(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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There are 18269 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 366.
#801 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

this is what i don't get.
why show or talk about game #2 when people want to see pictures of that famous team working on Predator.

Better them talking about it rather then trying to collect money for it.

Few things made me MORE distrustful of JJP then when they starting pushing people to prepay for THe Hobbit before WOZ was out the door....it just reeks of "stealing from Peter to pay Paul"

#802 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

The fact that Kevin was able to entice new people to work with him and what he wants to do with his games should give Predator owners a little more confidence in what Kevin and Skit-B are doing in the short and long term.

11
#803 4 years ago

I think the real lesson here, and it's one that people are apparently going to have to keep learning over and over and over again is that when you don't communicate you poison the well.

If people had been kept in the loop on what was happening with all the money they had sent in this whole time they'd probably be more interested in seeing what other projects were going on.

Problem is, as much as I think Aaron is a great guy to put in charge of something, everyone is wondering how much time was put into even getting the EoD game to this point to hand it off, when there were giant communication blackouts and it's been a year since the Predator was supposedly done.

That's a populated game, with a printed playfield including full art (whatever I think of it). Remember how long it took Predator to get to that point? It's work.

Now maybe it was all done while Predator things were in holding patterns, and it was an efficient use of time. We don't know that, because everything was blacked out.

And this affects a lot more than just Predator customers (of which I am not one) because how are you going to build up the confidence to have people order your next game when you show how you do(n't) business with the first?

#804 4 years ago

I've stayed out of this for the most part, but what I don't get at all at this point is what are they actually doing? Like physically, what is Kevin and SkitB doing day to day? Building machines? Painting stuff? Wiring? Waiting for parts? Drinking Coffee? Working a dayjob?

#805 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

what are they actually doing? Like physically, what is Kevin and SkitB doing day to day? Building machines? Painting stuff? Wiring? Waiting for parts? Drinking Coffee? Working a dayjob?

Michael-Douglas.gif
#806 4 years ago

So I'm guessing you don't have an answer?

I'm seriously curious, not trying to stir the pot. I could list to you the 3-4 things I worked on (or wasted time on hehe) today to chew up ~8 hours and work towards a project goal. I'm just wondering what those things are regarding Predator machines being sold/constructed/tested/shipped - the game has been "mission complete" for months so what is there to do but build games and ship them?

All the pics I've seen are what vendors have/are delivering months (years?) ago and less about "What did SkitB accomplish in the past weeks" with the exception of the recent semi-assembled PF pic. People keep saying there's a team of people working for SkitB, laborers, engineers, techs, whatever - I'm not saying they are doing nothing, I'm asking what are all these people doing today, Feb 11 2015, to get Predator one step closer to out the door? PF assembly? Quality testing? mech re-design? Licensing? Packaging?

#807 4 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

this is what i don't get.
why show or talk about game #2 when people want to see pictures of that famous team working on Predator. show pictures of cabinets, people working on playfield, wire harness... anything. it takes seconds to do that.

Exactly why I dropped out. They wanted half the money back in May and not even so much as a picture of their build location, staff, etc coupled with months of zero communication, over a year late and every time it went to a show it was broken.

Y'all might one day get your predators but I just don't gamble when thousands of bucks are involved.

Talking up game 2 when game 1 hasn't been delivered is insulting to the folks who have been beyond patient. But on the plus side, if the people involved can't comprehend why that's a PR nightmare, then that's one more validation that getting out was the right call.

#808 4 years ago

Still curious how SkitB is bank rolling EOD?

#809 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Still curious how SkitB is bank rolling EOD?

Um, hope this answers the question:

Screen Shot 2015-02-11 at 5.47.54 PM.png

#810 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Um, hope this answers the question:

I hope my build money isn't funding EOD though it is the only thing that makes sense at the moment.

#811 4 years ago

When this thread was started 17 pages ago, I would still get excited by any positive news or statement that production was right around the corner. I would second guess my decision to drop this preorder and get my downpayment returned. I actually felt badly for SB that I had decided to bail on them. But their lack of communication and refusal to update their customers on general issues was a primary factor. Also I didn't want the risk of not knowing what the final version looked like or whether they would be built & delivered.

It is fair to say that I am over this guilt and am much happier for it. Good luck to those that have hung tough and I wish all your dreams come true with Predator.

#812 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Now maybe it was all done while Predator things were in holding patterns, and it was an efficient use of time.

This is the truth. When Kevin's artists were wrapped on Predator, they were free to start iterating on EoD. There was a period, about a year ago now, that was loaded with waiting on 3rd parties. Which was about the time the whole EoD stuff started up. Already having worked with Spooky for the Predator playfields, Kevin's artists already knew the requirements for getting a new playfield printed. The only reason EoD was announced when it was was to be able to have Jamie and Adam (though Adam had a conflict late in the planning) be a part of the announcement. In hindsight, knowing the delays Predator had, all agree that postponing that announcement would have been a good idea.

I spent almost a week out at Kevin's shop before Expo last year hooking up hardware for the first time. So really, the project has lumbered along in the background. It will be picking up steam as programming the game has Kevin designed starts happening. All this while he stays focused on Predator. I joke, "you gotta get your work done before you can play!"

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#813 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

When Kevin's artists were wrapped on Predator, they were free to start iterating on EoD.

So same people as Predator huh?

#814 4 years ago

I just can't even imagine EOD being a success. I'll come back and say "IM A BIG BOOB" if it is.

1 & done......if it gets done. Just my prediction....not trying to be nasty or anything.

#815 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

So I'm guessing you don't have an answer?
I'm seriously curious, not trying to stir the pot. I could list to you the 3-4 things I worked on (or wasted time on hehe) today to chew up ~8 hours and work towards a project goal. I'm just wondering what those things are regarding Predator machines being sold/constructed/tested/shipped - the game has been "mission complete" for months so what is there to do but build games and ship them?
All the pics I've seen are what vendors have/are delivering months (years?) ago and less about "What did SkitB accomplish in the past weeks" with the exception of the recent semi-assembled PF pic. People keep saying there's a team of people working for SkitB, laborers, engineers, techs, whatever - I'm not saying they are doing nothing, I'm asking what are all these people doing today, Feb 11 2015, to get Predator one step closer to out the door? PF assembly? Quality testing? mech re-design? Licensing? Packaging?

12
#816 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I just can't even imagine EOD being a success. I'll come back and say "IM A BIG BOOB" if it is.
1 & done......if it gets done. Just my prediction....not trying to be nasty or anything.

I wish I didn't agree with you, but that's the way I feel too. First, they absolutely murdered any chance that many people are going to send them pre-order money again with Predator. Maybe a couple true believers and die hards, but not enough to fund anything.

But that's assuming people even want the game.

I really think Kevin overestimated the interest in the theme, and made a huge mistake re-using the Predator artist. People forgave the Predator art for the most part, because it was a picture of something bad ass that they loved, they could get over the deficiencies. And it kind of looks like an old Data East game, which is the era of the Predator movie, so it's kind of like a time capsule of a game that could have been. That works.

Going back to that well for something modern? It's not just me, the art has been savaged by everyone. That's a serious buzz killer for a game.

And, as they've apparently admitted, they teased it way too early.

Spooky has been teasing their game 2. But you know what? They're shipping machines. Get 30 Predators out the door. Prove that you can deliver. Prove that your team is working. Then you can talk a new game.

#817 4 years ago

What concerns me most, as a Predator customer, is what kind of support will this machine get in the event something goes "wonky". One can presume that the team will be extremely busy with EOD and can also presume that the current lack of communication will continue as such.

I think that in order for SkitB to alleviate this and future concerns from customers, they will most definitely need to do a 180 on communication. They need a PR person, badly. Collectively, we've said this all along - now is the time to fix this. I'm not sure, at this point, if their reputation can be fixed. It may be damaged too much.

Phil
#229

13
#818 4 years ago

The crazy thing about pressing on with EOD is that Pinside IS their market and Pinside has spoken. This is not like Stern, where we don't fully understand their relationships with distributors around the world and how games are sold and how many they send and how particular licenses perform.

Skit-B does not have the business acumen for anything close to that. This is basically a homebrew operation that was carried further than most because they picked up a desirable license. Most of their games sold to Pinside. You remove the desirable license that appeals to Pinside from the formula, there is not much left.

Combine that with them planning to have JJP produce the game, meaning they need to "front load" their sales and send hundreds through the factory at a time. This is not a Spooky 2-game-per-week sleeper release.

And I'm not even touching the "poisoning of the well" with how they've treated their honey pot here on pinside since they don't need any more money at the moment.

That they've spent so much money and resources on the game so far (those are vacuum formed ramps we can see in the photos - further than jpop has gotten), but with no apparent business plan.... seems nuts.

#819 4 years ago

My biggest (probably unrealistic) hope is that very soon they suddenly have a handful of Predators shipping out. That's the only reason I can think of why they're pretty much silent on Predator, they don't want to show anything until it's out the door. But with all this crap, I really want a refund. Yet at this point, it seems just as hard to get a refund as it is to get a Predator in my house. I consider my money long gone...

-2
#820 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

I consider my money long gone...

Get the Predator, play it and sell it for $7k in a few months...

#821 4 years ago

This really wasn't a hard ride. If you really want to see a train wreck read the JPop threads.

#822 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

This really wasn't a hard ride. If you really want to see a train wreck read the JPop threads.

Or how about Stern incomplete code threads. Predator code was complete years before the pin.

How would you like paying $7700 for STLE and 15 months later still waiting for code update?

#823 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

How would you like paying $7700 for STLE and 15 months later still waiting for code update?

I did but at least it's in my house.

#824 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Skit-B does not have the business acumen for anything close to that.

What makes you say something like that...

#825 4 years ago

I think the best commercial for EOD is bringing out Predator as fast as you can. Would work better then saying one line about predator and showing alot of info of the new game.

It will only work against you. Quit talking about EOD until some costumers have predator in their homes.

About eod as a theme... Cant hardly believe it if i am honoust. Finaly you and your mates are building your dream company. I think its what you always wanted, and now its there....

And then you pick a theme what you know of many players wont like at all.

We got a zillion themes that i can think off that would get hyped if you only name the theme.

Do you want to be succesfull? Then pick a theme the masses like, and not 1 hardly anybody will, only because you do.

Yes, i know about wrestling.... I dont like it either, but you cant deny they have a big crowd. Eod has zero crowd, cause nobody knows it. And no, Eod aint mythbusters. I am afraid only rich guys who buy alot of pins might try it.

Missed opportunity. If this pin is gonne sell well, i am eating my shoes.

#826 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Quit talking about EOD until some costumers have Predator in their homes.

Costumers

#827 4 years ago

Haha, . He looks like he is not at home though, but in some waiting room.

#828 4 years ago

I don't have time to read the whollllllllleeeee thread but bottom line.. when is this pin going to be released or able to buy or play.

I had wanted to pre-order one.. then just didn't want to pony up for $ with out certainties.... but still interested

anything definite ?????????????????????

LOVE that photo.. like he's in the waiting room.. wait - CAN'T THE PREDATOR HEAL HIMSELF.... ?

#829 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I did but at least it's in my house.

And fun to play.....finished or not.

#830 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Do you want to be succesfull? Then pick a theme the masses like, and not 1 hardly anybody will, only because you do.

Exactly, Skit B hasn't earned the street cred or artistic license to release a wack theme like EOD. And the art package makes me want to crawl into a corner and scrub the top layer of my skin off with a brillo pad and gasoline. Shit's f'd, I'd advise SkitB to abandon ship, cut life support on EOD, if you can't let some of the sunk costs go, at least get a new artist and re-theme your design.

And where did the money come from to fund this project????.......??? If you need deposits for the first part of your start up and are delivering zero product with no revenue...???????

If you think their email inbox is bad imagine what Quickbooks looks like...

#831 4 years ago

EOD = worst theme ever

#832 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

EOD = worst theme ever

Not EVER....

#833 4 years ago

At the Michigan Pinball Expo a few years ago Predator was set up right across from Greg Freres and his Whoa Nellie . I told Kevin he should have that guy come over and do some doodling on the Predator . He should have taken my advice !

#834 4 years ago
Quoted from pinnaf:

I don't have time to read the whollllllllleeeee thread but bottom line.. when is this pin going to be released or able to buy or play.
I had wanted to pre-order one.. then just didn't want to pony up for $ with out certainties.... but still interested
anything definite ?????????????????????
LOVE that photo.. like he's in the waiting room.. wait - CAN'T THE Predator HEAL HIMSELF.... ?

Tattoo shop dude, not the doctor's office. What I love is the xenomorph hiding in the house plant... Because Heighway's Alien is coming up from behind, and WILL beat predator... Into my house anyway.

#835 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Or how about Stern incomplete code threads. Predator code was complete years before the pin.

Nice! So you can have your machine with slapped-together code now, or complete code but no machine to play it on, but not both ...

#836 4 years ago

I'm not doing cartwheels over the EOD art either, but I like the theme and the concept of the test dummies fighting back. If it's coded as well as Predator is, at a 5k price point, I would definitely consider buying one. But only after I play it. This applies to any company I buy a NIB from. After waiting for code on X-men and never getting updated code on Avengers, I refuse to buy NIB from Stern, unless the title has VE on the end of it.

#837 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Nice! So you can have your machine with slapped-together code now, or complete code but no machine to play it on, but not both ...

Or you could buy from Spooky. Problem solved.

#838 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Or you could buy from Spooky. Problem solved.

...not if you want a Predator...

#839 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Get the Predator, play it and sell it for $7k in a few months...

$10k by Christmas!

#840 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Or you could buy from Spooky. Problem solved.

If only Spooky was "doing" Predator.

I can't wait to support them when they do a theme I like.

#841 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I can't wait to support them when they do a theme I like.

Starts with E and has big boobies.

#842 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

Starts with E and has big boobies.

Elvis: the Later Years?

#843 4 years ago
Quoted from TenaciousT:

At the Michigan Pinball Expo a few years ago Predator was set up right across from Greg Freres and his Whoa Nellie . I told Kevin he should have that guy come over and do some doodling on the Predator . He should have taken my advice !

I was there and remember that. It was straight ahead when you walked in (Predator) and Nellie was to the right when you walked in. That was a great show and had lots of games. Even two rooms on first floor with games due to the overflow. The last two shows have been less machines and only upstairs.

#844 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

Starts with E and has big boobies.

Makes sense. Charlie has always been a big fan of Elvira, and she is a prime candidate for another pin.

#845 4 years ago

I don't think EOD is a terrible theme but not a great one either. I'm a Mythbusters fan but not sure a MB theme is a winner, and it sounds like it's called Experts of Dangerous due to license constraints, so that already raises the question of how much MB will be integrated, versus the "personalities" of the hosts only. Like, without the MB announcer doing call-outs, it would lose a lot.

Additionally, Mythbusters is on the decline since they fired Grant, Tory and Kari. Some people like the change since they're showing more footage of actual builds but the show lost a lot of personality, and personality is mainly what makes pop-science shows work outside of the typical PBS model.

#846 4 years ago

So much for Skitb responding to emails, I have now asked for information on three occasions and a refund twice, and nothing back from them.

So what do I have to do?

a) Start a thread on Pinside? - It worked for another user.

b) Open a PayPal dispute?

c) Kiss good-bye to my cash?

Way I see it is with most of the Pred money now in, and lets be honest very little happening (so we've see 10 bits of wood in a box that look like playfields, and a bunch of plastics in a kitchen, and the latest playfield photo with coloured pens as inserts!), I doubt there is enough money left in the pot to make 250 machines, pay for staff and develop their next machine. What they been living on for the past year to two?

Enough is enough, it may be a good theme but its a quite basic game and if I have to wait another 2 years whilst hoping they don't go bust, I'd rather try to walk out now with something than nothing when the remainder 249 realise the project has gone south!

#847 4 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

Way I see it is with most of the Pred money now in, and lets be honest very little happening (so we've see 10 bits of wood in a box that look like playfields, and a bunch of plastics in a kitchen, and the latest playfield photo with coloured pens as inserts!), I doubt there is enough money left in the pot to make 250 machines, pay for staff and develop their next machine. What they been living on for the past year to two?

Enough is enough, it may be a good theme but its a quite basic game and if I have to wait another 2 years whilst hoping they don't go bust, I'd rather try to walk out now with something than nothing when the remainder 249 realise the project has gone south!

Kevin doesn't need to respond to any emails. He already has the money and prob spent a lot of it. Good luck to anyone trying to get a refund at this point.

12
#848 4 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

So much for Skitb responding to emails, I have now asked for information on three occasions and a refund twice, and nothing back from them.
So what do I have to do?
a) Start a thread on Pinside? - It worked for another user.
b) Open a PayPal dispute?
c) Kiss good-bye to my cash?

Paypal. They dont f#$%^ around.

It's not like you didn't give him every chance to take the MONUMENTALLY difficult 20 seconds to send you a reply. Folks, how can you not be in a panic over this behavior? A brand new machine, from a brand new company- built in his kitchen? What happens when you have a problem? Something that actually requires WORK (more than replying to a simple email).

Sorry, but this kind of behavior from a company is either:
Arrogance
Ignorance, or
Fraudulence.
Choose you're favorite cause.... but don't pretend its some other noble reason.

It's time to set aside the childish excuses:
"He's too busy building your game to answer email"
"He's obligated by licensing agreement to sew his mouth shut"
etc.

#849 4 years ago

Kevin is at the point where he's got your money. This was not the original plan which was you didn't have to pay until your pin was on deck. That makes far more sense as a buyer so you don't have money sitting in Kevin's pockets for a year plus.

He took more than half of the money and yet people are left hanging for a year plus especially if they are not in the first batch.

#850 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

"He's obligated by licensing agreement to sew his moth shut"

Never tried this before, but if you are recommending it, I'll give it a go. What tools would you suggest?

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