It's a tool that automates cabinetmaking and other machining. I don't know exactly which CNC machine in this case but here is a good explanation of how they are used in cabinetmaking. http://www.shopbottools.com/mApplications/cabinetmaking.htm

A simple explanation is instead of a person making the cuts it's a robot making them. You load a program into the CNC machine, clamp the work piece into place and press a button.

It's hindsight... but reading the filings it really highlights why businesses are supposed to operate a certain way.. even when selling stuff. All these protections in place to avoid 'clawback' claims where basically the seller will get left exposed.

The handling of these transactions between Kevin and these other guys are like textbook 'what not to do'. This is why having Keith active as the SC is so great... he's punishing these idiots for their mistakes and playing so loose and shady.

All those things about the validity of your buyers... contracts, credit checks, etc.. seems like such a PITA until you realize you are helping protecting yourself by ensuring you avoid clients that could go bankrupt.

in a sensitive topic such as predator, yes one would be persecuted.

Isn't that the guy that was walking with Kevin at the Auction a year ago?
d517d532bf28f71cd47de25b98b05273fd0646e9 (resized).jpg227235_105805079507244_2228175_n (resized).jpg

Sure looks to be.

What's Kathy Kulek maiden name?

As a proud Michiganian, it's going to take a little more than some camo, a hat, and a shitty goatee to sort us out

The only thing more common is being fat, shitty goatee, and red wings sweater

Kulek

lol

Took me a second, but I sure got a kick out of the comment.

So if they divorced they are still brother & sister? Jeez, I only thought that happened in Arkansas and Mississippi!
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You mean - Siblings with Benefits - yuck

It is the machine being discussed here:

I wonder if NoahFentz realized that the money he's working to get back to the pre-owners might just come from his assets?

Just for clarification, weren't you one of the pre-order folks convinced everything was legit? And he wasn't a pre-order but now has a prototype game at home and has been playing and enjoying it for the past year or more? Boy, he does sound dumb.

Going back, he posted it on his personal and what appears to be private Facebook page and nowhere else, right? You don't ever post pics on Facebook of a new pin you brought home? Nobody else does that?

Where exactly did he do this crying? On here? And who all exactly did he claim were bad guys? I missed reading some early stuff I guess.
Doesn't the above document suggest that he fully cooperated and apparently answered all questions Keith had? It says he testified, right? Perhaps Keith can clarify for everyone what he testified his role and relationship with Skit-B was or is?

Again, Just for clarification, you're not actually suggesting he did something illegal are you and the law is coming after him personally? If so, which law was broken exactly?

Hi Tim!

Bye Rob!

I have to agree with you. If not Tim, someone close to the situation. Someone doesn't just come in cold(July 2016) on this type of situation and starts defending certain positions.

That predator pin should be destroyed as it is an illegal copy, not auctioned off.

The law may not be "coming after him" exactly, but depending on what transactions did or did not occur and for what amounts, he may be required to return the (multiple?) Predator games he's now apparently got to Kevin's bankruptcy estate. And it's certainly possible that, smart or dumb though he may be, he will end up wishing he'd stayed well clear of this fiasco.

Are you really Tim?

I am NOT defending him or any position. Just stop it. Go after Kevin. I only noted the likely outcome in terms of money recovered because I personally have a hard time keeping my head buried in the sand on stuff like this. And you don't have to be close to Kevin or Tim or VirtuaPin to know this story. It's frequently discussed in Michigan and there are few secrets.

Tim is a damn fool and I hope he gets a judgment against him. He seriously thought he could buy one of the prototypes "under the table" yet he brags about it after the fact. Not an intelligent man. This is also clear when you read his inconsistent testimony linked above.

Can any Michigan pinsiders vouch for this guy as being someone other than Tim? If you are chatting with fellow pin heads in Michigan, surely one of them is on here. Might be an easy way to get people of your case if you have one of them hop on and say you are legit.

And we want someone other than this guy confirming he's legit.

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lol. 5 months of posting without a single boot from a thread or even a timeout or reprimand. Post here in response to ridiculous attacks, slander, and misinformation and the witch hunt is back on.

Go back to focusing on Kevin. I'll drain it.

Brickshot is a real piece of work. Nobody has this strong of an opinion without being connected to the story or having been present when it all unfolded. Someone reading back into things wouldn't be so adamant and combative. Give it up, dude.

Congrats?

Look, you got people here with lit torches and pitchforks that do not care who gets taken down along with Kevin, as long as the main one is Kevin. Everything is questionable, and rightfully so. There seems to be plenty of "dirty" transactions that go hand in hand with Kevin. That's what lawyers and courts are for. If there is dirty pool, then everyone should have to tread water in the deep end, including Tim.

amazed you were able to keep quite for 5 months with this dup account. Guessing you finally slithered out of the cracks once your name came up in the Pacer files. Enjoy the machines while you still can...

My only question is if you are dumb enough to try and make the games disappear before the court takes them back??? Hopefully you are not silly enough to risk your families well being by doing something dumb.

Let's not get carried away here. If the court demands their return, worst case he's going to be ordered to cough up the cash value if he cannot produce the machines. His "family's well being" shouldn't enter into the discussion.

Tim, you really need to give this a rest. It has been discussed ad nauseam.

Just catching up on the thread glad to see Kevin is still being pursued, hopefully this year it may come to a resolution that gives all Predator pre-orderers (I was in early myself before backing out) some form of satisfactory closure.

On the plus side thanks to Brick, I finally worked out how to verify my account and make a pinside donation, so there is at least one positive contribution he has made in this thread.

I hope they get them all, Kevin first, followed by all the benefactors of his scheme.

Wouldn't that be something if he "gives up" the two machines and then wins them back at an auction?

I wonder what the auction would end up bringing in for a Predator, if that ends up happening.

I wonder how much that price will increase the 2nd time it sells a week after the auction

I'm a bit confused on the VirtuaPin issue as well - are they, in essence, holding onto money for cabinets not delivered, and haven't returned that money? But they're still producing their own things? Could get interesting for them.

You didn't hear? NoahFentz lost his ass on that deal, he said so himself...

Still waiting for my empty cabinet.

I wonder how this will affect their business when their involvement shows up on the search engines.

Shouldn't be a big deal as Noah said the CNC machine cost less than 4% of the businesses' annual revenue. He can pay the back SkitB using petty cash.....

Hmm, yeah, I don't know about that claim either. I never see Virtua Pins in the wild or anywhere else for that matter. Almost confused them for Vertigo / Shark Tank deal.

It's all fun 'n Games until someone gets a Subpoena for a Deposition....

The machines will never make it to auction. They're unlicensed, remember? State (court) can't sell 'em. Fox *could* grant a license for just the two machines, making them legit and pretty valuable at auction (would help recoup money for preorder folks), but they have no reason to do so other than goodwill. Most likely the games will be surrendered to Fox and either be destroyed, or will wind up in some higher-ups' offices as curiosities.

He sure looked cool when he proclaimed it though!

I was thinking of that as well.. but I would assume Keith would disagree since he assigned a tangible value to them. He didn't try to reclaim them as IP violations, but as assets to be redistributed to creditors. And since they are one-offs and prototypes being liquidated instead of sold... I'm not sure if that changes things?

As one off prototypes would they be considered in a different light than a production machine made without license?

VPcabs(Vertigo creator) is in no way associated with Virtuapin.

Maybe they could just part the machine(s) out so there's no completed one, but they could still auction off pieces of it that way money can still be raised to cover some restitution and legal fees. Kind of how people get away with file sharing, because there's multiple people each sharing a piece of the file instead of the whole completed copyrighted work.

could he be found in contempt if ordered and refuses to comply?