Anaheim, CA
The Kuleks deserve all this!!!
(Topic ID: 108377)
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Quoted from blueberryjohnson:It's interesting how the kulek defenders despair one family's losses while so casually dismissing the losses of hundreds of others.
I agree with this. Its unbelievable they continue to defend them. They dismiss it like it never happened. Crazy....
Quoted from DanQverymuch:I've lost more money over the years from deadbeats at the daycare center I own, who run up huge bills promising to get authorized for state assistance and then never do and disappear, than all of you put together did on Predator. $45K so far this year alone. No sense in even suing them, it'd be uncollectable. Should I start stalking their Facebooks? Or should I wait until they have a fire or something?
"Karma" (as if) goes both ways...
Seems like after you got burned once you wouldn't keep chancing it all the other times. Hey if they can't pay for daycare up front then they need to take there kids to grandma's house, certainly not to your place. Once bitten, twice shy.
John
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Getting ripped off sure brings out the worst of some people...
The victims of the Predator "scam" where they lost a nice chunk of change (that, face it, for the most part they could afford to lose and were hoping for a BBBesque return on their "investment", but it did not ruin their lives) actually have so little empathy that they imagine that somehow deliberately getting flooded out, uprooting a family of eight who barely had a pot to piss in in the first place, is another "scam" to garner public sympathy and relief (aka handouts)? Unbelievable.
For two seconds, can you try to see it from others' point of view? How can you think we all don't come across looking like a bunch of rich assholes? It can't possibly reflect well on our community.
I've lost more money over the years from deadbeats at the daycare center I own, who run up huge bills promising to get authorized for state assistance and then never do and disappear, than all of you put together did on Predator. $45K so far this year alone. No sense in even suing them, it'd be uncollectable. Should I start stalking their Facebooks? Or should I wait until they have a fire or something?
"Karma" (as if) goes both ways...
The only ones I feel bad for is there kids, and the only reason they have that mold ridden house is from money they scammed.
A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
Bless your poor bleeding heart.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
So how much did you donate to help them out?
Quoted from guyincognito:A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
I would agree with you except this was not a failed business, this was clear fraud.
They would not have "gambled" their money if theft was not the reason.
No Toy was to be able to be made.
If you feel otherwise, please, I have a Predator spot available from someone at half price $2500.
Ill send you my Paypal address, and after you send me the funds Ill send you my toy.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
That is a bUNCH of BS! We were not gambling. Your response makes it sound like people were buying in to try and make a buck. I know you were not around back then, but people were supporting the idea of new pinball, loved the theme, and wanted to buy a game to support what we thought was a fellow hobbyist with a dream.
Seriously, go back and do some research and come back with some tact to your fellow collectors.
If you had any clue, you would realize quite a few had money stolen from them they probably could not afford to lose. They were supporting, not gambling.
Just exactly who said they lost everything? The Kulecks?
We know how trust worthy they are.
If you lived on a flood plain wouldn't you tuned in to weather reports and flood warnings?
With all those lap tops you could easily track the weather move the vauleables to higher ground.
I do truly feel sorry for the children. They don't deserve this hardship.
It is ironic that the flood has caused this grief. Reminds me of a man I know that once walked on water. It is also said in that same book: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7.
In other words, Karma is what it is.
I don't see Kevin anywhere in regards to this catastrophe. Where is he? He should man up and try to rescue the family. Yet instead he is invisible and absent. I think he is worthless and a shame to the children. Yes, I do feel sorry for the children. But Amanda, Kathy and Kevin cannot hide behind this series of events. They are responsible for the Predator mess that they concocted. Kevin et al is no victim. Taken to court, judgment ruled, yet Kevin flaunted the law and didn't pay up. I have no sympathy for him. If I don't receive payment (and I suspect I never will), I'll have to settle for justice and see him in jail.
Quoted from VacFink:There's been an alarming transition to this thread and its happened somewhat organically, but feel like it needs to be pointed out, because maybe some or maybe most of you may not realize it.
I have always believed Pinside to be a community of good people trying to help one another and create a haven of like minds and interests in that spans the globe. The Kuleks have taken advantage of that and harmed the community, and healing and getting past that requires some justice. I felt like that was the purpose of this thread and checked in from time to time to see if we'd gotten that, for the community, so we could move past it. Hard lessons in hand and closure enough to focus on creating things again.
Recently though this has become less and less about pinball and a pinball community problem into something quite different. Its become a platform to coordinate a seemly vengeful attack on these people.
I want to be clear, what Kuleks have done and are doing now isn't morally right, and those working to try to call that out beyond the realm of this forum and the predator issue, have every right to do what they are doing and seems like legal actions. I just wonder if Pinside is the place to coordinate that and celebrate its results.
I'm not suggesting if you feel like there's moral injustice in seeing what you believe to be a new Kulek scam shouldn't be left idol, and referencing the predator problem is part of that, but it isn't pinball, and I'm not convinced it makes pinball or pinside a better place.
The attention that's coming will bring to this forum new people, many of which are NOT interested in pinball, and more importantly those that do come with good or curious intent, won't see a positive side of pinball, and that isn't good for pinball either. Other too might come only to attack those taking action from this platform. That is also harmful to the hobby and this sanctuary we call our forum.
This seems to have grown organically from a lot of emotion from sincere places, but think its taken on it's own darker form that's no longer about justice for a pinball community problem.
I'm hoping bringing this up puts enough lens on it that we bring it back to pinball and the pinball communities issue. I'm asking for myself as someone who cares about this forum. I'm suggesting that pinside is not the place for derogatory and vindictive action and to take it someplace else, so that the damage and seeds of that negative action can sew its reward someplace else.
If it doesn't then we won't heal, and will be poisoned by these people's dealing beyond the initial incident. What good is that?
I think if there was ANY contrition on the Kuleks part, things might not be so harsh, but they continue to slap people in the face in court and online. Again, their lives should be he'll until the end of time or until everyone is payed back. I have a feeling it's going to be a long long process.
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Getting ripped off sure brings out the worst of some people...
The victims of the Predator "scam" where they lost a nice chunk of change (that, face it, for the most part they could afford to lose and were hoping for a BBBesque return on their "investment", but it did not ruin their lives) actually have so little empathy that they imagine that somehow deliberately getting flooded out, uprooting a family of eight who barely had a pot to piss in in the first place, is another "scam" to garner public sympathy and relief (aka handouts)? Unbelievable.
For two seconds, can you try to see it from others' point of view? How can you think we all don't come across looking like a bunch of rich assholes? It can't possibly reflect well on our community.
I've lost more money over the years from deadbeats at the daycare center I own, who run up huge bills promising to get authorized for state assistance and then never do and disappear, than all of you put together did on Predator. $45K so far this year alone. No sense in even suing them, it'd be uncollectable. Should I start stalking their Facebooks? Or should I wait until they have a fire or something?
"Karma" (as if) goes both ways...
This post is as unclassy as it gets. Shame.
Perhaps KeithinMI should reign in all folks in this lawsuit and discuss on a conference call the latest status and where he sees things going. He should try to get everyone on the same page and maybe limit the harsh commenting online. You don't want the judge giving any more sentiment/leniency to the Kulek's than he already has. You want to win the battle. I think some are just struggling with the length that this has been drawn out and it seems unending and they just had to blow off some steam. That's done now, but maybe Keith can give some healthy perspective. Just a thought.
Quoted from Enaud:I do truly feel sorry for the children. They don't deserve this hardship.
Agreed, but this is what happens when people like this are allowed to reproduce. It's a vicious, never ending cycle.
Quoted from lancestorm:Perhaps keithinmi should reign in all folks in this lawsuit and discuss on a conference call the latest status and where he sees things going. He should try to get everyone on the same page and maybe limit the harsh commenting online. You don't want the judge giving any more sentiment/leniency to the Kulek's than he already has. You want to win the battle. I think some are just struggling with the length that this has been drawn out and it seems unending and they just had to blow off some steam. That's done now, but maybe Keith can give some healthy perspective. Just a thought.
I don't think we're going to see Mr. Awesome posting here anytime soon. Did he delete some of the posts where he called himself awesome? If so, I wonder why?
Quoted from MrBally:I don't think we're going to see Mr. Awesome posting here anytime soon. Did he delete some of the posts where he called himself awesome? If so, I wonder why?
What's the current status of the Adversary Proceeding against Clay? 
Quoted from Razorbak86:What's the current status of the Adversary Proceeding against Clay?
What Adversary Proceeding against Clay
I know both women and can tell you birds of a feather flock together. The reason Ms. Kulek's friend ("best friend" and mentor of Ms. Kulek) doesn't bat an eye at the Kulek's actions is because she could be just as big of a CON artist as the woman she's defending.
Quoted from Superchicken:New comment on the news station web page.
"Haters-
Listen!!!!! I have known this family on a personal basis for MANY years. They are NOT, I repeat NOT the negative things you misinformed MOB claim they are. They are normal people who have normal lives. The case in which you cry about is a crock of sh!t!!!
The lawsuit that was almost THREE years ago is over a TTTTOOOOYYYYYYYYYY and damn TOY you insensitive mongers!
You are saying awful things- things that heartless people say. Is that what kind of human you are???? What the he!l is wrong with you!!!??? You should be ashamed of yourselves. YOU dont know this family in anyway shape or form. You are boo-hooing over a toy you lost???? You cant be serious!!!!
You need to STOP!!!! IMMEDIATELY.
This family is in dire need! You are out here complaining and bashing them while they are struggling through the hardest thing that has ever happened to them. They didnt deserve this! No one does! Not even you as you spew hatred!
I know it is a difficut concept to grasp but GROW UP!!!! Attempting to sabbotage this family and making them appear horrid over a lawsuit over a childs toy from 3 years ago only makes YOU look like an azzhat!!!!!
I plead that your hunt to hurt comes to an end! I pray that YOUR family or friends NEVER have to endure this SERIOUS situation and i KNOW that in the event they ever do.... THIS family would never be as cruel as you all are being. You truly should be ashamed of yourselves! Truly
Thank you, Melissa"
To Melissa.
Please help the Kuleks with a donation for the toys they stole or funds.....sorry WE didnt "Lose" them.
A minimum of $500,000 should cover it.
Im sure since you know them well, they will pay you back shortly. You trust them. We dont.
Signed
MOB
Man Opposed to Bullshit
Quoted from Mike_J:Agreed, but this is what happens when people like this are allowed to reproduce. It's a vicious, never ending cycle.
Yup. Can't fix stupid.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
Ignored. Buh bye.
Quoted from flynnibus:What you expected them to pick up everything and move the house? They could have been trapped long before the peak of the flood anyways so that data proves nothing. They probably got out after realizing the incident was going to be a longer event and when the water kept rising.
People get flooded all the time without fear of physical harm... that's why people don't flee flood warnings. It's when the flood turns to historic levels or long term stranding that people needed to get out ahead.... and often they just wait too long and can't drive out.
In the grand scheme - proactive action would have changed little... saving their cars would probably been the biggest thing
No you don't move the house, but you take the warnings, remove your family, and as much valuables as possible before the crest (like perhaps a travel trailer). Then leading up to the crest comes sandbagging if you can. Some can't sandbag, which was very likely the case with the Kuleks, but at least you get out before having to call an emergency rescue. Those that get caught in historic floods are likely those that don't listen to good advice. The grandma saying, "Don't think you can beat this." clues me they had warning, but stayed the course to a disastrous end. Sound familiar.
Quoted from hoededoor:I know both women and can tell you birds of a feather flock together. The reason Ms. Kulek's friend ("best friend" and mentor of Ms. Kulek) doesn't bat an eye at the Kulek's actions is because she could be just as big of a CON artist as the woman she's defending.
That would make sense.
Quoted from CNKay:I feel bad, the new furnace you guys bought last winter is ruined.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
Does anyone know who holds the current record for down votes on Pinside? If so, I would love to know the magic number. guyincognito might be attempting a new world record.
London
Quoted from PinSinner:Does anyone know who holds the current record for down votes on Pinside? If so, I would love to know the magic number. guyincognito might be attempting a new world record.
Kaneda, both percentage-wise and sheer numbers.
Melbourne
Quoted from robertmee:Lol....I had to chuckle....last reply in the Facebook comments are from Wayne Gillard calling Amanda a liar and a thief....Wayne of all people.
Help you guys anyway I can!
Villejuif
Quoted from PinSinner:Does anyone know who holds the current record for down votes on Pinside? If so, I would love to know the magic number. guyincognito might be attempting a new world record.
I don't have the exact figure in mind, but he is far from the record.
I did not downvote guyincognito... although I lost $4,750 in the Predator debacle.
Kevin affected by the flood? I won't cry over it.
5 kids losing everything? Now I feel sorry for them. My lust for vendetta does not go that far. Call me soft-hearted if you want.
These people are liars and thieves. Who's to say buying this house in a flood plain wasn't part of their plan? Once the flood hits make an insurance claim for possesions that never existed and come out way ahead in the end.
Quoted from captainadam_21:Who's to say buying this house in a flood plain wasn't part of their plan?
I think we've pulled enough layers back at this point to understand the brain trust we're dealing with, and it's laughable to consider that there is any sort of master plan.
Quoted from guyincognito:A poor family lost their home and possessions.
A bunch of gamblers lost out on a unnecessary toy.
The lack of perspective highlights how petty and vindictive adult children who've had their toys taken from them, can be.
Melissa? Is that you? It may too late to add the 
to the end of the post.
Quoted from PinSinner:Does anyone know who holds the current record for down votes on Pinside? If so, I would love to know the magic number. guyincognito might be attempting a new world record.
About a year or two ago there was a guy who posted a video of a victim leaving a voicemail wanting to buy an extremely price jacked game. He posted a clickbait thread titled "You're Not Gonna Believe This!" and received over 200 thumbs down for it including pages of verbal backlash. The thread is gone (I can't find it no matter how hard I try) but I believe he holds the record for worst post on the forum.
Quoted from Nibbles:Are you basing that off of a guess? Or do you know more than people that have talked with Keith? Hell, read the legal docs and you'd know half of that is false. It starts to fall apart when you have actual facts, which are not fully shared on Pinside, and are not just arguing for the sake of making yourself feel important.
Oh yeah, I want to feel so important....
110 K to the cabinet maker...we know where that went....to pay for 250 cabinets...check. Legal or not? Probably not
Cabinets that were produced, got artwork. Artwork was designed and paid for .....check
Parts were purchased and paid for, other than the skulls, .....check
Money to build the prototype(s) and for the shows(expenses)...check
What is 50% wrong? I am not defending Kevin here, but just trying to be realistic on how much money there really was, that's it. I believe its ALL gone.
Karma and mother nature got these lying bastards. But fuck, do we really need to facilitate a total ban on basic necessities for food and clothing? There are 5 kids involved. Let them hang out to dry through the courts and hopefully some jail time.
Quoted from Crash:About a year or two ago there was a guy who posted a video of a victim leaving a voicemail wanting to buy an extremely price jacked game. He posted a clickbait thread titled "You're Not Gonna Believe This!" and received over 200 thumbs down for it including pages of verbal backlash. The thread is gone (I can't find it no matter how hard I try) but I believe he holds the record for worst post on the forum.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/yall-aint-gonna-believe-this
Pedophile gamblers from an adult website. That's their spin?
Hey Kuleks I know you read this thread. Go f*** yourselves trying to characterize victims of your scam in that light. You're shining examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Don't bother Googling that I'll just tell you. You're too stupid to realize you're stupid and the courts will take care of you. Thank God for the court system as our seemingly last line of defense to reign in mouth breathers like you.
Your children are another story. They deserve a roof over their heads, bellies full of food, a warm bed with dry sheets and all the happiness and wonder that children need so they can grow up and solve the problems we adults created for them. I wish for you the same I wish for my children. Get the house cleaned up, get on with your lives and be the decent parents I know you want to be.
to those saying it's a toy and it's only 4500 just think of this - that 4500 refund might make a difference on something else - like maybe a surgery for your dog - now in my situation I sold a lot of my toys to keep my pup alive and it didn't matter whether I had the predator toy to sell as I had others.
others might not be so fortunate - so it might not seem like a lot to some of you - but that 4500 might have meant a lot to somebody on the list of who got ripped off. just something to consider.
I would have been more then ok if he came out and said I can only return 50% as I spent 50% on development, promotions and parts. I would have been ok with that. he just flat out decided to rip everybody off of the remaining money.
just my thoughts and opinion as I am one of the ones who got RIPPED off.
thanks ed
Quoted from edcianci:others might not be so fortunate - so it might not seem like a lot to some of you - but that 4500 might have meant a lot to somebody on the list of who got ripped off. just something to consider.
Agreed.
I know for a fact it mattered a lot to some people. There were people who saved for years to be able to purchase predator because it was their dream.
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