(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#1751 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

The problem is, there may be no "out" any longer. There's at least one member here that said Kevin has ignored his emails for MONTHS on a refund.... and that goes back to when things were "ok"
Now, with all this pressure here and Kevin admitting there ARE issues (though vaguely) it's hard to believe he will suddenly become more responsive, especially if there's no "A-ha Wonderful" moment in "2 weeks."
So, in a way, its understandable why some folks will just REFUSE to accept anything but a positive outcome. They have no choice at this point.

Ted and Whysnow said everything is fine and we'll understand in two weeks. Whysnow is rarely right but I'll give Ted the benefit of doubt. Plus two weeks isn't long to wait.

#1752 4 years ago

I've reviewed all my emails from Skit-B. No formal contracts, but the email confirmations of the transaction should suffice as a bill of sale. Also, I didn't see the company anywhere identified as a LLC. So, if this is a private agreement between two (actually 250) parties, I guess small claims court would be the step to follow, should the entire project fail with no refunds/settlements.
I hope the project succeeds! I want my #212!!!

#1753 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I think there was just money sent with Kevin keeping track of deposits on the back of a napkin, ie. No formal contract.
My word is my bond type of deal.

Scary

Quoted from Enaud:

I've reviewed all my emails from Skit-B. No formal contracts, but the email confirmations of the transaction should suffice as a bill of sale. Also, I didn't see the company anywhere identified as a LLC. So, if this is a private agreement between two (actually 250) parties, I guess small claims court would be the step to follow, should the entire project fail with no refunds/settlements.
I hope the project succeeds! I want my #212!!!

I hope you get your game, too. Sorry you're having to live this out.

Just out of curiosity, how much did he require for a preorder reserve?

#1754 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Whysnow is rarely right but I'll give Ted the benefit of doubt. Plus two weeks isn't long to wait.

I'm only reporting what I was told. I think Kevin really wants to make this machine. I hope he gets everything ironed out and everyone gets some good news.

#1755 4 years ago

More and more this is sounding like a "long con"..

#1756 4 years ago
Quoted from Marv:

More and more this is sounding like a "long con"..

Seems like a lot of trouble if it was just that...

#1757 4 years ago
Quoted from Marv:

More and more this is sounding like a "long con"..

That suggests intent. I have met Kevin, and I DO NOT think that whatever he is dealing with is intentional. I mean... he had not set out and planned and plotted to con anyone or make this a long terrible process.

I think Kevin started with the very best of intentions... things went south... emergency protocols went into place to prevent a run on the bank... bandaids became bandages... cuts became wounds... and now things have inadvertently come to a point where things are really, really serious.

Not saying that Kevin could not have prevented it with some better planning and a partner who had done this kind of thing before... just saying he is NOT a con man. I dont believe that for a second.

A fibber maybe... but not in the beginning... and not as a part of an elaborate plan. No way. This guy wants to build an awesome predator pinball machine and always has. Possibly... he cant.

We shall see I guess.

#1758 4 years ago

Question is, why hasn't he even built 1 pin? With of course the exception being the one he drags to all the conventions. What has he been doing the last couple of years?

#1759 4 years ago

Take it for what it's worth...he told me there were 10 machines being made with 3 done or almost done...
This is going to make a good documentary film...

#1760 4 years ago

27, why answer "scary "to pure speculation by Rai. We can't just make up stuff and start agreeing and spreading it. At this point I am concerned too but let's not throw gas on the fire either.

#1761 4 years ago

I think is time for another hitler vid

#1762 4 years ago

I agree that Kevin isn't a "con artist" in that I truly think he's always meant to make games for people. It wasn't a scam to take the money and run.

He just might not have been entirely truthful about his ability to do such a thing. Or maybe it's just complicated. Or maybe he's been outright lying.

But whatever happened I do believe it was about making games, not cashing out.

12
#1763 4 years ago

SkitB would have left you guys in the dust a long time ago if this was a con, lol.

It's just a case of a dude getting in way over his head and underestimating the effort required to fulfill his dream. It happens a lot.

#1764 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Take it for what it's worth...he told me there were 10 machines being made with 3 done or almost done...
This is going to make a good documentary film...

Wow 3 almost done in 3 years, call me in 74 years when my pin is ready.

#1765 4 years ago

Thanks for posting this -- I hadn't listened to this podcast before but it was well done and seems to be a clear eyed and rational review of the situation here.

#1767 4 years ago

Id also like to add if there's no license then those pins he's working on are gonna be giant paper weights. Sorry for the negative tone but im sick of the waiting, and now another two weeks for some fluff thrown our way. If things are bad and you don't have the license Kevin you should probably go ahead and spill the beans cause after listening to coast2coast pinball I fully agree with Nate. There is too much shady stuff going on, no mentioning the word Predator in your email or posts, no sign of the videos or anything to link Skit-B to predator, early on Aaron leaving Skit-B abruptly (leaves me thinking he didn't agree with something you were doing). The update newsletters with pictures we have seen a long time ago. Sorry but the writing is on the wall and I just wish I would have came to my senses before the full shitstorm went down.

#1768 4 years ago

If the licence was not fully obtained them why did he even go ahead with this, I never understood the lack of mention on the website or the fact that it does seem to be a secret word with in SkitB, look at Heighway and DP, JJP etc. I just don't understand why and I went along with it so I'm to blame as well and I can even understand a special clause that disallows him from showing The Predator but why not tell us and put our minds at ease, this was amusing for a while but its over man. I do not want to do this anymore and Kevin knows how many of us feel confused, upset and ready to bail. Those 2 emails were crap, nothing to put my mind at ease and only re affirming my concern. At this point I will wait the 2 weeks but have to admit even that is tasking. I could buy a nice Whirlwind with my 3000 or 3600 Can dollars, I would forget about Predator pretty quick once my money was refunded, which is appearing to be another challenge. Please Kevin throw in the towel or address the issues. I'm a serious Predator fan of both films and want this game but I was expecting the major update to be 10 games built and ready to ship, we are in business.

16
#1769 4 years ago

Bump for the snowstorm:

#1770 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Bump for the snowstorm:
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hideKate Upton Swimsuit Sports Illustrated 2013.png (Click image to enlarge) 1

why can't kate show up at my door to offer to shovel the snow????

#1771 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

why can't kate show up at my door to offer to shovel the snow????

You couldn't afford it!

#1772 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Id also like to add if there's no license then those pins he's working on are gonna be giant paper weights.

Maybe, maybe not.

I think FOX would go after him for building them, not the 5 or 10 people that might have one in their possession? But who knows....

My gut feel for the "2 weeks" reprieve is Kevin thinks that might be enough time to actually COMPLETE several games.... maybe not 10, but enough to fill the frame of a nice photo.... maybe like 6 games done and the other 4 in various states of assembly.

THIS will be enough of a breadcrumb to keep the faithful from jumping on the ledge....

#1773 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

If the licence was not fully obtained them why did he even go ahead with this

What I don't totally understand is....when you make up a playfield, backglass, toys, etc...you show a license. I went to Staples to get one of my scripts copied. They wouldn't do it until I proved I had the rights!
Did EVERYONE just make up this stuff on his word??

#1774 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Did EVERYONE just make up this stuff on his word??

Sounds like it. If there was a contract to post (with redacted parts) it should have /would have been posted a long time ago when the questions first started coming up.

#1775 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

My gut feel for the "2 weeks" reprieve is Kevin thinks that might be enough time to actually COMPLETE several games.... maybe not 10, but enough to fill the frame of a nice photo.... maybe like 6 games done and the other 4 in various states of assembly.
THIS will be enough of a breadcrumb to keep the faithful from jumping on the ledge....

Perhaps the "2 weeks" are intended to allow Kevin time to fly to Fox's office to negotiate (or renegotiate) the licensing agreement? Only the insiders know for sure, and they ain't talking.

#1776 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

BBB was $4500 from Gene.
Also many of us believe Gene exaggerated his loss and may have really broken even or made a little.

I think Gene *could* have made the game for 4500, but there were mistakes made along the way that ballooned costs. I do think he lost money when all was said and done.

#1777 4 years ago

I definitely do wait for the next update from Kevin which MUST be a major one. If not there is the risk that many will jump out and than ... no further comments.
Kevin you and only you can slow down these rumors.
Can anyone give a short summary of these podcasts and any idea of their reliability?

#1778 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

If the licence was not fully obtained them why did he even go ahead with this

Quoted from spfxted:

What I don't totally understand is....when you make up a playfield, backglass, toys, etc...you show a license. I went to Staples to get one of my scripts copied. They wouldn't do it until I proved I had the rights!
Did EVERYONE just make up this stuff on his word??

Did you guys listen to the podcast? Not saying he's 100% right (neither does he) but he makes some really convincing arguments. His take on the licensing is that they probably had it.....and it probably expired. You have to pay to maintain it.....probably a lot.

#1779 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Did you guys listen to the podcast? Not saying he's 100% right (neither does he) but he makes some really convincing arguments. His take on the licensing is that they probably had it.....and it probably expired. You have to pay to maintain it.....probably a lot.

I'm not a buyer, but this brings up a good question, that I've been thinking about. If it takes a loooong time to build 3 pins in a basement, how long will 250 take, and how long will you need to keep the license activated. I'm not an expert and not trying to add fuel to the fire (no need to at this point), but do the licenses work for a period of time, or number of pins, or both?

#1780 4 years ago

So just throwing this out there.. it maybe looks like the only thing holding Predator back might be finances </assumption>. You can buy just about any license with enough cash. So, if in a week we hear that Predator is absolutely a go... but at 6K a pop or thereabouts, how many would still be in?

#1781 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

Can anyone give a short summary of these podcasts and any idea of their reliability?

First, I'd recommend listening to the Coast2Coast podcast, it's 40 minutes of time well spent.
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com/ [episode 142]

But he basically reviews the history of Predator project as reflected in the Pinside discussion threads over the past few years. He points out a number of "red flags" that raise serious questions about the status of the project (all of which have been thoroughly discussed here by now, of course) and then describes a recent email exchange with Kevin of SkitB.

So it's not new information, really, just a thoughtful summary and look-back at how this project has evolved and how truly serious the questions about it's ultimate success are now.

As I said, worth a listen!

#1782 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I could buy a nice Whirlwind with my 3000 or 3600 Can dollars, I would forget about Predator pretty quick once my money was refunded, which is appearing to be another challenge. Please Kevin throw in the towel or address the issues. I'm a serious Predator fan of both films and want this game but I was expecting the major update to be 10 games built and ready to ship, we are in business.

The problem with this is that he is not responding to refund requests. I requested my refund shortly after the first of the last two emails and did not get a response; there are people who have been trying to get their money back for months with no response.

I am beginning to wonder if more refunds will be issued.

#1783 4 years ago
Quoted from Buschjs:

The problem with this is that he is not responding to refund requests. I requested my refund shortly after the first of the last two emails and did not get a response; there are people who have been trying to get their money back for months with no response.
I am beginning to wonder if more refunds will be issued.

Kevin has mentioned numerous times about their special arrangement with PayPal. That being said, I wonder if it would be easier to just contact PayPal and request a refund that way?

15
#1784 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I think Sony would go after him for building them

That Sony is one aggressive company! They even go after people who violate *other* studios licenses!

#1785 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

Kevin has mentioned numerous times about their special arrangement with PayPal. That being said, I wonder if it would be easier to just contact PayPal and request a refund that way?

Makes sense that if you pay for something through PayPal, haven't received the item and cannot get a response from the seller, your next move would be to contact PayPal.

From a quick review of PayPal's policies, depending on whether this was classified by PayPal as a long-term "presale" situation, it's possible that PayPal may have kept some of the money paid to SkitB in "reserve" status (i.e. not available for withdrawal by SkitB), and it's also possible that the standard 90/180 day limits to challenge a transaction might not apply. Only PayPal could tell you if you're still able to get a refund through them or not.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/brc/presale-policy-and-reserves

#1786 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

First, I'd recommend listening to the Coast2Coast podcast, it's 40 minutes of time well spent.
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com/ [episode 142]
But he basically reviews the history of Predator project as reflected in the Pinside discussion threads over the past few years. He points out a number of "red flags" that raise serious questions about the status of the project (all of which have been thoroughly discussed here by now, of course) and then describes a recent email exchange with Kevin of SkitB.
So it's not new information, really, just a thoughtful summary and look-back at how this project has evolved and how truly serious the questions about it's ultimate success are now.
As I said, worth a listen!

What an excellent podcast. Gonna go through the archives and give a few shows a listen.

Like others have said, clear eyed view of the situation.

#1787 4 years ago

Re Paypal...the other day I got this email from paypal:

"Activate this new feature on your PayPal account.
With our new Pay After Delivery feature, you’ll get 14 days for your item to be delivered before money is deducted from your bank account."
Nice feature for any and all transactions.
I listened to the podcast (thks for posting RobT)....worth a listen. If you look at this objectively, not as a customer, too many stormclouds to feel safe in this investment. Like Nate said, the 2 weeks seems to just be an arbitrary time frame...possibly in hopes that whatever serious issues are in the way, can be cleared in that timeframe....but could take longer...or shorter. For all of the community, hope this works out well, esp for those that have ordered.

#1788 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Wow 3 almost done in 3 years, call me in 74 years when my pin is ready.

Lol!

#1789 4 years ago

Skit b newsletter #01

" I say this kind of stuff all the time, but there's one company that deserves a huge "plug" that doesn't come up very often but is at the heart of everything we do and how it relates to you all, and that is PayPal. I know, I know, now I'm essentially giving a plug for the bank, but I promise it is relative (again, especially if you hadn't caught up with us on the forums a few weeks ago). While we're on the unfortunate subject of potentially unethical opportunities, I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that your investments are safe. Through the conventions that we've worked through with PayPal, not only do you get the inherent internet benefit of buying pinball in your underwear (raise your hand if you've bought pinball in your underwear before the internet...anyone?), but it comes with monumental security benefits that guarantee that, no matter what happens, your investment is never at any kind of risk. They're taking a big risk on us that they never had to take, and for that they deserve some sincere appreciation."

#1790 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

First, I'd recommend listening to the Coast2Coast podcast, it's 40 minutes of time well spent.
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com/ [episode 142]
But he basically reviews the history of Predator project as reflected in the Pinside discussion threads over the past few years. He points out a number of "red flags" that raise serious questions about the status of the project (all of which have been thoroughly discussed here by now, of course) and then describes a recent email exchange with Kevin of SkitB.
So it's not new information, really, just a thoughtful summary and look-back at how this project has evolved and how truly serious the questions about it's ultimate success are now.
As I said, worth a listen!

He does a great job summarizing the threads but what would worry me is he mentions multiple times about 'inside' info he heard but wasn't able to comment on. If you've ever listen to his other shows it's clear the dude loves pinball and wants to support new pinball any way he can. But the red flags he brings up are reasons I would have to be worried.
Hopefully he is wrong and Skit B can pull this off.

#1791 4 years ago
Quoted from Buschjs:

The problem with this is that he is not responding to refund requests. I requested my refund shortly after the first of the last two emails and did not get a response; there are people who have been trying to get their money back for months with no response.
I am beginning to wonder if more refunds will be issued.

Is he legally responsible to issue refunds? Can't believe no one has gone in person to demand one.

#1792 4 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

Skit b newsletter #01
" I say this kind of stuff all the time, but there's one company that deserves a huge "plug" that doesn't come up very often but is at the heart of everything we do and how it relates to you all, and that is PayPal. I know, I know, now I'm essentially giving a plug for the bank, but I promise it is relative (again, especially if you hadn't caught up with us on the forums a few weeks ago). While we're on the unfortunate subject of potentially unethical opportunities, I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that your investments are safe. Through the conventions that we've worked through with PayPal, not only do you get the inherent internet benefit of buying pinball in your underwear (raise your hand if you've bought pinball in your underwear before the internet...anyone?), but it comes with monumental security benefits that guarantee that, no matter what happens, your investment is never at any kind of risk. They're taking a big risk on us that they never had to take, and for that they deserve some sincere appreciation."

And I'm sure that PayPal confirmed all of this in writing as well. Right?

#1793 4 years ago

SkitB.png

#1794 4 years ago

well, if your investment is never at any kind of risk, issuing a refund should be simply a matter of pushing a button...

it is interesting to know that paypal is a guarantor of skitb... assuming he withdrew any funds at all, the "agreement" he has in place with them explicitly puts them on the hook for that cash if he doesn't deliver...

i was not aware that paypal is now in the venture capital business....

#1795 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

what would worry me is he mentions multiple times about 'inside' info he heard but wasn't able to comment on

Yeah, whatever info he had that he wasn't comfortable disclosing didn't appear brighten his analysis of the publicly available facts. But I thought his discussion was really based on the publicly available info, and he did a good job of explaining why, in hindsight, the specific red flags that have popped up over time are really troubling (as well as why many of them may not have thrown people at the time).

#1796 4 years ago

To me, the implication was whatever he's heard "off the record" isn't at odds with what has been posted here on pinside, or he would have said so.

#1797 4 years ago

I agree but then why zero mention of it on the website and the video pulled from youtube? Like I said I do understand that the terms of the licence might prohibit this but why not tell us, I cant show the game on the website due to the licence, you see what I mean. I just want the game and starting to panic.

#1798 4 years ago

It's too bad Kevin can't post a copy of the license agreement.

#1799 4 years ago

I took it the other way. He specifically stated he had credible info from several unrelated sources going all the way back to expo. Since his conjecture portion of the podcast was heavily slanted towards a license issue, one could speculate that his opinion and the info he received jive. He even proffered a possibility or scenario where the license was never acquired; amongst other possible liscensing scenarios. He went over and over the license issue. That to mean speaks volumes of what he was really wanting to say. Just my interpretation though. ::shrug::

#1800 4 years ago

I wonder how happy/angry everyone would be if Kevin divided whatever amount of cash remains, evenly among all the buyers.
Say you were each out $500-$1000.
Wouldn't that be ok given the current events?
Crappy, but not a complete train-wreck or worst case scenario.

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