(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#6501 4 years ago
Quoted from nhm:

As has been stated...this is now in the legal phase. There will be no more communication, at all, zilch, none. The forum posts, chatter, etc. is 100% over with. Information will only come out through legal proceedings.

I agree with this. After several people have contacted Paypal, Credit Card companies, local authorities, etc, Kevin has "lawyered up."

My fingers are crossed for you guys........ getting your money back.

#6502 4 years ago

Wouldn't the most sound legal advice be to pay back what can right away and avoid as much backlash as you can? I know silence is probably the best move for him right now but just curious as I know there are a few Lawyers among us.

#6503 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

I agree with this. After several people have contacted Paypal, Credit Card companies, local authorities, etc, Kevin has "lawyered up."
My fingers are crossed for you guys........ getting your money back.

Again, IF he has lawyered up then someone should be able to identify his lawyer. The lawyer should provide communication in lieu of Kevin. I would think the lawyer could issue statements (where possible) to answer consumer's questions such as the current status of funds.

ALSO, what about Aaron Klumpp? Why is he also not on the hook? He spent 2+ years as half owner/partner of Skit-B as well, no? Has he lawyered up separately? Is Fox not going after him too? If not, why doesn't Martin try getting some answers out of him?

#6504 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Wouldn't the most sound legal advice be to pay back what can right away and avoid as much backlash as you can? I know silence is probably the best move for him right now but just curious as I know there are a few Lawyers among us.

Maybe, maybe not.

Some people here have already stated that even if they got 95% of their money back they would be going after Kevin out of principle.

With that dynamic, he my assume he's damned if he doesn't, damned if he doesn't.

And, I dont doubt for an INSTANT that he's reading EVERY one of these posts as he tried to figure out what do do next.

As such, Id send out a personal message to Kevin here, but I assume Id get another threadkick...

#6505 4 years ago

Well, unfortunately, after I get back in town after the weekend, I'm going to have to file. I've been waiting for 2.5 years. I'm done waiting.

http://courts.mi.gov/Self-help/center/casetype/Pages/SmallClaimsSH.aspx

Don't know if it'll do any good, but have to do something.

#6506 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Kathy Kulek was listed as "Legal and bookkeeping"

Has anyone tried to email Kathy to see if she refers you to the new legal team?

#6507 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Again, IF he has lawyered up then someone should be able to identify his lawyer. The lawyer should provide communication in lieu of Kevin. I would think the lawyer could issue statements (where possible) to answer consumer's questions such as the current status of funds.
ALSO, what about Aaron Klumpp? Why is he also not on the hook? He spent 2+ years as half owner/partner of Skit-B as well, no? Has he lawyered up separately? Is Fox not going after him too? If not, why doesn't Martin try getting some answers out of him?

No lawyer representing Kevin is going to communicate with the creditors except through formal processes. He would not take people's phone calls or anything like that for certain. You won't know who he is until he filed a document of some kind (answers a suit or files bankruptcy).

Regarding the bankruptcy discussion earlier in the thread, one point I will add is the debt is generally speaking non-dischargable in the bankruptcy due to it being an intentional act (fraud). That doesn't necisarily help anyone since it may nevertheless be non-collectable and the bankruptcy rules do provide protections for ones assets even in cases of an intentional act.

#6508 4 years ago

Hopefully he doesn't take a page from ol' dads playbook and hitchhike a semi truck ride down M-13...

#6509 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Regarding the bankruptcy discussion earlier in the thread, one point I will add is the debt is generally speaking non-dischargable in the bankruptcy due to it being an intentional act (fraud). That doesn't necisarily help anyone since it may nevertheless be non-collectable and the bankruptcy rules do provide protections for ones assets even in cases of an intentional act.

Fraud would have to be proven though. It's not something Kevin is going to stipulate to in any BK proceeding.

#6510 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I'm completely confused as to why there is no new information since 9 days ago. Pinball News puts out an article scaring the hell out of pre-order folks and leaving a LOT of unanswered questions (and promising a follow-up in "a few days", no?)

I had this crazy idea to reach out to Martin who's just another human who loves pinball. I've put my email and his response below. 9 days is not an eternity, and there WAS a major show going on. I am looking forward to reading it.

-----------------------

Dear Martin,

I am wondering (assuming yes) if you have been following the fallout from your story on Skit-B and Predator Pinball. Kevin came out after that article was published saying that there would a follow up article from your publication that would "set the record straight" on a number of points made.

I'm just writing to see if that is in fact true, and if anything of the sort will be forthcoming.

As always, keep up the great work you do for this hobby.

-----------------------

Hi Austin.

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes indeed, I will be publishing a follow up shortly. I have been away at the Texas Pinball Festival over the past few days but I will now be starting on the Predator second article.

Cheers,

Martin.

#6511 4 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

I had this crazy idea to reach out to Martin who's just another human who loves pinball. I've put my email and his response below.

Obviously no bad intentions on your part here but it's always a good idea to think twice before cutting and pasting personal correspondence (emails, PMs, etc.) onto a public forum.

#6512 4 years ago

At this point, who the hell cares what is in Martin's article? What is he going to do, give Kevin's side of the story, as told by Kevin? Kevin is a pathological liar, always has, and always will be.

#6513 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

At this point, who the hell cares what is in Martin's article? What is he going to do, give Kevin's side of the story, as told by Kevin? Kevin is a pathological liar, always has, and always will be.

Agreed. Kevin should be posting directly on pinside, where all this started. No offense, but will it take Martin another 3 months to verify all the statements Kevin provides for the story??

Martin and AG played their roles already. Spotlight should be just on Kevin - direct post to his pre-order owners, you know the people waiting for refunds.

#6514 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

At this point, who the hell cares what is in Martin's article? What is he going to do, give Kevin's side of the story, as told by Kevin? Kevin is a pathological liar, always has, and always will be.

Kevin, either through his own experience, or from direction of others (maybe his parents), has spent a significant part of the last half year using other people to:
1. filter communications (prevents him from being accountable for HIS words), so others spread false or misleading information, then they just "apologize" ("oops... my bad") and Kevin is free & clear from their false information spread to the community.
2. redirect attention/heat to them instead of to Kevin,
3. buying time / stalling through these wait & see channels/people/deadlines,
4. delay refunds & continue to earn interest on $800k-$1m in other peoples' money (depending on where the customers' money actually exists at this point)

Looks like more filtering & redirection is coming
We'll be debating the "words used" or the "questions not asked" through a channel/intermediary, instead of communication directly from the source. uhg.

#6515 4 years ago

Words don't matter anymore.

Kevin's, Martin's, The Anonymous Mafia's, Ted's, Paul's, Aaron's, etc.

Money talks. Everything else is varying shades of bullshit.

#6516 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Kevin should be posting directly on pinside, where all this started.

Yes, I'm sure that's going to happen any second now.

#6517 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Agreed. Kevin should be posting directly on pinside, where all this started. No offense, but will it take Martin another 3 months to verify all the statements Kevin provides for the story??
Martin and AG played their roles already. Spotlight should be just on Kevin - direct post to his pre-order owners, you know the people waiting for refunds.

Why bother?

ONE refund check trumps a thousand WORDS from Kevin.
He's just lied and lied.
He's duped other "seemingly" intelligent people to lie for him as well.
What possible value would you put in anything he SAYS?

#6518 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Why bother?
ONE refund check trumps a thousand WORDS from Kevin.
He's just lied and lied.
He's duped other "seemingly" intelligent people to lie for him as well.
What possible value would you put in anything he SAYS?

can't argue with that.

#6519 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Why bother?
ONE refund check trumps a thousand WORDS from Kevin.
He's just lied and lied.
He's duped other "seemingly" intelligent people to lie for him as well.
What possible value would you put in anything he SAYS?

My quote is being taken out of context by you and RobT.

I replied to another post asking when the new Martin article would be out on SkitB response. In which I agreed who cares, but if Kevin has anything to say it should be about refunds to people waiting for them communicated direct - not through sources.

#6520 4 years ago

This thread has turned into an American Express commercial.

At this point, I think refunds are a year away, though I do believe they will happen.

#6521 4 years ago

Since all the credit card companies have on-ongoing exhanges with Paypal, they will inform paypal of the dispute.

Without proof of shipment, the CC company could just deduct the amount due from their future payments to paypal.

Quoted from PinChili:

Ahh, okay. Just out of curiosity, in these situations, I assume the credit card company is issuing the refund from their own pockets? Does that mean they'll go after Kevin (or PayPal?) in order to get reimbursed themselves?

#6522 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

This thread has turned into an American Express commercial.
At this point, I think refunds are a year away, though I do believe they will happen.

for sure.
i'm totally rethinking my paypal usage because of this

#6523 4 years ago

Just called PayPal and tried to get more info. Asked if there was a bulletin or alert regarding Skit-B pinball or if a case was in the works. I also got it escalated as far up as I could. PayPal said any information regarding Skit-B is confidential and they cannot release. Got them to send me an to document it.

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

Here is the email you requested in reference to the claims you opened up on xx/xx/2015. Due to the time that has passed PayPal is unable to open claims on the transactions we spoke about. You will need to resolve this issue outside of PayPal. One method you can try would be to contact your credit card company and see if they will allow you to file a chargeback against this seller.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxx
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved.

#6524 4 years ago

I got the same response this afternoon.

Quoted from Cobra99:

Just called PayPal and tried to get more info. Asked if there was a bulletin or alert regarding Skit-B pinball or if a case was in the works. I also got it escalated as far up as I could. PayPal said any information regarding Skit-B is confidential and they cannot release. Got them to send me an to document it.
Dear xxxxxxxxx,
Here is the email you requested in reference to the claims you opened up on xx/xx/2015. Due to the time that has passed PayPal is unable to open claims on the transactions we spoke about. You will need to resolve this issue outside of PayPal. One method you can try would be to contact your credit card company and see if they will allow you to file a chargeback against this seller.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxx
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved.

#6525 4 years ago

Talked to someone a little more educated at my CC company today. For anything past 6 months I have to write them a letter. Once they have the letter, they may take up to 30 days to acknowledge said letter, then up to 90 days to investigate.

#6526 4 years ago

just 159 posts to go

gif eating-watermellon.gif
#6527 4 years ago

I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly....

There are people on here that are just NOW finding out about this PayPal situation but were plenty fine to give money away to someone based on them being a "cool guy and good pinball player" knowing full well they may not get their game in a year or two but most people on here when doing deals with others are "adamantly against PayPal" because of the scam possibilities of buying another pinball?

There is a thread about how "not to get scammed" on here and everyone talks about it all the time, but for pre-orders no one realized this? Again, I knew going into it my risk was $250, that's it. I am still out $250 but everyone on here is scared to trust others with PayPal but this was ok?

I am just not understanding, this was highly risky to begin with if you paid your whole pre-order.

#6528 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

Just called PayPal and tried to get more info. Asked if there was a bulletin or alert regarding Skit-B pinball or if a case was in the works. I also got it escalated as far up as I could. PayPal said any information regarding Skit-B is confidential and they cannot release. Got them to send me an to document it.
Dear xxxxxxxxx,
Here is the email you requested in reference to the claims you opened up on xx/xx/2015. Due to the time that has passed PayPal is unable to open claims on the transactions we spoke about. You will need to resolve this issue outside of PayPal. One method you can try would be to contact your credit card company and see if they will allow you to file a chargeback against this seller.
It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxx
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Copyright © 1999-2015 PayPal. All rights reserved.

Same here. PP dispute rep is now informed of my case, and the 180 others. that was my main goal. They are aware of Kevin Kulek/SkitB situation, but could not say anything, other than Kevin is not ABLE to refund.

The guy did tell me that PP would refund the buyers and chase after Kevin for repayment if/when it comes to that. ( his words, not mine).

He also said my CC I paid with through PP can help, so I called my bank, they said 30 days, that's it.

At least my bank and PayPal are aware of this guys case added to the multitude of others.

11
#6529 4 years ago

I wish to merely suggest, that at ones bank, or Credit card Service provider, the first person reached is usually someone new. They are trained to know the 30 days, 60 days, and to share that, in the hopes to close the situation and call.
I would like to suggest you try escalating this beyond the first person...A supervisor, fraud department...be persistent, it could help.
As I work with both sides, many of the resolutions I have needed in Business and as a Consumer,
have come from moving "up the line". When I have had a supervisor, who has said, "The first Person
you spoke with is correct" I thank them, and recall later, requesting a supervisor to start..I avoid the first agent. Way to often, has this produced different results.

Just some of my experiences. Maybe it might help someone.

#6530 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Fraud would have to be proven though. It's not something Kevin is going to stipulate to in any BK proceeding.

The evidence needed to authorize the warrant is enough proof. States vary in how they describe the crime legally sometimes. "Obtaining money under false pretenses" is the same thing as fraud. Again, the answer is simple.
1. Did Kevin state he had the licensing even when others questioned it? YES
2. Did Kevin then proceed to accept money to build the game when he knowingly did not have the licensing and could not legally build the game? YES

His "intent" is inferred by his actions. He does not have to admit to anything or say a word. He has already said enough in his electronic statements to infer his intent. And he has not followed through on his promises in those statements to return anyone's money. So thats more false statements that can/will be used against him to further show his intent in the eyes of the court.
How can you accept money to build a game you have no legal right to build? How can you defend that act in court? If he had the licensing and his business model went upside down it would be a civil matter, not a criminal one. And no company formed etc? There is a lot of inferred intent here.
Add on the other charges that follow like ducks in a row for use of an electronic devise to commit a crime, the interstate financial transactions law violations, conspiracy to commit fraud (his mom and wife profiting from their positions in this) and there is a good chance of him being found guilty of some serious charges here.

The proof required for the charge is there. His defense in court will be that he had no "intent" to defraud, that he was just an incompetent businessman. Will the judge/jury believe his defense? Who knows? But if people do not get their promised refunds its a tough position to defend for his attorney.

#6531 4 years ago

I think the proof you would need would be that he didn't have the license. All we have right now is the word of anonymous internet people.

#6532 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

There are people on here that are just NOW finding out about this PayPal situation but were plenty fine to give money away to someone based on them being a "cool guy and good pinball player" .

you forgot something very important... Kevin was a "cool guy" and "a good pinball player" but most importantly (to me at least) he has "a ‘punk rock’ approach to pinball"

#6533 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

The evidence needed to authorize the warrant is enough proof. States vary in how they describe the crime legally sometimes. "Obtaining money under false pretenses" is the same thing as fraud. Again, the answer is simple.
1. Did Kevin state he had the licensing even when others questioned it? YES
2. Did Kevin then proceed to accept money to build the game when he knowingly did not have the licensing and could not legally build the game? YES
His "intent" is inferred by his actions. He does not have to admit to anything or say a word. He has already said enough in his electronic statements to infer his intent. And he has not followed through on his promises in those statements to return anyone's money. So thats more false statements that can/will be used against him to further show his intent in the eyes of the court.
How can you accept money to build a game you have no legal right to build? How can you defend that act in court? If he had the licensing and his business model went upside down it would be a civil matter, not a criminal one. And no company formed etc? There is a lot of inferred intent here.
Add on the other charges that follow like ducks in a row for use of an electronic devise to commit a crime, the interstate financial transactions law violations, conspiracy to commit fraud (his mom and wife profiting from their positions in this) and there is a good chance of him being found guilty of some serious charges here.
The proof required for the charge is there. His defense in court will be that he had no "intent" to defraud, that he was just an incompetent businessman. Will the judge/jury believe his defense? Who knows? But if people do not get their promised refunds its a tough position to defend for his attorney.

Well, you need to understand the "punk rock of pinball" defense....

cramps3.jpg
#6535 4 years ago

Really wouldn't mind karma chewing Kevin and his wife's asses up and spitting them out into a garbage disposal of misery. May they reap much more than they've ever sowed.

#6536 4 years ago
Quoted from cooldan:

just 159 posts to go

gif eating-watermellon.gif

Old, but Tosh found the best watermelon eating video ever:

#6537 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

If you must insist on going to see Kevin face to face, take a police officer with you. Might even want to have that arrest warrant delivered at that time. In fact, you better check in with the police before going to the trouble to go up there. If you don't have them with you, you will be trespassing.
Be smart.

This is really good advice. You'd be surprised at just how willing the police are to help out with stuff like this, it's their job and they're there for you. I had a situation once where I bought a house at a tax sale, the whole thing was an adversarial situation and we just went and got the cops to go with us, it changed the way the whole thing went down and everything worked out.

I can't believe Kevin's letting it get to this, surely he can't realize just how bad this is going to end up. Years in prison...

#6538 4 years ago

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.

You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).

The release date keeps getting pushed back.....

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

#6539 4 years ago

We're all suckers we just need something to dream about at night. Good luck to all regarding refunds. My fngers are heavily crossed. It might not be 'swift' or easy but you will prevail. I hope the rug matches the drapes. image.jpg

#6540 4 years ago

Did kevin say punk of pinball or we have been punkd.

punkd.jpg

#6541 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.
You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).
The release date keeps getting pushed back.....
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

That is stunning to read. Thanks for the link vid.

#6542 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.
You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).
The release date keeps getting pushed back.....
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

Difference is, right now you can play a lot of the game. The timeline was announced up front, and there is no question that everything about this game is legit legally. Sure, 10k is crazy for some virtual ships, but like anything else, if someone wants to pay that, it's their business, no one is forcing them to. The reason he has collected 77MIL so far is that there is demand for a game like this, and he is taking his time to make a great game.

#6543 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.
You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).
The release date keeps getting pushed back.....
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

I've read about this before and it's insane. Of course the game is taking forever to get made, the designer is off enjoying the 77 million dollars. It's a good reflection of the demand in video gaming though which is still many, many times more than pinball. Stupid kids.

On another note Vid, as a huge Tosh fan I don't know how I've never seen that particular segment before but I think I just wet myself. Hilarious, lol.

#6544 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

That suggests intent. I have met Kevin, and I DO NOT think that whatever he is dealing with is intentional. I mean... he had not set out and planned and plotted to con anyone or make this a long terrible process.
I think Kevin started with the very best of intentions... things went south... emergency protocols went into place to prevent a run on the bank... bandaids became bandages... cuts became wounds... and now things have inadvertently come to a point where things are really, really serious.
Not saying that Kevin could not have prevented it with some better planning and a partner who had done this kind of thing before... just saying he is NOT a con man. I dont believe that for a second.
A fibber maybe... but not in the beginning... and not as a part of an elaborate plan. No way. This guy wants to build an awesome Predator pinball machine and always has. Possibly... he cant.
We shall see I guess.

Maybe i should have posted my concerns along time ago. But would anyone have listened?

#6545 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This guy has collected 77 million for his 1/2 built game since 2012.

You can buy a $10,000 "Wing Commander" package now that gives you 44 virtual ships in the game (if it ever gets made).

The release date keeps getting pushed back.....

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

+1 Thanks for the link Vid. That was one of my favorite games growing up......Wing Commander, Ultima and of course Pinball.

#6546 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Of course the game is taking forever to get made, the designer is off enjoying the 77 million dollars

Actually Chris Roberts, the owner and lead designer, is very heavily involved and available as he does regular podcasts answering questions on the game from the public. It's crazy how much people are spending on the game but there is definite continuous information and playable updates about it. Quite a remarkable project.

#6547 4 years ago
Quoted from GreenMeerkat:

It's crazy how much people are spending on the game

I've heard that said of pinheads buying NIB LEs too!

#6548 4 years ago

Seems appropriate for a message from Kevin today....

-4
#6549 4 years ago

Instead of an update from PBN on this, the hottest and most relevant story to the future of pinball, we get a story on a "new" game the Scoregasm. Seriously PBN? That's 4 stories and a week and a half since breaking the story and you're yet to report any update?

18
#6550 4 years ago

I don't post here often but have been following this thread since the beginning.

I was game number 206 and had paid in full.

Just wanted to let everyone know I got my full refund, not from Kevin mind you, but from Mastercard.

I'm out the $250 deposit, which honestly at this point I'm fine with but the dispute through my credit card company worked and now Kevin has 45 days to respond and if he doesn't I'm free and clear. But really what could he respond with anyway.

They asked if I had details of the specific delivery date, I told them I didn't but I had proof of receipt as well as the email from Kevin saying the project is dead and I should be getting a refund and that was enough for Mastercard.

So I've got the tentative refund and assuming nothing changes I'm free and clear of this mess finally.

Good luck to everyone else

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