Quoted from PinRebel:

Looking back at that thread that's pretty lame if that was the case because I don't understand why he was told to stop discussing something there in the first place and I'd be upset too. But I heard he used some bad language with that moderator and then he was frozen. But that seems pretty lame also if it was done in a PM and not publicly. Pretty extreme.

Quoted from PinRebel:

What does this mean and why is that bad?
I was only referring to that last thread he posted in that you noted. It just reads like that moderator had an issue with him personally, first.

Quoted from PinRebel:

You are seriously misguided here. There is nothing illegal about him owning a prototype game that never went into being manufactured. Nothing. Your anger should only be directed at that Kevin guy.

Quoted from PinRebel:

It was never a production game and never will be. It was a prototype that traveled to many shows. I have no idea why that has anything to do with the apparent money that is owed to pre-order people. There is apparently hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting out there somewhere and you are worried where the prototype went? Go find the money before Kevin spends it all at auctions and elsewhere.

Quoted from PinRebel:

Only that he never handed any money to Kevin and never dealt with Kevin in any way from what I understand. He bought it from someone else. I don't know how long ago the prototype was sold or given away but it may certainly be long before any legal action was started.

Quoted from PinRebel:

He responded to me a little bit ago on Facebook. He has it but not under the circumstances that people have said. Apparently someone on here contacted him on Facebook in a very threatening manner to him and his entire family. I'm kind of sickened now how people on here are responding and my part for mentioning I know him.

A little strange that you seem to have just edited your post to remove your comment that you need to unfreeze him and let him respond directly to the accusations and threats here. And it seems a little ironic that his last comments on this site were to discuss the dangers of pre-orders and lack of openness and you basically told him to shut up in that Alien thread that LTG referred to.
Reading back through the comments here, why is there no moderation of the threats and personal attacks on him especially since he cannot respond? Why is this mob mentality allowed to grow? This is disgusting to allow him and his family to be threatened and if you think your occasional comment that Pinside does not condone threats is enough to relieve you of responsibility I think that is sad.

Quoted from PinRebel:

As a lawyer, do you believe it is legal to publicly solicit parties to join what could be considered a class action lawsuit in the state of Michigan? To solicit people to provide information on class action litigation? That seems interesting.

Quoted from PinRebel:

Really? Nothing seems threatening to you?

Nah. Nothing threatening in your mind about comments like these I guess? From what he said of the FB messages and threats it is much more disgusting. But those messages can be traced back to right here from where the unwarranted anger and hate was allowed to grow.

Quoted from PinRebel:

Sorry. It just appeared that you were the person who froze his account so it just seems strange that you were not aware of the extent of his ban or whatever it is. I thought you had stated yourself you were interested in hearing the reality of him being in possession of this game. I have now made more posts on this site then I think I have done in 3 or more years on RGP and feel like a fish out of water. But I do feel very bad for this guy because from what I knew of him he was a very good guy and well respected. I still know him on Facebook and I saw his post a little while back showing the game. It didn't even cross my mind that it was something controversial.
I am not a lawyer just another software consultant but I thought it was illegal to solicit folks or encourage them in any way to join a lawsuit like this especially prior to filing. If you are a lawyer then you probably know more?

Quoted from PinRebel:

That is a pretty serious threat dude. That's not cool. It's creepy enough you stalked him and took pictures of him from a distance. Are you telling us he wasn't driving a Porsche or even a brand new fancy truck? Maybe I'm missing where it was discussed in the past but how is it that out of 250 pre-orders there are only 15-16 people at this point on a lawsuit with this Keith? I thought the majority of the pre-order people were here on this site? Is it possible the majority of people have gotten their money back now and don't want to brag about it or hurt other people's feelings who haven't gotten their money back yet? I obviously don't know the details of how many people are still looking for their refund but inciting people to confront him in a threatening way does not seem right at all. This crap should stop. Let it work through the legal system.

Quoted from PinRebel:

He stated "come back here next month, I DARE YOU". That is very threatening. Not sure how you see it otherwise. That's not right.

You can certainly believe whatever you want but you are absolutely out to lunch. You obviously have no understanding of the legal system dude. He did nothing wrong. Anyone here can build 1 or 2 games of any copyrighted material they want. As someone else said there are apparently a half dozen people on this site publicly doing just that! That is fair use of IP and selling the game for the money you put into building it is not illegal either. Mass producing the game and selling it for profit would have been illegal. But they didn't do that. As far as anyone here knows that I can see Kevin has been reimbursing as many people as he can as fast as he can. You have 15-16 left on this lawsuit with this Keith guy. Maybe 6% of the pre-orders?? WTF?
I don't know if Tim will explain or not but my guess is he would absolutely do it if he could.

Quoted from PinRebel:

Is there not a difference between selling something for the money you put into it and selling something for profit? I specially stated selling it to recoup his costs. Not for the intention of making profit.

Quoted from PinRebel:

Yah, that sounds a little crazy to me too. 250 games goes beyond just creating some fan art or something. But Im really just curious about all the people making custom games right now using copyrighted IP. Can they really never sell those games to recoup costs? Could they even trade those games for something they consider of equal value? Or can it really never change hands technically? I thought as long as they didn't sell it for profit then it was no big deal but I'm definitely not a lawyer.

Quoted from PinRebel:

And why is nobody going bat sh.t crazy over all the people that create pinball toppers and other mods using copyrighted IP? It's everywhere.

Quoted from PinRebel:

I spend half my time contracting to Ford in Dearborn Michigan which is where I met Tim some time ago. I have never met Kevin and know little about him myself.

Quoted from Trekie:

Predator court today? Just some sword rattling over what court should hear the case?

Quoted from roffels:

Then I'd find someone like Whysnow, ask him to pay it forward, enjoy the game and pass it along to another victim

Quoted from flynnibus:

What happens after judgement, who will be running the collection, who pays the expenses, who gets paid first (clients or him), to what limits, etc.

Quoted from flynnibus:

How much time and money are you going to spend to try to recover $4500?

Quoted from Crash:

Do we know exactly how many prototypes were made? I know the latest development is potentially (probably certainly) more than one illegal sale has occurred.

Quoted from flynnibus:

All I can say is... reserve this space for the discussion two years from now
I wish you all the best - but sometimes I think the eagerness leads to running in the dark.

Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Wheels of justice spin slowly....

Quoted from vid1900:

Kevin does not care.
He's still going to auctions and buying games.

Quoted from bigduke6:

I can't believe it ended like this. Wow.

Quoted from Dayhuff:

Not a word !!
John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

Quoted from TigerLaw:

This is a very good question. I suspect the machine will turn up sometime.

Quoted from robertmee:

Can anyone comment on where the litigation stands in general? Haven't heard anything from the attorney here that offered his services. Are the wheels of justice still turning or has ever thing come to a halt? Obviously not looking for specifics if still ongoing just looking for some good news that there's still a possibility money is coming back and kevin is going to jail.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Not surprising at all. He doesn't want to give away publically anything he plans to use in court. No reason to telegraph a punch.

Quoted from cfh:

It's your money not tax money. It was filed in the wrong court. It cost him money to refile. Well your money.

Quoted from maddog14:

twenty days and no updates.

Quoted from maddog14:

twenty days and no updates.

Quoted from Trekie:

Your better off to give him a call. He does respond to phone calls and voice mail.

Quoted from RobT:

Those civil lawsuits are now all stayed based on his filing in the bankruptcy court.

Quoted from RobT:

That involves legal pleadings and hearings, and unfortunately additional legal fees that go along with it.

Quoted from Trekie:

It's just starting to get interesting.

Quoted from NinJaBooT:

you can't seriously think there is any money left?

Quoted from PoMC:

but now it's costing more money

Quoted from PoMC:

more time

Quoted from PoMC:

more aggravation, more stress.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to drop in and say that I would not be building cabinets and printing and applying decals for a project that's not fully licensed!
Anyone that knows me knows I won't even consider touching unlicensed projects!
Speculation can now rest.
Pre-owners can certainly look forward to receiving their PREDATORS.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Paul Maletich
President - VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc.
http://virtuapin.net

Quoted from NoahFentz:

The cabinet guy is in the same boat as everyone else!
To: "Greg Wells", "Mr. X.", or whatever pseudonym you'd like,
I didn't replied to your anonymous email, as I had yet to see or hear any hard facts. As of this morning, I have fully read Martin's expose and followed along with this topic. I simply cannot fathom the license being a lie, even to this day. How can someone so blatantly jeopardize 4 hobby-related businesses without any regard for their futures?!
Nonetheless, I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines. I would now like to speak personally with a Fox representative regarding the matter. I would not be doing my own due diligence if I fail to follow up in light of all the recent developments.
As I understand it, it's not an easy task to contact them, so I ask ...
Please put me in touch with Fox, so I can get some firsthand answers to the questions I need answered. I have a lot invested in this project, and I will be exploring my own recourse in this matter.
You have my email, if you want to continue to be anonymous.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I sure did, and for that, I sincerely apologize. I was given every reason to believe it was fully licensed, as was every pre-owner and other vendor.
Kevin even let me stick my neck out there, just to get it cut off knowingly. For that, he will never be forgiven.
I'm just as pissed as every here, as I have a lot to lose over this fiasco, too.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I'm not sure why the 'cabinet guy' keeps coming up. The 'cabinet guy' is a company, VirtuaPin Cabinets, Inc, not some dude building cabinets in his garage. We were contracted to do a job, that's it.
Since 2013, we've started and stopped production on these cabinets 5 or 6 times, hired and trained staff FOR the job, moved into a larger facility to better handle the job, and purchased equipment and materials to finish the job. THOUSANDS of dollars were pissed away and bridges burned with suppliers for a job that never actually took place.
We will be more than happy to complete the job whenever Skit-B is ready. Until then, we've been burned just like everyone else on this project.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

If they didn't have the license in order, then they wouldn't be ready.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Just to be clear, of course money changed hands, it was business.
Ice, being a CPA, you probably know very well how costly it is to move a business (twice, in this case, to share space the second time with his commitment falling short after the fact), staff and train, insure them, pay them, etc. It was dragged out over such a long period of time (2.5 years?). How many times did he announce we're going into production? Each time we ramped up, got ready, and then just shut it down.
In the end, no pile of money, burnt bridges, awkward conversations, and, off course, this thread.
I have not heard from Kevin in months. Not since he lied to me right up until the very end, by telling me they were still being built, just not by him, and I still had the cabinet job.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Look, I was lied to, just like the hundreds of "preowners" and other vendors. The only mistake here is, we all bought into it. After being strung along for over two years and starting and stopping production multiple times, it became a losing venture for us.
I came into this thing in 2012. By that time, he had a damn good story established, and no one doubted his licensing. I wanted nothing more than for people to get their machines in a VirtuaPin quality cabinet, and I, personally, worked very hard to try to make that happen.
Assume all you want, theorize all you want, we lost big on this ordeal.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

Conveying what one believes to be true is not a lie.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

If you knew anything about, well, anything, you'd know I approached Gary, Roger (who took it to WMS legal), and various other IP holders, and they all support what we do. We're preserving pinball history through software simulation, and have done so for over 15 years now, as a community.
What really should be clarified is your involvement in a very similar site, hosting illegal hacks and recreations of games that are NOT on the okay list, like Metallica, for example, or any SAM system games, for that matter.
You were not only an admin at said site, you still help with development of said site, do you not?
Amazing to me is the gall you have slinging accusations at me, when what we do has been okayed, and you're the one whose ethics are questionable, at best.
You can stop the smear campaign now. Anyone paying attention can see you do nothing but follow my posts, denouncing at every available opportunity. It's clearly a personal vendetta. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

And I believed Skit B had the license. We'll all have a turn being mistaken. Such is life.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

And for that, I've apologized. I feel horrible about it.
I hope you can understand that I was duped, like the rest of you. I had five years of really hard work establishing my company jeopardized by his deceit. I'm on the same side as you on this.
I've even offered my assistance to the investigation. That's all I really can do.

Quoted from Grinder901:

I like how Milton

Quoted from Grinder901:

confident he'll get his revenge.

Quoted from Grinder901:

the system is broken as shit.

Quoted from Grinder901:

I work in law enforcement

Quoted from frolic:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130501000000*/http://skitbpinball.com
You can see the original site and the scrubbed one, but we can't identify the exact date. Old site was still there july 20, 2013. new site was archived oct 3, 2013.
I'm sure the original predator thread would discuss the new website as well.

Quoted from Whysnow:

thanks, will this stuff stay out there forever, or do I need to capture it all somehow?

Quoted from cfh:

There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.

Quoted from cfh:

Again I saw the Tim Fife predator and I was really impressed with it. It had a nice finished look to it. It played well too. Kevin could do it. He just didn't have everything in the right order to make it happen. Licensing was a fiasco, but Kevin thought he had a handle on it. Apparently he was delusional though. But if The anonymous pair hadn't confronted fox, and then fox hadn't pushed kevin, it is my belief that predators would be in production right now. Kevin was convincing enough to pull this whole thing off. Yes there was a lot of sales pitch, potential lies and half-truths so on and so forth. But as long as the wall didn't come crashing down I believe he could've pulled this off. Again if you saw the Tim game you would know exactly what I mean. It was nice, really nice. And it proved that Kevin could make a game in its totality from beginning to end.
The best story to me about the predator was again the ramps. Paul, the cabinet guy, and Kevin went to to see Terry in Chicago. They stayed overnight at Terry's house and we're scheduled for an 8 AM meeting with the ramp manufacturer. This is the same company that makes ramps for Stern.
8 AM rolls around and Terry and Paul are dressed to the nines with nice shoes and button down shirts and nice pants. Kevin appears in torn pants, dirty T-shirt, and that goofy hat he likes to wear. Terry and Paul are like, "dude you have to dress up for this you can't look like that." Kevin says, "I have to be me and this is me."
Needless to say, the ramps were never made. Kevin would have had to cut a rather large check to the ramp company to make it all happen, and he never did that. Instead the only ramps that exist are the two prototype ramps that were made from a course crappy mold for low dollars.
Now that the bankruptcy thing has been declared, a lot of things have changed. The lawyer had to be paid and apparently he was paid in some assets (due to lack of money) from Kevin. The story goes that the assets then were bought by an unknown third-party to cash out the lawyer. So some parts to predator are available. Not enough to make a game, not even close. But My intention is to try and gather as much of the parts as possible and then attempt to make a predator.
Somethings are fairly easy. The cabinet for example is a standard Williams cabinet. The artwork for the cabinet is just black with red lettering that says predator. The back glass is just the DVD reissue box scanned. The playfield and plastics are out there as 10 sets were made. The metal ball guides are available as a local vendor made those and he still has the construction sheets so more could be made inexpensively. Most of the other parts for the top side of the playfield are readily available and used in other games. The ball trough is a stern ball trough. The lower ball arch is a stern ball arch. The computer is a standard PC. The proc boards are readily available. The dotmatrix display is a standard plasma display. The power supply for the DMD is available. The game uses a 48 V power supply for the coils. 12 V switching power supply is used for other things.
There is only one assembly not available and that is the ramps. Unfortunately they are custom ramps made just for predator. If this problem can be solved then a predator could be made. This is my goal but I'm kinda up against the wall with these ramps.
As for the software, I've asked Kevin about that. He is not against letting somebody have it. But you need to have at least somewhat of a game before he will give it up. Right now the biggest issue is the ramps. I'm not sure that this problem can really be solved without some luck and hard work/time/money.

Quoted from cfh:

Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.

Quoted from cfh:

Spooky pinball made the playfields and plastics. He was paid in full. Back alley creations made some of the playfield parts. They were paid in full. I don't think you can make these jumps in logic about stolen goods.
Many invested in a company a.k.a. Kevin. Kevin probably didn't do a lot of things right or even semi right. It may have been noticed that kevin was flighty. Kevins company basically fell apart for a variety of reasons which we've talked about endlessly. Have you ever bought a stock and then the company goes belly up and you lose your investment? That's kind of the way to look at it here. The fact that they were not willing to bring any criminal charges against Kevin is kind of an indication that prosecutors didn't think what he did was criminal. I'm not saying what happened was right. But this kind of stuff happens all the time with companies of all different types.
People make an investment and sometimes they win and sometimes they loose. Believe me I know it sucks there's been plenty of things I've invested in and have lost my butt on. I can tell you all kinds of stories on stuff I've done where it just didn't work out. And a lot of times the guy that was selling the product to me was lying through his teeth. You have to look at the guy, sum up the product, and see if everything adds up.
Just a short story... I was working a guitar show for friend of mine and a guy walked in and distract me while he and his buddy tried to steel some of my friends guitars. I was responsible for those guitars! And how did I get distracted? He was selling me an alleged 1958 Gibson ES 335. It turns out the guitar was a complete fraud but I ended up buying it from them. I ended up holding the bag on that one, I lost thousands of dollars. Was it my fault? To a large extent yes because I believe what the guy was saying. I got played for a sucker, I had to take the heat on that one. Did the cops do anything? No. You can't prosecute somebody for being naive. The best I could do was sue him in civil court. But it just wasn't worth it. I took my lumps.

Quoted from jlm33:

For those who received an email from Keith very recently, can you PM me what you think of it?
(sorry for being cryptic - legal matter ongoing)
I am not giving up - bankruptcy or not (just received my Chapter 7 notification by regular mail today. A little bit late to the party, but I am far away. He really thinks he can escape that easily?)

Quoted from frolic:

I'm now wondering if the IRS is the reason he has no money left. Maybe he did file, cut a big check to IRS, the business itself is/was unsustainable, and now he goes bankrupt.

Quoted from rosh:

I believe Kevin started this on the up and up.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

Is the goal now to strictly try and convince law enforcement something illegal was done? Because it sure sounds like no matter what you do he really does not have any money (he was selling whatever assets he possibly could just to pay his lawyer) and he is perfectly comfortable living a very humble lifestyle. He does not need a good credit score. He did not care before this venture started and he still does not care now. So what is the goal of the legal action?

Quoted from HappyDayz:

On one hand it's admirable that you have the energy to pursue this so that those who helped to recklessly perpetuate the deception are held accountable for the end result. On the other hand, it seems clear there is no chance of you ever getting real satisfaction as they really have no money left and very few assets (as evidenced by Kevin selling everything he had just to pay a lawyer.) No judge will make them sell their very modest home. No law enforcement seems interested in pursuing criminal charges. Look around, it is the end and it is indeed bitter for everyone. Sucks.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

Nowhere near as vocal as you are trying to get folks to spend even more money to pursue it. Pursue all you want! It certainly does not affect me. I could care less. I just think it is sad. Only the lawyers win.

Quoted from Mike_J:

Hopefully, your suit will destroy them financially and emotionally.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

But you won't get money from Kevin if you haven't already.

Quoted from woodworker:

So again, thanks for coming on here and proving that this is indeed making their life difficult

Quoted from HappyDayz:

He has apparently

Quoted from TheLaw:

Of course, we're not privy to what's going on legally

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Crazybanana

Quoted from jlm33:

Kevin, beware.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

I am more than happy to discuss. After the accusations, name calling, and slanderous statements, I've been quite put off about providing any insight.
When I got involved, it wasn't a scam. At least, I didn't think it was. That was 2012, and I offered to build his cabs, because the one he had looked like SH*T. By that time, he had been to dozens of shows with it, so I assumed he had been vetted by show organizers, etc.
After getting involved, I realized the project would probably never happen, because he just didn't have everything setup to completely build them, so I introduced him to people in the industry that could help him accomplish his goals. To be totally forthcoming, he NEVER would have made them without my involvement, at least in my opinion.
We took a deposit on cabinets. That part's true. It's not even close to the amount I've seen people post here, though. We were contracted to do a job, and Kevin defaulted on our agreement. He did drop a deposit, and that deposit was lost as soon as he defaulted. He did receive a number of cabinets and many, MANY hours of our services in the R&D and prototyping stages, so I'm not sitting on a pile of money, as I've read in some posts here. It wasn't $200K or some ridiculous figure. It was in line with the job.
Once the licensing concerns came up, I drilled him for more info. He would tell stories about how Fox was approving the artwork on the playfield, what needed updating, which sound clips and video could be used, etc. I was 100% convinced he was legit, or I never would have gotten involved in the first place!
After hiring staff and setting up for production the 3 or 4 times he announced they would begin, I was losing my ASS. That's when it all fell apart. He lied to me right up until the end, when he claimed they're still going to be built, just not by him, and we'd still be building the cabinets.
I have fully cooperated with PayPal and other entities in an attempt to get people their money back. I certainly don't deserve to be in the same category as Kevin. I've worked hard for everything I have, and it's done a lot of damage to my reputation, sadly. I'm an honest guy who got involved with the wrong company.
Feel free to call me if you have any questions (248) 252-6871. I have absolutely nothing to hide. The name-calling and false accusations here have left me quite bitter. If I hadn't been wrongly accused of the things I've been accused of here, I would be happy to be more forthcoming with my experience. I'm even willing to testify on the buyers' behalf if there's ever a criminal trial.
I never took a dime from you or any of the "pre-owners". I worked hard to try to ensure everyone would get what they paid for. I definitely feel I deserve better treatment around here, as we have a lot to offer the community.
Kevin is the bad guy here, and I feel I've been persecuted simply because I'm not afraid to be a member of this community, and he's in hiding.
The whole situation sucks.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

By your logic, there's more than a half dozen companies that are no longer legit. Marco, Pinball Life, Spooky, Back Alley, Pinball Refinery, and VirtuaPin, just to name a few, have all sold products and services to Kevin for his Predator project. They're all great companies and great guys who don't deserve the accusations. We were all trying to support boutique pinball, as pinball is our passion. None of us deserve to have our names dragged through the mud.
I really wish things had turned out differently. I was doing the job for next to nothing in the end just to help Kevin meet his BOM on $4750 per unit. There wasn't much there to work with. In the end, it's definitely COSTING me.

Quoted from NoahFentz:

You are mistaken that we were the only company involved with products containing IP. You may want to do your research, especially before slandering anyone further.

Quoted from Mike_J:

OK, what do they say?

Quoted from Trekie:

Keep preaching drop the legal action. Not going to happen. And why would you care, unless affiliated with Kevin?

Quoted from HappyDayz:

That's just silly Miguel Jones. What exactly is there for me to worry about? While I do know Kevin I can honestly say I have not seen him in years now (or anyone else that was associated with Skit-B) and have no idea what he is up to these days. If you want to carry on with the legal action go for it. It doesn't affect me. Although, I personally think if you stand any chance of finding satisfaction it would be in proving bankruptcy fraud (IF he is hiding assets.) That wouldn't make me happy personally but you seem pretty vindictive.
You have already expressed no ill feelings for Clay having a Predator (or Predator parts) so I'm not sure why it would be different for anyone else.

Quoted from HappyDayz:

Weird. That was his name when he contacted me through FB and threatened me and my family.

My sole reason for getting my hands on the game was to look at the game code and how they solved several other issues (like boot-up sequence and powering on) for my own P-ROC project. That was it. No other grand conspiracy.

Quoted from Kneissl:

A publicly available game is the optimal outcome IMO. I suspect it's never coming back out of the shadows unless Clay or someone else builds one or a museum snags one.

Quoted from cfh:

Milton You are wrong. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black number one and Tim's number two that's it

Quoted from epthegeek:

Perhaps parts from early versions Hilton is talking about were re-used on updated versions as it evolved during development/show touring.

Quoted from Mr68:

(Edit) Never mind.

Quoted from cfh:

No that's not correct. There are only two Kevin made predators. The black predator has been documented all over with YouTube videos etc. And I've seen Tim's number two and I have pictures of it. So there's that. If there's more than this, let's see pictures. Let's see proof. Yeah that's what I thought, milton you have none. You can wish all you want but that doesn't make it happen or true

Quoted from MrBally:

If your offer to help still stands; can you clarify if you will volunteer your help or will there be a fee charged? Clay makes a wicked pepper steak, by the way so food is covered.

Quoted from RCA1:

(Edit: Is it a bad sign when I begin echoing Whysnow? )

Quoted from MrBally:

Not sure why you think Clay has a predator machine.

Quoted from SpookyCharlie:

I've stayed far away from all this disaster... but let me state clearly in a language everyone can understand.
Not only no, but... F***ING HELL NO!

Quoted from Russo121:

Has anyone talked recently to anyone from Keith Nathansons office recently? I can't seem to get in contact with them lately.
If you're reading this Keith, PM or email me as soon as you can. Thanks.

Quoted from TheLaw:

I thought this was happening today no?

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I understand the victims' frustration, but didn't you guys' mommies tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I don't want to insult anyone.

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

but somehow I knew better.

Quoted from KeithinMI:

мы не говорят по-английски здесь

Quoted from Mitch:

Has anyone heard from Keith. In the last 6 months I've emailed 6 times to him and his assistants, called twice and pm him yesterday. Never get a response back.

Quoted from Mitch:

Yes I'm a client

Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I dunno, man, if he bills 100 hours, there goes the entire pile of money from the house...

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

but I think there is very little money to be had

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

The best use of it is probably to make Kevin's life hell.

Quoted from Enaud:

I spoke with PayPal legal last year. The account has long since been drained. There has been nothing there for a long long time.

Quoted from rosh:

but yes, played like shit

Quoted from labnip:

it was fun to play, but those 2 targets directly in the lower-middle of the playfield were a real pain the butt.
they basically made using the middle of both of the flippers useless, unless you wanted to specifically hit those lower-middle targets.

Quoted from MrBally:

Found on the "Community Board" at the Family Fare Supermarket in Standish, Michigan

Quoted from KeithinMI:

Can someone please identify the Bally pin that this card is on, please.

Quoted from MMuller:

GAME OVER!

Quoted from MMuller:

GAME OVER!

Quoted from Enaud:

Don't be disillusioned that this will get you your money. It just means that he can't walk away from your claim due to his bankruptcy filing. I imagine you'll have to sue yet again to actually go after any money.

Quoted from dotEXE:

I see some people suggesting people should throw in hundreds to save $250. I'd recommend to think about it from an economics standpoint. If the marginal benefit of X is greater than the marginal cost, do X. Don't spend thousands of dollars in an attempt to regain $250. Don't even spend $251 to try and rescue $250. That'd be missing the forest for the trees.
If some people stand to recover thousands (I honestly don't know the extent of some people's investments here) by all means go forth.

Quoted from spfxted:

It's just a matter of if he has any money left to recover.....

Quoted from rotordave:

cause you sure ain't getting your $250 back from this douche