(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#7151 4 years ago

One does wonder - and of course this is pure speculation - what would have happened if no one ever asked about the license issue... Would Kevin have gone along in his blissfully naive way - under the radar - and produced all the machines. (I doubt it - I'm sensing that he was a total mess and never was going to pull it off.). But, if he had - and everyone received their machines - then I'm assuming they could keep them. And then Kevin alone would eventually be under legal fire for copyright infringement.

But the Predator owners - not unlike a guy purchasing a fake Rolex on Canal Street - would be left alone.

10
#7152 4 years ago

had it not happened the way it did, we would be chatting in this very thread in page 376 in 2018 wondering when our machines will be delivered.....

#7153 4 years ago

At this point, I would have gladly taken a kit and put it together myself.

Give someone the parts and have it done in a day or two.

-1
#7154 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

I am not. I think they've been pretty insufferable, and I don't buy their moral crusader bullshit either, especially given what I have read about how they were actively taunting Whysnow. I like everyone else have my suspicions about who it may be, but they are just suspicions.
I personally wish they would just come out and own up to it. I get not wanting to be the ones known for "killing the project" and that's why I give them slack for letting PBN vet the story and post it on their timeline, but the continued secrecy is just piss-ant cowardice. Not everyone is gonna like what they did, but their original excuse doesn't hold. Kevin admitted he couldn't build the machines anyway, and that the license "wasn't what he thought it was". So they were right. If you know you were right, just own it.

There was no license.

He stole intellectual property and committed fraud by taking money from customers.

Kevin deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court? Last I check, one can still be arrested before going to court. In court, is when one gets their sentence/punishment.

-1
#7155 4 years ago
Quoted from KingDaddy:

One does wonder - and of course this is pure speculation - what would have happened if no one ever asked about the license issue... Would Kevin have gone along in his blissfully naive way - under the radar - and produced all the machines. (I doubt it - I'm sensing that he was a total mess and never was going to pull it off.). But, if he had - and everyone received their machines - then I'm assuming they could keep them. And then Kevin alone would eventually be under legal fire for copyright infringement.
But the Predator owners - not unlike a guy purchasing a fake Rolex on Canal Street - would be left alone.

They wouldn't be left alone. See Napster from 15 years ago.

#7156 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

There was no license.

How do YOU know this?

#7157 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court? Last I check, one can still be arrested before going to court. In court, is when one gets their sentence/punishment.

Do you get arrested when you go to court for a civil lawsuit?

How much law do you understand?

#7158 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court?

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They wouldn't be left alone. See Napster from 15 years ago.

Out of the 15 million Napster users, how many got arrested?

#7159 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

How do YOU know this?

Um....it's been reported.

-1
#7160 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Do you get arrested when you go to court for a civil lawsuit?
How much law do you understand?

Stealing is not civil...it is CRIMINAL.

#7161 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They wouldn't be left alone. See Napster from 15 years ago.

Napster was different because those who originally downloaded the music had it in their sharing files to re-share with others. Certainly not all of them, but enough for the court to have considered everyone involved to be a part of the conspiracy for both receiving the property and sharing it with others due to the fact that it could be copied on other forms of media and distributed further.

#7162 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, as the story goes, the reason all the websites were scrubbed was because of a Cease & Desist, so there was some awareness by Fox. But we don't know if Kevin's game of keeping things on the down low after that would have succeeded, especially with a 2 year+ production build.

That, and there would be no chance of having parts vendors/suppliers hands dirty by having a part in making it.

Imagine if it did go all the way through, Fox comes in with a few cops to Expo, and takes an axe to said Predator machines in the parking lot. It would be just like old times again.

#7163 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Stealing is not civil...it is CRIMINAL.

How many Napster users got arrested?

26
#7164 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

I know they don't negate one another. I just don't buy being upset because they investigated his claims and found out he was lying. I totally get being pissed at how they went about it. I also get that everyone is pissed at Kevin.

I don't think you totally get it. There seem to be quite a number of people who think the games would have been made if the AG didn't tip off Fox. They're still in denial, apparently, and not looking at the other factors you mentioned: the paper-thin margins, no evidence of ability to manufacture, and a prototype that fell over if you looked at it wrong.

And as a follow-on, apparently they don't care that Fox' IP would have been stolen, nor are they concerned with the possibility that Fox might come after them down the road as a result (which I agree, is pretty unlikely). Their reasoning is, "Okay, Kevin lied. So what? If everyone keeps their trap shut we all get our games."

So bottom line, since they have little or no concern with the theft of Fox IP, or that the game would have been 'unofficial', or that Kevin lied, they place a lot of the blame on the AG for the ending of the project. Under those circumstances, I can understand completely not wanting to reveal themselves.

There are just too many people out there looking for someone - anyone - to blame, and neither logic nor scruples are going to deprive them of it.

10
#7165 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I don't think you totally get it. There seem to be quite a number of people who think the games would have been made if the AG didn't tip off Fox. They're still in denial, apparently, and not looking at the other factors you mentioned: the paper-thin margins, no evidence of ability to manufacture, and a prototype that fell over if you looked at it wrong.
And as a follow-on, apparently they don't care that Fox' IP would have been stolen, nor are they concerned with the possibility that Fox might come after them down the road as a result (which I agree, is pretty unlikely). Their reasoning is, "Okay, Kevin lied. So what? If everyone keeps their trap shut we all get our games."
So bottom line, since they have little or no concern with the theft of Fox IP, or that the game would have been 'unofficial', or that Kevin lied, they place a lot of the blame on the AG for the ending of the project. Under those circumstances, I can understand completely not wanting to reveal themselves.
There are just too many people out there looking for someone - anyone - to blame, and neither logic nor scruples are going to deprive them of it.

Couldn't possibly agree more.

And seriously, what the hell difference does it make who the AG is at this point anyway? Even if all of their pinside usernames were all listed in a post here, today, what good would come from it? What would the reaction be at this point?

Is there even one valid reason that anyone in the AG should come forward now?

At one point I was very curious, and I had even asked people to PM me if they had a good idea who belonged to the AG. Received a fair number of responses, and while I was quickly able to dismiss a lot of the names given, I also quickly realized that even if some of the other names were accurate, it didn't really mean shit.

-15
#7166 4 years ago

AG are asses no matter how you look at it.

Kevin is king douche. No one associated with skit b should get any sort of pass. Kevin deserves to be xxxxxxx in prison. End of story.

#7167 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

They're still in denial, apparently, and not looking at the other factors you mentioned: the paper-thin margins, no evidence of ability to manufacture, and a prototype that fell over if you looked at it wrong.

Add onto the list: The "Snowden's" knowingly had the smoking gun, but chose only to bless their inner-circle with that information, everyone else was still left in that burning building...

Kevin is fully to blame since he is literally human cancer, but at the same time, the way the Snowden's handled it as it pertains to all involved was a joke. Glad they all got out unscathed though.

Clearly, getting through to FOX was a major undertaking to even get a response according to the Snowden's, color me pink I can't believe everyone didn't do it...

Quoted from jonnyo:

they place a lot of the blame on the AG for the ending of the project.

It's not about ending the project...

#7168 4 years ago

Was JJP really going to build game 2?

#7169 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

LOL, no they would not. If you don't let them in your house, I'm sure the police would sit three units on your house for full 24hr surveillance too to make sure that pin doesn't leave your house without them knowing it.

Lmao. That's great.

Thanks Nib.

#7170 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

At this point, I would have gladly taken a kit and put it together myself.

I offered that to Kevin as a possibility.

This was his response, "That's an interesting proposal and while I will certainly consider it, it might not be a great idea right now with the license holders keeping such a close eye on us for the moment.".

#7171 4 years ago

Ag= lime-lime is one.

#7172 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Add onto the list: The "Snowden's" knowingly had the smoking gun, but chose only to bless their inner-circle with that information, everyone else was still left in that burning building...
Kevin is fully to blame since he is literally human cancer, but at the same time, the way the Snowden's handled it as it pertains to all involved was a joke. Glad they all got out unscathed though.
Clearly, getting through to FOX was a major undertaking to even get a response according to the Snowden's, color me pink I can't believe everyone didn't do it...

Smoking gun or not, I already explained why just throwing the information out there could have blown up in their faces. You're mad because at the end of the day you have no machine and no money, and want to someone to pin it on. Had they just put the info out there, as you claim they should have, my guess is you'd be complaining that they didn't do enough homework before going public, and now the project is trashed, and how irresponsible blah blah blah... Any outcome that didn't benefit you personally would be the wrong move of the AG. That's really the bottom line here.

Quoted from Nibbles:

It's not about ending the project...

We agree on that. It's about finding someone to blame for a project that was circling the drain either way.

25
#7173 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

How do YOU know this?

Because this is one of the worst kept secrets going on three years now.

When that artwork appeared at MPE, it was pretty painfully obvious to many of us that it was so amateur that there was no way that the studio or especially Arnold Schwarzenegger's people could have possibly approved it.

Add the ridiculous hanging body using Home Depot parts and jenky spinal columns, it almost became a running joke.

I really people who have been swindled in this mess get their money back, but don't pretend for a second that it appeared like Fox was approving the appearance of this game through development.

#7174 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Was JJP really going to build game 2?

I was at the California Extreme where Jersey Jack called into the Skit-B presentation to announce that they would be building it. Which seems like a pretty solid validation.

It was a video call and he also did a walkthrough of the floor and showed off the WOZs being built.

#7175 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

There was no license.
He stole intellectual property and committed fraud by taking money from customers.
Kevin deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.
Everyone who says I don't understand the law, are people arrested before or after they go to court? Last I check, one can still be arrested before going to court. In court, is when one gets their sentence/punishment.

You really don't understand our legal system do you. Going to court is where 2 sides present their case. Then a judgement is made after both sides have presented their version of events.

11
#7176 4 years ago

Holy crap, the internet lawyers are really out in force today!

#7177 4 years ago

Every Holiday Inn has internet now.....

#7178 4 years ago

Did all "the secret society 'no license!' guys" their money back?

#7179 4 years ago
Quoted from KingDaddy:

Did all "the secret society 'no license!' guys" their money back?

According to them, one of them has not yet.

#7180 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

According to them, one of them has not yet.

The one I suspect wrote the emails, stated that they had got a credit card chargeback.

-4
#7181 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

According to them, one of them has not yet.

Wow - so almost all of them. Kevin bears most of the blame, but these guys "poked a fire" in such a way that all of the burning embers got on other people.

#7182 4 years ago

So was Kevin at Expo?

11
#7183 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I already explained why just throwing the information out there could have blown up in their faces.

An individual (a Snowden) had gotten through to FOX. The FOX rep stated to the Snowden that there was no license agreement for the game to be made by Kevin and Skit-B. Being the unknown type that they are, they couldn't find a way to convey this information to the masses (by way of, I don't know, a wordpress webblog or something 'unknown-like') that stated exactly what they had just found out so other people in the burning building could immediately take steps to either confirm the information and bail, ignore it completely, or simply try to get a refund (which we know wouldn't come from Kevin), be ignored, and then still be able to file a chargeback with PayPal and get their funds back because that information could have been available within the 180 day chargeback period? Nah, give it to someone else to write an article that will come out innnnnn, ehh, it's coming out eventually.

They instead kept all of the truthful information to themselves and only let the inner-Snowden's circle know about the confirmed information. A point could be made that some were trolling a few members in the thread, and that should have been taken seriously as to the actual state of the build; but a trolling/condescending post won't garner anywhere near the attention or action when some anonymous person makes a claim that they talked to FOX directly and they stated that no license was in place - i.e. "check it out for yourself, here is the generic phone/email/whatever, confirm for yourself and decide if you still want to stay in on this project or file a chargeback through PayPal."

Quoted from jonnyo:

You're mad because at the end of the day you have no machine and no money, and want to someone to pin it on.

I do have someone to pin it on, it's Kevin Kulek. That doesn't excuse how selfishly a person/group acted with first-hand knowledge that the entire thing was BS from the minute the FOX rep confirmed there was no license.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Had they just put the info out there, as you claim they should have, my guess is you'd be complaining that they didn't do enough homework before going public

Guesses are great, aren't they? I'd also guess that when a person suggests, directly, that they confirmed a specific piece of information with the IP holder, and recommended that others check-in on it before deciding what to do going forward, that a MAJORITY of the people involved would have followed-up immediately and found the BS as well. After that, the majority would have been able to chargeback with no issue at all. This would leave the only person left to get (justifiably) burned, Kevin Kulek.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Any outcome that didn't benefit you personally would be the wrong move of the AG.

Yes, clearly I'm only thinking of me personally... I'm not thinking of the group of good people who lost a collective sum of around $350k combined (and that's a conservative estimation). The information that the Snowden dug up, and how they actually went about presenting it maybe saved $50k for the lucky folks that have a gracious chargeback period through their CC company (not including all of the OG Snowden's, who thankfully were made whole EZPZ (even that lucky last fellow getting his CC chargeback at the 11th hour)).

Since you're good at guessing, do you want to guess how much of the groups money would have been saved if they anonymously presented the information when they found it, and urged people to check as well?

#7184 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Stealing is not civil...it is CRIMINAL.

Unfortunately, it's not stealing. If you gave Kevin the money willingly ie wrote a check or sent PayPal. It becomes civil because he did not deliver as agreed/contracted. I know it feels the same, but it's not.

#7185 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

An individual (a Snowden) had gotten through to FOX. The FOX rep stated to the Snowden that there was no license agreement for the game to be made by Kevin and Skit-B. Being the unknown type that they are, they couldn't find a way to convey this information to the masses (by way of, I don't know, a wordpress webblog or something 'unknown-like') that stated exactly what they had just found out so other people in the burning building could immediately take steps to either confirm the information and bail, ignore it completely, or simply try to get a refund (which we know wouldn't come from Kevin), be ignored, and then still be able to file a chargeback with PayPal and get their funds back because that information could have been available within the 180 day chargeback period? Nah, give it to someone else to write an article that will come out innnnnn, ehh, it's coming out eventually.
They instead kept all of the truthful information to themselves and only let the inner-Snowden's circle know about the confirmed information. A point could be made that some were trolling a few members in the thread, and that should have been taken seriously as to the actual state of the build; but a trolling/condescending post won't garner anywhere near the attention or action when some anonymous person makes a claim that they talked to FOX directly and they stated that no license was in place - i.e. "check it out for yourself, here is the generic phone/email/whatever, confirm for yourself and decide if you still want to stay in on this project or file a chargeback through PayPal."

I do have someone to pin it on, it's Kevin Kulek. That doesn't excuse how selfishly a person/group acted with first-hand knowledge that the entire thing was BS from the minute the FOX rep confirmed there was no license.

Guesses are great, aren't they? I'd also guess that when a person suggests, directly, that they confirmed a specific piece of information with the IP holder, and recommended that others check-in on it before deciding what to do going forward, that a MAJORITY of the people involved would have followed-up immediately and found the BS as well. After that, the majority would have been able to chargeback with no issue at all. This would leave the only person left to get (justifiably) burned, Kevin Kulek.

Yes, clearly I'm only thinking of me personally... I'm not thinking of the group of good people who lost a collective sum of around $350k combined (and that's a conservative estimation). The information that the Snowden dug up, and how they actually went about presenting it maybe saved $50k for the lucky folks that have a gracious chargeback period through their CC company (not including all of the OG Snowden's, who thankfully were made whole EZPZ (even that lucky last fellow getting his CC chargeback at the 11th hour)).
Since you're good at guessing, do you want to guess how much of the groups money would have been saved if they anonymously presented the information when they found it, and urged people to check as well?

By far the most well written commentary on the whole issue of the AG.

#7186 4 years ago

Anyone could of contacted fox and asked about the license.

#7187 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

You really don't understand our legal system do you. Going to court is where 2 sides present their case. Then a judgement is made after both sides have presented their version of events.

You can still be arrested before going to court.

#7188 4 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Unfortunately, it's not stealing. If you gave Kevin the money willingly ie wrote a check or sent PayPal. It becomes civil because he did not deliver as agreed/contracted. I know it feels the same, but it's not.

Using Predator is stealing.

Pre-selling Predator without a license is fraud through deception...which is stealing.

It is civil when you bring a lawsuit against him for your money back. You still have the right to press charges.

#7189 4 years ago

Trekkie fight!

oyes!.jpg
#7190 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, as the story goes, the reason all the websites were scrubbed was because of a Cease & Desist, so there was some awareness by Fox. But we don't know if Kevin's game of keeping things on the down low after that would have succeeded, especially with a 2 year+ production build.

It would not have succeded. Lets pretend we live in a world where Fox does not care in the slightest what someone does with their IP....and the actors. How much money would someone need to build 250. There is a reason not all creative people run businesses.

19
#7191 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

Yes and the same rules apply. Makes me think twice about buy a JJP machine.

Getting OT, but also not, so, humor me and tell me where this fits in to your worldview:

oh hai

This is just one of the times they've been publicly caught. At trade shows, they'll whine about us to anyone who will listen. And, as the recent adweek article alluded to, they have an amazingly hefty interest in the elaut lawsuit. I wonder why that is.

I used to bash stern a lot. I stopped out of respect for a friend. But if you think those guys are angels, you'd be mighty surprised.

And I will also say I can understand Ben's bashing of skit-b. I was one of the vocal ones regarding Vonnie D when that whole thing was winding down for the same reason of not wanting pinball money to vaporize. Pretty sure we all know where that ended up despite the accusations being slung at me from Mr. Upthecreek.

My personal opinion is that everyone is in general better off just snacking on popcorn regarding the drama and just buy games you actually LIKE.

58
#7192 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

An individual (a Snowden) had gotten through to FOX. The FOX rep stated to the Snowden that there was no license agreement for the game to be made by Kevin and Skit-B. Being the unknown type that they are, they couldn't find a way to convey this information to the masses (by way of, I don't know, a wordpress webblog or something 'unknown-like') that stated exactly what they had just found out so other people in the burning building could immediately take steps to either confirm the information and bail, ignore it completely, or simply try to get a refund (which we know wouldn't come from Kevin), be ignored, and then still be able to file a chargeback with PayPal and get their funds back because that information could have been available within the 180 day chargeback period? Nah, give it to someone else to write an article that will come out innnnnn, ehh, it's coming out eventually.
They instead kept all of the truthful information to themselves and only let the inner-Snowden's circle know about the confirmed information. A point could be made that some were trolling a few members in the thread, and that should have been taken seriously as to the actual state of the build; but a trolling/condescending post won't garner anywhere near the attention or action when some anonymous person makes a claim that they talked to FOX directly and they stated that no license was in place - i.e. "check it out for yourself, here is the generic phone/email/whatever, confirm for yourself and decide if you still want to stay in on this project or file a chargeback through PayPal."

I've already addressed this twice now so I'm not going to re-word it yet again for someone who just refuses to get it.

So, the cliff notes version:

1) Nobody owes you anything. Get over it. This sense of entitlement from some of you is just mind boggling.

2) Of course they took care of their friends first. This is real life, man. Welcome to real life. That's what anyone would do.

3) You can talk about how risk-free going public with the info is when you are in their shoes and you go public right away. Have you ever been a whistle-blower? I have. Know what the company tried to do? Fire me. Here's the big secret: nobody wants to hear bad news, regardless of the truth. Go back before this stuff came to light and look at all the cheerleaders blindly defending this project. And now that the bad news is out, look at the finger-pointing going on.

Yes, people would have calmly, rationally verified the AG's finding themselves. Right. Definitely. 100%.

4) Perhaps the most important part: Nothing was stopping you from doing your own research. Don't blame people who did. Blame yourself. It was YOUR MONEY.

I evaluated the situation and got out a year ago. It was obvious they had no staff, no factory, no build-plan, and a game that couldn't make it through even one show. Pic after pic of Kevin at his computer AT A SHOW trying to get it running again. How amateur-hour can you get? And why are they going to shows if they're already sold out? And why are they no longer on pinside? Why is all the Predator stuff gone? Why'd they take down the videos? Everyone defending the lack of communication because they're "busy building our games!!" So why are they going to shows to promote an already sold-out game instead of building them? It didn't add up, and now they wanted 2750 of my money. HELLOOOO?!

Sorry, but to be blunt, and I do hope you get your money, the writing was on the wall a loooooonnnnngggg time ago. If you were expecting some anonymous pinball players to ride in guns blazing and protect you, you were expecting to much and extremely mistaken. The how, when, why, etc. of their actions are all immaterial. It was never their job to save you.

12
#7193 4 years ago

In other pinball news..... jonnyo gets 30+ thumbs up.

11
#7194 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

In other pinball news..... jonnyo gets 30+ thumbs up.

Agreed. Robin needs to add a mic drop emoji so we can add it to the end of jonnyo's post, then just lock the thread.

#7195 4 years ago

Someone above mentioned the Predator spine and skulls. Has anybody heard anything from Matt at Back Alley about this project? I would hope Pinball News contacted him to get his side of the story, especially since Matt had already made the mods and molded figures for the game.

#7196 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Napster.
The music industry went after users for their intellectual property.

The napster situation is entirely different. The downloaders effectively were 'kevin' in this situation as they were the ones making unauthorized copies. Here you have people buying an unauthorized game- not 250 people each violating the copyrights.

Worst case is fox would win a ruling that ordered all the games destroyed... But they wouldn't come knocking on doors to enforce it. It's not worth anyone's time. And police would not go running around trying to enforce that order. Fox would never bother spending money running everyone down. They'd send nasty letters making demands and that would be the end of it unless you started trying to make a big splash with them.

No one goes door to door collecting all the fake Louis v. Handbags when cbp busts yet another counterfiter

#7197 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

1) Nobody owes you anything. Get over it. This sense of entitlement from some of you is just mind boggling.

Entitlement is a bit of a generalization, but sure. Kevin does owe me $4750, so someone does 'technically' owe me something. In terms of bringing information up that is pertinent to the situation, I guess I'm old fashioned in thinking that you don't just look out for yourself, especially when you're in a unique position to make a difference in the outcome of a situation for a group consisting of ~150 good people.

Quoted from jonnyo:

2) Of course they took care of their friends first. This is real life, man. Welcome to real life. That's what anyone would do.

We're not friends here? We all love pinball, I'd consider anyone else here to be my friend, even you. It just amazes me that the selective group were the only ones to be privy to the info before passing it off, to a pinball blogger, that eventually did a great job with the story. It just came way too late when you consider the small, but very critical, information that was investigated prior and which could have helped a large number of other people immediately.

Quoted from jonnyo:

3) You can talk about how risk-free going public with the info is when you are in their shoes and you go public right away. Have you ever been a whistle-blower? I have. Know what the company tried to do? Fire me.

Hopefully that means you didn't actually get fired; but let's be honest, real life vs internet whistleblowing is inherently different. Literally, if you were the whistleblower, it'd be pretty easy to find you just from your post on Pinside - i.e. a 2min whois search and I could call you right now, photoshop a dinosaur on a street-view picture of your house, or show up at your door (obviously won't do any of this), but it is too easy to find. Try that same technique with the Predator wordpress blog, it's damn near impossible to find out who owns it or who posted what.

All I am saying, even though your reply implies that I need someone to basically wipe my own ass, if someone is smart enough to setup a wordpress site to remain anonymous, they can use that same technique to share the information that they know through the same avenue, immediately. They instead, just took care of themselves initially (which I completely agree with and understand), but then handed it off; that time from when they pulled out vs when the actual article was released could have helped a majority of the people invested, conservatively guessing, the delay likely caused 65% of the people with money on the line to be pulled out of the chargeback period. But it's f#(k everyone else, emirite? Why watch out for anyone else other than yourself?... Bros before Hoes.

Quoted from jonnyo:

Don't blame people who did. Blame yourself.

Technically, I'm also blaming the people who 'didn't' for a different issue, all the while, still blaming myself and Kevin.

Quoted from jonnyo:

If you were expecting some anonymous pinball players to ride in guns blazing and protect you, you were expecting to much and extremely mistaken. The how, when, why, etc. of their actions are all immaterial. It was never their job to save you.

It's not their job, but for the "common good" seems fitting. I find it sad that people continually defer to a 'me' vs 'us', as opposed to watching out for others, whether it be a community or a small pinball group. But since we're making large generalizations, it's pretty much like watching your neighbors car getting broken into, but you don't call the cops, because "it was never your job to watch out for them, they should have been up all night, every night, keepin an eye on his shieet... Fug'em"

The common good is much more important than the me.
FMR.jpg

#7198 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Worst case is fox would win a ruling that ordered all the games destroyed... But they wouldn't come knocking on doors to enforce it. It's not worth anyone's time. And police would not go running around trying to enforce that order. Fox would never bother spending money running everyone down. They'd send nasty letters making demands and that would be the end of it unless you started trying to make a big splash with them.

If they went after Kevin and Kevin lost, the ruling would normally be in the form of a lump of money. That money would the cost of the IP to Kevin and stopping there because that basically is his IP fee - done. It is basically paying Fox to make it right. The problem with this is the fee is going to cost more per unit since there is no negotiating. To make more he would need to secure the license for those outside the issue.

#7199 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

There is a reason not all creative people run businesses.

there is a reason that very few creative people run businesses... because they can't get out of their "creative world" and deal with the other 95% of the "stuff" you gotta do (like, oh, "production", for example)...

edit: not saying that SOME creative people can't run a business, but the ones who survive doing it recognize that they have shortcomings in certain areas and actually hire people who then take care of those areas...

ime, "creative people" are best off when they are put in a playpen and allowed to "create", but are supervised by someone who is holding a very tight leash on project scope...

#7200 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

there is a reason that very few creative people run businesses... because they can't get out of their "creative world" and deal with the other 95% of the "stuff" you gotta do (like, oh, "production", for example)...

Walt Disney was never the CEO of his own company.

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