(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#11601 2 years ago
Quoted from TheZohan:

Because Michigan

Indeed. Less money for housing equals more money for pins in the Murder Mitten, errr.. I mean Michigan.

#11602 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

EDIT: Ah I think I get it now, this means they can sell off all his assets to repay everyone?

Not a lawyer, but my read is that part of this is that court appointed Trustee is requesting that Keith be able to do further investigating relative to assets that have not been declared, on his behalf (and on behalf of the creditors). Assumption here being that he would be pretty motivated to uncover assets given the clients he is representing, and has already been involved in pursuit of Kevin's for his misdeeds.

It is certainly interesting, that during depositions, it appears, Kevin did admit to not only using predator funds to buy a house, but putting it in his wife's name specifically in hopes it would protect it if/when the shit hit the fan.

#11603 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

It is certainly interesting, that during depositions, it appears, Kevin did admit to not only using predator funds to buy a house, but putting it in his wife's name specifically in hopes it would protect it if/when the shit hit the fan.

Thanks. Yeah this was the weird part I thought too...see he is an honest guy!

#11604 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

OK so for us non legal types...what does this mean? That he can't file for bankruptcy?
EDIT: Ah I think I get it now, this means they can sell off all his assets to repay everyone?

This is a motion to have the lawyer representing the Predator buyers (Keith) be hired/employeed by the Trustee (The Court appointed people responsible for handling the bankruptcy request) to work on behalf of the Trustee to bring as much clarity as possible to the debtor's (Kevin's) actual financial situation.

Basically it lays out the case that based on the prior work Keith has been doing on behalf of the predator buyers, there is there is probably more shady stuff that Kevin has NOT disclosed to the bankruptcy court and Keith is worthy of hiring to work to ensure the creditors get as much as possible from Kevin.

This basically just gets Keith working on the team that to expose Kevin's dealings and assets... which is good for the predator lawsuit clients because of the prior work and interest in Kevin's dealings... vs having Kevin just slide through bankruptcy court easily.

#11605 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

It is certainly interesting, that during depositions, it appears, Kevin did admit to not only using predator funds to buy a house, but putting it in his wife's name specifically in hopes it would protect it if/when the shit hit the fan.

That's the claim of course. Would sure like to see those transcripts though to see how that is actually asked/answered though. What lawyer would allow their client to actually say that??

#11606 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

What lawyer would allow their client to actually say that??

The kind Kevin could afford

#11607 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

What lawyer would allow their client to actually say that??

The kind of lawyer that only wants the truth.

#11608 2 years ago

Reading this again here is what I interpret (with no legal background or even nights in a Motel 7)

I guess he can file bankruptcy but the court assigned "Randall Frank" to be trustee of the estate to liquidate and remaining assets. Keith sued on behalf of the buyers. He also convinced the court that his intimate knowledge of the whole situation would make him a valuable resource and got himself appointed by the court to be "Special Litigation Counsel" to the estate. This means he would be able to identify property bought with deposit money and help with the asset liquidation to cash for return to those owed money.

During a hearing he got Kevin to admit he didn't have a license, he continued to take money knowing he did not have a license and he bought the house using Predator money. On top of that he admitted he signed it over to his wife to try and protect it from this type of process.

It leaves him open to more lawsuits. I have no idea what this 2004 examination means. It also mentions some statues that we can only hope means he violated some laws that may lead to criminal.

Overall I think this was a good day.

18
#11609 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

OK so for us non legal types...what does this mean? That he can't file for bankruptcy?

Kevin Kulek has already filed for bankruptcy, so he is the debtor in the bankruptcy case. There is a Trustee appointed in the bankruptcy case (Randall Frank), and he is working on behalf of the creditors of the estate (e.g., unpaid vendors, customers who paid deposits but never received pinball machines). The bankruptcy filing was a voluntary Chapter 7 petition, which (for honest debtors) is typically a straight liquidation that wipes out all debts and provides the debtor with a "fresh start" post-bankrutpcy. Fortunately for many people here in this thread, not all debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. One specific example of a non-dischargeable debt is one obtained by false pretenses, false representations, or fraud.

In the bankruptcy court filing posted above, the Trustee petitioned the judge to name Keith Nathanson (KeithinMI here on Pinside) as Special Litigation Counsel to pursue causes of action that might provide a recovery to the creditors of the estate. The filing mentions a $30,000 transfer allegedly used by Kevin to pay for real estate (his residence), where the property was allegedly titled in his wife's name to avoid creditor claims.

The Trustee's filing occurred two weeks ago, and Keith's comments yesterday imply that the judge was either about to rule, or has already ruled, in the Trustee's favor, naming Keith as Special Litigation Counsel working for the Trustee on behalf of the estate. This could greatly bolster the Trustee's ability to recover proceeds for creditors, and that could be bad news for Kevin's hope for a debt-free, "fresh start" post-bankruptcy (i.e., "Winter is here, John Snow.").

PS - I'm not a lawyer, but I have logged thousands of billable hours in bankruptcy cases over the last two decades working as a financial advisor for financially distressed businesses. And I *never* stay in a Holday Inn Express!

#11610 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I have no idea what this 2004 examination means.

See the link below for a good summary...

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-2004-examination-bankruptcy.html

Notable excerpt:

"Most often, a trustee will request the 2004 Exam to investigate:

o The location of your assets
o Your financial transactions
o The accuracy of your bankruptcy schedules and other papers, and
o Whether you committed fraud."

#11611 2 years ago

Oh man, now this is really starting to get good! *gets another batch of popcorn*

15
#11612 2 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Has anyone heard from Keith. In the last 6 months I've emailed 6 times to him and his assistants, called twice and pm him yesterday. Never get a response back.

I'm here and responding to everyone. Please call me at my office at your convenience. 248-894-3911 x 111.

12
#11613 2 years ago

I will sign copies of item 13 or 14 so you can have your own collectible item from the case.

Only $10 for an autographed copy!

(by the way if you don't get that this is just humor, then I am telling you now, it is)

18
#11614 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

That's the claim of course. Would sure like to see those transcripts though to see how that is actually asked/answered though. What lawyer would allow their client to actually say that??

you should get a copy of the initial §341 meeting of creditors, at which I conducted 25 minutes or so of questioning of Kevin. You would be *astounded* at his answers.

Note that I have his deposition transcript from the state cases, and will just say that as a trial lawyer and litigator for just about 28 years, my job is to locate and flesh out inconsistencies.

I would also suggest, if you'd like a good read, that you obtain a copy of his bankruptcy petition and look at his answers in Schedule I (income), Schedule J (expenses), his Schedule B (list of assets), and Statement of Financial Affairs (SOFA).

#11615 2 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Kevin Kulek has already filed for bankruptcy, so he is the debtor in the bankruptcy case. There is a Trustee appointed in the bankruptcy case (Randall Frank), and he is working on behalf of the creditors of the estate (e.g., unpaid vendors, customers who paid deposits but never received pinball machines). The bankruptcy filing was a voluntary Chapter 7 petition, which (for honest debtors) is typically a straight liquidation that wipes out all debts and provides the debtor with a "fresh start" post-bankrutpcy. Fortunately for many people here in this thread, not all debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. One specific example of a non-dischargeable debt is one obtained by false pretenses, false representations, or fraud.
In the bankruptcy court filing posted above, the Trustee petitioned the judge to name Keith Nathanson (KeithinMI here on Pinside) as Special Litigation Counsel to pursue causes of action that might provide a recovery to the creditors of the estate. The filing mentions a $30,000 transfer allegedly used by Kevin to pay for real estate (his residence), where the property was allegedly titled in his wife's name to avoid creditor claims.
The Trustee's filing occurred two weeks ago, and Keith's comments yesterday imply that the judge was either about to rule, or has already ruled, in the Trustee's favor, naming Keith as Special Litigation Counsel working for the Trustee on behalf of the estate. This could greatly bolster the Trustee's ability to recover proceeds for creditors, and that could be bad news for Kevin's hope for a debt-free, "fresh start" post-bankruptcy (i.e., "Winter is here, John Snow.").
PS - I'm not a lawyer, but I have logged thousands of billable hours in bankruptcy cases over the last two decades working as a financial advisor for financially distressed businesses. And I *never* stay in a Holday Inn Express!

1. Check docket item number 14 - Order from Court authorizing me.
2. Please review 11 USC §523 for list of items which can be excepted from discharge.
3. Please review 11 USC §727 regarding discharge of a debtor.

22
#11616 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

1. Check docket item number 14 - Order from Court authorizing me.
2. Please review 11 USC §523 for list of items which can be excepted from discharge.
3. Please review 11 USC §727 regarding discharge of a debtor.

your drive for transparency and support of the cause are most admirable sir.

#11617 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

I'm here and responding to everyone. Please call me at my office at your convenience. 248-894-3911 x 111.

Talked to Keith 5 minutes ago. Everthing is good just got our lines crossed. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

#11618 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

1. Check docket item number 14 - Order from Court authorizing me.
2. Please review 11 USC §523 for list of items which can be excepted from discharge.
3. Please review 11 USC §727 regarding discharge of a debtor.

How does somebody find this?

#11619 2 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Kevin Kulek has already filed for bankruptcy, so he is the debtor in the bankruptcy case. There is a Trustee appointed in the bankruptcy case (Randall Frank), and he is working on behalf of the creditors of the estate (e.g., unpaid vendors, customers who paid deposits but never received pinball machines). The bankruptcy filing was a voluntary Chapter 7 petition, which (for honest debtors) is typically a straight liquidation that wipes out all debts and provides the debtor with a "fresh start" post-bankrutpcy. Fortunately for many people here in this thread, not all debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. One specific example of a non-dischargeable debt is one obtained by false pretenses, false representations, or fraud.
In the bankruptcy court filing posted above, the Trustee petitioned the judge to name Keith Nathanson (KeithinMI here on Pinside) as Special Litigation Counsel to pursue causes of action that might provide a recovery to the creditors of the estate. The filing mentions a $30,000 transfer allegedly used by Kevin to pay for real estate (his residence), where the property was allegedly titled in his wife's name to avoid creditor claims.
The Trustee's filing occurred two weeks ago, and Keith's comments yesterday imply that the judge was either about to rule, or has already ruled, in the Trustee's favor, naming Keith as Special Litigation Counsel working for the Trustee on behalf of the estate. This could greatly bolster the Trustee's ability to recover proceeds for creditors, and that could be bad news for Kevin's hope for a debt-free, "fresh start" post-bankruptcy (i.e., "Winter is here, John Snow.").
PS - I'm not a lawyer, but I have logged thousands of billable hours in bankruptcy cases over the last two decades working as a financial advisor for financially distressed businesses. And I *never* stay in a Holday Inn Express!

Thanks for the break down, but cant you remove the allegedly, since apparently Kevin admitted it?

So glad this appears to be moving forward for you guys who got screwed. I dont know what is left to recover, but he does not deserve to get away with this. ESPECIALLY given the fact above...

13
#11620 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

I will sign copies of item 13 or 14 so you can have your own collectible item from the case.
Only $10 for an autographed copy!
(by the way if you don't get that this is just humor, then I am telling you now, it is)

I'll PayPal you $10 for signed copies of both docs posted to NZ .. They can hang on the wall next to my JPOP artwork.

PM me your PayPal address and I'll send you the Bucks! Seriously!

rd

14
#11621 2 years ago

Man....Now I'm getting nervous that I won't receive my Gremlins pinball from Vonnie D.

#11622 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm just amazed that you can buy a house for $30k.

Location, location, location.

#11623 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Location, location, location.

I know...but still! That's cheaper than some remodeling jobs...

#11624 2 years ago

I'm glad to see things are finally moving. Here's a similar story of a morning show in Chicago about fighting a scammer and it took 5-6 years to fight in court.
http://picosong.com/DQQj/

#11625 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I know...but still! That's cheaper than some remodeling jobs...

Not my ol lady's.

#11626 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

How does somebody find this?

The site to access Federal Court records (including bankruptcy court) is called PACER. Public Access to Court Electronic Records.

Link: https://www.pacer.gov/login.html

You have to have an account linked to a credit card/debit card as they charge $0.10 per page to retrieve records. I am not sure if looking a docket for a case is free.

I have both PACER access, as well as CM/ECF access (for filing).

Case is 16-21030-dop (Judge David Opperman)

#11627 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

I'll PayPal you $10 for signed copies of both docs posted to NZ .. They can hang on the wall next to my JPOP artwork.
PM me your PayPal address and I'll send you the Bucks! Seriously!
rd

My first fan-boy! Hooray! I see big bucks in my future. At least $20 worth. Beer is on me.

10
#11628 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

... I have no idea what this 2004 examination means. ...

The following are a few examples of criminal violations of federal law:

1. Bankruptcy Fraud
2. Income Tax Evasion
3. Lying to a federal agent during an investigation
4. Obstructing a federal investigation
5. Obstruction of justice
6. RICO (racketeering)
7. Conspiracy
8. Wire/Mail Fraud

#11629 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

The following are a few examples of criminal violations of federal law:
1. Bankruptcy Fraud
2. Income Tax Evasion
3. Lying to a federal agent during an investigation
4. Obstructing a federal investigation
5. Obstruction of justice
6. RICO (racketeering)
7. Conspiracy
8. Wire/Mail Fraud

How many, do you "speculate" he has hit. Or should I word it. How many of these is he innocent of!

#11630 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

How many of these is he innocent of!

15
#11631 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

My first fan-boy! Hooray! I see big bucks in my future. At least $20 worth. Beer is on me.

Keith has kindly contacted me and his personally signed court documents are on their way to New Zealand. \m/

rd

#11632 2 years ago

Has anyone obtained this yet?

Quoted from KeithinMI:

I would also suggest, if you'd like a good read, that you obtain a copy of his bankruptcy petition and look at his answers in Schedule I (income), Schedule J (expenses), his Schedule B (list of assets), and Statement of Financial Affairs (SOFA)

#11633 2 years ago

Does the hourly rate listed to perform work for the trustee come off of the recovered funds or is it taxpayer funded?

#11634 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Does the hourly rate listed to perform work for the trustee come off of the recovered funds or is it taxpayer funded?

Keith's pay comes out of the bankruptcy estate (i.e. the pot of money and other assets that is ultimately to be divided up among Kevin's creditors). It's an "administrative expense" (i.e. a cost of administering the bankruptcy) and, like the trustee's pay, comes off the top before any payments are made to the creditors. Obviously the hope is that through his work Keith will bring far more money into the bankruptcy estate than he is paid out in fees!

#11635 2 years ago

I dunno, man, if he bills 100 hours, there goes the entire pile of money from the house...

#11636 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I dunno, man, if he bills 100 hours, there goes the entire pile of money from the house...

we can only hope!

Keep in mind goal #1 is make sure that someone else does not get away with free money!

Goal #2 is to recover funds. They are not mutually exclusive and actually tie together nicely.

#11637 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I dunno, man, if he bills 100 hours, there goes the entire pile of money from the house...

As things stand, Kevin intends to pay back zero...if anything is recovered by the "customers" over zero we are better off. Also:

Quoted from Whysnow:

Keep in mind goal #1 is make sure that someone else does not get away with free money!

I totally agree with this. Per what's in that court filing the house Kevin is living in was paid for by pre-order money...that is offensive.

12
#11638 2 years ago

Yeah, I don't think anyone should hate on Keith for getting paid for doing this. Obviously I'm not one of the people out money, so I can't speak for them, but I think there is very little money to be had anyway when you spread it among all the people owed money. The best use of it is probably to make Kevin's life hell.

#11639 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

but I think there is very little money to be had

discovery lends me to believe otherwise.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

The best use of it is probably to make Kevin's life hell.

agreed 100%

-43
#11640 2 years ago

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.

I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.

If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

#11641 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

creating more little unethical lying kevins to rip off more hard working honest people in the future is not justification for stopping getting money returned for a lied-about product that was not produced.

22
#11642 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

Lies and fraud--now proven facts. For goodness sake, he used business funds for personal expenses. That's embezzlement. Are you saying this behavior is acceptable? If someone else does the same thing, would you be ok with it?

This isn't a matter of someone bilking someone else out of a measly ten bucks. We're talking tens of thousands here.

#11643 2 years ago

He brought it on himself is an understatement...he still hasn't so much as apologized. He barely qualifies as a person.

24
#11644 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

The very fact that you are trying to make the victims the bad guys here. How uncivilized! The ONLY bad guy is Kevin (And possibly his wife, who should lose her photography equipment too), who lied, and defrauded many people. Why didnt HE think about HIS kids. Not the victims problem.

14
#11645 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality. I know, I know, he brought it on himself. But he ain't exactly Bernie Madoff.
I hope that losing some discretionary income money on non-delivered toys is the worst thing that ever happens to all you victims. I know, I know, a few people prepaid multiple entire games... but they hoped to make a killing, and that was a huge risk. One shouldn't risk more than one can afford to lose, and pinball is not an investment vehicle.
If this comment brings on any thumbs downs, I'd like to hear what exactly I said that you "don't agree" with! It all seems unassailable to me.

If the piece of garbage that stole my identity and filed a false tax return in my name seeking an $8000 refund (yes, actually happened) this year has kids...does that make it ok?

Should they be permitted to trade on my good name?

After all, it was caught before any damage was done, so it's ok, right?

Thieves are pieces of dogcrap.

Whether they steal identity or currency, whether the victim is wealthy or poor, it doesn't matter.

Don't Take Shite That Isn't Yours!

If you do, don't cry and bitch when you have to pay the piper.

11
#11646 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

The very fact that you are trying to make the victims the bad guys here. How uncivilized! The ONLY bad guys is Kevin (And possibly his wife, who should lose her photography equipment too), who lied, and defrauded many people. Why didnt HE think about HIS kids. Not the victims problem.

Yep, blaming the victim or cutting him a break because he might have adorable puppy dogs or children to take care of doesn't absolve him of what he did wrong. There are plenty of criminals out there who have family too, but that didn't stop them from hurting others.

This wasn't just some little boo boo that can be shrugged off--this was a pretty substantial endeavor and failure that cost a lot of people a considerable amount of money who now have nothing to show for it.

19
#11647 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids, I'd be all for this "making his life hell" mentality.

It's not "making his life hell" so much as it is making sure he doesn't enjoy the fruits of his misappropriation of our money. He took our money, he kept our money, he promised us refunds that never came, he bought himself a house with our money and admitted it (if the filings are accurate).

He should not benefit from our money, whether he has kids or not and whether it was our discretionary money or not, he simply should not keep it.

#11648 2 years ago

Every time his kids ask "daddy, why don't we have nice things like the other kids" his wife should tell them "we'll kids, your daddy is a lying piece of crap".

#11649 2 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

If he didn't have kids,...............

I have Kids and Bad health, Kindly Paypal $5000 for my fully licensed Judicial System Pinball..........

#11650 2 years ago

Here's another recent crowdfunding case where the owners failed at producing something they promised, took the money for personal use, filed for bankruptcy, and left a trail of wreckage behind.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/08/13/0118242/wild-abuse-allegations-taint-indiegogo-helmet-maker-skully

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