(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#15951 1 year ago

Evil keithinmi stated that he would sign copies of the application to employ Keith M. Nathanson PLLC as Special Litigation Counsel “so you can have your own collectible item from the case.”

keithinmi also stated in the same post that “(BY THE WAY IF YOU DON”T GET THAT THIS IS JUST HUMOR, THEN I AM TELLING YOU NOW, IT IS).”

However, MALETICH/VIRTUAPIN's attorney does not mention that part since it establishes that she is cherry-picking quotes out of context .

Cherry Picking Quote (resized).JPG

#15952 1 year ago

In order for keithinmi’s statements to rise to the level of libel, keithinmi MUST know they are false when he makes them… it’s possible that they are false, BUT the point of the legal proceeding is to establish that they are false (in which case MALETICH is off the hook) or are not false (goodbye CNC machine).

Who wants to bet keithinmi is shaking in his boots?

#15953 1 year ago

Jeez isn't going after keith just like poking the bear...

#15954 1 year ago

How dare people who were cheated talk to each other.

-3
#15955 1 year ago

Other "evidence" included in Exhibits 1 & 2...

keithinmi is a successful and competent attorney. He has a lambo, plays bass, likes sci-fi and pinball, but FAMILY comes first.

Looks like the "LEGEND" of keithinmi is just going to keep growing and growing!

#15956 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

Other "evidence" included in Exhibits 1 & 2...
keithinmi is a successful and competent attorney. He has a lambo, plays bass, likes sci-fi and pinball, but FAMILY comes first.
Looks like the "LEGEND" of keithinmi is just going to keep growing and growing!

keithinmi enjoys long walks on the beach and watching perry mason reruns on tv. Don't recommend f'ing with him him in the courtroom.

16
#15957 1 year ago

Funny how they want to use forum posts to make their case, yet they left out forum posts from VP assuring people that the predator license was legit, and then admitting he had done no due diligence to verify that was true when it came out that it wasn't legit.

#15958 1 year ago

When Keith......

pasted_image (resized).png

15
#15959 1 year ago

Wait, so VP are complaining that their business is in the toilet because of what's been written on Pinside by that Evil Keith? (I hear he is a real piece of work).

How on earth did they think that threatening to sue for defamation would fix their public image?

He said here he'd been busy working to try and get peoples money back, what exactly was he so busy doing?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion/page/237#post-3357914

Capture (resized).PNG

#15960 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

keithinmi is evil. Our business is suffering due to Pinside’s awareness of legal proceedings against us. We’re suing keithinmi for libel (even though keithinmi HASN’T actually written about us on Pinside) because people have been reading publicly available court documents

20
#15961 1 year ago
Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!
Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest.
Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Paul Maletich
President - VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc.
http://virtuapin.net

Quoted from NoahFentz:

LOL.
It's currently in production, along with PREDATORs!

Quoted from NoahFentz:

The cabinet guy is in the same boat as everyone else!
To: "Greg Wells", "Mr. X.", or whatever pseudonym you'd like,
I didn't replied to your anonymous email, as I had yet to see or hear any hard facts. As of this morning, I have fully read Martin's expose and followed along with this topic. I simply cannot fathom the license being a lie, even to this day. How can someone so blatantly jeopardize 4 hobby-related businesses without any regard for their futures?!
Nonetheless, I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines. I would now like to speak personally with a Fox representative regarding the matter. I would not be doing my own due diligence if I fail to follow up in light of all the recent developments.
As I understand it, it's not an easy task to contact them, so I ask ...
Please put me in touch with Fox, so I can get some firsthand answers to the questions I need answered. I have a lot invested in this project, and I will be exploring my own recourse in this matter.
You have my email, if you want to continue to be anonymous.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I sure did, and for that, I sincerely apologize. I was given every reason to believe it was fully licensed, as was every pre-owner and other vendor.
Kevin even let me stick my neck out there, just to get it cut off knowingly. For that, he will never be forgiven.
I'm just as pissed as every here, as I have a lot to lose over this fiasco, too.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I'm not sure why the 'cabinet guy' keeps coming up. The 'cabinet guy' is a company, VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc, not some dude building cabinets in his garage. We were contracted to do a job, that's it.
Since 2013, we've started and stopped production on these cabinets 5 or 6 times, hired and trained staff FOR the job, moved into a larger facility to better handle the job, and purchased equipment and materials to finish the job. THOUSANDS of dollars were pissed away and bridges burned with suppliers for a job that never actually took place.
We will be more than happy to complete the job whenever Skit-B is ready. Until then, we've been burned just like everyone else on this project.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

If they didn't have the license in order, then they wouldn't be ready.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Just to be clear, of course money changed hands, it was business.
Ice, being a CPA, you probably know very well how costly it is to move a business (twice, in this case, to share space the second time with his commitment falling short after the fact), staff and train, insure them, pay them, etc. It was dragged out over such a long period of time (2.5 years?). How many times did he announce we're going into production? Each time we ramped up, got ready, and then just shut it down.
In the end, no pile of money, burnt bridges, awkward conversations, and, off course, this thread.
I have not heard from Kevin in months. Not since he lied to me right up until the very end, by telling me they were still being built, just not by him, and I still had the cabinet job.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Look, I was lied to, just like the hundreds of "preowners" and other vendors. The only mistake here is, we all bought into it. After being strung along for over two years and starting and stopping production multiple times, it became a losing venture for us.
I came into this thing in 2012. By that time, he had a damn good story established, and no one doubted his licensing. I wanted nothing more than for people to get their machines in a VirtuaPin quality cabinet, and I, personally, worked very hard to try to make that happen.
Assume all you want, theorize all you want, we lost big on this ordeal.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Conveying what one believes to be true is not a lie.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

If you knew anything about, well, anything, you'd know I approached Gary, Roger (who took it to WMS legal), and various other IP holders, and they all support what we do. We're preserving pinball history through software simulation, and have done so for over 15 years now, as a community.
What really should be clarified is your involvement in a very similar site, hosting illegal hacks and recreations of games that are NOT on the okay list, like Metallica, for example, or any SAM system games, for that matter.
You were not only an admin at said site, you still help with development of said site, do you not?
Amazing to me is the gall you have slinging accusations at me, when what we do has been okayed, and you're the one whose ethics are questionable, at best.
You can stop the smear campaign now. Anyone paying attention can see you do nothing but follow my posts, denouncing at every available opportunity. It's clearly a personal vendetta. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

And I believed Skit B had the license. We'll all have a turn being mistaken. Such is life.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

And for that, I've apologized. I feel horrible about it.
I hope you can understand that I was duped, like the rest of you. I had five years of really hard work establishing my company jeopardized by his deceit. I'm on the same side as you on this.
I've even offered my assistance to the investigation. That's all I really can do.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I am more than happy to discuss. After the accusations, name calling, and slanderous statements, I've been quite put off about providing any insight.
When I got involved, it wasn't a scam. At least, I didn't think it was. That was 2012, and I offered to build his cabs, because the one he had looked like SH*T. By that time, he had been to dozens of shows with it, so I assumed he had been vetted by show organizers, etc.
After getting involved, I realized the project would probably never happen, because he just didn't have everything setup to completely build them, so I introduced him to people in the industry that could help him accomplish his goals. To be totally forthcoming, he NEVER would have made them without my involvement, at least in my opinion.
We took a deposit on cabinets. That part's true. It's not even close to the amount I've seen people post here, though. We were contracted to do a job, and Kevin defaulted on our agreement. He did drop a deposit, and that deposit was lost as soon as he defaulted. He did receive a number of cabinets and many, MANY hours of our services in the R&D and prototyping stages, so I'm not sitting on a pile of money, as I've read in some posts here. It wasn't $200K or some ridiculous figure. It was in line with the job.
Once the licensing concerns came up, I drilled him for more info. He would tell stories about how Fox was approving the artwork on the playfield, what needed updating, which sound clips and video could be used, etc. I was 100% convinced he was legit, or I never would have gotten involved in the first place!
After hiring staff and setting up for production the 3 or 4 times he announced they would begin, I was losing my ASS. That's when it all fell apart. He lied to me right up until the end, when he claimed they're still going to be built, just not by him, and we'd still be building the cabinets.
I have fully cooperated with PayPal and other entities in an attempt to get people their money back. I certainly don't deserve to be in the same category as Kevin. I've worked hard for everything I have, and it's done a lot of damage to my reputation, sadly. I'm an honest guy who got involved with the wrong company.
Feel free to call me if you have any questions (248) 252-6871. I have absolutely nothing to hide. The name-calling and false accusations here have left me quite bitter. If I hadn't been wrongly accused of the things I've been accused of here, I would be happy to be more forthcoming with my experience. I'm even willing to testify on the buyers' behalf if there's ever a criminal trial.
I never took a dime from you or any of the "pre-owners". I worked hard to try to ensure everyone would get what they paid for. I definitely feel I deserve better treatment around here, as we have a lot to offer the community.
Kevin is the bad guy here, and I feel I've been persecuted simply because I'm not afraid to be a member of this community, and he's in hiding.
The whole situation sucks.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

By your logic, there's more than a half dozen companies that are no longer legit. Marco, Pinball Life, Spooky, Back Alley, Pinball Refinery, and VirtuaPin, just to name a few, have all sold products and services to Kevin for his Predator project. They're all great companies and great guys who don't deserve the accusations. We were all trying to support boutique pinball, as pinball is our passion. None of us deserve to have our names dragged through the mud.
I really wish things had turned out differently. I was doing the job for next to nothing in the end just to help Kevin meet his BOM on $4750 per unit. There wasn't much there to work with. In the end, it's definitely COSTING me.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

You are mistaken that we were the only company involved with products containing IP. You may want to do your research, especially before slandering anyone further.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I told you I'd be forthcoming, so I will correct you ...
We DID print and apply the decals. As soon as the licensing issues came to light, we destroyed all printed materials and deleted all art files from our system. It's not something I'm proud of.
We didn't design them, though.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

This post has a bit of a backstory.
It came at a time when we were FINALLY ready to start producing cabinets. Kevin was showing a growing concern for the project, as people were getting restless. I contacted him and asked if he'd like me to post some pics and show people progress. He asked me to hold off until some licensing issues were addressed. Of course, I asked him again about the license, and he declared everything was fine.
After another week or two, I asked him again, and he said something along the lines of, 'Go for it, everything is good with the license.'
So, I did, and I don't think there's a single regret in my six years in business larger than posting that. He threw me right under the bus. I suspect he knew full well what he was doing, but he was hoping to somehow salvage the project. Maybe his hope was to do it under the radar. I don't know. Only Kevin can answer that question for us.
I have to say, unfortunately, I trusted Kevin. We traveled a lot of road together introducing him to people and going to Expo. He shared his dad's story and many personal stories with me. I believed in the guy. I really did.
Needless to say, I'm tired of 'taking the rap' for him here.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I was unable to reply to this yesterday, but here's my thought ...
If you're a show organizer, and you put images of, in this case, Predator pinball on your programs and USE IT AS A DRAW to your show, you damn well better vet it. I know of at least two shows that paid for freight to get it to their shows and paid Kevin's expenses. Sounds more legit when you think of it like that, doesn't it? That's how I saw it.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

That's a damn good question.
I have tried running the numbers in my head, and I can't imagine he spent it all. I do know of other purchases that made me shake my head, especially when there was at least one guy who worked for Skit-B that quit his job and burned numerous professional bridges to be a part of the project on 'promises'.
I can say the artists who did Predator and EOD were paid in full, and I told Kevin it was a mistake. They should only get paid as machines shipped, but to no avail.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

You forgot a ridiculously over-sized trailer to haul his new motorcycle, four wheelers, other ATVs he bought for himself and the kids, including all new riding suits for the kids. It was posted on his Facebook back when he bought all that shit. Another headshaker, as the aforementioned 'free employee' was telling me he was losing his HOUSE, because he made the choice to quit his profession for Skit-B. He shit himself when I showed him all that stuff Kevin bought.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I was told $24K, so with closing costs and other fees, that's about right.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

He was a contractor who burned his referral bridge. Ouch!
I believe it was you who said Kevin must be one hell of a story teller? It's true. It's damn true.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Scott!
The statement was "VirtuaPin used to seem "legit" to me too until I found out you went ahead and took money for a project you didn't know was above board or not."
Nothing to do with endorsements, only that we took money for the project. We certainly weren't the only ones to do that.
I realize it was a mistake, but that is indeed the power of hindsight. I regret it every day. I'm going to be a MUCH tougher sell in the future on projects like these.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Um ... I think I've been more than forthcoming, and I have also accepted the responsibility for believing Kevin. No 'sloughing' here.
That being said, if you're going to USE A PROJECT AS A DRAW TO YOUR SHOW, you should at least make sure it's legit. No blame at all on show organizers. Trying to express how it only serves to lend credibility to his story.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Is there any wonder why I don't post?
Kevin picked up the cabs, and that's the last I've seen them.
I didn't take ANYONE's money, guys. Kevin did. Please stop with the FALSE accusations.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

As far as I can see, there is no right answer here. No matter what I say or do, someone is going to twist it, turn it, and embellish it, or call me a liar to make me look like I'VE done something wrong. I didn't.
I took a job, and the contracting company defaulted. Skit B owes you guys money. Go after them. I will absolutely help if this goes to court, and since this isn't the place for a deposition, I'll just apologize, again, for not realizing Kevin was a liar and try to recover from the damage to my reputation this whole situation has done.
I will be there for you guys (pre-owners, not trolls). Just keep me informed, Hilton.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I've been absolutely honest. I just feel there's a line to be drawn on just what's appropriate/inappropriate on a pinball forum, and asking for a company's specific financials is over the line, in my opinion.
I had a nice chat with Hilton yesterday. Very enlightening. The proper people will know everything in due time.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I didn't 'disappear' anywhere. I'm currently working on behalf of the 'pre-owners' to get them their money back, and it doesn't require posting to do so.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

One thing I'd like to add ...
The 'fancy new CNC machine' I have here retails, new, for less than 4% of our annual revenue.
I didn't need Kevin to BUY it for me. The job facilitated the need for one. I've read a lot of bullshit figures here. Who pulled $60K out of their rear, anyway?

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Not sure where you got that figure, but it's incorrect.
See why I don't post on this topic? All it does is feed more conspiracy theories.
I'm trying to help, and I'll continue to do so without posting.
Thank you.

16
#15962 1 year ago

just quoting for posterity as somethings get edited.

#15963 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

Evil keithinmi stated that he would sign copies of the application to employ Keith M. Nathanson PLLC as Special Litigation Counsel “so you can have your own collectible item from the case.”
keithinmi also stated in the same post that “(BY THE WAY IF YOU DON”T GET THAT THIS IS JUST HUMOR, THEN I AM TELLING YOU NOW, IT IS).”
However, MALETICH/VIRTUAPIN's attorney does not mention that part since it establishes that she is cherry-picking quotes out of context .

Pretty much 'why we can't have nice things' and why lawyers are so unhelpful outside of actual council... others trying to dig up crap like this :/

Hopefully we still get meaning posts from Keith.

#15964 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

Ok, here are my thoughts re: MALETICH/VIRTUAPIN's counterclaims (or, as I call them "laughable attempts to intimidate keithinmi").

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell."

10
#15965 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Hopefully we still get meaning posts from Keith.

keithinmi isn't going to address any of MALETICH/VIRTUAPIN's claims on Pinside (or basically with anyone who isn't part of the lawsuit) directly...

However, I am continuing to follow this case and will post his response when it is filed in court.

13
#15966 1 year ago

The virtuapin team appears to be grasping for anything to try and push back.

I'm excited to see Keith's response.

#15967 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

keithinmi isn't going to address any of MALETICH/VIRTUAPIN's claims on Pinside (or basically with anyone who isn't part of the lawsuit) directly...
However, I am continuing to follow this case and will post his response when it is filed in court.

I don't believe we will see keithinmi post anything case related until this is all over.

#15968 1 year ago

Does any of the virtuapin response have anything to do with... you know... where the money went, and why they don't need to pay it back?

14
#15969 1 year ago

Evil Keith

Evil Keith (resized).jpg

#15970 1 year ago

So when's the next court date for this side of things?

#15971 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Does any of the virtuapin response have anything to do with... you know... where the money went, and why they don't need to pay it back?

Yes, starting on page 10 of the most recent filing.

#15972 1 year ago

Where are the horns?

Also bass needs to look more "pitch-forky" (it's already red though so that helps)!

#15973 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

Yes, starting on page 10 of the most recent filing.

Thanks, I see. So their main defense is that the payments were 2+ years ago. For bankruptcy court that might be enough I suppose.

10
#15974 1 year ago

Maletich made some bad business decisions, and should be held accountable. He should not be allowed to benefit in any way from this fiasco. Let's hope the facts are revealed and justice prevails.

And for the record, my opinion of Paul Maletich was formed by reading Paul's ("NoahFentz") own comments here.

#15975 1 year ago

I once had respect for VirtuaPin due to their cabinet design...

11
#15976 1 year ago

wow. suing the attorney who's trying to help the pinball community.
that has next-level douchebag written all over it.

aren't there some unemployed veterans groups or school for the blind children VP'd have more fun suing?

i'd say that's straight up grounds for permanent removal from pinside & definitely worth discussing with folks who run game events all around the the U.S. and world that this community enjoys attending.
i'll be sure to inform the thousands of my facebook group members about this as well.

Let me make sure I have this quote 100% correct, unlike VP's legal team.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys! I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed! Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest. Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

grandma-mad-1.jpg

#15977 1 year ago

That dyed black beard is kinda evil

10
#15978 1 year ago

I hope the younger people here understand the joke about the Goatee beard meaning Evil.

The original Star Trek series had an episode called Mirror Mirror where the ship gets sent to an alternate universe where they meet the evil versions of themselves; and the evil men version all had the beards. The joke has lasted decades.

South Park did a spoof episode called Spookyfish. The evil version of Cartman was good.

evilcartmaniq9 (resized).jpg
Spock_(mirror) (resized).jpg
Evil_Boys_-_Spookyfish (resized).png

I wonder if . . .

imagesE5T1XHND (resized).jpg

#15980 1 year ago

That was a really fun read. Thank you.

I got a call on Monday from a friend that is editing the new Predator. He didn't give me a date, but asked me to come to a screening. I'm all, "fuck yeah!.. you know how I threw money away on a Predator pinball that I'll never have, right?'

I wasn't exactly looking forward to seeing the new flick until I found out my buddy was editing, now I'm all jazzed on Predator again. Good prevails in the end.

Ya hear that, Kevin?

#15981 1 year ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

That was a really fun read. Thank you.
I got a call on Monday from a friend that is editing the new Predator. He didn't give me a date, but asked me to come to a screening. I'm all, "fuck yeah!.. you know how I threw money away on a Predator pinball that I'll never have, right?'
I wasn't exactly looking forward to seeing the new flick until I found out my buddy was editing, now I'm all jazzed on Predator again. Good prevails in the end.
Ya hear that, Kevin?

Maybe he could hurry up and get the license on the "new" Predator?

10
#15982 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Maybe he could hurry up and get the license on the "new" Predator?

I don't think he'd have the right number for Fox. With it just entering the theatres, he'd still have a good 3-6 months before the DVD comes out.

#15983 1 year ago

Regardless of a license or no license

Virtual pin was paid for goods not supplied

13
#15984 1 year ago

Hilton...sometimes...YOU ROCK.

If VP does not drop this countersuit - Noah will waste time and money on nothing(legal costs). This shows where his real motivation lies. He has zero thought of us as victims and views himself as the "real" victim here. Also, he is extremely naive and gullible. He is getting sold a bill of goods by his attorney. Good on them for recognizing a mark and fleecing him of everything they can. Does not help us any. Can anyone read that post from Hilton and NOT think of VP as complicit?

To re-emphasize - Keith is the best collector I have EVER seen. And that includes guys who collect with bats If he actually gets $30k from witch wife...I might move just to be closer to him. Hope that some of whatever he has rubs off by osmosis. He is getting into 11/10 territory now.

#15985 1 year ago

So where's Virt's Pin contract? 250 cabs is not a large amount. Skit B was going to pf's in his basement, and get out like 5 to 8 pins a month? So why would a business move to a larger space for that? All it did was raise his overhead.
Doesn't make good business sense. Hire more employees to build 5 cabinets a month? Should be able to do that in a day. That story doesn't sound like it holds water.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

#15986 1 year ago

Sounds like a free shop upgrade to me. Well, not entirely free. It did cost him 6 cabinets.

#15987 1 year ago

From what we have read, Virtuapin/Noahfentz/Paul deined taking anything more than a deposit for games to be built.

It seems (allegedly) that he received mutlple payments of just under 10k and the total was over 110k. It seems Paul thinks he is the victim and that once Kevin defaulted on his contract (does a contract even exist?) that he gets to keep this "deposit"

Question >> Is there any feasible way that the courts would allow a 110k deposit to be kept after delivery of 10? cabinets on an illeagal production?

I am not sure how this information coming to light is supposed to help Paul in his mind.

Keep in mind that Paul and I spoke at one time and he fed me a whole line about being committed to helping out and getting money back that he was given. I explained to him that the best way to get into the good graces of the community and earn more busienss would be to be up front about what he took in payment, what he delivered, and to simply give back the funds to the lawyer for the difference. Doing so would have made him a hero in the eyes of the community and surely would have brought him tons of sales.

Instead he continually denied taking anything beyond a minimal deposit. Then it comes out he took over 100k (likely 20-30% of the total funds taken in by SkitB) and this was only to deliver 175 cabinets.

I am looking forward to the public court records which eventually show this supposed "CONtract" and what he actually delivered (keeping in mind that he will also have to admit to delivering decaled Predator cabinets which FOX is going to love)

30
#15988 1 year ago

It is my own opinion that Paul took advantage of Kevin and tried to use him to forward his own company.

It is also my own opinion that Paul took in money for goods he never delivered, and now owes that money or goods back to the Predator trustee.

I hope the court sees it that way as well.

#15989 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It is my own opinion that Paul took advantage of Kevin and tried to use him to forward his own company.
It is also my own opinion that Paul took in money for goods he never delivered, and now owes that money or goods back to the Predator trustee.
I hope the court sees it that way as well.

Exactly

#15990 1 year ago

I think Paul saw an opportunity to grow his business in a big way and overlooked the myriad of warning signs. It is true that at that point Kevin appeared to be on the up and up, as most folks were drinking the koolaid, but putting you whole business on the line requires a higher level of due diligence then putting money down on a Predator machine. Paul seemed to claim he had done that due diligence, but it certainly appears that was not the case.

As it said in the doc, Kevin told him he wanted 10 per day, and thus the reason Paul was growing to meet that demand (which then was lowered). The plan was for Kevin to set up shop in the same complex so the cabinets could easily be moved between facilities. It also said that Paul did require a deposit and then additonal payments and he did indeed spend some, if not a large chunk, of that money. His lawyer obviously hit hard on it was more than two years before the bankruptcy, so therefore was not tied to some movement of funds to hide it from bankruptcy.

To believe Kevin was ever going to 10 a day is somewhat laughable. Even if he could, why would he? and why would Paul go along with that? Assuming that could occur is a pretty risky thing and did he really think Kevin was going to gear up to that volume and be done in 5 weeks? Then want, you have this huge overhead and no work to do. Even with the announcement of EoD, there is just nothing there that makes you see a 10 per day need on any sustainable level. Heck, two cabinets a day, which he likely could have already done with his current setup, would have likely gotten it done.

As we have seen with JJP and Heighway, attempting to go real big fast, when there is more you don't know about the business then you do know, is a recipe for disaster. Just hard as a business guy to see how this huge expansion could have made sense for virtuapin.

I can understand why Paul feels he owes no money back, he took that money in good faith and spent that money accordingly (or so he claims). Of course, that assumes that what he is saying is truthful and he can show it was not a move to make illegal transfers. What is interesting is that while the counter claim has pages of Pinside posts, I don't recall seeing paper work on the contract with Kevin or invoices/receipts for delivery of product to Kevin, although there was talk of the receipts and payments for the CNC.

I am no lawyer, so I have no clue relative to what rights the estate has to money paid, well before bankruptcy, to a vendor. Although I would assume that unless he can show a contract with terms indicating these payments were non-refundable (which would not be unheard of in a situation requiring a business to buy equipment, expand, etc., and I have been involved in deals that have done that), then not sure he has a valid claim against refunding money paid to him for cabinets not delivered.

Obviously Paul is not helping his position in the community with what he is doing, but I get that he is trying to save his business. However, it appear that he may be doing just as much damage to his business and reputation with this action, then whatever damage has been done to his reputation as a result of the action against Kevin. Again, no lawyer, but seems hard to seen how he can prove the damage to his business was a result of Keith vs him choosing to get into bed with Kevin.

While Paul did not set out to be a part of the fraud, he made poor business decisions, and that does not relieve you have responsibilities and liabilities. Paul losing on this, could certainly result in his business declaring bankruptcy, so while he can blame Kevin for part of that, the big part of that sits on his shoulders.

#15991 1 year ago

I'm not so sure. I remember after I listened to one of the audio court files I did this post -

Quoted from Taxman:

No wonder Paul went silent last fall. He is admitting to taking ~$100K in money and never checking the license. He only produced 6 cabinets (but had expenses). Some money transfers are documented in the form of 6 sequential numbered checks for $9,800.
And here is the kicker - He provided Keith with "the location of certain items the debtor had been concealing such as Motorcycles, trailer, racing suits". His lawyer's words "concealing"!

While he "might" have been tricked at first about the licensing, those 6 sequential checks show [to me] he was trying to hide something.

The revealing of "concealed property" shows he knew what Kevin was doing with the money. It just makes it look like he thought if he threw Kevin under the bus he could get away with his chunk. Now that he has to give it back he's in a panic.

at 24:06
https://soundcloud.com/user-800669943/1ap2017-02002-20170504-133936

-4
#15992 1 year ago

looks like i just unearthed some trolling Kevin Kulek supporters & haters of Keith who is trying to help the pinball community.
sadly 1 of them is in the Dallas, Texas area, Chet. I'll be sure to share you hatred of the pinball community to everyone in Texas & at all the shows. Hell, you're probably the guy who stole the signs from the TPF show this year.
This other clown is a new account, from what I can tell is located in Michigan (how about that). No telling who that is (yet).

Beware of any prapoganda/lies these 2 may spill out there about how great Kevin Kulek is.
Keith, please keep these 2 on your radar for possible legal connections. They may have information that could be useful for you, the case, and the community, given their choice of PUBLIC support for Kevin Kulek's financial scam & collaborators.
Given their support of VP's lawsuit again Keith, they may also likely be recipients of funds from the community, to Kulek, to VP & then to them.
I'd ask that the pinside owner (Robin) / team & mods please keep records (location, PM's current & deleted), & posts) of these 2 user accounts as Keith may need more information in the future to support him in the lawsuit again Kulek's & this recent legal assault on him by VP.

Screen Shot 2017-06-22 at 9.39.25 AM (resized).png

Screen Shot 2017-06-22 at 9.37.01 AM (resized).png

12
#15993 1 year ago
Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys! I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed! Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest. Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

Let's see here...

Webster defines the word "Certain" as the following:
a : dependable, reliable a certain remedy for the disease
b : known or proved to be true : indisputable. It is certain that we exist

So, you certainly, without question, knowingly lied to the community, because it was NOT "CERTAINLY" true PREDATORS were licensed. Publicly influencing the community to keep deposits & full payments with a scammer & his/their network of collaborators who took money but did not deliver products.

S H A M E

shame-1.jpg

#15994 1 year ago
Quoted from labnip:

looks like i just unearthed some trolling Kevin Kulek supporters & haters of Keith who is trying to help the pinball community.
sadly 1 of them is in the Dallas, Texas area, Chet. I'll be sure to share you hatred of the pinball community to everyone in Texas & at all the shows. Hell, you're probably the guy who stole the signs from the TPF show this year.
This other clown is a new account, from what I can tell is located in Michigan (how about that). No telling who that is (yet).
Beware of any prapoganda/lies these 2 may spill out there about how great Kevin Kulek is.

Jesus christ get off your bandwagon (Edit:soapbox?) dude. Maybe they down voted you because of this

Quoted from labnip:

wow. suing the attorney who's trying to help the pinball community.
that has next-level douchebag written all over it.
aren't there some unemployed veterans groups or school for the blind children VP'd have more fun suing?

Likening a bunch of pinball geeks that got duped by a goddamn illiterate pirate to Veteran's & blind children is certain(t)ly enough to get a downvote. Now settle down you crazy kids

#15995 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

To believe Kevin was ever going to 10 a day is somewhat laughable.

This stands out as a huge point. I don't want to say it should have been a red flag because that's not really fair to the buyers who were excited at the time. But, to put this into perspective, let's look at Stern and Spooky. Stern can make 50 pins in a day. Spooky can make 2 a day and we know that they have 12-15 employees. A handful of guys might be able to make 2-3 a week once they get the hang of things.

#15996 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Spooky can make 2 a day and we know that they have 12-15 employees.

Sure sure, but how flooded is their basement when them make them?

#15997 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Sure sure, but how flooded is their basement when them make them?

Any standing water in Spooky's area tends to be frozen.

-2
#15998 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Jesus christ get off your fucking bandwagon (Edit:soapbox?) dude. Maybe they down voted you because of this

Likening a bunch of pinball geeks that got duped by a goddamn illiterate pirate to Veteran's & blind children is certain(t)ly enough to get a downvote. Now settle down you crazy kids

feel free to fuck off. also, i don't belong to your religion/cult, so please keep those references to yourself or at least contained within your weekly cult meetings.

so, you're telling me to not post about the theif who is suing Keith now? What the hell is wrong with you?!?
Please feel free to drain all posts by me. I "Certainly" will not miss your negativity & misdirected anger.

#15999 1 year ago
Quoted from labnip:

feel free to fuck off. also, i don't belong to your religion/cult, so please keep those references to yourself or at least contained within your weekly cult meetings.

You're usually a reasonable person, are you off the meds or just drunk today? What cult would that be? Oh man I can;t wait to hear this one

-2
#16000 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

You're usually a reasonable person, are you off the meds or just drunk today? What cult would that be? Oh man I can;t wait to hear this one

i put it in bold mr profane.
maybe you can join their lawsuit against Keith as well. You "certainly" seem interested in trying to shut people down who speak up about it.

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