(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#5851 4 years ago

BTW. I enjoyed the coast (even after reading the WordPress piece and, yes getting upset). Then my family and I got to go to the Kauai Island Brewing Company, meet the brewer, drink some of his tasty brew, and play some games with him.

If anyone was worried.

#5852 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I'm pretty sure Kevin will issue refunds ... you simply get a refund back which I'm sure Kevin is working out right now.

Everyone on Pinside is really hoping things work out exactly as you say, but I have to wonder how you can feel so sure that Kevin will be issuing full refunds given everything that has happened here.

If you're planning to front Kevin the money to cover the gap between remaining funds and what's owed to the buyers, you'll be an instant Pinside hero! Short of that, how the hell can you be sure of anything based solely on Kevin's statements? To quote Phil Collins, "it's all been a pack of lies."

#5853 4 years ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

BTW. I enjoyed the coast (even after reading the WordPress piece and, yes getting upset). Then my family and I got to go to the Kauai Island Brewing Company, meet the brewer, drink some of his tasty brew, and play some games with him.
If anyone was worried.

Na Pali Coast is one of the most beautiful places in the world... lots of sharks...but worth taking a swim if you get a chance. That mountainous coastline crashing into the Pacific... a slice of heaven on earth.

Enjoy it!

#5854 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Na Pali Coast is one of the most beautiful places in the world... lots of sharks...but worth taking a swim if you get a chance. That mountainous coastline crashing into the Pacific... a slice of heaven on earth.
Enjoy it!

Thank you! It was a great day! I don't swim, I drown, but my fiancée and brother-in-law hopped in to snorkel to get a beautiful view of a few manaray, and hear a whale. Wish I'd been in to hear the whale!

Drank beer with the rest of my family and enjoyed the view.

#5855 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

That's like saying a beer is a gateway drug to heroin. Don't forget the part where Kevin collected a million dollars of other people's money.

I wasn't trying to compare the two, as they are completely different. What I was (poorly, and drunkardly) trying to say last night is that I don't believe Kevin set out to scam Pinsiders out of there money - originally. My opinion (and it's only that), is the he had good intentions from the start and perhaps believed he could make 250 pins under 'fair use', or that nobody would care if he didn't get an official license.

Yes, that was a very stupid assumption, especially for a true business. And at the point Keven *knew* he had license issues and decided to lie ...that's when it crosses over to 'scam' territory. But I doubt he started all this with malicious intent.

#5856 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Everyone on Pinside is really hoping things work out exactly as you say, but I have to wonder how you can feel so sure that Kevin will be issuing full refunds given everything that has happened here.
If you're planning to front Kevin the money to cover the gap between remaining funds and what's owed to the buyers, you'll be an instant Pinside hero! Short of that, how the hell can you be sure of anything based solely on Kevin's statements? To quote Phil Collins, "it's all been a pack of lies."

You're right actually. I can't guarantee Kevin will be smart enough to give refunds, I simply can't. This can "all be a pack of lies". No one knows. No one knows what will happen in a week or even two weeks from now. All I know is that I've learnt quickly in life that not having a positive mind frame while going through the something like this is VERY bad for your health. Been scammed before where my money was simply gone and never to be seen again. I got very sick during that time. So taking a different approach has helped so far not to go into depression or get sick.

In my mind I am giving this 2 weeks max since the formal email of Kevin stating he will issue refunds. He refunds me and then this wasn't a "scam" issue, but simply an issue of him not promising me a Predator pinball. I have my own options on how to proceed with this which has already been mentioned here. I know what needs to be done if there's no refund, but before I go down that road I'll wait it out a little longer. I waited this long, I can wait 2 more weeks.

#5857 4 years ago
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:

I was extremely pissed at the means in which they handled the situation. 'We draw up the simple yes/no question about a run of Predator pinball machines, asking for a confirmation of official licensed merchandise status, AND ATTACHED A PICTURE OF THE GAME. Sent.' Deep breath. Why the f--- did y'all send a picture of the machine?!!!!! Ya tipped off Fox Bryce and made a point to prove infringement. When what you probably should have done was play this project down for the good of those involved, while getting the answer you wanted, and then share that answer with the rest of the pre-predator-payers. As a group of 250 we could have taken this info to Kevin and demanded our refunds. This crusade of the anonymous turned selfish pretty quick. All but 1 are out, and that person has been waiting on a refund since November. Tried to take revenge and blow up the project after you tried to save your own arses.

Someone please tell me I'm off base, so I don't hold a grudge. PLEASE.

it's apparently an unpopular viewpoint, but i know of several who completely agree with you.

17
#5858 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

What's the point of the other website other than showboating and attention whoring? The only people going to it are from Pinside. Also, like the other guy said. If this guy is really in trouble, he'd be an idiot to respond to any of the baiting or "open letters".

The Wordpress site is completely unnecessary and is over the top of what needed to be done. The Pinballnews article was all that was needed to bring this to light. Martin has been a well respected and trusted member of the pinball community for years and I think nearly all of us would trust that source on its own merits vs. needing a second website setup that attacks Kevin on a much more personal level.

I'm also not sure why the anonymous group decided to help Fox gather data and contact them on numerous occasions to follow up? Once I got the information I needed from Fox I would have played dumb and then gone to Martin with the info vs. sending Fox pictures, alerting them to Pinside and giving them all the info necessary to build a lawsuit against Skit-B. Tipping off Fox and their lawyers is only going to make it more difficult for people to get their money back. They essentially poked the proverbial hornets nest and instead of getting the f*ck out and warning others decided to stick around and help. If Fox decides to sue Kevin that would likely put a freeze on the monies involved while the case is proceeding. It seems like the anonymous group chose Fox over thinking about the well being and financial implications their actions would have on fellow hobbyists in the pinball community. Yes, Skit-B lied on many numerous occasions, had terrible communication and deserved to have someone look into the license situation which has been super sketchy all along. I just don't agree with the way it was all handled once the anonymous group found out.

#5859 4 years ago

Well holy crap! I thought I had managed to keep somewhat up to date on this thread while on vacay, but I think I just found out the Wordpress came out 2 days ago.

I don't know why, but I decided to do a thread search on the word 'November'. I said I didn't want to sleuth out who the anonymous were (I also said I'd try to go back to sleep), but I thought I'd recalled someone specifically stating that they'd been waiting since November for a refund. I didn't find that statement, but found the Wordpress mentioned.

I guess I really have adapted to island time.

#5860 4 years ago

Sorry to see how this has played out. I agree, the follow-up posting from the "AG" is childish taunting, serves no purpose.

If Kevin has half a brain (no evidence of this) he will never ever say another thing publically about Skit B. If he is talking to a lawyer, it should be a bankruptcy lawyer at his point. Anything else is wasting the pre-buyers money. And a good bankruptcy lawyer would *not* advise him to issue refunds. Let the court sort out distribution of whatever is left over.

He files Chap 7, pre-buyers are listed as unsecured creditors (along with any potential outstanding claim by Fox) and whatever is left over gets distributed by the Trustee. Now - pre-buyers can always claim the debt exists as a result of fraud - which means it can't be discharged. But is it worth it to lawyer up and fight that? I don't know.

Best hope is that the Feds decide it's worth pursuing and get him in court (again, if this happens, no reason to hire a high-priced lawyer. You can't win in a trial against the Feds....). Feds enter a restitution order for payment in full to everybody. They *will* hound him for the rest of his life, and you get a check for 10 bucks or so every month for the next XX years.

The problem with that hope is that nobody (other than Kevin) will ever know the existence of a Fed investigation and/or plea negotiation. And it will take literally 2+ years to come to light. You could walk into the FBI today, confess to a white collar crime, and it could be months and months before they even call you again to have a follow-up interview. They move at their own pace.

I really hope he is stupid enough to start sending money out to the pre-buyers. But I'm not holding my breath.

#5861 4 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

Sorry to see how this has played out. I agree, the follow-up posting from the "AG" is childish taunting, serves no purpose.

I think clearly the Wordpress posting was done by a single individual of the "anonymous group". I doubt the whole group collaborated on that. Regardless of how unnecessary it is or was, I guess if I had been duped for a few years with Kevin holding my money and lying, I would be angry too. It is clearly someone venting their own frustration and wanting Kevin to get what he deserves. I guess I can't blame them for that.

22
#5862 4 years ago

I for one am glad to see the tide turn on AG....that's some straight up narc shit. The language of it is so flowery and nauseating; I found it to be entirely self serving from the start. Why all the fluff? Why all the trumped up self congratulatory "insider" garbage? "We sat on this shit for weeks. It hurt. It really did." Well FU then! Good!

It's clear that the interests of "the people" are the last of their concerns; the way their dumb rainbow blog is put together (which btw is written in the style of an adderall addict teen) is so desperate and sappy it's just pitiful. An "anonymous" entity that comes out of the gate in this manner can't stay anonymous; soon they'll be out in the open begging everyone for some more praise, or even worse they're gonna try and sell us something. All they did was get through to a guy on the phone, right? Big effin deal! So SHARE WHAT YA LEARNED; don't just circle jerk over your little nerd secret for a few weeks until you can whip up this attention-grab wordpress tripe! Ugh! AG is so irritating that I find myself being less mad at Kevin, which is saying a lot.

Anonymous Group. You are not detectives. You are not journalists. GTFO with this now, because you are driving a spike into ANY CHANCE these people have of getting their money back. Grow up; no one is impressed with your childish "insider" nonsense; you shot yourselves in the foot, layin' it on too thick. Cary C, I'm on your side; glad you enjoyed the coast my friend

-1
#5863 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

It is clearly someone with no skin in the game venting their own frustration and attention whoring

FTFY

#5864 4 years ago

I hope you guys get your money back, but this thread is like the movie Groundhog day. Same things being posted that were posted on page 107, and 97 before it.

#5865 4 years ago

Curtis_Playfield, you should start your own Blog, I like your style!!

Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

All they did was get through to a guy on the phone, right?

BTW, anyone else (besides the Mighty Anonymous) tried to contact Mr Bryce Coughlin, "senior IP counsel for Fox Intellectual Property"? No answer yet to my LinkedIn message.
(to be fair, my professional profile looks great but of dubious interest for Fox Intellectual property lawyers!).

I am surprise no one else tried. When re-reading the Pinball News article, I realized Martin wrote:

But it was strengthened further in January 2015 when we were made privy to a phone call between our anonymous correspondent and the Senior Counsel for IP at Fox Entertainment Group.

I see no mention of a direct confirmation with Mr Bryce Coughlin. Did he contact him himself? Got an answer??

#5866 4 years ago
Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:

"We sat on this shit for weeks. It hurt. It really did."

correction according to the wordpress website 3+ months. A good deed that was communicated poorly.

" Kevin’s dancing is what delayed Martin from publishing for 3+ months. Kevin ALWAYS kept things appearing hopeful / fixable / active. Martin didn’t want to sink the ship, and tried his best to coach Kevin toward solutions. That burned up a lot of time. We feel bad for poor Martin, who is professionally obligated to provide an equal platform for Kevin to speak (in a spirit of fairness of the press). We encourage Martin to stay strong with the “courtroom” type verifications that he had in place for us. We had to get Martin to the level of actual phone conversations with Fox in order to verify our claims. We expect the same will be required of Kevin. "

11
#5867 4 years ago

I have been largely staying out of this, but wanted to say that the saddest part to me is the AG has struck the real divide in the community and now makes me question the trust of many (which is sad).

I can deal with the fact that I may appear as an ass for being an over passionate fanboy of the game (I previously appologized a couple thousand posts back to anyone I impacted with my over forceful positive thought on the project). I can deal with the loss of getting a game I wanted so long. I can deal with the potential loss of my money.

I really dislike the violated trust by AG staying annonymous and leaving the lingering question of whom they are and whom you can really talk to as a real person and build a real life relationship with.

I wish they would just come out with it and own up to it. I know some people that are much smarter than I are actively trying to detrmine whom they are and hope it all comes out at some point, just so I can better know whom, to invest in relationships and whom to avoid.

#5868 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I can deal with the fact that I may appear as an ass

No argument.

But I do respect that you always sign your posts with your real name. Sometimes I wish you didn't.

#5869 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

BTW, anyone else (besides the Mighty Anonymous) tried to contact Mr Bryce Coughlin, "senior IP counsel for Fox Intellectual Property"? No answer yet to my LinkedIn message.

I sincerely hope that no one is trying to contact Fox at this point! We already know what we need to know. Just let sleeping dogs lie.... The more messages Fox legal gets regarding this the more likely they are to pursue Skit-B for infringement which wouldn't be a good thing for those with money still invested. Best to keep the lawyers out of this if possible!

#5870 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I wish they would just come out with it and own up to it. I know some people that are much smarter than I are actively trying to detrmine whom they are and hope it all comes out at some point, just so I can better know whom, to invest in relationships and whom to avoid.

I'm sure someone on the inside is in the works of creating another wordpress site to unmask the Anonymous Group.

https://unmaskingAG.wordpress.com/

no... sadly that's not a real site...

#5871 4 years ago

Reading this thread is like reading a script for pro wrestling with pinball fanatics =)

12
#5872 4 years ago

probably an unpopular opinion, however...

keep in mind that kevin prompted the follow up response from the "ag" by his wording of his refund letters and mention of "real story" coming out in pbn in a few days... if kevin had merely send emails saying "the project is dead and i'm refunding your money", i'd make a (small) wager that the follow up post would not have happened...

i have no clue of their motivations, nor do i care... but after kevin had full chance to respond to martin's original article, and then the follow up "first post" from the "ag", he still seems to be trying to play the victim card... i know i would have followed up with a blog entry very similar to theirs...

will they get the answers to the questions they posed? if kevin is getting good legal advice, likely not... but i can certainly understand why the post was made...

let's not forget the lessons that "we" learned over the past few weeks so quickly...

29
#5873 4 years ago

I no longer care what the AG or Kevin are saying.

Let me know when the 200 customers have the money back in their bank accounts.

17
#5874 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Hang it up with the thumbs Rarehero and go to bed....feel sorry for you.

1. Don't take it so seriously. Downvotes mean "disagree".
2. Don't be a hypocrite. You downvote plenty in this thread.
3. Multiple people downvote you. Why single me out?
4. I can answer 3. You prefer to find a scapegoat than blame the responsible party. If you don't like your downvotes, look in the mirror.

-19
#5875 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have been largely staying out of this, but wanted to say that the saddest part to me is the AG has struck the real divide in the community and now makes me question the trust of many (which is sad).
I can deal with the fact that I may appear as an ass for being an over passionate fanboy of the game (I previously appologized a couple thousand posts back to anyone I impacted with my over forceful positive thought on the project). I can deal with the loss of getting a game I wanted so long. I can deal with the potential loss of my money.
I really dislike the violated trust by AG staying annonymous and leaving the lingering question of whom they are and whom you can really talk to as a real person and build a real life relationship with.
I wish they would just come out with it and own up to it. I know some people that are much smarter than I are actively trying to detrmine whom they are and hope it all comes out at some point, just so I can better know whom, to invest in relationships and whom to avoid.

You are such a tosser. The saddest part to you of people getting bilked out of thousands of dollars is the whistleblowers who wouldn't let it drag out any longer? Unreal.

#5876 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I sincerely hope that no one is trying to contact Fox at this point!

I sincerely hope Martin Ayub (Pinball News) tried to contact Fox (Bryce) himself before publishing the story.

#5877 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I sincerely hope Martin Ayub (Pinball News) tried to contact Fox (Bryce) himself before publishing the story.

Absolutely! Martin needed to verify the source for himself vs. taking AG's word for it. Now that the story is out however it isn't necessary for a bunch of us to try to contact Bryce via email, phone, Linked In, etc. as that will only bring unnecessary attention to the matter. It's already a complicated matter and it will only get worse if Fox legal decides to pursue it.

#5878 4 years ago

well, they snipped the 'letter to Kevin', though it's unclear if this was because "sorry for stepping over a line" or "Kevin is a delicate flower that cannot be disturbed, or he may screw up refunds. If that is what is believed, then OK, we sure the hell don’t want to appear to disturb that zen."

i can sure see the point of whoever said that site looks like it was written by someone on amphetamines

https://predatorpinball.wordpress.com/

12
#5879 4 years ago

ALL that matters now is refunds...and we have to wait a bit to see what happens.

#5880 4 years ago

It looks like the one who wrote the wordpress site is someone other than the one who wrote the emails.

Or it was a collaboration.

#5881 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Absolutely! Martin needed to verify the source for himself vs. taking AG's word for it. Now that the story is out however it isn't necessary for a bunch of us to try to contact Bryce via email, phone, Linked In, etc. as that will only bring unnecessary attention to the matter. It's already a complicated matter and it will only get worse if Fox legal decides to pursue it.

I thought Martin heard the recorded phone call to Fox's lead attorney.

There's a lot of chatter about who's culpable, who fanned the flames or who has hidden agendas. I myself initially questioned why some people didn't step up sooner. But let's please not lose sight of the real issue at hand. Kevin has nearly 1 million of pinsiders money and he needs to refund it pronto. Once pinsiders have their money back we can then debate who else was at fault and what the real story was. For now though refunds are all that matter.

#5882 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

ALL that matters now is refunds...and we have to wait a bit to see what happens.

If he doesn't make good on the refunds, he is going to have some major problems.

#5883 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

ALL that matters now is refunds...and we have to wait a bit to see what happens.

Beat me to it

#5884 4 years ago

Right now he has to figure how much money he has on hand...how much, if any, is still in PayPal. If still in PayPal, he has to get that unfrozen. Probably just better if he had all the money and could issue checks. Still, sooner would be better...

-1
#5885 4 years ago

In regards to refunds I have to believe kevin is under attorney guidance at this point. If I put myself in his shoes and had the money to refund pretty sure I'd be sending out something to someone just as a show of goodwill. Unfortunately the continued silence and delay to issuing refunds even to one person tells me he either has no money (frozen) or an attorney has advised him to not issue anything yet.

Further thought...if the funds were frozen I'd be taking screen shots of the paypal balance or screen that shows frozen status. Anything to shed some light on the delay. The fact there's silence still again says to me attorney.

#5886 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Right now he has to figure how much money he has on hand...how much, if any, is still in PayPal. If still in PayPal, he has to get that unfrozen. Probably just better if he had all the money and could issue checks. Still, sooner would be better...

Exactly. Hopefully his recent email was truthful in the sense that he's moving his ass to give refunds.

15
#5887 4 years ago

Do you guys honestly think Martin just took AG's word for it and ran with the story? I find that highly unlikely. He doesn't strike me as the kind of journalist would would risk his reputation by publishing a story without first verifying the facts.

#5888 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Unfortunately the continued silence and delay to issuing refunds even to one person tells me he either has no money (frozen) or an attorney has advised him to not issue anything yet.

...and he's got to work out if people are getting total refunds or just divvied up from the monies left. And then work out the % as people have different amounts in...

#5889 4 years ago

I hope he is not issuing refunds like he was tackling anwering everyones emails last week.

-1
#5890 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I think clearly the Wordpress posting was done by a single individual of the "anonymous group". I doubt the whole group collaborated on that.

This individual sure says "We" an awful lot though.

Edit : I counted, about 90 times.

#5891 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I think clearly the Wordpress posting was done by a single individual of the "anonymous group". I doubt the whole group collaborated on that.

Pretty sure at least two people were involved, if not more. One of them being the one who wrote the emails.

14
#5892 4 years ago

I'm hoping for their sake the AG just stays anonymous, too many butthurt people plan on turning on them like a bunch of jackals.

#5893 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...and he's got to work out if people are getting total refunds or just divvied up from the monies left. And then work out the % as people have different amounts in...

About an hours worth of work in Excel. Not days.

#5894 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Do you guys honestly think Martin just took AG's word for it and ran with the story? I find that highly unlikely. He doesn't strike me as the kind of journalist would would risk his reputation by publishing a story without first verifying the facts.

Agreed, but check the way the article is written. I see no mention of a direct conversion or email exchange between him and Mr. Bryce Coughlin.

#5895 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

About an hours worth of work in Excel. Not days.

Yes, that part. Not sure what it will take to "unfreeze" PayPal...if that's the case...

#5896 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

I thought Martin heard the recorded phone call to Fox's lead attorney.

Quoted from jlm33:

I see no mention of a direct conversion or email exchange

I heard Brian Williams rapping on You tube.

#5897 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...and he's got to work out if people are getting total refunds or just divvied up from the monies left. And then work out the % as people have different amounts in...

On top of all of this, how does Kevin sort out who gets what, AND HOW, when he must have dozens of credit card disputes in his inbox too. I don't know how all of it works, but could he potentially have to worry about "double refunding" if he issues refunds shortly to everyone and then any of the credit card disputes try to debit too. I'm sure there is some way to flag this through paypal or the CC companies, but what a mess (of his own making).

Scott

#5898 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

There's a lot of chatter about who's culpable, who fanned the flames or who has hidden agendas. I myself initially questioned why some people didn't step up sooner. But let's please not lose sight of the real issue at hand. Kevin has nearly 1 million of pinsiders money and he needs to refund it pronto. Once pinsiders have their money back we can then debate who else was at fault and what the real story was. For now though refunds are all that matter.

yes, which is why i made my last post, even though it might not be popular... people need to focus on kevin (and kevin only), and they need to keep that focus, and they need to keep hounding him for their money AND keep following up any other avenues they might have (chargebacks)...

for WAY too long, people lost their focus and blamed "others" for kevin not producing machines, and so on... i would HOPE that the lesson of "focus on the person who f'd you, and stop trying to make excuses for him" has sunk in...

Quoted from YKpinballer:

I'm hoping for their sake the AG just stays anonymous, too many butthurt people plan on turning on them like a bunch of jackals.

i do too... as it seems like many still would like to find a place to place the "blame" anywhere except for where it belongs...

#5899 4 years ago
Quoted from toyboy6:

On top of all of this, how does Kevin sort out who gets what, AND HOW, when he must have dozens of credit card disputes in his inbox too. I don't know how all of it works, but could he potentially have to worry about "double refunding" if he issues refunds shortly to everyone and then any of the credit card disputes try to debit too. I'm sure there is some way to flag this through paypal or the CC companies, but what a mess (of his own making).
Scott

I sent him some VERY clear instructions with ALL the details on how to accurately refund me. Stilll nothing. He needs to get his finger out his bum hole and get on it as a priority over breathing.

#5900 4 years ago

Yeah I found the wordpress to be over the line. I get the anger when you have this amount of money tied up but lets not forget there is a person on the other side, and no doubt he has legal telling him what he can and can not do. Once you send out money its done - and you might find out that it was better do do x-y-z and then send out money. The advice I have gotten in the past on money problems is stay silent - produce a plan and then execute. Just don't start saying or doing stuff prior until you know the end game.

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