(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 54 days ago by Mr68
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#9901 3 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

The prototypes aren't stolen goods so no.

Care to explain that one?

#9902 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Care to explain that one?

It's already been explained over and over again in the last few pages.

#9903 3 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

Better for the guys taking legal action as it adds money to Kevin's account which in the end would be the source for reimbursement.

Yeah because I am sure that money went straight into his savings account for a rainy day, rather than cash directly to his back pocket and spent on strippers and alcohol.

#9904 3 years ago

...And don't forget the arcade machines!

#9905 3 years ago

Kevin strikes me as more of a meth afficanado

#9906 3 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Kevin strikes me as more of a meth afficanado

image.jpg

#9907 3 years ago

Keith will get a judgement in the plaintiffs favor, money owed, none will be given out, and Kulek will continue doing what he's been doing. I know. I've dealt with and LIVED with people similar.

My niece is not a good judge of character. She was trying to marry a dude who was shady at best. My entire family wanted me to co-sign on a loan for the wedding. $15,000. He spent $5,000 on the wedding and tried to start a drug empire with the rest. ( I found out later!). He wasn't successful, I was stuck holding the bill and they divorced 6 months later.

He's still working under the table 7 years later and living great. Sooo... I didn't see the Pred scam coming mostly cuz of others here paying into it, so in herd mentality I did too.

Moral: Kulek will never, ever pay out and will not go to jail, lose any sleep over this and feels no remorse. I wish Keith success only to try to give some closure to the plaintiffs.

#9908 3 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Moral: Kulek will never, ever pay out and will not go to jail, lose any sleep over this and feels no remorse. I wish Keith success only to try to give some closure to the plaintiffs.

and of course, zero assets tied to, or under his name.

so yes, no jail, nothing to pay out and will ride off into the fucking sunset.... like nothing happened.

the system stinks.

12
#9909 3 years ago

just to make it clear, if you are someone that paid into this crapfest then do not let comments like this ^^^ keep you from getting involved in cases against Kulek/SkitB/ et al.

Many people have not looked into the details and have no idea what they are talking about or where the money resides (and legally how it can be gone after).

Still time to call KiethinMI and get a free consult. most of the legwork has already been done so your personal barrier to entrance is very small.

#9910 3 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

Just to bring it back to top of mind:
I am a practicing lawyer in Michigan and would be happy to give a free phone consult with any Predator "investor" about their rights/remedies, and of course happy to represent them to assist in recovery of their monies.
I am currently representing Clients in the matter and have had contact with Mr. Kulek's lawyer, and am quite aware of what is going on.
http://www.nathanson-law.com
248-436-4833 x 111
Keith Nathanson

11
#9911 3 years ago

Kevin will pay, of that I have no doubt. Been through this many times. It may take a while...but pay he will. Now the FBI thing is a much bigger deal. They have put enough time into this now that i feel a point of no return had been reached. They are moving forward now. Time will tell.

The protos are stolen goods. It's been explained several times - some guys do not have the mental acumen to see that and that is ok with me. The protos were sold to pinsiders , then sold again to third parties. It was not Kevin's to sell anymore - it belongs to a guy with a receipt for that specific machine. When he sold it a second time it was not his property according to him and the receipts at the time. Rest assured - legal minds are handling this now. The authorities will be the final arbiter - not idiot haters on Pinside

The real question is this now - where are the other protos ? If he sold them , and we have a good indicator he did, the charges get much more serious. Each one sold , if valued at $5,000 or more , will increase the charges against him. I suspect we find the third proto in someone's collection as well other stolen goods. The rumor is the thieves did not only get machines - they got other stuff as well. All of that stuff Kevin lied to the FBI about. Sold internationally to try and hide the fact. And now look what has happened - FBI found out about tim fife and BANG case reopened (if they ever really closed it, I now suspect they just told us that in order to trip up Kevin the thief and wife beater).

Note - just because (you) got ripped off, duped, whatever and did not recover anything - don't assume that's how anyone else rolls. I recover . I have started legal and other action against no less than 4 pinsiders. Two pending two settled in my favor - as usual. I never roll over for thieves. Outside of pinball it's much more prolific (before you ask , I was new and got scammed by 4 different guys on Pinside , including jpop and Kevin Kulek - so far. )

#9912 3 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Kevin will pay, of that I have no doubt. Been through this many times. It may take a while...but pay he will. Now the FBI thing is a much bigger deal. They have put enough time into this now that i feel a point of no return had been reached. They are moving forward now. Time will tell.
The protos are stolen goods. It's been explained several times - some guys do not have the mental acumen to see that and that is ok with me. The protos were sold to pinsiders , then sold again to third parties. It was not Kevin's to sell anymore - it belongs to a guy with a receipt for that specific machine. When he sold it a second time it was not his property according to him and the receipts at the time.

If (when?) this turns out to be the case then I take back all my defense of these guys and my apologies to anyone I may have frustrated

-7
#9913 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

just to make it clear, if you are someone that paid into this crapfest then do not let comments like this ^^^ keep you from getting involved in cases against Kulek/SkitB/ et al.
Many people have not looked into the details and have no idea what they are talking about or where the money resides (and legally how it can be gone after).
Still time to call KiethinMI and get a free consult. most of the legwork has already been done so your personal barrier to entrance is very small.

Hypocrite

#9914 3 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

FBI found out about tim fife and BANG case reopened

Martin Scorsese - Who's that knocking at my door (1967)

#9915 3 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Note - just because (you) got ripped off, duped, whatever and did not recover anything - don't assume that's how anyone else rolls. I recover . I have started legal and other action against no less than 4 pinsiders.

How the hell do you manage to find all the bad apples?

#9916 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

How the hell do you manage to find all the bad apples?

He started learning to swim by diving off a tower into a murky lake. Turns out there was some dangerous garbage under the water.

#9917 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

He started learning to swim by diving off a tower into a murky lake. Turns out there was some dangerous garbage under the water.

Quoted for accUracy, posterity, and as a reminder

#9919 3 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

White van speaker scam is old as Dirt. Most don't have bricks. Most work but the absolute cheapest junk they can get. Speakers receivers video projectors watches anything really. They makeup up fake magazines with fake reviews fake fair retail values fake invoices for amounts they paid.
I almost fell for it, I was 16-18years old.
Almost is the key word.
» YouTube video

HA! That made my day. Didn't realize there was a name for this scam.

When was 16-18 this happened to me two or three times...guys driving around in a van in a parking lot in Suburban Maryland wanted to know if I wanted "free high quality speakers!!!'

Uhhh no thanks guys! But the greedy part of me was always thinking "man am I missing out?" at least the first time. It started to get comical as I kept seeing these dudes roaming around parking lots trying to give me free speakers.

20 years late in NYC I've seen a variation on this scam. Guy driving an SUV asks me for directions to the Lincoln tunnel. Which is ridiculous as it's easy to find. But the first time, "hey sure, turn left and then right". Then the guys says, "hey do you want a nice suit?" He tells some story about how he is heading back to Europe, and can't take these new high quality garments due to taxes or some bullshit, and I can have them cheap. Man you just KNOW it's a scam, and the last thing I thought about this morning is buying a suit from a guy on the street...but a part of you is just ensnared by the whole thing.

Feeling myself slipping into the tightening grip of this slimeball I just said.."uh no..I don't have any money...gotta go!" and forced myself to walk in the other direction.

A week later same thing happened with another dude. By the third time, I gave the guy directions and added "and I don't want a suit." He drove away sheepishly.

Scams are pretty fascinating from a psychological standpoint. Even when you really should know better the good ones have a way of hooking you in. I just generally try to step away from the situation and use my head not my heart. If the answer to the question "Do you need a suit, and under normal circumstances would you buy one from some weirdo on 10th avenue" is "No," walk away.

#9920 3 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

White van speaker scam is old as Dirt. Most don't have bricks. Most work but the absolute cheapest junk they can get. Speakers receivers video projectors watches anything really. They makeup up fake magazines with fake reviews fake fair retail values fake invoices for amounts they paid.
I almost fell for it, I was 16-18years old.
Almost is the key word.
» YouTube video

LOL this brings back memories. My friend got ripped right after high school with that speaker scam. And my friends mom got beat with the "brick in the box" scam she was so pissed she kept the brick on the fireplace mantel for months, people would always ask why do u have a brick up there and she would tell them the story of getting ripped off with the brick in the box scam. Another scam going around similar, a entire apartment building was being renovated and some scammers got a hold of all the oven doors, they wrapped them up nice and and put them in flat panel tv boxes. When they pull them part way out of box it looks like a new flat panel tv in shrink wrap, there was a warning on tv news back then..

#9921 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Scams are pretty fascinating from a psychological standpoint.

I like when they approach you for money. I beat them to the punch and tell them I only have enough for a sandwich and pop and if they could give me a few bucks I can super size it.

LTG : )™

#9922 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

just to make it clear, if you are someone that paid into this crapfest then do not let comments like this ^^^ keep you from getting involved in cases against Kulek/SkitB/ et al.
Many people have not looked into the details and have no idea what they are talking about or where the money resides (and legally how it can be gone after).
Still time to call KiethinMI and get a free consult. most of the legwork has already been done so your personal barrier to entrance is very small.

I want you to be absolutely right Whysnow.

I am not investing into this case for my own personal reasons. Emotion got me into this mess, not logic, so for my personal anger management I needed to move on, I created my own closure by letting the money go and not trying to recover it. I've tried the system and been even angrier after time lapsed and nothing happened. I've got enough to aggravate me already in my life.

It is not my intention to sidetrack or condone apathy, it's just my way of dealing with this bad decision. This was a special case to me BECAUSE of my excitement in it.

So please for anyone not involved with Keith yet, give him a call. I wonder if the reasons are similar why others haven't called either?

#9923 3 years ago

Yes social engineering is amazing!

And depending on the kind of heart you have or how sorry you feel for people. Etc. You can easily fall victim.

This is their living their careers and they get real good at it. From the tarot card fortune tellers to the unholy holy guys. Not so easy to stop yourself from getting wacked. From white vans to a professional looking web site.
And they happen all the time in any surroundings from your local watering hole to the guy swinging his little kid on a swing at the playground. You always need to be on guard.

I purchased this book a while back as entertainment reading. The back cover reads " a legendary hacker reveals how to guard against the greatest security risk of all human nature"

The book title: the art of deception by Kevin D Mitnick.

Mitnick being a somewhat famous hacker that now does training for companies I believe. That is still what he knows best. I know purchase of book helps him get rich so a double edge sword for sure.

I think everyone does it to a certain level.

But when it involves many people and large sums of money. I don't think the justice system has any real good way to undo the damage. I met a guy that lost out to an investment scam. Well he won his case but is still out his whole retirement nestegg. He has never seen a penny. It is truly unreal.

As a kid I loved magic tricks but when you start to read and learn the secrets it is the art of fooling to entertain. The pledge, the turn, the flurrish the reveal. The art of deception.
But for entertainment it is accepted.
I guess because they announce themselves as such and just trying to figure out how they did it is fun. ??? Penn and Teller know the craft and tell you just enough to stay three steps ahead of you.

#9924 3 years ago

I cant believe this guy was able to get so many to trust him with their hard earned cash.
I wonder if the same folks would of hired him to cut the grass or even given him the time of day had he knocked on the door??

I feel bad for everyone in this situation and I know if he keeps popping up at pinball events he is going to get his ass handed to him.
He thinks hes a bad ass and is obviously a self centered looser who has no regards for others.. Including his own family..So sad.

kevin.jpg

#9925 3 years ago
Quoted from jasonp:

I cant believe this guy was able to get so many to trust him with their hard earned cash.
I wonder if the same folks would of hired him to cut the grass or even given him the time of day had he knocked on the door??
I feel bad for everyone in this situation and I know if he keeps popping up at pinball events he is going to get his ass handed to him.
He thinks hes a bad ass and is obviously a self centered looser who has no regards for others.. Including his own family..So sad.
kevin.jpg

It wasn't him I trusted. It was the others who had already bought in and endorsed him. I could've cared less about Kulek.

I just wanted the pin. I waited for over 8 months before I joined in, watching the thread and the others here excited. Heck, even a moderator ( or more than one?) fell prey.

So to keep my pinball excitement alive I had to admit my shortcomings.

#9926 3 years ago

He kinda looks like the Predator but uglier.

#9927 3 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

It was the others who had already bought in and endorsed him.

Hopefully my fully paid for Virtua Pin cabinet shows up this week... but apparently he had a lot to lose in this, outside of being the only one who came out ahead after the shit hit the fan... the only thing real to him was the money he *allegedly* got in advance.

#9928 3 years ago
Quoted from mhkohne:

The scam part comes when they start trying to convince people that it's high end gear and charge high end prices. I never ran into a scam one - the one time I saw one, the convo went like this:

Agreed. They tried showing me some brochures where the speakers were $1200. I didn't buy into that and bought them with the mindset that I was just buying empty cabinets. There's no doubt their tactics are very misleading, so you need to know (or assume) what you're dealing with going in.

-1
#9929 3 years ago

Some serious wishful thinking going on here...

Even if the hammer came down from a fib lead case... That doesn't get you a collection.

I love the stolen goods story too... Imagine if every fraud case turned into larceny because someone got an order receipt. That's funny. Now unless there is some angle that Kevin was just storing their game id love to hear their argument.

Plus, larceny would be determined by the police, not your lawyer. So where are the arrests for Kevin stealing games from his own possession?

#9930 3 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Believe it or not, I got some nice speakers off of the 'guys in the white van' in a parking lot in the late 90's. I talked them down so cheap that I figured it was worth it for the towers I could see in the box, even if the speakers ended up being MIA. Turned out they were just an unknown brand, but sounded/looked great and I still use them for my entertainment center today. You just never know.

Was the brand DaVinci?

#9931 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Some serious wishful thinking going on here...

Everyone, Flynniguess is talking, calm down... He know's exactly what is going on, so just literally get on board with the wet blanket........

I get you're a big deal IRL, but shit man, you know what's up?

#9932 3 years ago

I feel bad for marco's specialties and dirty donny. it's like there's only two photos of kevin and both have him wearing that marco's dirty donny t-shirt.

#9933 3 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Was the brand DaVinci?

Even better... OMNI. This would have been around '97.

#9934 3 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Everyone, Flynniguess is talking, calm down... He know's exactly what is going on, so just literally get on board with the wet blanket........

Truth is better than fan fiction... even if the truth hurts.

Or... you can keep dreaming up your own realities and pump each other up about how "its different this time" or how this guy is somehow guilty of new contradictions of the law. Who has reported these goods they never had possession of as 'stolen'? That's why I said, unless these guys are making some argument that the game was already theirs, had taken possession and it was just being stored at Kevin's... I'd love to hear their angle on this.

When someone cons you and you say 'they stole my money' - it's slang - not an actual instance of theft/larceny. It's fraud - not theft. A very important difference in both how something is pursued and how its resolved.

OJ Simpson was charged to pay over 33.5 million in fines and restitution. 18 years later, the families say they have recovered less than one percent of that judgement.

Who is going to keep paying the lawyers and the collection agents over the coming years it would take to actually follow through with a collection? You're going to go cash negative in the first month. A $500 retainer isn't going to pay for years of liens, follow-ups, and collections. Anyone tackle that question with Keith yet?

'Blood from a stone' really comes into play here as well. If the guy ends up living on someone's couch or back in his mom's basement... what are you going to collect??

The best hope is Kevin actually gets convicted of a felony that results in some actual jail time. Short of that, everything else is just spending money for a moral victory. Yes, this part is all opinion :p

#9935 3 years ago

you dont even have a clue of what the contract is with Keith yet you keep spouting on about things???

FTR, you are wrong on a few of your assumptions.

#9936 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

you dont even have a clue of what the contract is with Keith yet you keep spouting on about things???
FTR, you are wrong on a few of your assumptions.

I asked a question. I would ensure you know the full scope of the agreement and not just assume. What happens after judgement, who will be running the collection, who pays the expenses, who gets paid first (clients or him), to what limits, etc.

When things are too good to be true.. you should ensure you know all the details to be sure it is what you think it is. $500 for years worth of lawyer time? Ok, even take in the 20+ people.. 10k for years worth of lawyering?? Call me unconvinced. How much are people willing to spend to keep it going?

That's why I said the criminal side is probably the only side with any kind of satisfactory outcome... How much time and money are you going to spend to try to recover $4500?

#9937 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

What happens after judgement, who will be running the collection, who pays the expenses, who gets paid first (clients or him), to what limits, etc.

if he is representing you or you would like him to, then I suggest to get ahold of him and negotiate this all...

I can say I am very happy with the arrangement I have with him.

Quoted from flynnibus:

How much time and money are you going to spend to try to recover $4500?

time = very little, I hired a lawyer
money = yet to be determined but both criminal and civil aspects are being worked on and either would bring satisfaction. I am happy to spend a reasonable amount on either/both.

#9938 3 years ago

Do we know exactly how many prototypes were made? I know the latest development is potentially (probably certainly) more than one illegal sale has occurred.

#9939 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Do we know exactly how many prototypes were made? I know the latest development is potentially (probably certainly) more than one illegal sale has occurred.

my understanding is 3 confirmed prototypes but likely only 2 alive (first pillaged for parts to make the others).
We also know there were confirmed parts for 10 production games/ the first batch.

#9940 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

if he is representing you or you would like him to, then I suggest to get ahold of him and negotiate this all...
I can say I am very happy with the arrangement I have with him.

All I can say is... reserve this space for the discussion two years from now

I wish you all the best - but sometimes I think the eagerness leads to running in the dark.

11
#9941 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

All I can say is... reserve this space for the discussion two years from now
I wish you all the best - but sometimes I think the eagerness leads to running in the dark.

for me, my action feels better than inaction did.

In other words, the costs (emotional, time, money) are all worth it for me personally.

#9942 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

the criminal side is probably the only side with any kind of satisfactory outcome

You do know that many owners lobbied hard (and unsuccessfully) to convince law enforcement to file charges against Kevin, right? Given the lackluster response from the detectives, do you really think investing time and energy pleading for a criminal action is more likely to pan out than a civil claim?

#9943 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Given the lackluster response from the detectives, do you really think investing time and energy pleading for a criminal action is more likely to pan out than a civil claim?

It's possible. OJ Simpson got away in criminal court, but then got blasted in civil court.

lol comparing Kevin to OJ

#9944 3 years ago
Quoted from asay:

It's possible. OJ Simpson got away in criminal court, but then got blasted in civil court.
lol comparing Kevin to OJ

Something tells me the glove would fit Kevin just fine.

#9945 3 years ago

How many pins will fit in a white Ford Bronco?

#9946 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

How many pins will fit in a white Ford Bronco?

Three prototypes?

#9947 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Three prototypes?

Oh good answer!!! Very sharp!

#9948 3 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

I wonder if the reasons are similar why others haven't called either?

Im on the same page as you. I let it all go and don't care to go back. Dealing with the legal system frustrates me beyond belief as a landlord and I wanted to move on. I have a ton of projects going on to help the pin community and I'd rather focus my energy/money into that now.

-Jim

#9949 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

You do know that many owners lobbied hard (and unsuccessfully) to convince law enforcement to file charges against Kevin, right? Given the lackluster response from the detectives, do you really think investing time and energy pleading for a criminal action is more likely to pan out than a civil claim?

I didn't say it was more likely to occur - only that the criminal side is the only one that would likely result in any satisfaction.

And as some would like to repeatedly state.. we don't know everything that is going on

And the criminal side is one of the few angles that keeps Kevin from walking away from everything and having it wiped out in bankruptcy court.

I don't know what winning a judgement against this kid gains anyone individually. I think it can ultimately lead into even more anger and frustration. A year from now we will have people running around going "A court says Kevin K owes me $4500 and he won't pay!". Or "Kevin still owes me $4500 and yet he's allowed to live and breathe free...". I foresee a lot of people being frustrated with the reality of winning a judgement is only like the first 1/4 of the battle when the other side has nothing to gain from paying.

We don't have 'debtors prisons' and the law offers a lot of protections for personal property and well being. Sure you can claim you ruined this guy, and maybe he continues to live with a shadow chasing him forever... but I doubt that will be enough to quell the anger most people feel. Maybe ultimately Keith the lawyer corners him and drains what he does have... but I imagine it will be a hollow victory at best.

At least if a criminal case were successfully prosecuted - the guy would be labeled a felon which actually has pretty serious consequences even if he didn't spend any time behind bars.

Just my thinking behind the comment...

#9950 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

for me, my action feels better than inaction did.
In other words, the costs (emotional, time, money) are all worth it for me personally.

There you go. We all process differently. Good luck.

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