It's amazing that of all the people who had these emails, not a single one decided to post. A simple disclaimer allowing me to make my own mind up regarding the validity would've been fine imo.

From Webster: Scam = a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

Did Kevin deceive his buyers by claiming that Predator was licensed in an attempt to receive pre-order money. Yes he did. Did he continue during the course of the project deceive his buyers and suppliers into thinking he had a license for Predator when in fact he did not? Yes he did.

SCAM....End of Story

for the record I paid in full and didn't get any of the extra stuff... not that it matters anymore...

Right, and Webster continues to say that "A scam is a a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people".

How did Kevin make money if he's refunding everyone?

NO SCAM....End of drama.

So clear.

Oh. Who got a refund today?

Remember this? Seems like ages ago. Wonder if they'll let Kevin finish them in prison??

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As quoted: There is not enough money to refund...

I just hope you get your refund....

Refund today? Who talked about getting a refund today?

From the lion's mouth:

"The sad truth of the matter is that we are forced to cancel the project and refund the money to everyone regardless if they still want a game or not. The refund process is expected to be swift and completed very soon. You all will start to see those balances reflecting in your accounts in a few short days.

-Kevin"

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Lol, done.

https://www.teepublic.com/show/165699-predatorgate?newly_uploaded=true

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Oh. I suppose there is every reason to believe him at this point.... He's pretty honest so far.....,

Even after plenty of evidence that he clearly didn't know WTF he was doing, Kevin still was given well beyond the benefit of the doubt on these forums.

The emails would have been scoffed at, like all rational concern has been the last few years.

It took them, Aaron's accounts and finally Martin's articles for people to take the issues seriously.

I've said this before but even without licensing issues this game would have trickled out at best, and run out of money long before all owners got their games.

No doubt! Hopefully the court uses the dictionary instead of the law!

If you believed him enough to put down a $4750 deposit, I guess you have no choice

You sick basturd!

Pretty much what will happen if he doesn't refund everyone .

so whose actually confirmed that ??

Why I waste my breath, I'll never know....That is NOT what Webster's says:

Full Definition of SCAM (NOUN)

: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>

Full Definition of SCAM (VERB)

1: deceive, defraud
2: to obtain (as money) by a scam

So my goodness, he fits all three> He committed a deceptive act, he deceived and he obtained money through deception. Doesn't matter that he 'may' give some portion of the money back....He obtained money via a SCAM and he SCAMMED pinsiders into sending him money under the pretense of a licensed game.

Was Bernie Madoff a scammer? He was forced to pay restitution once he was caught. So by virtue of some people getting refunds they weren't scammed by Mr. Madoff? C'mon.....

I don't know how much clearer I can make it...So I won't.

The law will totally understand your point of view, regardless of what Nintendo seems to say..

Holy sh**, I literally pissed my pants

Lets hope you don't continue sitting at the computer in piss pants. That would be uncomfortable.

Right, so now you're going to come up with some conspiracy theory saying that I'm Kevin right? Lol

Yup, I like making things up on my spare time.

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If you rob a bank but return the money before you are arrested, did you still rob a bank?

Someone start a new thread if there's any news, I can't take reading this back and forth bickering anymore.

The fact that some of you are still debating whether this was a scam or not, it shows that some of you are easy to swindle, you would have never seen it coming, no matter how many signs. Even now when it's official that Kevin lied through his teeth, some of you still sound like apologists.

The pinball community reminds me of that future setting in the movie Demolition Man. A criminally minded person who glorifies his behaviour as "punk rock" had a field day with some of you, stand-up for yourselves!

"but he's a nice guy, let him break the law with our money"

And the mods' silly zealotry over naughty words that are just synonyms for sex or feces is also like Demolition Man.

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No, no, it's not that. Maybe it's just you've never been to court. Webster won't be there.

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I'm just not sure what Nintendo hopes to gain by arguing the semantics of the word "scam". It comes off poorly. But hey, it's your rep. Carry on.

I can see you're definitely a role model on Pinside.

Wonder how Kev will split these up amongst all his Predator victims?

http://www.skitbpinball.com/#!store/c1cfx

I would have liked to read them to decide for myself if I wanted to "scoff" at them or not. I was not afforded that right and now I sit with no refund and 3 years waiting for this turd to come to a conclusion.

Ordered 1 with Paypal (funded by Amex) If my wife can drop $60 on t-shirts for a crummy B-52s concert, I feel entitled ......

Thanks Matt!

Ya, I really don't understand what he has to gain from this senseless bickering. Kevin shit the bed and hopefully everyone gets their money back.

I think those will be very popular at the Wicca conventions

because i needed a break from beating my head up against the wall, so you took over and bloodied your forehead for awhile...

I'm confused why there is still bickering going on.. I mean.. the facts have been revealed, right?

And by your definition how do you know if Kevin made any money off this scam? Youre saying he didn't scam any money because he/kevin is refunding people by his own words in a few days. I asked for a refund about 6 weeks ago. Still no money. Still no proof of all funds accounted for, just hollow statements by Kevin.

The guy absolutely deceived me, and as long as he is sitting on my money he scammed me. Was that his original intention? Imo no, but it is what happened. A court of law will prove that if it happens to go that route.

Don't read it then.

The OP should add a poll here. Of the folks who have money tied up in this how many are interested in pursuing legal action if 100% of their money is not refunded?

OR, a poll for what percentage of funds people think will be refunded of what is left? 50-60%? 60%-70%?

Because I'm just waiting for the first "refund" to gauge just how truly bad this is.

I hope he sells them all to recoup money invested in those.

I think he is having trouble with paypal releasing funds since im sure paypal has been bombarded with claims in the last 48 hours.

It's an elaborate diversion to allow Kevin more time to get out of town.

Oh! Well, okay then!

That may very well be true but I still do not believe there is any way that 100% of the people with money in this will get a 100% refund. No way. So then what happens? What percentage do you think folks will get? Will there be legal action? Nothing?

This was posted an eternity ago, so I'm thinking others have corrected you by now, but if not, http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506 Yes, you can go to PMITAFP for copying stuff illegally.

Kevin needs to do the right thing and pull that hat down over his face, cut 2 eyeholes in it and go get everyone there money back

That dude pretty much disappeared from this thread. No one's arguing with him here anymore, so why bring it back up?

Does no one who got in on this not live near this Kevin? If he lived here in Kentucky I would drive to his house and knock on his door and demand he give me the EXACT time frame of refunding and how much money is left in whatever account. Short of him calling the police, I would stay there making my demands. I'm not talking vigilante justice, I just mean calling on him and have him show me where the money is and get a grasp of how much is left. I would hound the SOB to death if he lived close to me here! So no one in on this lives in Minnesota, or where ever the hell he lives?

Plenty of us pinheads live in Michigan. But showing up at his front door (or suggesting anyone should) is not a good idea. He does have a wife and young kids. Showing up in a threatening manner is not an answer. Allow Kevin to refund what he can and then consider using the legal avenues available to recoup the rest of your money (IF you have money involved in this.)

This has hurt everyone who loves and supports pinball. It's a sad chapter in the rebirth of pinball. But let's not get carried away here. He is human. Maybe he made some terrible decisions but I'm confident he is suffering right now from the extreme stress and reality of his decisions.

Although, I really wish he had the guts to just admit that he knew what he was doing was deceptive and illegal. To pretend he was just confused or there was a miscommunication on the limits of the "license" (that never existed) is very insulting to everyone. That part is as infuriating as how the project itself has been managed.