Hang it up with the thumbs Rarehero and go to bed....feel sorry for you.

I know there is this big desire for a mea culpa from Kevin, but with the potential for litigation both from Fox and the potential of criminal charges, I would not expect him to do that in a public statement at this point. Get a lawyer, refund the money, get an agreement with Fox then spill the beans on how bad he screwed up, but good decisions have not been a hallmark of his operations.

I just caught up on the last 72hrs. Man. I read to slow and work to much to keep up to speed on this thread.

So.. What's a reasonable definition of the word reasonable...

I hope money returns to people soon. Keep up the good fight

I agree for the most part. Let it go. They are too upset with Kevin's failure to admit complete fault. They want a pure unadulterated mea culpa. Not going to happen. Just leave it alone at this point.

Says the only guy on Pinside to give this post a thumbs down:

You disagree that he's a crook?

I just tried to write back to Mr. X aka "Greg Wells" ([email protected]) to let him know that I think they went too far with the 2nd letter before anything has happened.

Email bounced back. The account has been deleted.

Maybe Roger Sharpe will hop on this opportunity in the near future as the point of contact for individuals who want to manufacture homebrew licensed games.

Agreed. He barely communicated when thing were going good- hardly expect him to suddenly change his stripes now.

Also, folks WANT his (truthful) side of this, I doubt we'll see anything CLOSE to the real story. Kevin just has zero upside in providing it and FAR more downside with potential litigation.

I'd expect a weepy account of a brave, yet naive pinhead who wanted to bring affordable pinball to the people. A man whose ONLY goal was building a great machine and someone who put his desire to serve his customers over perhaps crossing all the 't's"and dotting all the :i's" when it came to the bureaucratic-side of building a licensed theme.... yaadda yadda yadda

In the end, he will admit nothing, but will try to make enough restitution so that people will go away and not sue him.

And it would be one of the few smart moves he's made.

I agree. With the very real possibility of litigation he may already be in touch with an attorney, and if so, and assuming that attorney doesn't happen to work for Skit, B, and Associates, that attorney has a bullhorn to Kevin's ear, shouting: STFU! You will likely hear the bare minimum in terms of apologies, and mostly it will be information about unwinding the remaining deposit money.

I also agree the latest demand of the anon group is over the top and bordering on silly. Kevin's rep is as trashed as it can get. You can run over a dead cat as many times as you like, but it don't get no deader. Threatening to "keep calling him a liar" and challenging him to "Prove them wrong" unfortunately does seem to validate some claims that they were more interested in winning the argument than in the welfare of fellow customers. Pinball players just in it for the drama? Well I never!

Totally agree, they are spiking the football now. While I take little issue with what they did (I think they saved the situation from getting much worse personally) they should leave the victory lapping on the playfield.

I mentioned this earlier but it is buried now. We will all find out who the secret group is comprised of soon enough if there really is a lawsuit brought by Fox. Remember, Fox interviewed them and knows who they are. They may be mentioned in the petition itself, deposed in the lawsuit, or gleaned through discovery. Regardless, Kevin knows who they are you can darn well bet...he refunded them and Fox likely mentioned them in the threats/discussions/negotiations or whatever you want to call it.

Regarding Kevin, I figured his next move would be to come out and say he had a license issued by a roug fox employee or former employee that he learned was not valid...a claim that he himself was fooled by a third party. This would fall flat on many, but is a way he can shirk responsibility to the public, refund the money he has left and claim to be the one who was misled...

I agree, let it Mother F ing go for crying out loud.

WTF, where is the kindergarten teacher to round up the children.

Return what's left and give it a rest. It's over.

Also, jail is just a 9-1-1 phone call away.

Too bad it was gmail, would have been interesting to get the ip address.

Trying to think this one through, and I am not so sure that I see a scenario where these people would be exposed just because Fox brings a lawsuit.

A Fox attorney may have interviewed them, but what personal information do they have that any other Predator owner wouldn't have?

The only major thing that they discovered was that Kevin didn't have a license from Fox for Predator. How did they find that out? By talking to a Fox attorney!

So I don't see them being a witness anymore than any other owner.

Question: "Isn't it true that you found out Kevin was making Predator Pinball without a license?"

Answer: "Yes".

Question: "How did you determine that?"

Answer: "You told me!"

Of course I know what you are saying. They already have these particular people's info etc., so they make the obvious choice as witnesses who are likely to cooperate.

ok.. the follow up letter is just silly ... wtf

You may have just given him a good idea!

I know exceedingly little about California law, but I could see the time period of when Fox learned of the infringement being meaningful for prescription type issues...they would use the date of the phone call rather than a 2011 date (granted, I'm sure it would be some sort of continuing infringement so it may not matter but Fox may state the date they became aware of the matter in the petition if it is a detailed filing).

Kevin's counsel would surely get all their data in boilerplate discovery (who all have you spoken with regarding this matter, who all have you interviewed, when did you interview them, etc.).

I know we aren't supposed to criticize the moderators, and I totally agree with your message that cool heads should prevail, but I just wish you'd cool it with the potty-mouthed blue language there, buddy!

Ha! I really don't like criticizing someone's posts, but this is ludicrous. If he lied to any buyer about any aspect that had an impact on whether the buyer may elect to withdraw his/her money, from the buyer's perspective, regardless if the buyer's analysis may have been incorrect about that aspect, that's a scam. Period.

By the way, I don't believe Madoff hid either.

I haven't read every post in this nuclear (maybe even nucular!) thread but with all the admonishing of vendors and potential vendors... I have not seen anybody mention the "other" kid who was in the basement?

Seems like he got of scott free or ?

FaithPlus1.jpg

It's getting easier and easier to come up with pretty good ideas who some of these guys are anyway.

They have their own agenda, which was to expose Kevin as a liar. That's been done. Apparently that wasn't enough, now they won't be satisfied until he comes out and says publicly everything they want to hear.

Personally, I don't give a shit what Kevin says anymore. I know he's a liar. What he says is largely irrelevant. I want to see people (including me) get their money back. That's my concern.

If ya don't have the license,
to develop a pinball machine,
Who ya gonna call?
Roger Sharpe!
(or shoulda!)

Although this might have been a tiny slam at me, I gave you a thumbs-up! Because what you said is true.

If I had to go to his door, I would take my light saber with me to deflect bullets! And stand behind Big Bubba when HE knocks on the door.

People keep saying they have a good idea who at least some of the anonymous group and Mr. X is. Anyone want to share? I honestly have no clue. A PM is fine (and in fact preferred).

So much to read I must have missed it. Was there an email from Kevin with him actually admitting that predator is not happening? Obviously we all no it's not but I didn't catch the part in where he personally admitted it.

It is probably easier to find it here (last post):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-updates/page/2

Brad

I couldn't agree more.

I thought the reason you guys are "anonymous" is to not to focus on "us" but Kevin (per a quote from your website - see below). Yet, you keep drawing pinsiders to YOUR website. LMAO. Just announce who you guys are already and take your curtain call. Better yet, wait until April 1st for the big reveal. Then the community can guess if you guys were really anonymous or is it an April Fools joke. My request is to create a video though. I'm tired of reading.

Now let us get back to helping our friends get refunds. You know, the ones you and Martin (whom I respect but made poor decisions on this one) decided to leave hanging for 3 months before the news story could be released. While the clock ticked on cc and paypal refund limits. I *sincerely* do applaud the good deed, I *deplore* your choice in communications.

PS - Greg I'm picking up a bar of soap, go ahead and give me that thumbs down. I'm in the ready position for you and your group.

Quote from wordpress site:

"For now, anyway. With the inevitable drama that comes with the collapse of a once-adored pinball project, the focus on what matters could not be clouded or jeopardized by those who would most certainly make it all about us. This can never be a battle over motivations or biases. So we can’t allow it to become one. We’re not going to be “the guys who killed Predator” for some. Because we aren’t. Kevin Kulek killed Predator. By chopping off the ability to focus on “us” at this time, it allows the actual issue – the story we unearthed – to shine all on its own.

Aurich.

I almost started a new thread...but saw that I could be blowing my controversial drunk thoughts out of proportion.

A few disclaimers I'd like to say before stating my argument:

Over time I, like many, have come to respect Aurich - his posts are eloquent and usually represent my position. I *LOVE* his artwork, and proudly display his Helen and ST translights. ...and therein lies my conundrum.

Those works..IMHO.. border on copyright infringement. ...hmmm...

Aurich never lied. He admitted as much. I knew what I was buying. I'm glad to have them.

But was a pattern set? A precedent?

Do other mods and projects do the same? I'm not going to defend Keven (have no stake in the game - detest lairs).

But I'm guessing in the beginning Kevin just vastly underestimated the level of copyright infringement he was doing. Fair use. He wasn't starting off being malicious. Things snowballed. He's swimming on a sea of grey area. ...so he tells everyone everything is OK and does his best to build those damn 'games'.

...think about it.

EDIT: But at the point he knew - and lied. That's where he went off the deep end...deserves what is coming to him.

For what it's worth, it is not that difficult to find a way to contact Bryce Coughlin (I first checked the guy was for real!). I sent a message to him to ask for a confirmation. That was yesterday (Tuesday, May 24... it's already Wednesday morning here!). Waiting for an answer. I will keep you posted if he responds.

Anyone else did the same? Got lucky?

Any takers on if Skit-B will be at TPF this weekend? J/K in case anyone think I'm serious..

Let me give you a different perspective: I currently think it is a scam. But my mind would change if I receive a refund...

(still a scam to Fox, sure. But I would not feel scammed. Semantics)

That's like saying a beer is a gateway drug to heroin. Don't forget the part where Kevin collected a million dollars of other people's money. 

Good advice Gambit, that is similar to the actions our anonamous friends took. Did you get out? You have not posted on Predator in a year. Figured I would see you here more often since you have machine #13 and were #5 in the order line.

Looks like you are having better weather in Texas than we are here.

Exactly and it seems the more I read from the "anonymous", the more it seems like their only intent is to screw over people trying to get refunds. Look you want to get to the bottom of this wait for a reasonable amount of time for us to get our money until then, you are not helping. You've got your money so enough of this, it seems you're trying to push Fox along into suing Kevin into an oblivion before the real victims(us) get our money back. Fox as I see it wasn't harmed, no game was released.

I appreciate what you did to prove no license but this open letter is not helping.

Yes, anonymous group seems to have the intention to kill the project at all and now as well the refunds. Stop that ! That's my personal impression here.

Check this out....

http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/speakers/MythBusters/4552

$50K+ no surprise there, and you know Kevie paid what ever he wanted because he didn't "earn" the "free" money thrown at him. SOB

I think he will refund, I'm sure he has spoken to his lawyer and the advice was most likely pay these people back ASAP. I know for myself anyway legal action will follow lack of refund, I don't think Kevin wants to deal with all that as I doubt I'm the only one. I'm giving him till Friday.

Too bad he didn't "Bust" the Predator "Myth" while he was there

Looking at the last e-mail from him and reading what he supposedly said in a phone conversation with a customer about paying the money back in full and not having a business license, would a lawyer approve either of those communications? I just don't think so. As others have said, I think a lawyer is going to tell him to say nothing. If the money was there, I think they'd advise "don't say anything and refund the f'n money ASAP".

People on here who didn't receive their refunds think this whole operation was a scam. That's fair to say. But I'm pretty sure Kevin will issue refunds which is why I said this was never a scam to begin with.

It's very simple, you put a deposit down for something in pre-production. If that something is never produced regardless of the reason, you simply get a refund back which I'm sure Kevin is working out right now. How is that a scam? He's also a one man show, not a giant corporation that can refund you $50,000 in a heartbeat. It's very complicated in the back end which is why I give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Kevie busted it for us

I guess McDonald's are scammers as well?

Yes, I am sure this is a complicated mess. I am surprised there are still some out there who are willing to give the benefit of the doubt though given everything recently revealed!

I wish I hadn't gotten upset while off of the Napoli Coast with my family - really wish I wasn't clued into the anonymous' Wordpress via my freaking Facebook. Now, I wake up in the middle of the night after getting off the ocean and reading the Wordpress to see this thread has gone from 109 to 117. I'm far too frustrated (and tired) to wade through to see if what I'm currently thinking was said already.

Besides the fact they are as bloody verbose as Kevin, which was pretty damned annoying, I was extremely pissed at the means in which they handled the situation.

'We draw up the simple yes/no question about a run of Predator pinball machines, asking for a confirmation of official licensed merchandise status, AND ATTACHED A PICTURE OF THE GAME. Sent.'

Deep breath.

Why the f--- did y'all send a picture of the machine?!!!!! Ya tipped off Fox Bryce and made a point to prove infringement. When what you probably should have done was play this project down for the good of those involved, while getting the answer you wanted, and then share that answer with the rest of the pre-predator-payers. As a group of 250 we could have taken this info to Kevin and demanded our refunds.

This crusade of the anonymous turned selfish pretty quick. All but 1 are out, and that person has been waiting on a refund since November. Tried to take revenge and blow up the project after you tried to save your own arses.

I am not positive if it matters who the anonymous are. I'd almost wish to not find/figure out who they are. I lurk on Pinside more than I write, and most often Really appreciate those that post on this site. It will really bum me out to know their likenesses, and until I can reason otherwise, or get my damn money back (then drain this f'ing topic for good), I'm going to be pretty permanently disappointed with these individuals.

Maybe I'll get some sleep now, and find zen (plus a miraculous $3k in my account) tomorrow, with my last day on an island paradise.

Someone please tell me I'm off base, so I don't hold a grudge. PLEASE.

What's the point of the other website other than showboating and attention whoring? The only people going to it are from Pinside. Also, like the other guy said. If this guy is really in trouble, he'd be an idiot to respond to any of the baiting or "open letters".