I lost full pop. $4750. Money is long gone. I'm not chasing it by racking up lawyer fees and time I don't have. Life is too short and I hold no animosity towards Kevin or anyone involved.

My family, income and home were never affected, so it's a non issue to just me.

Pinside is double posting... Weird.

I've contacted Keith to sue Kevin for $4,750...

I hope you guys get what you're after. Best of luck gang.

One thing I dont get. Some people can afford to lose 5k and it will have zero impact on their current lifestyle. However to those who are in this position think back to when you started out and when you busted your hump and gave up plenty to get to your current position. I get pissed off if someone tries to screw me for ten bucks.

Dont let kulek get away especially since he has shown zero remorse.

Every time I buy something at the grocery store, I check the receipt cause half the time they charge me wrong.

If someone charged me wrong to the tune of $4,750 bucks, I'd be asking to see the manager.

rd.

I'm going to at least talk to the lawyer. I received a portion of my money back through my Amex, but the remainder is no longer my primary concern. Kevin should not be allowed to get away with what he has done. It's even more sickening to know that he is continuing to lie. If it takes a little of my time to try to make it right, I'm going to do it.

How can you hold no animosity towards someone that lied to you? Repeatedly and on purpose?

Astounding to me.....

I tried to contact the lawyer in MI, but got no response from my email. I will of course be trying again.

Give it a few days. I am guessing there has been an uptick in people contacting him in the past few days, which is a good thing.

I am just checking in. I believe I have contacted back each and every one of you that has either called me or sent a 'feedback form' from my law office website. If I have missed someone, please accept my apologies as it has not been intentional at all. The calls and emails from this weekend have all been returned (I am typically not in the office on Saturday or Sunday).

Russo121 if you emailed me, I don't see your email. Please feel free to PM me here or call/email at my office website/office phone/office email and I will be happy to discuss your matter with you.

Keith

Bump if you haven't contacted me yet:

Just to bring it back to top of mind:
I am a practicing lawyer in Michigan and would be happy to give a free phone consult with any Predator "investor" about their rights/remedies, and of course happy to represent them to assist in recovery of their monies.
I am currently representing Clients in the matter and have had contact with Mr. Kulek's lawyer, and am quite aware of what is going on.
http://www.nathanson-law.com
248-436-4833 x 111
Keith Nathanson

It is people like you Keith who make all the effort worthwhile. Thanks for offering your services.

Even the Frenchs?
PM sent - emailed you on June 26 - no answer.

How do you guys/gals know that Kevin did not pose as an imposter and join the secret FB group? Do you make people email in a scan of their paypal receipt? Just seems that if all someone had to was email and leave a name and sob paragraph about being ripped off to join, then a person would do it in order to know the groups intentions.

Just curious.

I think they have to provide not only a receipt but several other documents.

PM sent to you Crash.

Can someone provide me with a link to the post(s) by VirtuaPin about the licensing status of the Predator pinball machine. I'm not interested in what SkitB posted, but rather what ViruaPin was writing in the groups.

Thanks

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Thank you for quoting those, now they can't be deleted.

Paul has been a stand-up guy, and I don't think he would have ever deleted those. As you can see in those comments, he was conned like everyone else, and he took responsibility for what he said and gave his explanation for it. He was pretty clear as to what happened and how he was shafted, and probably to a far greater extent then any buyer.

Wasn't there some rumblings about this? Didn't Kevin pay him in advance? If so, how was he shafted?

I doubt it was paid in advance. NoahFentz said money did exchange hands he still lost deal on the deal overall. If that's true my guess is that Kevin made a small deposit on a large order, which didn't cover Noah's costs for the two years he was apparently strung along.

Paul's down fall was stating that the license was secure without actually knowing that it was. He was using his position of relative authority to calm the fears of the customers without actually knowing for sure what he was saying was true. That's the part that isn't stand-up. There is no other way to put that.

Tamoore hit the nail on the head. If I was considering getting a VirtuaPin in the future, I am not at this point.

I approached this the same as if I were in Vegas. I gambled, I lost. I hold no animosity to the casino. I grew up angry. Bitter. Hostile. Got into tons of fights just cuz. This loss isn't in my top 40 of aggravations. I still bust my hump for every dime, but my most cherished asset now is time. My son leaves for Norwich end of August, my daughter leaves next year. Right now these are my priorities. Not chasing a broke moron in Michigan who cares less than I do.

: )

Thing is, Casinos don't lie to your face. They are legitimate entities in which you, a customer, felt your losses were somehow their fault?

This is different. A man (along with others) lied to buyers (you and me) in order to obtain the capital to move forward on a project he KNEW he could not legally complete due to no license being in place to use the intellectual property subject matter of 'Predator'. Knowing this, he then took further monies from people and continued to lie even when promising refunds which still to this day have not transpired.

Being apathetic in regards to this nightmare is part of the reason why the scamming types will always try to take money from others via deception. They know there will be folk like you totally unaffected and unbothered and partly count on that when its time to move on.

Mr Jon T emaus (Kevins lawyer) States thus:

"As way of a brief update and explanation of the current timelines, Skit-B Pinball and Mr. Kulek are currently addressing and resolving the local and Federal criminal investigations as well as the State of Michigan Attorney General inquiries that were initiated by some of the depositors connected with this project. These are moving along and resolving as expected. We anticipate that Skit-B pinball will be able to return to its business operations, including the addressing of refunds, within the next 30 to 60 days."

Sent to me on the 29/05/2015. 32 days ago. 28 days left then? Who wants to wait for another drawn out lie?

Kevin was saying all the right things as far as details that would leave anyone familiar with licensing believing he did have the license, including stating things like that the art was being modified to accommodate licensing issues, etc. I think that gave Paul a level of reasonableness that the license had been aquired. So he was conned, and in 20/20 hindsight was more definitive in his statement than he should have been. His position that he won't do unlicensed things is accurate, and he certainly believe that Kevin was licensed. Paul has stated he was conned, and apologized for misleading anyone, which is why I said he was a 'stand-up guy'.

I believe Paul expanded his business into a larger space, and hired staff to accommodate Kevin's plans. Which of course kept changing until dying. So, that is why I believe he was hurt more then most others.

I can certainly understand if there are some who will not forgive him, that is certainly their right, but I think that anger is misplaced, it all belongs on Kevin.

Stop being reasonable. Anyone who made eye contact with Kevin in the past 3 years needs to be put in jail.

I'm not sure where you get this impression from. Doesn't VPF violate the hell out of the Bally/Williams, Gottlieb, etc... licenses by providing the virtual tables it does, or is he licensing all of those?

They don't sell the software, they sell the hardware.

Just to be clear. Paul owns both virtuapin and vpforums. Virtuapin sells hardware. VPForums distributes content with copyrights. The content is "free" up to a certain number a day, but they charge for memberships that allow you to download more. In my eyes that's selling, but you could say he's getting around it with a technicality.

I just don't see Paul as the angel he claims to be when it comes to copyrights.

Nevermind, sorry. I didn't know he owned VP forums.

If you knew anything about, well, anything, you'd know I approached Gary, Roger (who took it to WMS legal), and various other IP holders, and they all support what we do. We're preserving pinball history through software simulation, and have done so for over 15 years now, as a community.

What really should be clarified is your involvement in a very similar site, hosting illegal hacks and recreations of games that are NOT on the okay list, like Metallica, for example, or any SAM system games, for that matter.

You were not only an admin at said site, you still help with development of said site, do you not?

Amazing to me is the gall you have slinging accusations at me, when what we do has been okayed, and you're the one whose ethics are questionable, at best.

You can stop the smear campaign now. Anyone paying attention can see you do nothing but follow my posts, denouncing at every available opportunity. It's clearly a personal vendetta. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you.

Should we believe you on this one too? You have a history of being full of it. You lied to me on a couple of occasions. I still have the PMs. Should I release those?

I'm not an admin on VPU, nor did I have any involvement in bringing the site up. I wrote the ledwiz configtool for myself a long time ago and hosted it on my own site for fun. After VPU came up I gave them the software, as I didn't feel like hosting it anymore. The administration of that tool was passed on as well.

I have never released anything other than the configtool, which violates no copyrights.

Once again, you're being dishonest.

I believe you are an unethical person, and I will continue to voice my opinion when the topic comes up.

And I believed Skit B had the license. We'll all have a turn being mistaken. Such is life.

And your posts made customers like me believe there was a license - therefore inciting us to stay on board, missing the Paypal 180-day dispute limit, and losing the full $4750. Such is life.

And for that, I've apologized. I feel horrible about it.

I hope you can understand that I was duped, like the rest of you. I had five years of really hard work establishing my company jeopardized by his deceit. I'm on the same side as you on this.

I've even offered my assistance to the investigation. That's all I really can do.

Thanks.

Anyone check shit-b's Facebook page lately? Looks like Kevin has deleted everything to do with Pred and has littered his FB page with EOD propaganda? Does he really think he can get EOD off the ground after lying and stealing from us?

Adam Savage is pretty accessible on Imgur and other places. Has anyone messaged him to show him this disaster in relation to EoD?

what is EOD?

Experts of Dangerous, Skit-B's second pin based on Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage (the Mythbusters).

I wonder if Adam savage and Jamie Hyneman realise that their names may be brought into disrepute if they allow the use of their likeness by Skit-B?

Furthermore, do they even know of the game's existance?

I think they do. I can't find the picture, but if I remember it right there was a picture of Jamie signing EoD translites or standing next to one or something.

EDIT: found the pic, he was signing them

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