(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

5 years ago



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#701 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I had to have moved up from #77, that was the number I had a year ago. Who knows with the flakey way Skit-B does business, Im sure people that weren't in from the beginning managed to get around some of us that have been in from the get go. Who would know though cause the communication sucks.

Isn't it better to have your game ship later anyway, so that if any issues pop up in the early games they can be addressed in yours before it is made?

#702 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Isn't it better to have your game ship later anyway, so that if any issues pop up in the early games they can be addressed in yours before it is made?

I was thinking that, AMH for example had some issues fixed after some of the earlier games shipped.

#703 5 years ago

Who is building the games for them?

#705 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Isn't it better to have your game ship later anyway, so that if any issues pop up in the early games they can be addressed in yours before it is made?

I would normally say yes but the way I think they will end up taking 4 years to get to 100 maybe longer so my patience has worn thin. I would also hope after the amount of time it has taken that the majority of the bugs should have been addressed. Its kind of like when you ask a woman how many men she has been with you multiply that by 3 and you have the more likely number. Kevin told me to expect my game in late January early February so multiply the time I was told by 3: August to February 6 months times 3, so thats 18 months, 6 have already gone by, ill receive mine in February of 2016. Lol that doesn't seem like a fun wait.

#706 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I think they will end up taking 4 years to get to 100 maybe longer

19
#707 5 years ago

I don't comment often on this thread and a lot of the conversation is about skit-b not being professional and lacking communication.

Look at some of the professional companies out there, and I'm not just talking pinball, who are full of communication(bullsh*t) and have gone up in a poof of smoke and in the process, burning a lot of people.

I'm not bothered that they're not coming across as professional or communicating often.

What I AM bothered about is their passion and dedication to do this right. Everything starts from nothing and you could see how passionate they were from the beginning. And they really cared about this machine. They weren't shouting from the roof tops and setting off fireworks with massive glitzy announcements. Just a bunch of really passionate guys who love what they're doing.

That's why I'm in and that's why I've always believed 100% that this will happen. Well, apart from loving the Predator theme of course

#708 5 years ago

Bump

#709 5 years ago

BigPhil for the big thumbs up!

#710 5 years ago

Well said BigPhil, well said.

#711 5 years ago

Big Thumbs Up for Big Phil...Big Douche for Sad Sack....just sayin'....

1 week later
#712 5 years ago

Hey

I WROTE to Skit B Support under support@skitbpinball.com
The email came back "the email account that you tried to reach does not exist"

I used the Support mail Adress that i always used without having had any problems before.

As I did not get answers to my last mails during the last Weeks I wonder if anyone Is having the actual mail Adress for me? IT Is Odd that the Adress doesn't work but maybe IT is something with the Server?

#713 5 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

The email came back "the email account that you tried to reach does not exist"

LOL It is unfortunate their first prompt response to an email is this.

#714 5 years ago

I just now successfully sent an email through their website.

http://www.skitbpinball.com/

#715 5 years ago

I've had a few unanswered emails to Skitbsupport as well as Kevin's email. At least one thing remains consistent with this project, the unwillingness to answer emails. It's terribly unprofessional considering the way things have been handled since the Mission Complete fiasco. At some point you would think they would update customers to when the newest projected production dates are? Maybe they have no idea?

15
#716 5 years ago

Guys, you are being totally unreasonable.

Do you realize he has to drive to Wisconsin and load pf in the back of his hatchbatch for every 10 he starts building?

Do you want him driving back and forth to get your parts, or wasting valuable MINUTES sending out a few paragraph update!?!?!?!? Emailing while operating a small car filled with pinball parts is DANGEROUS!

You folks are nuts.

Don't you people realize it sometimes takes as much as 20 seconds to reply to an email!?!!?!?!? Give the guy a break. Leave him in peace and let him get these damn _____________ machines done!

#717 5 years ago

Has anything official came out regarding the game in 2015? Will Whysnow get his game delivered to him in person by the Skit B team come MGC time?

#718 5 years ago

Ease down the drama gents. We preorder guys ( well, me anyways), get it.

Paid in full here since 2013. It's a small startup. They stink at communication. Things are FAR behind schedule. First world problems I guess.

Last email was ok, so far, so lackluster, but snails pace is better than no pace.

#719 5 years ago

I'm trying to understand why he needed the money 6 months ago?

#720 5 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Has anything official came out regarding the game in 2015? Will Whysnow get his game delivered to him in person by the Skit B team come MGC time?

That would be great, but at this point I am just glad to see progress.

#721 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm trying to understand why he needed the money 6 months ago?

...because he is building pinball machines

#722 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Paid in full here since 2013. It's a small startup. They stink at communication. Things are FAR behind schedule. First world problems I guess.

With the now 20% exchange rate on the Canadian dollar, I wish I was also paid in full!

#723 5 years ago
Quoted from rolandthoms:

...because he is building pinball machines

A majority of vendors/suppliers operate on terms like net 30. You do not need the money until 30 days after parts are delivered. In fact, there is a large amount that due net 60 days...some even 90 days. As the purchaser you are also in a position to negotiate/demand different terms based on the order size and the trust in your business to survive. Being a start up I guess you would not have a major influence unless you were soliciting orders from other "New" type (start-up) vendors/suppliers...they are out there.

#724 5 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

With the now 20% exchange rate on the Canadian dollar, I wish I was also paid in full!

I'm coming up for a Canada visit, soon!

#725 5 years ago

I was hoping for more update pictures in the Skit b newsletter that came today. It sounds like good news for people with early builds, they may be getting their Predators soon.

#726 5 years ago

Today's newsletter left alot to be desired. Most of it was expo talk and there online store coming soon. Let's not forget the pics of whitewoods from years ago. Happy I got a update just wish there was some useful info in it or pictures from this year .

#727 5 years ago

The last thing Skit-B need to be doing is going to expos, if that's what they end up doing I'm requesting a refund. That company is so far behind schedule that the only thing they should be concentrating on is building predators. Yet another newsletter where there is no substance. If you're so close to shipping some games why are there no pictures of production, if you are wiring the damn machines up then snap some pics of progress. Shit is getting old. Who knows where we all are in the production schedule, are we looking at this year? Next? Never?

#728 5 years ago

I have sent emails to them and got no reply, so have sent another one today, I'm not holding my breath.

Agree this is getting old, my $$$ could be put to good use in another pin....

#729 5 years ago

I think they are building them in his kitchen. That's prob why the pics are selective.

#730 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Ease down the drama gents. We preorder guys ( well, me anyways), get it.
Paid in full here since 2013. It's a small startup. They stink at communication. Things are FAR behind schedule. First world problems I guess.
Last email was ok, so far, so lackluster, but snails pace is better than no pace.

Yup, pinball sure is a "1st" world problem...

#731 5 years ago

I wouldn't expect substance in every single "bi-weekly" newsletter, I really appreciate that this one was right on time. Its better than him waiting for something substantial to write about and in the mean time everyone is riled up that the newsletter is late.

#732 5 years ago

I am VERY happy with this newsletter. Sounds to me like things are progressing, first batch is nearing completion, and they are hard at work.

I like the opportunity to reflect back from where things all came from.

Next I WANT to see beautiful finished clear ramps. That to me is the last custom part needed to bring this all together.

We have seen pfs, plastics, all game specific toys, cabinets, and a bunch of parts.

Wiring harnesses are a PITA and sounds like they are getting those figured out. That leaves ramps.

When the first batch goes out the door I am sure that things will get smoother over time.

I will be honest that I am both excited and a bit nervous to be in the first batch. Will be cool to get the game soon and be able to share it with others, but we all know improvements will come over time as things get ironed out during production.

This whole thing is going to take some time, but getting over the hurdle of delivering the first batch seems to be getting closer.

I will say, that I also do not care to see them at any shows until that first batch is delivered. After that, then then cool. They are still pinheads and deserve the opportuntiy to come play pinball and hang. I had a blast hanging and playing with them at previous shows, so hope they come to MGC again (after they have finished my game). Kevin promised to wear the shirt of shame along with me at MGC so I am assuming he will be there as a pinhead at minimum, even if not with a booth/skitB as the bigger picture.

#733 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Sounds to me like things are progressing, first batch is nearing completion

Not trying to be a A$$ but didn't most of us think this back when 'Mission Complete" was put out?

I am fully in on this as well and have been in from the beginning but I was overly disappointed with the last update. I already know where it all started and have seen the old pictures. Give us some new substance of what is going on NOW and when the actual completion of the first few games will be finished, if they are actually that close.

I for one would rather here about Now, not the past.

#734 5 years ago

oh, I completely agree that I would rather see a picture of completed wiring harnesses and ramps, but I think the old pics also help to put it all in perspective.

pics and regualr news is valued and glad they are providing this.

#735 5 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

The last thing Skit-B need to be doing is going to expos, if that's what they end up doing I'm requesting a refund. That company is so far behind schedule that the only thing they should be concentrating on is building predators.

I just hope they're not counting on sales of Experts of Dangerous to help fund the Predator builds.

They're so behind on the schedule that they're losing money from each Predator just due to inflation.

#736 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I just hope they're not counting on sales of Experts of Dangerous to help fund the Predator builds.
They're so behind on the schedule that they're losing money from each Predator just due to inflation.

And you would have to be insane to hand over any money for Experts of Dangerous before it's ready to ship.

#737 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I just hope they're not counting on sales of Experts of Dangerous to help fund the Predator builds.
They're so behind on the schedule that they're losing money from each Predator just due to inflation.

That is a broad assumption. Maybe their BOM is low enough that they are just fine.

Keep in mind that Predator is a pretty minimalistic machine. They may not be getting paid for their time right now, but 4750 is still a decent chunk of cash to bring in on a pretty low cost build.

#738 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That is a broad assumption.

I don't mean that they're selling each one at a loss, I don't know their numbers. I mean that they're losing money from each one. That's just a fact unfortunately. They took the money so long ago that the value of that cash vs what they're buying the parts for has an increased delta.

#739 5 years ago

very ture. It will hurt them due to the added cost of parts now vs 6months ago.

I am guessing that the BOM is pretty low, and if they can get a somewhat reasonable/efficient pace of game build then they will still make a nice profit on the back end.

I know that I could personally assemble a full game in under a week, and if I had all the parts on hand (cab wired and done, pf on a rottessiere, wiring harnesses built, and parts ready to rock) with a small assembly line, then I could easily put together 2 in a week all on my own. Likely even more if I assembly lined my sub producitons.

Predator is a pretty simple game to build so the process (once figured out) should go pretty smooth.

#740 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't mean that they're selling each one at a loss, I don't know their numbers. I mean that they're losing money from each one. That's just a fact unfortunately. They took the money so long ago that the value of that cash vs what they're buying the parts for has an increased delta.

AKA their BOM has gone up due to inflation so they will make less in the end.

#741 5 years ago

Just glad its happening and the 2 week updates put my mind at ease.

#742 5 years ago

Everytime I check updates on this project "it's just another 3 or so months".....enough is enough....much respect to those who have waited, I sure whould not have....

#743 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know that I could personally assemble a full game in under a week, and if I had all the parts on hand (cab wired and done, pf on a rottessiere, wiring harnesses built, and parts ready to rock) with a small assembly line, then I could easily put together 2 in a week all on my own. Likely even more if I assembly lined my sub producitons.
Predator is a pretty simple game to build so the process (once figured out) should go pretty smooth.

Actual assembly time shouldn't take long, if all of the parts are on hand. Testing after assembly will take a little time, as well, but by then, they should be able to show photos of fully assembled games.

#744 5 years ago

Spooky was building 2 games a week, not sure if they're still at that pace. I wouldn't expect Skit-B to blow that out of the water magically. As we just discussed, there isn't gonna be much profit in these games, no money to suddenly build a factory or hire a huge workforce. Call it 10 a month. 250 games = 2 years.

Those are obviously just guesses, but it's based on a functioning real world boutique operation.

So you might want to stay settled in for a bit, the ride for at least some of you is far from over even if it's all smooth sailing from here on out.

#745 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Spooky was building 2 games a week, not sure if they're still at that pace. I wouldn't expect Skit-B to blow that out of the water magically. As we just discussed, there isn't gonna be much profit in these games, no money to suddenly build a factory or hire a huge workforce. Call it 10 a month. 250 games = 2 years.
Those are obviously just guesses, but it's based on a functioning real world boutique operation.
So you might want to stay settled in for a bit, the ride for at least some of you is far from over even if it's all smooth sailing from here on out.

I can make some WAGs, but I think these are being assembled by SkitB, which means they have much lower overhead and ability to work longer hours with less pay per hour. Spooky is doing 2 per week but could up that pretty easily if they desired by adding more people. Predator is a pretty basic game with total parts and layout.

TBT, I am pretty sure spooky is a very differnet model of produciton. They are trying to maintian a well trained workforce for the long haul and only ramp up people when they absolutely need to. SkitB is a get em done sort of production and will likely be working lots of hours with the core group to make it happen. They are likely able to absorb many of the other costs associated with an upstart by doing the assembly on their own backs.

I don't think there is a ton of meat left on the bone, but I think they will still be very profitable and able to produce a bigger number per month once they get production figured out. I mean, I can take a fully populated game apart, clean and rebuild all mechs, tumble, and reassemble in 1 week when really gunning for it. That is a new to me game with all sorts of oddities.

Streamline the process and chunk it into a manufacturing mentality and the speed goes WAY up.
I would bet good money that once trained and assembled 4-5 games, I would be able to do 5 per week all on my own. This assumes I have the right tools and space to assemble in mass.

Day 1 - populate 5 topsides
Day 2 - populate 5 bottoms
Day 3 - attach 5 wire harness
Day 4 - any cab assembly and drop pfs in cabs
Day 5 - tweaks and play testing/ switch adjustments.

May be crazy, but with a simple game and all the correct parts on hand, seems very realistic to me.

Granted it would be aweful work and something I would never want to do full time, but I feel confident I coudl do it and it woudl get easier and faster over time.

#746 5 years ago

Spooky has a staff of full time and part time workers.

To compare Skit B to Spooky, we need to fill in some blanks...

Are the Skit B guys doing this full time? Or do some of them have day jobs? How many are on the Skit B staff currently?

#747 5 years ago

Spooky is ~5 people right? How large is SkitB?

I would think that you would allocate people to do tasks to rech X number of games per week. If a person can do X cab assys, while it takes 3 people to do PFs, and then another to hook up the harnesses and QC, go that route. Doing a group build to do batches might be good for the first week so everyone is on the same page, but after that, specialize and assembly line.

#748 5 years ago

Seems to me most all of us are assuming things and making guesses here, I know I have no idea when these will be complete because I do not know all the logistics.

'Mission Complete' was almost a year ago and I don't believe anyone has received a game yet, but I could be wrong. I know I was excited to get the 'Mission Complete' post and surely did not think it would be this far out from receiving my game.

#749 5 years ago

Pretty sure a 2 per week conservative estimate is fine to assume for now. Maybe they speed it up to 3 or 4 after doing it for a while. Either way, the back half of buyers are looking at more than a year for certain. Wouldn't get too excited.

#750 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Pretty sure a 2 per week conservative estimate is fine to assume for now. Maybe they speed it up to 3 or 4 after doing it for a while. Either way, the back half of buyers are looking at more than a year for certain. Wouldn't get too excited.

Hell, I think there were stretches of MONTHS where JJP wasn't putting out much more than 2/week..... with a FACTORY....

Obviously that was due to supply problems, QC problems, etc, etc.... but SkitB would be susceptible to the same variables....

So, I think Whysnow's (admitted Wild Ass Guess) of 5/week to be fantasy.... heck, it takes this guy 3 weeks to write a biweekly email, how fast do you really think he can assemble pinball machines!

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