(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#8051 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's just like the old saying "The world's best mechanic is not necessarily the best garage owner".

he rarely is...

#8052 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Yes, made by the Pinnovating guys. There was more than 1 made.

Awesome. Never knew they sold it, or that there was more than one.

#8053 4 years ago

^^^ That's the correct way to handle a bootlegged pinball theme.
- internet lawdog

#8054 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

I wonder if he or his family could legally sell the prototype after all this, he will definitely need the cash and I guarantee someone would drop a lot of money on it.

It would be a tough game to play with all that blood on your hands

#8055 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

It would be a tough game to play with all that blood on your hands

If it helped make the buyers whole it wouldn't be hard to wipe off.

68
#8056 4 years ago

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

#8057 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

If it helped make the buyers whole it wouldn't be hard to wipe off.

Yeah, I could see that, that wouldn't be bad, but somehow I don't think the preorder guys would end up with any $$$

#8058 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

I'm really glad to hear that you have a court date.

#8059 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

So I assume this is just a civil case and your attempt to reclaim your money? Are you looking for damages beyond your down payment and also legal fees? I also assume that the detective investigating whether there was criminal activity is a completely separate issue, right?

10
#8060 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

So I assume this is just a civil case and your attempt to reclaim your money? Are you looking for damages beyond your down payment and also legal fees? I also assume that the detective investigating whether there was criminal activity is a completely separate issue, right?

You are correct, sir. Just seeking to reclaim my money and legal fees (which is not much at all). I have paid in full, so it's more than just a down payment I'm looking at for reimbursement. Now, the detective's investigation ain't going away by any means. That's a separate case, and a felony case at that, and he has all my information related to that case as well.
I think that the more trouble that Kevin sees is coming his way, the more likely he is to start taking action and refunding everyone.

#8061 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I think that the more trouble that Kevin sees is coming his way, the more likely he is to start taking action and refunding everyone.

Sadly, the more trouble he sees coming, the more money he will need to hold onto for big legal fees.

#8062 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sadly, the more trouble he sees coming, the more money he will need to hold onto for big legal fees.

But he also didn't do any of this under an LLC, so I think his assets can be liquidated if things get ugly.

#8063 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

But he also didn't do any of this under an LLC, so I think his assets can be liquidated if things get ugly.

Things are ugly. If civil court doesn't end with a resolution, discovery and liquidation of assets is the next step.
Must follow the letter of the law...

#8064 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sadly, the more trouble he sees coming, the more money he will need to hold onto for big legal fees.

If Paypal has actually frozen the account, he can't use those funds for legal fees.

17
#8065 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sadly, the more trouble he sees coming, the more money he will need to hold onto for big legal fees.

It's not like he was rushing to refund the money before authorities got involved.

#8066 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

That is good news. Are you able/willing to disclose what venue you are suing him in?

#8067 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If Paypal has actually frozen the account, he can't use those funds for legal fees.

With all the chargebacks in progress, he really can't refund from Paypal anyway

#8068 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

That is good news. Are you able/willing to disclose what venue you are suing him in?

It's quite simple, really. 75th District Court. Small claims court.
Here's a link to instructions on how to do it.
http://co.midland.mi.us/Courts/75thDistrictCourt/CivilDepartment/SmallClaims.aspx

Here's more information about the process.
http://courts.mi.gov/Self-help/center/casetype/Pages/SmallClaimsSH.aspx

It includes a link to help in filling out the forms.
http://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-help-tools/consumer/i-have-small-claims-case

I hope this helps out anyone seeking this route. Still there's no guarantees this route will be successful. But it's a step in the right direction.

#8069 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

With all the chargebacks in progress, he really can't refund from Paypal anyway

Exactly.

#8070 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I hesitated to mention what's been going on because I've been afraid Kevin might be a flight risk. But he's finally been serviced by the Midland County Sheriff's Office, and I have a court date with him on the calendar.
So, if Kevin and/or his attorney read this, feel free to contact me so we can settle this out of court. Otherwise, I'll look forward to seeing you there. I'm glad to see a little traction made here, although I know there is still a long way to go.

So you are going to be spending money on attorney's fees (and attempt to get a default judgement against Kevin which he will be ordered to pay if he does not show up) or you will attempt to get a brief hearing with the judge ruling in your favor. Kevin's defense will be that he is still making the game so he does not have to give you a refund. Your response will be that Kevin does not have a license to make the game, and therefore cannot legally complete it.

And now is when it gets really interesting! The judge will want to know all all he can about the legality of the licensing. Kevin will tell the judge that he will prove he has the licensing after the Sheriff Department is done with their investigation and he is found innocent. The judge will drop his pencil and say "what investigation by what Sheriff Department?" Now Kevin will claim he is still making the game and that he has his licensing and will prove it if there ends up being a criminal trial, so he does not have to refund you or anyone else. The judge will ask why your attorney brought a civil case in front of him that has no merit until the criminal case is decided or at least the investigation is done (and he will not be happy). He will rule that the criminal case or investigation must be completed before the civil case can proceed, because if Kevin is found innocent in the criminal case your civil case is without merit. Additionally as he finds out how big this case is, how much money is involved, and how many victims there are in this he will quickly realize how complicated it is. I hope your attorney is working for free. Because if you believe that this case will be settled between your attorney and the local judge you have never spent any time in a courtroom. The judge will not allow each of these civil cases to proceed on its individual merits for the simple reason of it not being fair to all the other victims just because you got there first. Its just like the Bernie Madoff case.....everyone gets a small piece of the pie whenever a pie is found. In the Madoff case they even TOOK money from his earlier investors who had been paid and re-distributed that among the other victims. So if your attorney does somehow get your money back first the courts will come back for part of it to pay the losses of the other victims when it is all settled later.

That is why this whole thing belongs in one criminal court with all the charges being made at the same time and all the evidence being presented at the same time. Attempting to split it up into pieces in civil courts all over the country is not going to be efficient whether Kevin is found guilty or not criminally. You can file charges in the jurisdiction you lived in when you sent in the money, or in the jurisdiction where Kevin took your money. Nice mess that would be huh? Good luck getting any money.

Now if you are filing in small claims court its a simple matter. There are no attorneys allowed and there is a limit on how much money you can collect. If Keven simply does not show up he automatically loses and is ordered to pay by default, or if Kevin does show up and is ordered to pay, he just never pays. You then make a court date to ask the judge to get your money and the judge says "I'm sorry sir but we are not a collection agency. You will have to hire an attorney, find his assets, get him served with papers for a court appearance and have him appear in front of me. I will order him to pay you or forfeit his assets you found, and if he fails to do so I will authorize a warrant charging him with violation of a court order". Kevin then walks out of the court room after promising the judge he will do as he was instructed and mutters "f%^k that judge" as he drives away. At some point after that he will be stopped for a burned out tail light some night and an officer will arrest him on the outstanding warrant for violating the court order. The judge will want to know why he did not pay, and he will tell the judge he is broke and spend some time in the county jail. Meanwhile as far as your money goes...well....he does not have it. So he spends the rest of his life being stopped for burned out tail lights, telling the judge he is broke and spending a week or two in the county jail.

There is no guarantee that this is how the scenario goes exactly folks. But after 25 years of law enforcement I can tell you that it will be similar unless everything falls under one big class action civil suit, Fox does not prosecute, and Kevin still has a large chunk of the money left to repay everyone with. You have to remember that the credit card companies and banks now have a vested interest in this case too since they have given chargebacks. They will have their attorneys involved to make sure they get back their piece of the pie as well as getting reimbursed for their attorney's time.

Law Enforcement class 101 completed. I apologize for the very long winded sarcastic explanation. Good luck on all of your final exams and I hope everyone gets back every penny they put into this debacle.

27
#8071 4 years ago

Sorry playernumber4, I have a little trouble following your logic. First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation. It's me, Kevin and the judge/magistrate. This case and the criminal investigation are separate things. There's lots of good information provided in the links I provided above. This should help you understand the process a little better. Of course, I do not claim to be any expert, however the detective was very supportive and encouraging when I explained to him what I'm doing.
Now, if Kevin can't/won't pay, then it starts to get a good bit uglier. We file for a property discovery, and then force liquidation of assets. I sure hope it won't go that far. He'll just be digging his hole deeper if he plays that card.
Now, I do have a long drive ahead of me to get to Michigan, but hey I'm taking some time off and am going to make a little vacation out of it. So, I'm making lemonade out of lemons, if I can.

#8072 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Now, I do have a long drive ahead of me to get to Michigan, but hey I'm taking some time off and am going to make a little vacation out of it. So, I'm making lemonade out of lemons, if I can.

Good luck, hope it goes well. Stop by Marvins Mechanical Museum in Farmington Hills if you have time. Every pinhead should visit there once.

17
#8073 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

The judge will ask why a civil case and criminal case are going on at the same time on the same matter and rule that one must be completed before the other because this case is too complicated and there are too many victims.

What are you talking about??

A Judge isn't going to defer shit to a criminal case. He will hear a single civil case on it's merits. There is no legal basis to say "one must be completed before the other".

If Kevin files for bankruptcy, that's a different matter.

Are you an attorney? Or did you just sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

#8074 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What are you talking about??
A Judge isn't going to defer shit to a criminal case. He will hear a single civil case on it's merits. There is no legal basis to say "one must be completed before the other".
If Kevin files for bankruptcy, that's a different matter.
Are you an attorney? Or did you just sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

I prefer this:

lebowski.jpg
#8075 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Sorry playernumber4, I have a little trouble following your logic. First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation. It's me, Kevin and the judge/magistrate. This case and the criminal investigation are separate things. There's lots of good information provided in the links I provided above. This should help you understand the process a little better. Of course, I do not claim to be any expert, however the detective was very supportive and encouraging when I explained to him what I'm doing.
Now, if Kevin can't/won't pay, then it starts to get a good bit uglier. We file for a property discovery, and then force liquidation of assets. I sure hope it won't go that far. He'll just be digging his hole deeper if he plays that card.
Now, I do have a long drive ahead of me to get to Michigan, but hey I'm taking some time off and am going to make a little vacation out of it. So, I'm making lemonade out of lemons, if I can.

Every state must be different.
I sued in small claims in Illinois. Small Claims in Illinois is $5000 or less. I showed up representing myself. The other two parties showed up with legal representation. I lost. But learned a great deal. Actually got complimented how well I did prepare my case. It was simple, I had no written documentation of request for shipping insurance on a motorcycle I had purchased that was damaged in shipping. So that is why I lost.

#8076 4 years ago

Does anyone besides me think that the government officials (judge, fbi, detectives, sheriffs office, etc) think that this is the weirdest case ever brought before them?

I really hope what happens in court is either filmed or perfectly documented. I'm dying to hear what Kevin's lawyer comes up with...there is no rational defense for what he did.

#8077 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

So you are going to be spending money on attorney's fees (and get a default judgement against Kevin which he will be ordered to pay if he does not show up....(but the judge will tell you he is not a collection agency and cannot get the money for you). Or if Kevin shows up he is going to be ordered to pay you and his court costs (but of course he will not. He will plead to the judge that he is broke right now and his assets are tied up in the criminal case he has pending). The judge will want to know what the criminal case is about, you will then have to pay more attorneys fees to get a court order to attempt to obtain some of his assets via the court at a show cause hearing despite the ongoing criminal case (at which time Kevin will claim he is still making the game or does not have the money). The judge will ask why a civil case and criminal case are going on at the same time on the same matter and rule that one must be completed before the other because this case is too complicated and there are too many victims. and your case will be "pushed to the side" until the criminal case is done. I hope your attorney is working for free. Because if you believe that this case will be settled between your attorney and the local judge you have never spent any time in a courtroom. The judge will not allow each case to proceed on its individual merits for the simple reason of it not being fair to all the other victims just because you got there first. Its just like the Bernie Madoff case.....everyone gets a small piece of the pie whenever a piece of it is found. In the Madoff case they even TOOK money from his earlier investors who had been paid and re-distributed that among the victims. So if your attorney does somehow get your money back immediately the courts will come back for part of it to pay the losses of the other victims.
This whole thing belongs in one criminal court with all the charges being made at the same time. Attempting to split it up into pieces of civil courts all over the county is not going to be allowed to happen, and it should'nt. It is counter productive. Good luck regardless...

You are incorrect on a number of your statements.

10
#8078 4 years ago

People are on judge judy fighting over dildo money and false teeth every day, it's worse in the real courts. Predator is nothing to them.

#8079 4 years ago
Quoted from gamestencils:

People are on judge judy fighting over dildo money and false teeth

Nearly got down on the floor laughing, thinking of people standing in court fighting over dildo money!!!
That was a good one!

Mike in Kentucky

#8080 4 years ago

"Plaintiff is suing for $20 to cover the cost of his stolen vibrator. He claims he needs it back for 'personal research purposes.' "

*Looks at defendant*
*Looks at case papers*

"Case dismissed."

#8081 4 years ago

Just make damn sure you have written confirmation of vibrator theft insurance.

#8082 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

It's 'counsel.' Goddamned Learning By Phonics!!!!

Wow, didn't expect to get called out for that. Manor gets me every time.

-2
#8083 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What are you talking about??
A Judge isn't going to defer shit to a criminal case. He will hear a single civil case on it's merits. There is no legal basis to say "one must be completed before the other".
If Kevin files for bankruptcy, that's a different matter.
Are you an attorney? Or did you just sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Kevin's defense is that he will still be completing the games. The judge cannot rule out that defense until the investigation is done and it is proven that he cannot complete the games because he has no licensing. The courtroom is a very interesting place to be sometimes.

#8084 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Sorry playernumber4, I have a little trouble following your logic. First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation. It's me, Kevin and the judge/magistrate. This case and the criminal investigation are separate things. There's lots of good information provided in the links I provided above. This should help you understand the process a little better. Of course, I do not claim to be any expert, however the detective was very supportive and encouraging when I explained to him what I'm doing.
Now, if Kevin can't/won't pay, then it starts to get a good bit uglier. We file for a property discovery, and then force liquidation of assets. I sure hope it won't go that far. He'll just be digging his hole deeper if he plays that card.
Now, I do have a long drive ahead of me to get to Michigan, but hey I'm taking some time off and am going to make a little vacation out of it. So, I'm making lemonade out of lemons, if I can.

Bring some vodka for that lemonade Enaud. The court system can be very frustrating despite how clearly the process seems to be when you read the statutes. Again, good luck and I hope the weather gets better for your trip. May you be blessed with a magistrate who is tired of seeing people take advantage of the system.

21
#8085 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Kevin's defense is that he will still be completing the games. The judge cannot rule out that defense until the investigation is done and it is proven that he cannot complete the games because he has no licensing. The courtroom is a very interesting place to be sometimes.

Kevin already admitted he will not be completing the games.

#8086 4 years ago

**EDIT: Damn you RobT and your 4 minute faster posting.... well I dug up the evidence at least. That counts for something **

Quoted from playernumber4:

Kevin's defense is that he will still be completing the games.

Yeah.... I don't think that will hold much water so your theories hold little weight. Kevin himself has gone on record (to this plaintiff of all people haha) cancelling the project:

Quoted from Enaud:

Kevin replied to my email this morning although I was unaware of it.
In response to the pending litigation he replied "I assure you that none of that will be necessary. We are cancelling the project and returning all of the money we received to those who sent it in, including yourself. That being said, I will reach out to you, as you've asked."

Also:
378836.png

#8087 4 years ago

How often do people check their paypal accounts for a refund?

#8088 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Kevin's defense is that he will still be completing the games. The judge cannot rule out that defense until the investigation is done and it is proven that he cannot complete the games because he has no licensing. The courtroom is a very interesting place to be sometimes.

Again, incorrect.

#8089 4 years ago

Ah yes, forgot he said he is done. But he's toast with the Feds anyway.

I just hope that there is enough funds left to give everyone the majority of their money. I feel bad for Enaud driving all the way up here to plead his case. The magistrate should certainly smell a rat there immediately and demand to know the whole story behind his request. Hopefully he will get to leave with some of the funds he put out, but somebody is going to have to represent all the victims here and make sure they get represented equally. Congrats Enaud for going to such lengths for the team. I would pay for the Vodka for the lemonade if you were passing by this way.

#8090 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If Paypal has actually frozen the account, he can't use those funds for legal fees

Does anyone know how much money was in the account when it was frozen? Couldn't he have pulled a substantial amount out before it was frozen?

Also, is he really a flight risk? He has a wife and 3 kids. He'd have to abandon them

#8091 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

**EDIT: Damn you RobT and your 4 minute faster posting.... well I dug up the evidence at least. That counts for something **

Yeah.... I don't think that will hold much water so your theories hold little weight. Kevin himself has gone on record (to this plaintiff of all people haha) cancelling the project:

Also:
378836.png

It's been one month now since he wrote that email and he still hasn't officially refunded anyone. I feel embarrassed to have given him the benefit of the doubt. Really the only thing Kevin has been doing in the past month is play Predator and peek out the window for you guys.

blinds.jpg
#8092 4 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Does anyone know how much money was in the account when it was frozen? Couldn't he have pulled a substantial amount out before it was frozen?
Also, is he really a flight risk? He has a wife and 3 kids. He'd have to abandon them

Unfortunately only Kevin knows how much is in Paypal. If you call in and explain the situation to an agent, they'll see his account and how much is inside, however, they can't disclose anything.

#8093 4 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Also, is he really a flight risk?

Runs in the family...

*pun intended

#8094 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

somebody is going to have to represent all the victims here and make sure they get represented equally.

What an innovative concept! Too bad there's not an existing mechanism in place in the U.S. court system to ensure that this would happen.

#8095 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

First, in such a civil case as this, neither side is allowed legal representation.

Enaud, when I was looking into this matter myself, I found this line from courts.mi.gov in regards to small claims court.

"If you want an attorney to represent you, you should tell the court before the trial, and the case will be transferred from the small claims division to the regular district court. See MCL 600.8408 and form DC 86"
"Either party may request that the case be removed from the small claims division. In that situation, the trial will not be held and the small claims case will be treated like a regular civil case and decided later."

Considering his lawyer is free, he will most certainly be able to get representation. Then, if you aren't prepared, you'll be without representation fighting against a lawyer.

Then, even if you get the ruling... "If the party owing the judgment fails to pay the judgment when ordered, you must go back to the court and file additional papers to collect on the judgment by having the wages or a bank account garnished or property seized. This cannot occur until 21 days after the judgment is entered. "

I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is what I found for MI courts.

#8096 4 years ago

Also, linking to that email might not help, as it was a personal email. The group email looks better.

"At this point, the faith in what we've worked so hard to achieve has been absolutely shattered and I am left with no other option than to abandon everything and make good on our promises that your investments are safe and return all money associated with the project until anything else happens, if anything else should happen."

"To the many of you who have continued to support us and prefer to receive your game, I'm sorry to say that this is the end of the road and you, too, will be receiving a refund instead of a machine."

#8097 4 years ago

playboywillis...That is pretty much correct.

#8098 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Unfortunately only Kevin knows how much is in Paypal. If you call in and explain the situation to an agent, they'll see his account and how much is inside, however, they can't disclose anything.

Unless you are Whysnow and have the world's most helpful customter service rep...

#8099 4 years ago

Either or both may be represented by an attorney. The attorney(s), if any, will not be court-appointed in a civil case, and will not be free.

#8100 4 years ago

Free as in we're paying for it.

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