(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,272 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Roostking
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,540 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20181108-174321 (resized).png
Fife Appeal Sept 24 2018.pdf (PDF preview)
cat ooo 2.gif
7332539.attach (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18272 posts in this topic. You are on page 143 of 366.
-1
#7101 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

You're not changing my twisted mind.

you agree it's twisted, 'enuff said....lol

#7102 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

you agree it's twisted, 'enuff said..lol

Everyone here is twisted in one way or another.

-1
#7103 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Everyone here is twisted in one way or another.

some more than other's ...

#7104 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

they saved everyone here as best they could

All the comedy I need for one night...

#7105 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Read above, what don't you understand? They weren't waiting on facts, they had facts from Fox. Fox told them there was no license so they helped Fox protect their license and stayed silent because the Fox lawyer asked them to. At that point they should have immediately broke news to us. Add to that the smugness and taunting really tells me all I need to know about it.
Are you out money on Predator?

Not sure I get what at all would be different had AG revealed what they knew earlier. It would have just caused the exact same reaction that ultimately happened, just a little bit sooner. A rush on kevin then or now wasn't going to suddenly make refunds happen and everyone get their money back. The warning issues were there so very long before the AG thing, so perhaps that just made it be 'real' in peoples minds? There's not one thing in the big pinball news story that hadn't been talked about for months in this same thread so it was basically known what was going on, just a certain level of denial or faith that was hard to let go of until the AG proved beyond any amount of faith what was up was all that truly changed post story. Blame the robber, not the camera that proved him guilty.

#7106 4 years ago
Quoted from gamestencils:

Not sure I get what at all would be different had AG revealed what they knew earlier. It would have just caused the exact same reaction that ultimately happened, just a little bit sooner. A rush on kevin then or now wasn't going to suddenly make refunds happen and everyone get their money back. The warning issues were there so very long before the AG thing, so perhaps that just made it be 'real' in peoples minds? There's not one thing in the big pinball news story that hadn't been talked about for months in this same thread so it was basically known what was going on, just a certain level of denial or faith that was hard to let go of until the AG proved beyond any amount of faith what was up was all that truly changed post story. Blame the robber, not the camera that proved him guilty.

The theory is more people would have been able to collect charge backs from their credit card companies or possibly even hit Pay Pal's 180 day window to get their money back.

#7107 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

The theory is more people would have been able to collect charge backs from their credit card companies or possibly even hit Pay Pal's 180 day window to get their money back.

There is another view to be taken on the timing of their announcement though. Based on everything that's been said to date this machine was never going to make it to production. If that is a true statement and the AG never said anything at all then the folks that were able to successfully able to issue chargebacks may have run out of time as well, so they may have in fact saved that group of people. No matter when the facts were discovered/announced there would still be a pool of people that would be past their 180 day limits. I'm happy for those that have been able to recoup their money and I hope something gets worked out for everyone else that's caught up in this.

#7108 4 years ago

Nevermind, I didn't read the previous post chain

22
#7111 4 years ago

Nobody would have listened, and wire possibly 'the group' would have been ridiculed. The truth isn't the most popular view on pinside.

#7112 4 years ago
Quoted from Dalbok:

There is another view to be taken on the timing of their announcement though. Based on everything that's been said to date this machine was never going to make it to production. If that is a true statement and the AG never said anything at all then the folks that were able to successfully able to issue chargebacks may have run out of time as well, so they may have in fact saved that group of people. No matter when the facts were discovered/announced there would still be a pool of people that would be past their 180 day limits. I'm happy for those that have been able to recoup their money and I hope something gets worked out for everyone else that's caught up in this.

People dont care about others... Only their situation. Logic doesnt apply...

22
#7113 4 years ago

The AG people don't matter.

At the end of the day, they actually did everyone who had ordered a Predator a huge favor. Not from the sense of being out money (I hope everyone gets a refund), but in the sense of owning stolen merchandise.

Fox would have eventually found out about the game. Their lawsuit would start with Kevin, but not end with him. The next targets would be the 250 Predator owners. Fox would come after you as well.

Stealing is stealing. There's no way to defend Kevin, so please stop going after the AG. At the end of the day, they saved you from the Fox legal team. Fox would not only want the machine, but they would certainly want damages, and don't forget the legal costs you would incur.

The law is very clear. Stolen property is stolen property. It doesn't matter if you obtain it legally.

There's only one person in this whole fiasco who doesn't care about the 250 people…Kevin. He lied, and lied, and lied, and lied, and lied. He knew what he was doing. No adult can claim ignorance in this situation.

Quite frankly, I wish I was part of this community several years ago. The biggest red flag was when Kevin claimed to be a nonprofit. My background is in accounting/finance. That was the biggest sign that he was running a scam on everyone.

-1
#7114 4 years ago

Honestly, not to defend Kevin but it might be that he was really just very stupid.

If he was running a scam, he did a terrible job. Why still be in this country if you have a million or so dollars collected?

Why order parts for any games at all, let alone boxes of otherwise useless skulls?

Take the money and run...

Maybe he was even stupid about being stupid... I am not sure what that means but it seems to sum of the spirit of his disorganized actions and broken promises.

#7115 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Fox would have eventually found out about the game.

They would have never found out.

Predator has been on the web for years, Kevin hit up all the major pinball shows, gave speeches, had websites up, posted videos on Youtube - Fox never knew.

Even if Fox found out years from now, there is no practical way for them to go after the owners.

- "Hello, this is Fox, we have information you own a unlicensed pinball machine from Scat-B !".

"I'm sorry, it burned up years ago. Can you believe those things were not UL listed???"

- "Ummmm......OK, thanks for your time".

#7116 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Predator has been on the web for years, Kevin hit up all the major pinball shows, gave speeches, had websites up, posted videos on Youtube - Fox never knew.

Well, as the story goes, the reason all the websites were scrubbed was because of a Cease & Desist, so there was some awareness by Fox. But we don't know if Kevin's game of keeping things on the down low after that would have succeeded, especially with a 2 year+ production build.

-7
#7117 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

They would have never found out.
Predator has been on the web for years, Kevin hit up all the major pinball shows, gave speeches, had websites up, posted videos on Youtube - Fox never knew.
Even if Fox found out years from now, there is no practical way for them to go after the owners.
- "Hello, this is Fox, we have information you own a unlicensed pinball machine from Scat-B !".
"I'm sorry, it burned up years ago. Can you believe those things were not UL listed???"
- "Ummmm......OK, thanks for your time".

That's not how it works. They would show up at your door with police.

#7118 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

The AG people don't matter.
At the end of the day, they actually did everyone who had ordered a Predator a huge favor. Not from the sense of being out money (I hope everyone gets a refund), but in the sense of owning stolen merchandise.
Fox would have eventually found out about the game. Their lawsuit would start with Kevin, but not end with him. The next targets would be the 250 Predator owners. Fox would come after you as well.
Stealing is stealing. There's no way to defend Kevin, so please stop going after the AG. At the end of the day, they saved you from the Fox legal team. Fox would not only want the machine, but they would certainly want damages, and don't forget the legal costs you would incur.
The law is very clear. Stolen property is stolen property. It doesn't matter if you obtain it legally.
There's only one person in this whole fiasco who doesn't care about the 250 people…Kevin. He lied, and lied, and lied, and lied, and lied. He knew what he was doing. No adult can claim ignorance in this situation.
Quite frankly, I wish I was part of this community several years ago. The biggest red flag was when Kevin claimed to be a nonprofit. My background is in accounting/finance. That was the biggest sign that he was running a scam on everyone.

My understanding is copyright infringement is copyright infringement. It is similar to theft but is legally different from theft. I'm not sure being in possession of material that is a copyright infringement would be treated the same legally as being in possession of stolen property...I actually think it would be treated substantially different.

Notation: I am not an IP attorney. I know no more than a layman on this point.

#7119 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They would show up at your door with police.

LOL, no they would not. If you don't let them in your house, I'm sure the police would sit three units on your house for full 24hr surveillance too to make sure that pin doesn't leave your house without them knowing it.

12
#7120 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Read above, what don't you understand? They weren't waiting on facts, they had facts from Fox. Fox told them there was no license so they helped Fox protect their license and stayed silent because the Fox lawyer asked them to. At that point they should have immediately broke news to us. Add to that the smugness and taunting really tells me all I need to know about it.
Are you out money on Predator?

The only thing I agree with you on is the smugness.

Had I been in their shoes I probably would have done exactly the same and gone through some sort of 3rd party to break it like they did with PBN. The reason is simple: if I'm wrong, for ANY reason (technicality, license info lost in giant multi-national company, lawyer just being a d***, etc) then now I potentially get sued for killing the project.

Here's the kicker: even if I'm *right* I can still get sued. That happens all the time to shut people up.

Now, why am I going to take on that risk for YOU? It's great you like pinball, but I'm not going to risk getting sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars because we have that in common, sorry. I'm not going to risk being the most hated guy on Pinside ever because I just killed a project run by this hard-working 'merican in ol' downtrodden Michigan just trying to share his love of pinball. They'll be writing country songs for him, and gangster rap for me. F that.

The signs of license trouble have been there for a long, long time. They acted on that evidence, you didn't.

-5
#7121 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

LOL, no they would not. If you don't let them in your house, I'm sure the police would sit three units on your house for full 24hr surveillance too to make sure that pin doesn't leave your house without them knowing it.

Yes they would. PayPal, credit card companies and bank would be court ordered to hand over all the information. The only thing not traceable is cash. The other 3 leave a trail. It would not be hard for Fox to find out who the owners of the machine are.

Think back 15 years ago to Napster. Napster had a court order to hand over the information. Here, it is even easier, because PayPal, credit cards and bank have zero reason to delete any information.

They will show up to your door with a warrant. It happened to people who downloaded songs. Don't think it can't happen to you.

#7122 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

The only thing I agree with you on is the smugness.
Had I been in their shoes I probably would have done exactly the same and gone through some sort of 3rd party to break it like they did with PBN. The reason is simple: if I'm wrong, for ANY reason (technicality, license info lost in giant multi-national company, lawyer just being a d***, etc) then now I potentially get sued for killing the project.
Here's the kicker: even if I'm *right* I can still get sued. That happens all the time to shut people up.
Now, why am I going to take on that risk for YOU? It's great you like pinball, but I'm not going to risk getting sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars because we have that in common, sorry. I'm not going to risk being the most hated guy on Pinside ever because I just killed a project run by this hard-working 'merican in ol' downtrodden Michigan just trying to share his love of pinball. They'll be writing country songs for him, and gangster rap for me. F that.
The signs of license trouble have been there for a long, long time. They acted on that evidence, you didn't.

#7123 4 years ago

Quoted from jonnyo:

The only thing I agree with you on is the smugness.
Had I been in their shoes I probably would have done exactly the same and gone through some sort of 3rd party to break it like they did with PBN. The reason is simple: if I'm wrong, for ANY reason (technicality, license info lost in giant multi-national company, lawyer just being a d***, etc) then now I potentially get sued for killing the project.
Here's the kicker: even if I'm *right* I can still get sued. That happens all the time to shut people up.
Now, why am I going to take on that risk for YOU? It's great you like pinball, but I'm not going to risk getting sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars because we have that in common, sorry. I'm not going to risk being the most hated guy on Pinside ever because I just killed a project run by this hard-working 'merican in ol' downtrodden Michigan just trying to share his love of pinball. They'll be writing country songs for him, and gangster rap for me. F that.
The signs of license trouble have been there for a long, long time. They acted on that evidence, you didn't.

And I take exception with "downtrodden" Michigan. We are not in need of sympathy.

#7124 4 years ago

^ We have some of the finest manufacturers and engineers the world has ever known. I'm not mad at you though.

#7125 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

That's not how it works. They would show up at your door with police.

Yea right! No due process, no suphoena.........ect......
I have spoken to law enforcement about this case and that is NOT how it works.

10
#7126 4 years ago

Why are guys even arguing about this? Kevin lied about having the licence and was essentially gambling/risking your money by doing so.

END OF F'CKN STORY.

#7127 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

END OF F'CKN STORY.

Story ain't over until he refunds the money like he said he was going to do, or Nasty Nate is turning him into a human whistle when a strong wind blows through the yard...

#7129 4 years ago

The police can have my knock off merchandise when they pry it from my cold, dead hands. Ive seen them all over my community collecting unlicensed merchandise. I'm just waiting for that knock on my door. It could get ugly.

13
#7130 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

They would show up at your door with police.

LOL - that is all the police have time for, driving around town breaking down doors to recover bootleg iPods, fake hologram "UL listed" Christmas Lights, fake PS3s and of course, my Spader-Man doll......

spader man.jpg
#7131 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

The police can have my knock off merchandise when they pry it from my cold, dead hands. Ive seen them all over my community collecting unlicensed merchandise. I'm just waiting for that knock on my door. It could get ugly.

Willing to die over knock off goods is... interesting. Why not take a stand on something that matters?

Civil Assest Forfeiture, cops killing 100 or so civillians in the month of March alone etc...

Goods that rip off other people's IP is seriously the flag you are going to plant on a hill and die for?

#7132 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Willing to die over knock off goods is... interesting. Why not take a stand on something that matters?
Civil Assest Forfeiture, cops killing 100 or so civillians in the month of March alone etc...
THAT is seriously the flag you are going to plant on a hill and die on?

It was a joke. I've never seen police in my neighborhood collecting unlicensed merchandise. And I don't ever expect them to either. I will add a smiley emoticon to my original post.

#7133 4 years ago

I remember when the SWAT team took down Mcdowell's. Sad day.

#7134 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

It was a joke. I've never seen police in my neighborhood collecting unlicensed merchandise. And I don't ever expect them to either. I will add a smiley emoticon to my original post.

Fair enough

I honestly pictured a "real 'murican" bunkered down with grenades strapped to his chest and green tipped ammo strewn about ready to die for his wife's guccini watch.

That things have got that bad that does not seem completely implausable is kind of sad.

#7135 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

LOL - that is all the police have time for, driving around town breaking down doors to recover bootleg iPods, fake hologram "UL listed" Christmas Lights, fake PS3s and of course, my Spader-Man doll......

spader man.jpg

Napster.

The music industry went after users for their intellectual property.

#7136 4 years ago

I just got back from the comic shop and got the promotional giveaway as seen below... It looks like the licensing and making money off the Predator name is going strong. I know Dark Horse has used them for years, but didn't realize they would go into Rivendale!

Brad

archie_vs_predator.png

#7137 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Napster.
The music industry went after users for their intellectual property.

The industry went after people who were knowingly distributing their IP.

-

If you bought a Predator, believing that it was a licensed product, Fox is not going to come to your house and take it from you.

Fox has known about Scat-B for over a year, and they have not busted down Keven's door, nor did they show up at any Expo and take the game.

LOL

#7138 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The industry went after people who were knowingly distributing their IP.
-
If you bought a Predator, believing that it was a licensed product, Fox is not going to come to your house and take it from you.
Fox has known about Scat-B for over a year, and they have not busted down Keven's door, nor did they show up at any Expo and take the game.
LOL

Which government agency is responsible for intellectual property theft?

The FBI.

I wish people would stop acting like it's no big deal.

#7139 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Which government agency is responsible for intellectual property theft?
The FBI.
I wish people would stop acting like it's no big deal.

Call the FBI right now and tell them about Predator pinball.

See if they think it is a big deal.

Star Ship Bally.jpg
#7140 4 years ago

HEY!!
...it's not from Star Trek because it has THIS!

388954-i.jpg
#7141 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Call the FBI right now and tell them about Predator pinball.
See if they think it is a big deal.

Star Ship Bally.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

I'm not the license holder.

I'm sure Fox has contacted them.

I just don't understand how anyone can defend Kevin.

#7142 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I just don't understand how anyone can defend Kevin.

Twist peoples words much?!

#7143 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I'm sure Fox has contacted them.

What makes you so sure about that?

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I just don't understand how anyone can defend Kevin.

The only one defending Kevin is you, with your ignorant statements.

The rest of us are just trying to educate you how the legal system works in this country.

#7144 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

HEY!!
...it's not from "insert name here" because it has THIS!

One of my favorite spins of all-time:

11
#7145 4 years ago

Change your silly New Jersey Devils too, because I'm sure you don't have permission from them or the NHL to be using it.

Stop violating their IP!

#7146 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, as the story goes, the reason all the websites were scrubbed was because of a Cease & Desist, so there was some awareness by Fox. But we don't know if Kevin's game of keeping things on the down low after that would have succeeded, especially with a 2 year+ production build.

And this gets back to the main discrepancy between the reporting of PBN and the claims of the AG. Martin claimed that the C&D was given when the site was scrubbed, but didn't go into great detail about that. The AG claimed that the C&D came after they contacted Fox. The first event happened in Oct 2013, the second happened Dec 2014. It sure would be nice if the PBN follow up article addressed this, if it gets written. It won't help anyone get refunds, but it would really help to resolve a final, clear narrative of how everything went down.

The following isn't addressing your post, Frolic, just the thread in general.

Regardless of whether he could have gotten away with it (assuming he could get them all built), the problem is that he lied to his customers, from the beginning. Put moralism about stealing IP aside, there is considerably far more risk involved with a project when the license isn't in place. If he could get a number of customers to sign onto that risk, no problem. They would know the full risks involved. But he didn't do that, he misrepresented, to be charitable, from the beginning, and he outright lied after he got the full clarity of the C&D, whether that was a year ago or 4-5 months ago.

I really really wish people would quit defending him because their definition of a scam means he had to take the money and leave the country. No one except straw men are making the argument that he was *that* kind of conman. He was a liar who took a HUGE amount of money under false pretenses, and he had good intentions. I have known lots of good intentioned liars in my life. Good intentions don't excuse what he did. He gambled while telling his customers their money was 100% safe, and lost.

I will never understand people who are pissed that the AG blew this up by investigating Kevin's claims (I totally understand being pissed about HOW they did it, as they have been pretty insufferable). If Keven had been upfront with people in the first place, there would have been no AG investigating them. Want proof? Look at pinnivating's Matrix kits. Everyone who bought one knew what they were getting into, and bye and large everyone in the community was supportive. Why? Because they weren't lying about it, and some knowing, non-risk-averse people got some cool games out of it. The blame for people losing money and not getting their games lies solely with Kevin, because he is the one who lied and put everyone's money at risk.

-4
#7147 4 years ago

...are you one of the AG?

#7148 4 years ago

You are confused. People are mad at kevin. Also mad at AG. One does not negate the other.

#7149 4 years ago

I am not. I think they've been pretty insufferable, and I don't buy their moral crusader bullshit either, especially given what I have read about how they were actively taunting Whysnow. I like everyone else have my suspicions about who it may be, but they are just suspicions.

I personally wish they would just come out and own up to it. I get not wanting to be the ones known for "killing the project" and that's why I give them slack for letting PBN vet the story and post it on their timeline, but the continued secrecy is just piss-ant cowardice. Not everyone is gonna like what they did, but their original excuse doesn't hold. Kevin admitted he couldn't build the machines anyway, and that the license "wasn't what he thought it was". So they were right. If you know you were right, just own it.

#7150 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

You are confused. People are mad at kevin. Also mad at AG. One does not negate the other.

I know they don't negate one another. I just don't buy being upset because they investigated his claims and found out he was lying. I totally get being pissed at how they went about it. I also get that everyone is pissed at Kevin.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 279.95
$ 3.00
Playfield - Decals
Doc's Pinball Shop
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 218.00
$ 26.95
$ 19.00
Boards
Tilted Pinball
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 125.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Little Shop Of Games
$ 279.95
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 44.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinBoss Mods
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Nitro Pinball Shop
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 8.95
$ 5,599.00
Pinball Machine
Operation Pinball
$ 46.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 25.00
There are 18272 posts in this topic. You are on page 143 of 366.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside