Like I said before, the emails and snippets that I was seeing as "from the AG" never seemed to match up. They had different tones, with some concerned about owners and some just out for blood and to hurt Kevin at all costs, basically saying the owners had it coming to them so they got what they deserved. If those emails were indeed from the same group, I think at least one of them has a hatred for Kevin that overrides everything else, including what is best for the ones with money still tied up in this. Now it seems like they've backed off, which I think is best for all involved, as there's still a lot of anger and frustration going on and it's being pointed at any target to be found. Maybe them backing down will lower the flames and pitchforks a bit.

Hopefully Kevin is doing something and we'll actually see refunds coming in soon, or at least an email about what is going on. I'm also hoping that he'll make some sort of statement about credit card chargebacks and if he'll dispute them, as most have a timespan (30-60 days on some) that everything is still on hold and in limbo. We're all still sitting and waiting for the first hint of a refund to anyone, and waiting sucks. If anyone does get any good news at all, or a glimmer of it, please share. If anyone is still working on credit card chargebacks, I'll repost my advice here in case it got lost in the masses.

Quoted from earlier in this thread:
We paid the remainder of the balance last March via PayPal but backed with a credit card. It was actually over a year ago so we thought we were out of luck, but others were trying with some success so we called and talked to the dispute center at Chase. Since we paid in advance and weren't expecting the machine until Q4 (if it had started on time then and with our build # being halfway-ish) they put down 12/31/14 as the expected date and opened a chargeback dispute. I'd already paid off the card so there's no "temporary" funds showing or anything at all happening per the website, so I called them and they said it is in process and Kevin has 60 days/2 billing cycles to dispute before they can issue the money back.
So, despite it being over a year, as long as there's no dispute from him, I may get some of my money back. And if he tries to dispute it, there's going to be a big fight. So we paid through PayPal but everything is taking place with the credit card company instead. My advice to anyone in the same situation is to tell them something similar to the above, as we do have the emails showing where production was supposed to start in early/mid 2014 and funds were asked for at the time for sourcing parts. It was a prepayment with a calculatable timeline that will put expected dates more in the range of the chargeback time limits than the date that you actually paid.

assuming his accounting is anywhere close to being in order, this should be a very short and easy process...

All this talk of refunds is nonsensical. I am not waiting patiently for Kevin to process a refund. I am going after my money full speed. To date, he has clearly shown he is not forthcoming with anything. Why would I choose to believe him now?

Maybe Kevin can just cover himself in mud to hide
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yup

you are a wise man...

This whole situation is just so incredibly amateur, it is amazing that a working machine was even built in the first place. You'd think someone intelligent enough to build something from the ground up like a pin would have better sense than this. It just blows my mind, and I am so sorry for everyone that was taken for a ride. I really hope everyone receives their $$$ back.

I suspect that would be a huge assumption.

I don't think I blame anyone for having some hatred for him after finding out the truth.

Regardless, if we go back and read through the thread history no one was able to express any negative opinion fact or not without being jumped on by a different set of torch carriers.

IMHO... I think they are seeking vindication more than anything. They got ripped over and over here about not falling in line and drinking the koolaid. Now they want this moment...

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I don't think you should believe him at all, nobody has any reason to.

I'm just saying that if he thinks he is having a rough go at life right now, a huge mistake would be to not make good on his promise to refund people.

This is not some veiled threat of violence, I have no interest in taking this to that level. There are other effective ways of getting things accomplished without the same level of personal risk on my end.

NOVEMBER 2014
"We expressed our concern for the 250 Pre-owners, and they need to know Fox is shutting things down, because they need to start requesting their refunds. We were asked to NOT tell the 250 people (or anybody) as Fox wanted complete and undisturbed access to Kevin without any warning or disturbance"
DECEMBER 2014
"We bring the story to Pinball News."

"The weight of handling the information looming large."

This is BS and only letting the higher ups in the pinball world is appalling. Saying they didn't want to kill the project is a copout! The project was dead long before that.

They knew this in Nov 2014 and sat on it for four months. yanked their money out and left others holding the bag. How much money was spend after November? This could of been saved. All this talk about the remaining people taking a cut of what left. Makes me sick. I applaud the initial effort but this is where the beans should of been spilled and let everyone try to get refunds. The AG stinks and reeks of entitlement and cowardice.

Or move to Alaska and make a pitch to Christo on Goldrush. It would be Team Christians led by Todd vs. Team Pagans led by Kevin. Both must find a thousand ounces of gold this season......

"TRY" being the key word. If there was a run on the bank (like there is now) - who is to say he would have had the means to issue refunds in December? People need to realize the only real difference between NOW and maybe December would have been any cash burn. Do you really think they've been busy building stuff over the last 4months?

The constraints on issuing refunds isn't tied to the timing of the news breaking now. The same problems would have been happening in December too.

And the team did not make this discovery.. get their funds out.. and then sit on it. The story as they told it was the two with refunds got out PRIOR to license-gate, and one of them was still stuck in limbo waiting for a refund.

Instead of pointing the finger at the whistleblowers... one can easily say, why didn't Kevin pull the ripcord and issue refunds on his own at that point in the fall of 2014 when he clearly knew people were onto the lies?

Ask yourself... what would have changed if the PBN story ran in Dec instead of March?

Correct. But for those of you who have needed the services of attorneys in the past you will recall that there are two things they tell you right off the bat.

1. Don't do anything...sit tight and shut up
2. Pay me immediately. I don't care where you get the money from but I will not provide you with any further service without cash up front.

So where do you think he is going to get the money? Yup...he already has it from buyers. Paypal is not going to be the problem here. Its very doubtful any refunds will be coming in the near future.

I don't blame the AG of bringing down Predator. 100% of the blame is on Kevin. Since 100% is on Kevin so should 100% of the cost. I didn't invest in SKIT-B, I bought a pinball machine. No machine! no reason to keep any of the money. He was going to profit from this endeavor. Pretty simple in my eyes.

For some the four months could of helped the dispute/charge back to not expired.

The main difference as explained by some owners is that they still would have been in their window to dispute a credit card charge apparently.

Edit: Cobra beat me

im wondering how much longer Kevin wanted to stretch this ugly truth and keep it under wraps if the AG didnt found out with the license he never got.

he probably gained an serious chump of money of extra interest out of all the predators/pinsiders money dont you guys think?

people say that probably paypal frozen up that account with money, well how sure is that?
any proof? i dont think so.. i saw an video report about him and Aaron where he said that the cooperation between them and Paypal were good.. that could be meaning that he could extract that money out of the account.. and yeah i dunno if het was an millionaire to begin with i dunno about him in that regard, he doesnt strike me as an millionair so i say he is not.. and making all those prototypes, paying the artists, and so many other vendors cost money.. big money.. so yeah he had the money out of the paypal account id say..

and i would like to see an picture of kevin his paypal account with that large sum of money where it says frozen.. that is evidence! all we have is assumptions.

those are the same kind of 'assumptions' as he maded everybody think that he had the license to begin with and everything was 'good'.

well time will tell but my guts say this story will get an extra tail.

Mainly the 180 day window with PayPal. I think a good amount of pre-order folks are getting positive responses from their credit card company's now. But those that paid by check or direct bank transfer are having a tougher time.

me too... but even if they aren't, it shouldn't be a herculean task to tally up how much he's got and how much he owes... i'd wager he has a solid handle on how much each buyer has paid as well...

Exactly, the ones with the inside info got their refunds and screw everyone else.
Typical hurray for me and screw you attitude that let this sham continue unabated.
I am sure some of the people that sold their spots knew about it and palmed their spots off on unsuspecting suckers.
I have never been a fan of this preorder BS and it was only a matter of time before something like this went down.
When you say "shut up and take my money" sooner than later someone will step up and do just that.

I am still unclear why anyone would pay for any machine in this manner.

I have had dealers tell me that they will shave off another $200 or so if I pay by bank transfer or check. On a $6,000+ machine I am not paying with anything other than American Express. My peace of mind is worth much more than $200.

So, obviously nobody has gotten a direct response from Kevin in the last 3 days, correct? Nobody has heard another word from him?

Anyone hear anything new about when we can expect PBN to do a follow-up article with Kevin's response? I hope PBN is making Kevin answer the difficult questions as far as how much money is left and how is it possible for you to promise "full refunds" when clearly a significant amount of money has been spent to date.

you answered your own question... to some, the $200 bucks is worth more than the peace of mind...

i'm in the same boat as you though...

If Predator was manufactured and SkitB had success and released future titles that were great we would all be appreciative of the folks that took a big risk w/ Predator and got SkitB started. Were some of the folks naive? Possibly, but we need these types of folks to aid with innovation.

I don't know anyone personally who has money in this but I hope they get their money back and they can buy me a beer and we can look back and laugh at it.

That's funny.

I suspect that Kevin needed the deposits for Experts of Dangerous to refund the then failed Predator.

Kind of like another boutique manufacturer needed deposits for the second game in order to complete and ship the first.

Were there actually people that ordered Experts of Dangerous?

Another day......same bs, now the finger pointing is directed at the AG for this going down.
Really? I don't think AG has over $750k of your money tied up do they, although I know someone that does.

Still no one stating "i received my full refund!"

Let me guess he'll start issuing them in .....two weeks. Reminds me of the movie "The Money Pit" with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long "two weeks"

I'm no expert...but that's a dangerous question...

Maybe by accident.

I don't know. I don't remember hearing that the deposits had started.

It didn't interest me, so I did not follow it.

I absolutely agree with this. I hope Kevin had/has the sense to retain legal counsel. I do expect that he will make refunds. As to whether they will be 100% remains to be seen. Regardless of what percentage of refunds will be made, there does need to be oversight.

Kevin by now has probably hired a criminal attorney for the federal case.... and maybe a bankruptcy attorney too.

Both attorneys have probably told him to sit tight:

Stop sending out crazy emails, and don't send out any refunds until the judgments have been rendered.

Given his track record, he's probably furiously Googling and catching up on Law & Order episodes in order to represent himself.

Regarding Kevin refunding people right now... how the heck is he supposed to know who has initiated chargebacks already, and who has not? Especially with paypal between him and the banks? If he refunds someone now who has just started a chargeback, or if some ass starts a chargeback AFTER getting a refund, that person will likely get paid twice and the funds run dry before everyone is taken care of. It's not practical to assume everyone who has started a chargeback will inform Kevin, nor is it practical to expect Kevin to keep all that information straight even if they did. The banks and/or Paypal will likely send notices to Kevin, but again, who expects him to actually keep track properly, after his prior incompetence?

I have a feeling no one is getting refunded for a good while. This is not any defense of Kevin or anything like that, just a neutral observation based on the current clusterfudge situation right now.

lol

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Ditto,I went through my CC company (MasterCard)
They were great,said I have a good dispute.
Once he said he would issue full refunds,that gave him 15 days to refund me.
If not,they will reimburse me. My CC company will go after PayPal and SkitB for the funds.

I paid in full April 30th,so you can go back a ways.
18 months on MC.
I urge you all to try your CC if you used one,PayPal sucks.

Did I miss something? What "federal case"? I have never heard anyone claim Kevin is being prosecuted or even sued by Fox (or anyone else). Only that they simply put enough pressure on him to make him realize he cannot go forward. That's all I've read.

AG emails claim that Fox has begun the process.

Addendum to my original post - this might be what everyone has to do - just dispute and recover your funds on your own. I can't see Kevin being able to process any refunds when each day there are more people filing chargebacks. Those who paid by bank or money transfer will have to be refunded by Kevin manually. Threats of civil suit will hopefully expedite that process if necessary. If not, there may be enough money involved to interest a federal prosecutor and get things moving in criminal court.

Can you post the AG email that stated that please? I'm curious to read it. And did they start the process for criminal prosecution or to go after monetary penalties?

I'm still very curious if there even is an official corporation set up for Skit-B. If so, who are listed as the owners? Who would be criminally liable here if there isn't? Just Kevin? What about Aaron Klumpp?

Not that anything about this entire mess is funny.... But that made me laugh!

On a side note, it might not be far from the truth.

This Kevin guy should wise-up and start dispersing funds. Now. It looks like buyers are getting their CC companies involved. They're not going to mess around and play footsie over thousands in cash that they've refunded to clients.

What a mess.

Things may stay mild till about Wednesday. Then if no one has recieved a refund..........let the dogs out and pursue!

Got out and got my deposit back after TPF last year. Left this mess behind long ago.

And it is 80 degrees and sunny here today. Glorious.

Seems like that opportunity has passed, but I am just speculating.

Maybe Kevin will get Sam Waterston as the charging DA