(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#101 4 years ago

Lol, I called a similar number and now have the rights to Full House...

#102 4 years ago

Ok, so then Kevin called the phone number on the back of the Predator dvd box and got the license. As long as it was documented, everything should be cool.

#103 4 years ago

http://www.pinheadz.com.au/podcast/ppp003-pinheadz-pinball-podcast-ep3-the-greatest-v-the-newest/

1 hour 4 minutes in there is a 30 minute interview Kevin explaining the license and some music and game play. Great interview

-2
#104 4 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

Ok, so then Kevin called the phone number on the back of the Predator dvd box and got the license. As long as it was documented, everything should be cool.

Is it really that simple to get a license for an iconic brand like Predator? Arnold Famously charged Farsight $60,000 to use his likeness in their digital version of T2 Pinball just last year. You can image that based on that the license for predator would be extremely expensive.

#105 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Is it really that simple to get a license for an iconic brand like Predator? Arnold Famously charged Farsight $60,000 to use his likeness in their digital version of T2 Pinball just last year. You can image that based on that the license for Predator would be extremely expensive.

Do some research before you speak. Listen to the podcast I posted.

-3
#106 4 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Do some research before you speak. Listen to the podcast I posted.

I have listened to it: of course.

10
#107 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Down Simba!

Quoted from Whysnow:

I don't know what the hell this even means but I take it as a personal attack. You may want to go back and read the rest of the TOS you quoted before.

LOL!

This reminded me of the time Panzer got offended by someone calling him "Tank"!!!!! Though this isnt as rich with irony, its silly all the same!

#108 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I have listened to it: of course.

If you have listened to it then why all the trolling about licenses and costs. You must be very bored or just love drama. Especially when you aren't even buying one.

27
#109 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Down Simba! That was not my angle here.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I don't know what the hell this even means but I take it as a personal attack. You may want to go back and read the rest of the TOS you quoted before.

OT: ^Says the guy who probably holds the 2014 pinside record for personal attacks, sorry dude your fake selective outrage is weak! You jump from thread to thread bashing people and games and then fall back to a thread like this one and cry foul on everyone for doing the same thing you do in other threads.
In the last week you have:
1. Spazzed out on Tigerlaw (probably the most decent Mod on these forums)
2.Called Rick at PPS a liar (pretty sure that's a personal attack)
3.Had countless fits and been thrown out of multiple threads

Honestly dude after you freaked out on Tigerlaw I'm suprised you weren't retired permenantly!

Maybe you are the one who should go read the TOS rules.

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

If I wanted to stir up bullshit I have more than enough information to do that.

What are you saying? You have undisclosed, known only to you negative information? Because that is what that sounds like you are saying.

#111 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Is it really that simple to get a license for an iconic brand like Predator? Arnold Famously charged Farsight $60,000 to use his likeness in their digital version of T2 Pinball just last year. You can image that based on that the license for Predator would be extremely expensive.

Disclaimer: I know little to nothing about licensing

It's slightly OT, but I find those Farsight Kickstarters a bit.... over the top shall we say? Don't get me wrong, I like the product, but I find the dollar values overly high for old IP (that Arnold was notoriously supportive of back in the day I might add) and the crowd funding a bit unnecessary especially past the first one. The fact that it CAN be crowd funded to the tune of $10+ dollars per person suggests to me the kickstarter isn't necessary and they should just price the licensed table higher in game and they would make their money back. Of course they would then have to take a "risk" as a business that their 60k of licensing wouldn't be completely covered pre-release... you know, kinda like a real business

10
#112 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

What are you saying? You have undisclosed, known only to you negative information? Because that is what that sounds like you are saying.

That's absolutely what he's saying, his demeanor in this thread is nothing but negative. His intentions do not come across as genuine. The only information he really has to stir things up is speculation. Id rather this thread get closed down too, im not sure why some of these guys have an agenda against Skit-B but it's getting old. All of us buyers are in a holding pattern right now so if any new information comes from Kevin it will be in an email.

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Is it really that simple to get a license for an iconic brand like Predator? Arnold Famously charged Farsight $60,000 to use his likeness in their digital version of T2 Pinball just last year. You can image that based on that the license for Predator would be extremely expensive.

A lot of it depends on what the original contract with the actor stipulated. Most did not care much about this until Star Wars, which really showed how much a licensing could be worth. Even still, most producers try to keep the rights for exactly this reason. I remember Carrie Fisher joking how George Lucas 'owns' her likeness, and that every morning when she looks in the mirror she has to send him twenty-five cents.

The rights of the actors can be very different for different movies. Same goes for using sound alikes for things. It was seem on TBL they had some lee way regarding that, at least for their promo video with 'the stranger', since that was not Sam Elliot. Based on comments at expo, clearly other actors had greater control.

One would assume that as Arnold becomes a bigger star, he had the clout to control this on his later movies. I would tend to think that the studios fight hard to keep the rights, so, I'm sure only "A list" actor ares able to negotiate to keep high levels of control.

Making a phone call on the back of a DVD probably did not get him the license, but it likely was the start of a bread crumb trail that then got him to the right person.

Keep in mind, the studio that distributes a film, is not always the one that has the licensing rights. There are also companies that manage licensing for a rights holder.

#114 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

*in no way am I using these words as a personal attack. Merely defining them in case others wanted to know the urban definitions of them in case you want to use them in the future.

you forgot to put in a smiley face afterwards

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I have heard that Williams and Bally would make 10-15 "Sample Games" to put in the wild before major production to try and control quality and get feedback. Do you think they will do this with Predator? Build 10-15 samples? Or are games 1-10 the first samples beyond the demo machine?

You can not compare Skit-B to William's style of production, we are talking about a start up company compared to the Williams Manufacturing Company, founded by Harry E. Williams that has its roots back to as far as 1943 and at one point made 20,270 units of one game.

Skit-B will be doing exactly what Spooky is doing now, shipping "production games" as they make them for their customers and making changes along the way as needed it's that simple.

#116 4 years ago

I would have to agree, when dealing with a "boutique", you are not dealing with a company factory line made game.

But the owners should be going into that with their eyes open as well.

13
#117 4 years ago

We've looked into licenses - 50-75K plus a piece of each game is pretty normal.

The Farsight stuff seems about right - remember they don't Kickstart original theme B/W games, just the ones that were licensed at the time and have since expired. By pre-selling enough to cover the license cost (ie, the costs above and beyond a normal pinball port) they ensure success.

Addam's Family was always going to be expensive - Raul Julia is dead and the movie itself had a nebulous production / rights issues (started as Orion, ended as Paramount, based off earlier license, etc)

There is talk of a Predator "reboot" (because it's an 80's movie people have heard of) and Shane Black (the guy with glasses who made bad jokes) is now a Big Deal Again after directing Iron Man 3.

If someone had made a Big Lebowski pinball after it bombed it theaters they could have gotten the rights for a song. But now it's a cult hit = expensive. Same thing will probably happen with Army of Darkness, should someone go after it. There's an Evil Dead show coming with Bruce Campbell, which will make the old movie more desirable now.

Likewise, best time to make a Firefly pinball would have been right after Fox cancelled. But now Joss Whedon is An Even Bigger Deal so those rights will go up as well.

The moral of this story? If you're a middling success in Hollywood, direct ANY Marvel film and instantly became AAA list.

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

we project we will be able to move about 40 units per month when we hit our stride.

40 units a month? Wow... Who is building their machines? I am curious if they are doing this themselves or working with somebody else to have it assembled, tested and packaged up. I apologize if this info has already been posted. I know that Virtua Pin is building their cabinets.

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

We've looked into licenses - 50-75K plus a piece of each game is pretty normal.
The Farsight stuff seems about right - remember they don't Kickstart original theme B/W games, just the ones that were licensed at the time and have since expired. By pre-selling enough to cover the license cost (ie, the costs above and beyond a normal pinball port) they ensure success.
Addam's Family was always going to be expensive - Raul Julia is dead and the movie itself had a nebulous production / rights issues (started as Orion, ended as Paramount, based off earlier license, etc)

Fair enough. If that's the price, so be it. I still disagree with crowdfunding in principle for many but not all applications (pinball and non-pinball alike). I don't agree with companies shifting risk and/or responsibility to the customer unless we are talking about non-profit style work or very niche projects but I will concede that Addams Family would be one Pinball wild card where crowdfunding seems appropriate due to the nebulous nature of securing it.

#120 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

40 units a month? Wow... Who is building their machines? I am curious if they are doing this themselves or working with somebody else to have it assembled, tested and packaged up. I apologize if this info has already been posted. I know that Virtua Pin is building their cabinets.

I'd be curious to know how many Spooky "thought" they could build, before settling on the reality of 2 per week.

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Fair enough. If that's the price, so be it. I still disagree with crowdfunding in principle for many but not all applications (pinball and non-pinball alike). I don't agree with companies shifting risk and/or responsibility to the customer unless we are talking about non-profit style work or very niche projects but I will concede that Addams Family would be one Pinball wild card where crowdfunding seems appropriate due to the nebulous nature of securing it.

Farsight did Kickstart an Addams Family port and it was their most expensive by a long shot - just over 90k. It succeeded though.

Frolic, I think Chuck tried for 3 but dialed it back for QC.

#122 4 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

Wasn't there a pod cast interview with Kevin talking about how he got the license from fox? Does anyone remember what Kevin said regarding how he got the license in the first place during a pinball convention? I thought this was stated a while back?

Quoted from jlm33:

There was. From what I remembered, he mentioned there was a phone number at the back of the Predator DVD box... he simply called that number. (I am not making this up, right?)

Yes, Kevin talked about getting the Predator license during their Expo 2012 seminar which can be heard here, starting at the 4:20 mark:
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2012/predator.mp3

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Farsight did Kickstart an Addams Family port and it was their most expensive by a long shot - just over 90k. It succeeded though.

Yeah I saw that and great for them and the fans. Shame I hate TAF

#124 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

I've never been thread banned even once.

Until now.

#125 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Fair enough. If that's the price, so be it. I still disagree with crowdfunding in principle for many but not all applications (pinball and non-pinball alike). I don't agree with companies shifting risk and/or responsibility to the customer unless we are talking about non-profit style work or very niche projects but I will concede that Addams Family would be one Pinball wild card where crowdfunding seems appropriate due to the nebulous nature of securing it.

What I like most about Farsight's model is that when they do succeed in funding a title, they carry the excess funds over to the next Kickstarter. That's why they have such weird target goals. ($97,640)

#126 4 years ago

Whysnow's avatar looks extremely appropriate right now.

#128 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Frolic, I think Chuck tried for 3 but dialed it back for QC.

I believe there are 2 minions working at Spooky?

So 2 people = 2 machines a week. I'll be curious to hear if Skit-B has 10 people to get 10 machines per week out the door.

Has anyone heard much about who is the building team? I'm just curious how they arrived at the 40/month number. They've been pretty clear about it, with giving people expected dates of their machines based on it.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from CarShark:

What I like most about Farsight's model is that when they do succeed in funding a title, they carry the excess funds over to the next Kickstarter. That's why they have such weird target goals. ($97,640)

I'm 100% sure it's not true, but I feel like they can pick and choose whatever numbers they want and claim 'carry over'. Like car salesmen playing with a trade in appraisal vs purchase price of a new vehicle - you just shift the 'end value' and/or 'perceived value' of the item(s) so you can discount or offset losses/gains in a more palatable way for the consumer

Like I said, I'm sure this is NOT what Farsight do and those are legit licensing costs, but this is my cynical viewpoint on the 'carry over' price.

#130 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Has anyone heard much about who is the building team? I'm just curious how they arrived at the 40/month number. They've been pretty clear about it, with giving people expected dates of their machines based on it.

The Skit B team is building the games and that 40 games per month is just a estimate which most likely will not be reached until they get down the line of building the product day in day and day out. Just like Spooky building their games predators will slowly coming out and it will ramp up with experience they learn along they way.

#131 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballfantexas:

The Skit B team is building the games and that 40 games per month is just a estimate which most likely will not be reached until they get down the line of building the product day in day and day out. Just like Spooky building their games predators will slowly coming out and it will ramp up with experience they learn along they way.

Just curious, has anyone done the math on the production numbers for JJP on WoZ?

Forget what they SAID they were building/week/month, but looking at the total number actually shipped divided by the number of months since production began?

#132 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Just curious, has anyone done the math on the production numbers for JJP on WoZ?
Forget what they SAID they were building/week/month, but looking at the total number actually shipped divided by the number of months since production began?

JJP built approximately 900 LEs and 600 standards between May 2013 and Sept. 2014. You can probably add 20-50 Ruby Reds to that estimate.

#133 4 years ago

Two weeks of asking to be refunded and nothing. I think the guy calling Predator a scam may have been on to something. My bad for trusting these guys.

#134 4 years ago
Quoted from MarcG:

Two weeks of asking to be refunded and nothing. I think the guy calling Predator a scam may have been on to something. My bad for trusting these guys.

Ok, so anyone reading these Predator threads AND has contact with Kevin please get the two of them together and get this sorted out now. This is BS!

#135 4 years ago
Quoted from MarcG:

Two weeks of asking to be refunded and nothing. I think the guy calling Predator a scam may have been on to something. My bad for trusting these guys.

Same thing. I asked for refund too about two weeks ago and nothing.

Maybe we should start another thread with who requested refund and got nothing? Or put "scam" in the title. That seemed to get the other guy refund pretty quick

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from splitskull:

Same thing. I asked for refund 2 weeks ago and nothing.
Maybe we should start another thread with who requested refund and got nothing? Or put "scam" in the title. That seemed to get the other guy refund pretty quick

When you requested a refund did you request it through support or kevin or both?

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

When you requested a refund did you request it through support or kevin or both?

both

#138 4 years ago

Did you get a response at all? Or did they just go unanswered?

#139 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Did you get a response at all? Or did they just go unanswered?

I got a response about two weeks ago from support.

"Hello Victor,
We will begin the refund process immediately. Please allow a few days as
this process does take some time.
Thank you,
Skit-B Support"

Since then, nothing. I sent another email last week asking them (both Support and Kevin), how much longer going to be a few days. Didn't get any response so far.

#140 4 years ago

Ok, so I just sent an email to support@skitbpinball.com to ask them if they would get these two people (MarcG and splitskull) their refunds. I don't know either of them and definitely don't have connections with SkitB (other than being a customer). My email may not do any good but I gave it a shot. There may be valid reasons for the delays but I'm not getting into that kind of speculation. I'm just hoping that SkitB will contact these folks and get the refunds to them as they have requested; no more, no less.

#141 4 years ago

My refund from JJP took about 5 weeks.

edit - LOL . Because if a big company takes that long I don't expect the little guys to do any better.

#142 4 years ago

Im thinking it's gonna take quite a while to get refunds. I know it's not you guys problem but since these are more than likely being made at cost I doubt Skit-B has any extra cash on hand to send refunds, also for every guy that requests a refund a person on the wait list has to be contacted and payment sent before a refund goes out for that spot.

#143 4 years ago

I understand that will take time and is not instant. But, the answer from support came 2-3days after I asked. And if they say a few days, and not a few weeks or a few months, then is a few days. They know what they are talking about, right? I mean I hope they do. And I think I'm past a few days here.

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from splitskull:

I understand that will take time and is not instant. But, the answer from support came 2-3days after I asked. And if they say a few days, and not a few weeks or a few months, then is a few days. They know what they are talking about, right? I mean I hope they do. And I think I'm past a few days here.

I don't disagree with you, just throwing it out there what's more than likely going on. Have you signed into paypal and checked? Or did you send a check?

#145 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I don't disagree with you, just throwing it out there what's more than likely going on. Have you signed into paypal and checked? Or did you send a check?

PayPal. Full payment. And yes I checked.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

since these are more than likely being made at cost I doubt Skit-B has any extra cash on hand to send refunds

There is no way that these are being made at cost.

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

There is no way that these are being made at cost.

The sum of its parts may not equal $4750 of which Skit-B has only asked for $3000 at this time but you have to factor in all vendors, tooling for certain parts and also paying a crew for assembly and if this is a full time job for Kevin he has to pay his bills. Its a lot less money than you think.

#148 4 years ago

I would expect a longer wait on the refund front. My assumption is they spent most if not all of the money on parts to assemble the games per SkitB email. There is likely no money to facilitate a refund at this time. Once they start shipping and request final payment then you'll likely get a refund - but you're looking a few months out (only my guess).

I wonder if there still is a waiting list. And if there is, I don't think Skit B wants to mess around with collecting money, refunding money, writing checks for more parts they missed, and hoping they keep all checks & balances in order. It's all a big distraction for a small shop. Thus, part of why I think they are going a little dark. Kick out a few games to first 10 owners and then everyone will get the "exclusive 250 & Predator" fever again. Bet on people who asked for a refund will opt now to stay in instead of admin processing nightmare. Educated guess on my part - no facts.

Not saying this is right since they stated a return policy that should allow for your money back now. I'm just guessing reality is setting in and different than they expected.

#149 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

I would expect a longer wait on the refund front. My assumption is they spent most if not all of the money on parts to assemble the games per SkitB email. There is likely no money to facilitate a refund at this time. Once they start shipping and request final payment then you'll likely get a refund - but you're looking a few months out (only my guess).
I wonder if there still is a waiting list. And if there is, I don't think Skit B wants to mess around with collecting money, refunding money, writing checks for more parts they missed, and hoping they keep all checks & balances in order. It's all a big distraction for a small shop. Thus, part of why I think they are going a little dark. Kick out a few games to first 10 owners and then everyone will get the "exclusive 250 & Predator" fever again. Bet on people who asked for a refund will opt now to stay in instead of admin processing nightmare. Educated guess on my part - no facts.
Not saying this is right since they stated a return policy that should allow for your money back now. I'm just guessing reality is setting in and different than they expected.

Again.. if "support@skitbpinball.com" says a few days... I expect to be a few days.

If there is no money for a refund in a few days, someone is hiding something. And trying to lie about it. And I don't want to go there with my assumptions yet.

#150 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

JJP built approximately 900 LEs and 600 standards between May 2013 and Sept. 2014. You can probably add 20-50 Ruby Reds to that estimate.

So about 24 a week over that span. If Skit-B is going to be making these themselves, I highly doubt they will be making 10/week. Look at Jack's line and facility. There is nothing wrong with either method, but I would expect SB to be much closer to Spooky than JJP.

And ONCE THEY GET STARTED, what's the rush? I know orders want their games, but if they get started and they make 4 a week in the beginning, big deal. Manufacturing fascinates me and I love when I get to see how different groups make their pins. This one is no different, hope the process gets shown and people get their games.

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