(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#7001 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All AG did was fire a bullet into the skull of an already dying dog.

After watching it lay there suffering for three months?

10
#7002 4 years ago
Quoted from angus:

If you have to go in front of a judge (or a cop or the fbi) for a lawsuit proof is important. Those without any money on Predator could care less about going in front of a judge, so having some real proof isn't important. I think Kcpinballfan cares about actually proving to someone else as opposed to just assuming it is the case. The lawyers name at Fox is about the best we have. Posts on the internet don't add up to much.

I'll repeat myself from earlier.

Any lawsuit is against Kevin. In discovery, you require Kevin to provide proof of a Predator license. He can't. You win.

32
#7003 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

After watching it lay there suffering for three months?

Project has been suffering since 2013, when they started bleeding team members, it barely worked at Expo even with a proven system (PROC) and their website went dark.

And yes, I'm bitter. I'd rather have your money in my pocket in exchange for a game than Kevin doing god knows what with whatever's left.

#7004 4 years ago

*sigh* Let's say SkitB DID have a license and the AG have no/false proof of any wrongdoings... it makes exactly ZERO difference at all now. Kevin owes everyone their money back because the project is over/dead/done regardless of the AG intentions or concrete proof.

IMO The how and why of it all became irrelevant the minute SkitB stopped issuing refunds. That started way before the AG did anything for the record.

18
#7005 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

... the AG only cared about themselves in order to insure they received their money back, to make them heroes is a joke.

I don't see anyone calling them heroes, I see them as normal people who finally got tired of seeing SkitB get off scot-free without consequence. Really,the difference between the AG and myself, is that they cared enough to dig into this mess and expose it. I would never bother to go so far, frankly out of pure laziness.

IMO this SkitB disaster was inevitable ever since I met them at Expo 2013. I personally thought Kevin and his 'entourage' was a strange group of highly ignorant and mouthy people who were borderline liars... I just kept my mouth shut for 1.5 years because no one wanted to hear about it, it wasn't my place to judge because I wasn't "in" on Predator, and I had no proof but my own gut feeling. ie - I didn't feel welcome to share my thoughts here on the matter.

#7006 4 years ago

Hopefully all that invested will get their money back. Predator is a great theme, and one day may be an awesome pin (by someone other than SkitB). Alien really has my curiosity, but I will wait till I see a game for sale - and people own it - before I pull the trigger. I felt like I was going out on a limb with The Hobbit preorder, but JJP seems very legit after cranking out over 2500 WOZ's - so I don't feel like I am taking on too much risk on a pre order on a JJP pin.

#7007 4 years ago
Quoted from PaulLang76:

It was clearly malice. If not, why stop at saving Fox's IP?

Because it was never sbout protecting fox mr new account... But that was the way to expose the lies

#7008 4 years ago

I would think the podcasts Kevin did....stating he did have licenses, would be admissible as evidence....I'm surprised he still has a fb page. A few people have made comments....and the comments are still on there

#7009 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Project has been suffering since 2013, when they started bleeding team members, it barely worked at Expo even with a proven system (PROC) and their website went dark.
And yes, I'm bitter. I'd rather have your money in my pocket in exchange for a game than Kevin doing god knows what with whatever's left.

Didn't AMH sell out?

#7011 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Didn't AMH sell out?

I think he meant for #2...

#7012 4 years ago
Quoted from PaulLang76:

It was clearly malice. If not, why stop at saving Fox's IP? If they were so concerned about licensing shouldn't they be contacting Disney, AC/DC, Metallica, etc. about all the pop bumper caps, toppers, speaker grills, etc. that use their emblems and art and even advertise them as products for those IPs.
So c'mon AG, at least be fair when you decide to administer justice on everyone's behalf. Oh wait, that's right, you probably have all of these items already installed in your machines. Mmmm, Hypocrisy...
And for those that believe that all the items I listed above are some how safe. Let us not forget the Firefly hat incident:
http://www.techhive.com/article/2044685/i-almost-got-sued-for-knitting-a-firefly-hat-the-legal-risks-of-pop-culture-fan-art.html

Welcome to Pin....Hey, first post? Interesting.

#7013 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The game sucked.
It barely worked at shows.
They had no path to manufacturing.
They would have run out of money if they tried.
All AG did was fire a bullet into the skull of an already dying dog.

Don't pull punches Ben just come right out and tell us how you feel.

#7014 4 years ago

AMH not *technically* sold out yet.

Chuck held a few spots so they could be sold in person at MGC. Stop by the booth for more info.

Plus final game #150 being auction at expo for charity (delivery date: Feb-March 2016)

I assure you we have the license for the theme I personally created.

#7015 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I assure you we have the license for the theme I personally created.

Sorry...I have to see documentation...

#7016 4 years ago

Documentation... it's a funny thing. I hate legal stuff. While it's very exciting to make a pinball machine, it's always rewarding when one is completed. You can be assured that we are doing everything we can to make sure your game has no surprises coming out of the box!

More information is coming swiftly, once I figure out the WiFi password in this Mexican hotel...

#7017 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Project has been suffering since 2013, when they started bleeding team members, it barely worked at Expo even with a proven system (PROC) and their website went dark.
And yes, I'm bitter. I'd rather have your money in my pocket in exchange for a game than Kevin doing god knows what with whatever's left.

I understand that it had to be rough watching Skit-B sell out with a waiting list while non-licensed AHM limped along for a little bit trying to sell 100 units despite people claiming they wanted original unlicensed games. And surely it hurt that it didnt get much recognition even when it was the first boutique game made and delivered. It had to feel good that interest in AMH rose greatly after Predator was a dead project and (to my understanding) AMH has now sold out. And I honestly have no clue what, if any, kind of relationship/communication/drama there was between Skit-B and Benheck/AMH.

But the constant bashing and blatant piling-on of how awful the Predator game was by you since the project failed has rubbed me the wrong way as completely unprofessional. It reeks of a bitter rival gloating that the competition failed and rubbing it in the faces of buyers to prove that they backed the wrong machine. After months of worry, heartache, money loss, and anger, it just seems the last thing we need is a revered member of the pinball community and talented pinball designer pointing at us and calling us stupid for ever wanting a

If I did have the money (which of course I do not) I wouldnt be sending it to your pockets now. I'm not saying that AMH is bad, by any means, just that your business etiquette has jaded me in regards to it. Just my honest opinion, which of course means nothing, and I do respect you and what you have accomplished. Congratulations on getting it produced, delivered, and having everything lined up to continue your business for more games to come.

#7018 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

If I did have the money (which of course I do not) I wouldnt be sending it to your pockets now.

I would be.
Ben may well be bitter because I guess a number of Predatored peopled would have jumped on AMH. Now it's too late.

(but yeah, Predator bashing is not really needed here... talking about the Pin, not the "manufacturer")

#7019 4 years ago

Slippery slope for one manufacturer to be bashing another for certain.
I'm sure AMH is a great playing game, but the artwork is no better than Skit-B's.
Still love me some Ben Heck though, I'd love to have a Spooky game someday.

#7020 4 years ago

Question for those with experience in the matter:

Some people are getting credit back from their credit card companies. Surely the credit card companies have a recourse against Kevin (or PayPal?) since they are eating these charge backs...

My guess is the credit card companies charge a hefty fine to the person or entity who took the credit card payment when their is a charge back later. If that trial leads to Kevin then just the finess/fees from the credit card companies themselves are eating into whatever monies are left? I really don't know, perhaps the credit card charge backs aren't hitting the money pool Kevin presumably has left at all. Thoughts?

#7021 4 years ago

Wish AMH well...
Saw Ben at TPF..
I imagine can't have some bitter feelings after.. JPOP collaboration and needing to running away from that big ass disaster.. now flowing like a volcano..
Skit-B..
Who knows when THLE will finally start production...
and others...
Though Heighway like AMH seems to be doing it the right way so far...

#7022 4 years ago

7,000 posts and not allowed to post Boobs to celebrate the event

#7023 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

7,000 posts and not allowed to post Boobs to celebrate the event

Hardly feels right does it?

#7024 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

Hardly feels right does it?

They look right and they feel right.
Ed gave up a chainsaw for those but Christmas is right around the corner.

#7025 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

Hardly feels right does it?

il_570xN.191838341.jpg
#7026 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

il_570xN.191838341.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

image.jpg

#7027 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Question for those with experience in the matter:
Some people are getting credit back from their credit card companies. Surely the credit card companies have a recourse against Kevin (or PayPal?) since they are eating these charge backs...
My guess is the credit card companies charge a hefty fine to the person or entity who took the credit card payment when their is a charge back later. If that trial leads to Kevin then just the finess/fees from the credit card companies themselves are eating into whatever monies are left? I really don't know, perhaps the credit card charge backs aren't hitting the money pool Kevin presumably has left at all. Thoughts?

Pretty sure his bank has 180 days to dispute it. They can dispute it on how much time has passed. Just saying.

-33
#7028 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The game sucked.
It barely worked at shows.
They had no path to manufacturing.
They would have run out of money if they tried.
All AG did was fire a bullet into the skull of an already dying dog.

Quoted from benheck:

Project has been suffering since 2013, when they started bleeding team members, it barely worked at Expo even with a proven system (PROC) and their website went dark.
And yes, I'm bitter. I'd rather have your money in my pocket in exchange for a game than Kevin doing god knows what with whatever's left.

I'm well aware now that the project was doomed to fail, but these posts come across as really petty. We know your opinion of the project and the game. That's been made clear a number of times. I'm not sure why repeatedly stating it is helpful to the current situation.

But it is nice to know that in addition to the people who lost their money, you're bitter as well. Misery loves company.

Quoted from benheck:

I'd rather have your money in my pocket in exchange for a game

You won't have to worry about that. I was looking forward to seeing your next game and possibly being a customer. Not anymore.

I guess I just expected better from someone who is so prominent and respected in the pinball community. I was wrong.

10
#7029 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

I'm well aware now that the project was doomed to fail, but these posts come across as really petty. We know your opinion of the project and the game. That's been made clear a number of times. I'm not sure why repeatedly stating it is helpful to the current situation.
But it is nice to know that in addition to the people who lost their money, you're bitter as well. Misery loves company.

You won't have to worry about that. I was looking forward to seeing your next game and possibly being a customer. Not anymore.
I guess I just expected better from someone who is so prominent and respected in the pinball community. I was wrong.

You do realize that Spooky did a ton of work for Predator and got burned like everyone else? So the feelings are justifiable.

#7030 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

You do realize that Spooky did a ton of work for Predator and got burned like everyone else? So the feelings are justifiable.

A lot of people got burned in this shit show. Ben's opinion has been stated on here numerous times. I'm not sure how continuing to post the same thing is helpful in any way.

-4
#7031 4 years ago
Quoted from angus:

If you have to go in front of a judge (or a cop or the fbi) for a lawsuit proof is important. Those without any money on Predator could care less about going in front of a judge, so having some real proof isn't important. I think Kcpinballfan cares about actually proving to someone else as opposed to just assuming it is the case. The lawyers name at Fox is about the best we have. Posts on the internet don't add up to much.

Exactly, you said it much better then I was coming across. If im gonna be labeled as killing the messenger Id like to know the person/s im killing. You see I guess Im different but if I have information that is legit im not gonna hide behind an anonymous moniker, that just doesn't sit well with me. If you're being truthful and have nothing to hide then why remain anonymous? What's the purpose of hiding? Are they really this worried what the people of this community think? I guess I just don't get it. You see at least pinball news did their research and had no problem coming forward with the story and we know who reported it, but to remain anonymous seems very childish and silly, its not like we are dealing with some top secret spy shit.

I welcome the thumbs down btw, roger ebert would be proud if he was still alive.

28
#7032 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

Slippery slope for one manufacturer to be bashing another for certain.

He's not bashing 'another manufacturer', he's bashing some fool in his basement.
And if he thinks the game sucked, he should be free to shout it out loud; it's a subjective opinion.

#7033 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

I'm not sure how continuing to post the same thing is helpful in any way.

Well, better send a memo to pretty much everyone posting in this thread. He's sharing his opinion, and I think many would agree he is in a unique position to do so. I get it - easy target, fairly public figure - but...just a guy who loves pinball like you and I.

13
#7034 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

I'm well aware now that the project was doomed to fail, but these posts come across as really petty. We know your opinion of the project and the game. That's been made clear a number of times. I'm not sure why repeatedly stating it is helpful to the current situation.
But it is nice to know that in addition to the people who lost their money, you're bitter as well. Misery loves company.

You won't have to worry about that. I was looking forward to seeing your next game and possibly being a customer. Not anymore.
I guess I just expected better from someone who is so prominent and respected in the pinball community. I was wrong.

I feel the opposite. There is only so much $$$ to,go around to the small guys and Predator and Jpop took A LOT of that money and many people will never give the small guy a chance again, and who can blame them? I will be more willing now to help out Ben and see his company make it.

#7035 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Spooky did a ton of work for Predator and got burned like everyone else?

How so? Seriously, curious. Did they not get paid for anything?

-1
#7036 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I feel the opposite. There is only so much $$$ to,go around to the small guys and Predator and Jpop took A LOT of that money and many people will never give the small guy a chance again, and who can blame them? I will be more willing now to help out Ben and see his company make it.

I am certainly willing to give the small guys a chance. And getting burned by Predator won't change the fact that I would like to continue to support some of them. My not buying a game associated with Ben in the future has nothing to with the predator debacle itself.

Edit: And judging by the amount of thumbs down my post is getting, he likely will get plenty of financial support elsewhere. He won't need mine.

#7037 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I will be more willing now to help out Ben and see his company make it.

So, if you had had money in this and had gotten ripped off by Kevin, you still would maintain that same sentiment? Especially, when the person makes multiple posts, in numerous threads, about how the game that you put money into 'sucked ass but at least they brought it to shows' and never would have 'made it' no matter what?

That's some serious Monday morning quarterbacking, especially posting it in a thread where everyone is still trying to get any portion of their money back. Sorry I didn't invest in your company, but f*(k off with the "I knew it all along" attitude that only came out after the proverbial shit hit the fan.

#7038 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

You do realize that Spooky did a ton of work for Predator and got burned like everyone else? So the feelings are justifiable.

How do you know this? I never heard Charlie or Ben say he didn't get paid by Kevin. Can you point to a post where they said Kevin didn't pay them for the work they did for Predator? I'm really curious.

32
#7039 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

But the constant bashing and blatant piling-on of how awful the Predator game was by you since the project failed has rubbed me the wrong way as completely unprofessional

What? Now that it's in the past he can't tell us how he really felt? Maybe he has been professional all along by not slamming it while it was viable.. but now that it's dead and in the past he can actually open up.

I find this 'insult' almost comical given the amount of crap throwing that happens constantly about games being good or not... and now you want to say Ben shouldn't give his opinion because... he's actually got practical experience DOING IT? Unlike 99.999% of the posters here? Can you step back and look at that again???

Quoted from blondetall:

It reeks of a bitter rival gloating that the competition failed and rubbing it in the faces of buyers to prove that they backed the wrong machine

I'm sorry, your post comes across as the polar opposite to me. Its a 'don't harm the snowflake' and a reader taking offense because they have to face something - not that someone is rubbing it in your face.

Would you stop buying Stern games if SteveR came in and said "yeah, that predator game wasn't very good"?

I appreciate Ben's comments because they come from someone who actually has walked in their shoes and knows the process... and didn't just stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

-1
#7040 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

So, if you had had money in this and had gotten ripped off by Kevin, you still would maintain that same sentiment? Especially, when the person makes multiple posts, in numerous threads, about how the game that you put money into 'sucked ass but at least they brought it to shows' and never would have 'made it' no matter what?
That's some serious Monday morning quarterbacking, especially posting it in a thread where everyone is still trying to get any portion of their money back. Sorry I didn't invest in your company, but f*(k off with the "I knew it all along" attitude that only came out after the proverbial shit hit the fan.

Would you like a cookie as a consolidation gift? Maybe a group vigil planned?

The butthurt is strong in this thread today...

11
#7041 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The butthurt is strong in this thread today...

Ease up there, gunslinger. Blondetall and Nibbles posted their respective opinions and now you have posted yours. Perhaps this situation hasn't touched you in a way that it has others. Put yourself in the place of those on the short end of this fiasco who stand to lose considerable money. Now, how would you feel when reading comments like that.

Not saying you and others can't voice their opinions but the "finger poke in the eye" is not necessary. At some point, a level of decorum and/or professionalism needs to take place. Dissenting opinions are fine, just use some civility.

@flynnibus - none of this is directed specifically at you. Your posts were the catalyst.

21
#7042 4 years ago

I hope you all get your money...I really do.
I was one of the first one's in on PRED (I think anyway). I was as excited for this machine as everyone else. Killer theme, boutique little guy, almost counter-culturesque....
After sending my initial deposit, I felt so confident that I even offered up my restaurant as a Canadian Launching point for his machine - I knew some guys in Toronto that had pre-ordered the pin and I figured that being just across the border from Kevin, that this might help him out economically).

Then....I went to MPE..... I had a chance to meet the SkitB "team".... As I said in my previous posts, I was super disappointed with the lack of care and courtesy Kevin displayed (his mom was actually pretty cool). I then played the game (yes it was a whitewood and it sounded great) but as Ben pointed out - the game sucked. It honestly was a huge let down. I don't know how many PRED buyers actually played the game, but I honestly think theme alone blinded many. Would it be a cool pin to have in a collection? Sure. Was it a good/great game - hardly.

After the way Kevin treated me and the gameplay - I bowed out and received my refund within a few weeks. I am sorry for all of you that are hanging on the edge....I hope it get's resolved for you all in a timely manner. It makes me sick thinking I could have been in the same boat.

#7043 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Ease up there, gunslinger. Blondetall and Nibbles posted their respective opinions and now you have posted yours. Perhaps this situation hasn't touched you in a way that it has others. Put yourself in the place of those on the short end of this fiasco who stand to lose considerable money. Now, how would you feel when reading comments like that.
Not saying you and others can't voice their opinions but the "finger poke in the eye" is not necessary. At some point, a level of decorum and/or professionalism needs to take place. Dissenting opinions are fine, just use some civility.
@flynnibus - none of this is directed specifically at you. Your posts were the catalyst.

If we go back to the prehistoric ages (back when this thread was created), we see the evolution of postings. It literally went from:

Optimisim=>Pred marketing=>Typical Hate/Love arguments=>Questioning wtf is going on with Skit-B=>realizing that Kevin officially f**k** up=>boob pics=>mob against Kevin=>giving Kevin benefit of the doubt=>more boob pics=>more bashing=>frustration

Which leads to now, the =>"bold, cut-to-the-chase, straight to the point" postings by guys like flynnibus. I can appreciate that

#7044 4 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

A lot of people got burned in this shit show. Ben's opinion has been stated on here numerous times. I'm not sure how continuing to post the same thing is helpful in any way.

#7045 4 years ago

No boobs??? ....(here's some yellow boobs)

Prude-Woman.jpg
#7046 4 years ago

^^ LOL, good laugh for the morning hahaha

42
#7047 4 years ago

I'm disappointed to see so much money pulled out of the market and be turned into nothing. That's compounded by my opinion of the game and the false pretense about the license.

Spooky was going to do their playfields. Chuck was the one in fact who figured out how to get the UV ink to at least sort of work. Automotive clear coat is meant to block UV light, he had to find a brand that didn't.

For the record, I also think solar roadways are a tricking joke and a giant scam as well.

-2
#7048 4 years ago

I'm pretty much done with the whole Predator situation, so until anything new comes to light (like a refund) all Predator discussion is to be held in the big trainwreck thread that can be easily drained out of sight. New threads such as this one serve no purpose other than stirring a pot of rotten soup. From now on any Predator thread that does not add anything useful to the pre-order people will be closed.

Robin I totally agree with this. Please close the "show us the money" thread, tired of seeing nothing but more bickering.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/show-us-the-money-kevin

#7049 4 years ago
Quoted from angus:

If you have to go in front of a judge (or a cop or the fbi) for a lawsuit proof is important.

From a civil lawsuit you have all the proof required imo. Kevin's agreement was:
You get a machine or you can have your money back at any time no questions asked.

He now has said "project is over, all the refunds are coming" but he won't give the money back. End of story. That is the civil contract that has been broken between the buyers and Skit-B and the emails and posts describing this agreement are the proof you require. It really doesn't matter if it's because of license-gate, a flood, disease, zombies, economy, upset stomach, etc... Kevin promised 100% refunds or a machine and he has delivered neither. If Kevin wants to argue the WHY of all this as though he's been done wrong it will be up to him to justify why he should be allowed to keep your money and violate his own agreement - my guess is no judge in a civil case will care about why he's refunding the money, just whether or not he is obliged to.

The license-gate thing is between the Fox, law enforcement, the attorney general, SkitB, etc.... Fox and the prosecutors are the ones who need this license-gate "proof" some of you so desperately want. Outside of pure curiosity, it makes no difference why the project is dead to justify getting your $5000 back - it was promised and you are owed.

15
#7050 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I understand that it had to be rough watching Skit-B sell out with a waiting list while non-licensed AHM limped along for a little bit trying to sell 100 units despite people claiming they wanted original unlicensed games. And surely it hurt that it didnt get much recognition even when it was the first boutique game made and delivered. It had to feel good that interest in AMH rose greatly after Predator was a dead project and (to my understanding) AMH has now sold out. And I honestly have no clue what, if any, kind of relationship/communication/drama there was between Skit-B and Benheck/AMH.
But the constant bashing and blatant piling-on of how awful the Predator game was by you since the project failed has rubbed me the wrong way as completely unprofessional. It reeks of a bitter rival gloating that the competition failed and rubbing it in the faces of buyers to prove that they backed the wrong machine. After months of worry, heartache, money loss, and anger, it just seems the last thing we need is a revered member of the pinball community and talented pinball designer pointing at us and calling us stupid for ever wanting a

If I did have the money (which of course I do not) I wouldnt be sending it to your pockets now. I'm not saying that AMH is bad, by any means, just that your business etiquette has jaded me in regards to it. Just my honest opinion, which of course means nothing, and I do respect you and what you have accomplished. Congratulations on getting it produced, delivered, and having everything lined up to continue your business for more games to come.

Always respected your position as moderator and the job you do, but this particular post reeks of personal investment in the Predator pinball, and now you're a bit butt hurt that it failed. I'm not saying your wrong for your opinion, but if you wanted to chastise a pin manufacturer you should have probably done it via PM and not let your position as moderator be clouded by your position as a pre-order participant in Predator. Spooky Pinball is a sponsored manufacturer of this forum, in the sense it has its own sub forum, so as a moderator, a bit over the top to say you'll boycott his company. As a moderator, it's not really possible to take off the moderator hat and put on the pinball enthusiast hat in threads like this. You have to wear one or the other but not both. Same for Ben...It's not really possible to switch hats from Manufacturer to Pin enthusiast without ruffling feathers.

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Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
$ 5.00
$ 17.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 2.00
Various Other Swag
Project Pinball Charity
$ 26.95
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