own doing.  By allowing our reputation of constant and perpetual engagement turn into a reputation of inaccessibility, we broke a tight bond with all of you.  In the beginning when all you guys wanted to know was what was happening to the game and what future plans were, it was easy to stay engaged and excited.  Now that we're past all of that and into the next phase, the questions get much heavier and harder to deal with directly.  With naive fears of letting folks down with updates of manufacturing hurdles and setbacks, we became almost completely distant and now when we need the excitement and confidence the most, we have become all but undeserving of it.  Not being able to bring a good message is difficult, but I get it.  You all need to see progress and measureable steps being made.  While we have done what we could with what we had, that will no longer suffice, so that is what I bring you today:  progress and measureable steps being made.

It's a difficult sentiment to realize, but I'm sure many of you will breathe a bit easier when I finally outwardly state that this project has become more than I can handle on my own.  A few close friends have jokingly informed me that my earlier comment of "making pinball machines is hard" has kind of become a catch phrase attributed to me, and I'll own it again, as it clearly remains the case.  Thankfully, the pinball community is built on a foundation of the most helpful and genuinely good people on the planet, and we have gotten help from the best of the best on all levels.

While manufacturing these games here is certainly possible, it is most definitely not optimal.  I fear that with our modest setup, the fellow with game #250 would still be a year or more away from getting his game.  With that in mind, we are contracting an experienced manufacturer to handle the assembly of the games to ensure that they are completed within a reasonable time frame and pass even the most scrutinizing quality tests.  Our ability to see the manufacturing through to the end has been a constant public concern from day one, and while I thank you all again for believing we can do it, going this route will remove that concern and allow you all to rest a little easier by removing that major variable.  What does this mean for you, the owners?  Getting your game sooner with less chance of unforeseen issues upon delivery.  It's a little too early to be sharing names at this point, as the finer details are still being worked out, so more on this soon.  Rest assured that your investment is being taken care of by more capable hands than ever.

Let's talk for a second about licensing.  We are very aware of the emails and PM's circulating around claiming we never had the licensing support to sell machines using the Predator IP.  In our attempts to gather showable documents to prove this wrong, we learned that our licensing deal really wasn't what we thought it was.  Thankfully, with the understanding folks who control said IP and the help of a lifelong family friend, these hurdles are quickly being overcome.  Again, what does this mean for you, the owners?  More fluent updates on progress, the addition of licensed images to our website and communications, the return of the gameplay videos(!), and much more.  There is a lot of contextual information here that can't really be conveyed very well in this fashion, so we've been in talks with Martin from PinballNews.com, along with the most notable of podcasts to make sure this story gets told in the most complete and understandable way possible.

In short, I've pretty much done everything wrong during this whole process and you guys are still here.  I can't repay that kind of dedication by sticking with more of the same, so everything is becoming much more "real."  Getting "real" manufacturers on board with "real" licensing support along "real" timelines with "real" communication from the creators of your "real" game.  Expect to be hearing a lot more from us as things continue to move in this new and exciting direction, but if you need anything from me, please don't hesitate to send me a message right away.

To those of you who have requested a refund and have yet to hear back, please message me right away so we can get everything taken care of.

Thank you all again for your continued support,

-Kevin

Ok, now that Martin's name has come up again, this time by Kevin, I have to think EVERY allegation brought forward in those conspiracy emails has to be accurate.

As opposed to "make believe" licensing?