(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,544 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

72329539_10219705910182373_6362298985876553728_n (resized).jpg
pirateplayersclub (resized).jpg
case against keith.pdf (PDF preview)
_2_16-21030.pdf (PDF preview)
Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18301 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 367.
#601 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

The Law of Information Flow -- "Information, like electricity, WILL flow, and it will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance." If you don't communicate with stakeholders, the grapevine will thrive. If you communicate with stakeholders, you can keep the grapevine in check.

The grapevine is a weed. It will never die. The best you can hope for is to contain it through proactive weed control. The "grapevine" surrounding Skit-B and the company's product is thriving BECAUSE OF Kevin's choices regarding information flow (e.g., removing all traces of Predator licensing information from the website, not responding to customer request for refunds, not promptly following up on emails to the "Support" team). Those very choices are actually further complicating his life, from a business perspective and a personal perspective, so if he truly wants to achieve better balance in life, he needs to change how he interacts with stakeholders.

Charlie Emery is managing information flow proactively. He is very good at "proactive weed control". Charlie appears to have achieved a pretty healthy life balance.

Kevin is managing information flow reactively, and only when it becomes a crisis. He's ignoring the weeds, and they are aggressively overtaking the lawn. Kevin has more than once alluded to the impact of this situation on his personal health (e.g., "it's simply not healthy for me", "This is exactly why it is unhealthy for me to regularly check in here").

After years of posts re this pin and hundreds of threads begging Kevin to "communicate". This is another twist, albeit some good BS corporate speak, on the obvious yet at least entertaining.

"Making pinball is hard" and "Money sucks"......hehe

But don't wake Kevin up, shhhhhh, he isn't from the corporate world, he's building these in his mom's kitchen.

Good job

#602 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Hey Chicken Little, this has been put to rest already! The licence doesn't allow certain forms of advertising. Get over it

It was?

When?

I must have missed it. Please provide the link. Or perhaps one of the 4 people who gave you a thumbs up for this can provide the link on your behalf since they agree that "the license doesn't allow certain forms of advertising".

#603 4 years ago

Any bets if you think we will see games by Christmas 2015?

#604 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It was?
When?
I must have missed it. Please provide the link. Or perhaps one of the 4 people who gave you a thumbs up for this can provide the link on your behalf since they agree that "the license doesn't allow certain forms of advertising".

It is out in the ether somewhere, but I sure as hell dont care to dig for it.

#605 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

Any bets if you think we will see games by Christmas 2015?

depends, what do you want to bet?

#606 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

It is out in the ether somewhere, but I sure as hell dont care to dig for it.

Right. Because it doesn't exist.

#607 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Right. Because it doesn't exist.

Actually it is out there Rob. I just don't care to go get it. Does not matter to me anymore.

I lost my bet, but my game will still get here at some point. We are thus far getting updates and some communication. I wish there was some more substance and I want to see some assembled pfs soon, but it will all get done at some point.

#608 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Actually it is out there Rob.

Prove me wrong then. Who said it? Another Pinsider who was speculating?

If you are too lazy to do it, I'm sure one of the 4 people who gave his post a thumbs up would be happy to step up to the plate and do it for you.

And if someone does, I will apologize profusely, and admit that I'm a big boob!

#609 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And if someone does, I will apologize profusely, and admit that I'm a big boob!

Hey, man, you should probably tilt that post. I'm just saying.

#610 4 years ago

I feel relaxed with regards to The Predator now, almost like I want but don't care enough to worry about it anymore. That's part of the issue with these boutiques pins and waiting years. For me anyway my patience and attention span is limited, still want it but I have my TWDLE, new code coming soon I hope for STLE even though its great right now and THLE is a few months away, maybe. Aliens is on the horizon so Kevin take your time and hurry up.

#611 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Prove me wrong then. Who said it? Another Pinsider who was speculating?
If you are too lazy to do it, I'm sure one of the 4 people who gave his post a thumbs up would be happy to step up to the plate and do it for you.
And if someone does, I will apologize profusely, and admit that I'm a big boob!

Im pretty sure its speculation at this point though I sense this is the case. I may have been outta context saying it was confirmed. My bad.

#612 4 years ago

Well a long time ago I was #77, even if I moved up I'm thinking at this rate I'll see my game in quarter 2 of 2016. There have been no assembly pics so that leads me to believe they haven't started assembling games yet. I'm hoping the next update actually has some substance instead of pics we have basically already seen like the first two updates. This has been a long process full of speculation and no fun.

#613 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Im pretty sure its speculation at this point though I sense this is the case. I may have been outta context saying it was confirmed. My bad.

That's exactly how I remember it. Lots of discussion, and people speculating that there was something to that effect in the licensing agreement. But this was never confirmed, and to me it doesn't make sense. Why would the licenser not want them to advertise the pin as much as possible?

#614 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Prove me wrong then. Who said it? Another Pinsider who was speculating?
If you are too lazy to do it, I'm sure one of the 4 people who gave his post a thumbs up would be happy to step up to the plate and do it for you.
And if someone does, I will apologize profusely, and admit that I'm a big boob!

The link below is the post made by Aaron of Fast Pinball. If you believe Aaron has seen Skit-B's Predator licensing agreement, then this post will satisfy your query regarding the question "Why doesn't Skit-B mention Predator on their bi-weekly update, website or other social media?". It would also influence you to apologize and admit that you are a big boob.

If you do not believe that Aaron has seen Skit-B's licensing agreement for Predator, then this post does not prove a thing and you still have doubts regarding the status of the license so you will not be apologizing at all.

Link: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-few-words-from-skit-b-pinball/page/6#post-2110052

For those who prefer not to click a link, here is the post from the thread:

"I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.

Aaron
FAST Pinball"

Personally, I believe that Aaron has seen the Predator Licensing Agreement.

Marcus

#615 4 years ago

*snarky message about the Predator-word-phobia rethought and then deleted*

Best wishes guys on getting your machines this year!

#616 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

*snarky message about the Predator-word-phobia rethought and then deleted*

Best wishes guys on getting your machines this year!

Coming from you, as one of the harshest critics of Predator, your present stance is appreciated. Although I didn't always agree with your points, you among others, at least made me take off my "predator-colored glasses" and consider a closer look at what was/is happening. At the end of the day, I'm still in for the long haul on this machine. Hell, I waited for WOZ. Perhaps I'm one of the "suckers" P.T. Barnum mentioned.

16
#617 4 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

The link below is the post made by Aaron of Fast Pinball. If you believe Aaron has seen Skit-B's Predator licensing agreement, then this post will satisfy your query regarding the question "Why doesn't Skit-B mention Predator on their bi-weekly update, website or other social media?". It would also influence you to apologize and admit that you are a big boob.
If you do not believe that Aaron has seen Skit-B's licensing agreement for Predator, then this post does not prove a thing and you still have doubts regarding the status of the license so you will not be apologizing at all.
Link: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-few-words-from-skit-b-pinball/page/6#post-2110052
For those who prefer not to click a link, here is the post from the thread:
"I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.
Aaron
FAST Pinball"
Personally, I believe that Aaron has seen the Predator Licensing Agreement.
Marcus

Thanks Marcus.

This does come close enough to make me admit that I'm a big boob!!

Would be nice if Aaron could simply confirm whether he has actually seen the licensing agreement himself, but I think that is what he implied in his post.

Again, in case it was missed, I AM A BIG BOOB!

#618 4 years ago

Again, in case it was missed, I AM A BIG BOOB.

Been there...

#619 4 years ago

Hey, I like big boobs. Next time choose an appropriate section of anatomy for your admission.

#620 4 years ago

I am Spartacus!

#621 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Hey, I like big boobs. Next time choose an appropriate section of anatomy for your admission.

Was that a post that I should have self tilted?

#622 4 years ago

Since we are clear on the licensing issue, can SkitB start responding customers' emails/messages? I thought they are better now on the communication front. I have emailed Kevin/Support numerous times since Nov. with no response. I messaged them on their new website, and so far not a beep. What gives?

#623 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Again, in case it was missed, I AM A BIG BOOB!

quoted for fun

#624 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

quoted for fun

You could have had even more fun with it if you were the one who took the time to find the quoted post!

#625 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It was?
When?
I must have missed it. Please provide the link. Or perhaps one of the 4 people who gave you a thumbs up for this can provide the link on your behalf since they agree that "the license doesn't allow certain forms of advertising".

Quoted from fastpinball:

I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

This is it in a nut shell. They can't promote it in the way some want/demand it to be but it is such a small run so they were not worried about promoting it in that manner. It has been stated by the maker to customers there is absolutely no issue with them delivering 250 Predator machines to those waiting.

#626 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

"I'm ignorant of the legal situation Kevin is under, but I wish he could have just said this months ago:
“Hey guys, so we’re building this game, and it’s going great. To keep costs low we’re not allowed to specifically talk about the IP online. We don’t really know if that even means we can’t say the name of it in this message, but to prevent problems we’re going to play it safe. It’s the game you all know, nothing has changed, and the license is fine. But that’s why we pulled all the info, helps you get your game cheaper. Sorry for the confusion, carry on!”

I'm curious as to how much cheaper that really makes each game? Are we talking < $100 or > $1,000?

Maybe Stern and JJP should get in on that deal? Buy a mystery themed game and save big money!?!

Has anyone ever heard of a similar license restriction where you could sell a product publicly, but not be allowed to mention that you produced said product?! That sounds baffling to a small minded boob like myself.

#627 4 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

"I thought Kevin would hit that one more directly in the email, since the licensing topic is a hot one with all the DP stuff going on. Pretty simple. Licensing says you cannot promote the IP online, social media, in marketing, etc. You get what you pay for. Since it was a limited run that was sold out, paying for the opportunity to promote as such would have been a waste of money.

Aaron
FAST Pinball"

I remember that post, thanks Aaron for partially helping Kevin make a simple disclosure that would be totally understandable for pinhead world. "I don't think I can promote using the IP so I have to take all references down".........because the Licensor scared the shit out of me.

There is a huge difference in "promotion" of the IP for profit under the Licensing agreement and "use/display" of the IP in the public domain as a result of the product I just built based on the license.

As a lawyer, of course I myself am interested in what the actual words SAY in the agreement with the Licensor, it matters! And I'm curious

Aaron is trying to paraphrase as a non lawyer and the rest of the "etc." part would be helpful.

I don't see how "displaying the IP" for no further monetary benefit to SkitB or the Licensor would somehow "damage" or harm the Licensor.

However they got the license, it seems to me it wouldn't be too difficult to negotiate an amendment to the agreement without much if any additional cost for further public display without the ability to profit from it.

And/or, how about licensing a cool mod like the skulls topper, putting images on them from the movie, raise the price and pay the Licensor a fee for that, which includes the right to display with the machine.

See the Stern TWD topper? Priced at $399?

#628 4 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Has anyone ever heard of a similar license restriction where you could sell a product publicly, but not be allowed to mention that you produced said product?! That sounds baffling to a small minded boob like myself.

I don't think the agreement says that

It appears, what they are saying, is that he violated the agreement in the first place by "promoting" the IP online, in public, etc., etc.

He had a licensing agreement that said he could go sell 250 Predator pinball machines to family and friends basically but you can't use the IP in any way to promote those sales in any public manner.

I assume the Licensor wanted to make a fee, and they did in fact, have already been paid, thus if this is all true, its one F ed up agreement.

Licensor subsequently came down on him and he agreed to pull everything. Why exactly did they come down on him?

If you recall the big TBL licensing issues that are still ongoing you'll remember that they couldn't use

1) The specific Kahlua brand in the pinball machine without that companies permission

2) Couldn't show Goodman with a firearm.

What else? Yet the DP guys disregard the licensing agreement, did it anyhow, and that put the license in jeopardy, according to Phil who was handling that part of it.

What kind of restrictions do you imagine were in the Predator license that were violated that they didn't like?

The only reason we know of the TBL and DP licensing issues right now is because Phil used a scorched earth tactic on his way out.

When the final product comes out, the mystery will be solved!

16
#629 4 years ago

Like I offered to the DP guys, I offer to SkitB and their efforts any help I can give them, as a fellow pinhead and lawyer, free of charge, even if its just as a second set of eyes.

Whatever I can do, not that its needed, the offer is there. Sometimes the non stop BS discussion can get tiresome if people aren't willing to just step up and help right?

GL

#630 4 years ago

Kevin, ice is offering up free legal advice, you should take him up on it. Thanks iceman for the generosity.

TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
#632 4 years ago

I have a serious question for someone privy to the private emails.
Does Skit B mention the word Predator in them? They certainly aren't "promoting anything" to current buyers. What a f'd up license.

#634 4 years ago
#635 4 years ago

So there are no private emails? Nice. I think it is a good gesture on their part that they are allowing the community to see the emails they are sending out.

#636 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Like I offered to the DP guys, I offer to SkitB and their efforts any help I can give them, as a fellow pinhead and lawyer, free of charge, even if its just as a second set of eyes.
Whatever I can do, not that its needed, the offer is there. Sometimes the non stop BS discussion can get tiresome if people aren't willing to just step up and help right?
GL

You're a good man Ice.

#637 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I have a serious question for someone privy to the private emails.
Does Skit B mention the word Predator in them? They certainly aren't "promoting anything" to current buyers. What a f'd up license.

First rule of Predator club we do not use the word "predator" im risking license and my spot in line for even giving the first rule of the club.

16
#638 4 years ago

Who cares if they can say Predator or not? I couldn't give a flying F about that. The ONLY thing that matters is if they stick to their word and actually build these things in a timely manner for those that have paid in full and are still in despite all the BS.

#640 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Who cares if they can say Predator or not? I couldn't give a flying F about that. The ONLY thing that matters is if they stick to their word and actually build these things in a timely manner for those that have paid in full and are still in despite all the BS.

I see Ted's "Yup" and raise with a "Hell Yes"!

#641 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Who cares if they can say Predator or not? I couldn't give a flying F about that. The ONLY thing that matters is if they stick to their word and actually build these things in a timely manner for those that have paid in full and are still in despite all the BS.

Apparently the licensor does.

#642 4 years ago

The licensor probably doesn't want someone designing a game, talking about it all over the internet and then the product never gets made (for whatever reason). It makes the brand look like a flop, which is damaging. So they just tell the license holder to keep quiet until the product is ready to ship. Stern seems to do the same thing but we don't notice because they don't need to get pre-orders to finance their projects.

#643 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

The licensor probably doesn't want someone designing a game, talking about it all over the internet and then the product never gets made (for whatever reason). It makes the brand look like a flop, which is damaging. So they just tell the license holder to keep quiet until the product is ready to ship. Stern seems to do the same thing but we don't notice because they don't need to get pre-orders to finance their projects.

That makes sense and I really do appreciate taking the time to address my question. I'm not trying to troll the thread but the use of such a well known license by such an unknown company such as Skit B is really interesting IMO.

1 week later
#644 4 years ago

So skit-B have openly stated they can't promote Predator? Sorry, I must have missed that one. All I see is the word from someone that knows them. Please correct me if I'm wrong but i'll only take the word from the people that have the license and so far, I haven't seen them say a thing about it other than they have the right to use the license in the manner they see fit.

Now, on to the 'Bi-weekly' update please.

#645 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

The licensor probably doesn't want someone designing a game, talking about it all over the internet and then the product never gets made (for whatever reason). It makes the brand look like a flop, which is damaging. So they just tell the license holder to keep quiet until the product is ready to ship. Stern seems to do the same thing but we don't notice because they don't need to get pre-orders to finance their projects.

I guess JJP has a different kind of licensing agreement.

#646 4 years ago

I hope they start production soon as I'm so hanging out for the two nifty little Skit-B Pinball key chains.

#647 4 years ago

Wishing everyone that's in on Predator the best of luck.

e14b3cd365657ff1382a72a5bfd1cc2a49cb4f2f.jpg
#648 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

I guess JJP has a different kind of licensing agreement.

Yeah, someone was saying skitb didn't get the full promotional license because the pins were already sold out so they didn't need to advertise.

JJP is selling unlimited hobbits so they need to advertise. I have no idea on the specifics, but they would have 2 differently structured license agreements.

#649 4 years ago

Did anyone get a bi-weekly update this time around?

#650 4 years ago

We're comming up on the one year anniversary of the famous mission complete thread!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-pinball-mission-complete

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
From: € 3.70
Flipper Parts
Buthamburg
$ 55.95
Boards
Allteksystems
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 35.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
€ 68.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
YOYOKOPTER MODS
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 199.99
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
$ 65.00
Playfield - Plastics
Gold Wings Repro Ramp Out of stock
Vandelay Industries
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
$ 84.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 50.00
€ 9.10
$ 299.00
$ 109.99
From: $ 38.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
$ 5,499.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 5,799.00
Pinball Machine
Operation Pinball
$ 26.95
There are 18301 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 367.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside