(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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#5201 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

So let's not try and turn this into corporate espionage or anything.

Quoted only for relevancy. Not directed at Aurich.

This whole thing is amazing. No one could write shite like this. I've seen made for TV movies that aren't near this good.

10
#5202 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

To add to it, I 've received two cease letters in my life. Both from Fox for hosting simpsons and some other audio files for a .wav sound bite site I had years and years ago. I ignored them both. Then got another more threatening letter. Ignored again and never heard from them again.

That just makes you lucky, not smart.

#5203 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

the worst so far out of all botiques

bad.jpeg

#5204 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

That just makes you lucky, not smart.

you just might hear from them in the morning after they read your post tonight

-7
#5205 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

That just makes you lucky, not smart.

Agreed. It was years ago. Point being, no reason Kevin couldn't have attempted the same thing.

16
#5206 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Ok, so I get that. Again, that doesn't mean he wasn't going to produce the games and ship.
He would obviously be sued by Fox at that point, but still not a scam perse to the end user.
We haven't ruled out that Kevin is literally that dumb/ignorant to ignore and continue to produce lol/
I get what you are saying, and do agree to a point, but Im just saying maybe he really did have the anticipation of thinking Fox would simply let this go? Obviously an ignorant stance of his if he took that, but not unlikely.

It's still a scam.

If I sell you a block of land, you take ownership, build a house, move in. Then it turns out I didn't own that land in the first place I still scammed you even though you got the finished product. You bought something you thought was on the up and up and turned out not to be. It's a scam. If Kevin thought he honestly had a licence and wasn't scamming people he would have announced he had issues when he received the cease letters and alerted everyone to the fact he was either getting a licence (which he had no chance of from the sound of things) or tried to refund peoples money and work the situation out. He didn't do that though he kept taking money.

Who knows what could happen down the line with an unlicensed pin, if someone puts it on route to make a profit could fox then go after them? I've heard of businesses getting in trouble when they've had unlicensed software (regardless of if they thought it was licences) so could the same thing happen here?

#5207 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I don't see evidence this was a scam. I've played the game. It actually exists. There are better and more profitable ways to scam people out of money than making a real pinball machine.

It may not be a scam in the Nigerian sense where he set out to get money off people for the sake of it. But that is moot anyway. The evidence it was a scam is that he took money off people, whilst lying.
Pretty. Clear.

image-374.jpg
26
#5208 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

With all do respect, did you enjoy "The Decision" televised by Lebron James? At least he had the balls to do it himself.

I have no idea what this means.

Quoted from badbilly27:

It's not that they found out - its how they chose to communicate it. Worked with FOX lawyers, sent notes to PBN, sent different notes to different pinsiders, heckled Whysnow in many of the notes gloating. Really? Really? Greg, come on.
Yes, Kevin is the only one to blame and should be primary focus until money is returned. But I'll say it again, the ethics in this pinball community need questioning. Serious questioning.

Sorry. I find the whistleblowers to be absolutely ethical. They found out the truth. End of story. There are a lot of allegations in this story - and I respect that all the information was vetted and confirmed before it went public.

I had heard that he didn't have the license YEARS ago, from the "Stern source"...but still, that's one guy telling another guy something - I didn't feel like it'd be right to come blurting "Hey guys, guess what so and so told me" ...cuz hey, what if he was wrong and then I just publicly slandered someone. That being said - the second the website was scrubbed, I KNEW there was no license - as did many people. As sad as this story is...the lack of license was no secret.

Beyond license-gate - let's be real. Was he ever really going to be able to manufacture 250 games!? Look how long Spooky is taking to make their games "garage style". This thing would have fallen apart, whistleblowers or not. He would have taken forever to make the games himself- Fox would have found out. If he had gone to a manufacturer for help - they would have found out the license wasn't there.

This would have fallen apart...no matter what. I just truly hope everyone gets their refund. At the end of the day, the game was a piece of shit anyway - made by a piece of shit. If you get your money back...win-win.

#5209 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I know who that employee is. And he's maintained that for ages, long before Kevin took down the website and everyone got suspicious. If he wanted to sabotage things he could have done it a long time ago.
So let's not try and turn this into corporate espionage or anything.

Aurich, my comment was in reply to another post that was saying how crazy to even think another pinball company would call FOX. I called BS to that statement.

I'm not into pointing a lynch mob at Stern at all. This wasn't Stern - but that specific employee - from what I heard "allegedly" pointed anonymous very specifically towards next steps. The story "allegedly" was talking about next steps to investigate.

All I care about is if anyone found out - they all should have told the community immediately. Alleged employee, vendor, best friend, etc..... Focus on Kevin but instead cloak and dagger delayed relay of info.

#5210 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

To add to it, I 've received two cease letters in my life. Both from Fox for hosting Simpsons and some other audio files for a .wav sound bite site I had years and years ago. I ignored them both. Then got another more threatening letter. Ignored again and never heard from them again.

Expect Rarehero thumbs down in 5....4...3...2...

#5211 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

I've seen made for TV movies that aren't near this good.

Leave my Vampire Vixens from Venus out of this!

-5
#5212 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Expect Rarehero thumbs down in 5....4...3...2...

Lol can't wait. Fox is one of the worst companies in the TV world of all time. He can thumbs that down too while watching Fox news

#5213 4 years ago

Where's the freaking money.

23
#5214 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

No what? No you have no debate to this or what?
I'm looking at this form a factual, non emotional/drama stance.
Does kevin suck the worst so far out of all botiques? Yes, of course. He made a neat, unfinished prototype and went around the country. Would he have ever produced the game? Probably not. Did he intend to take everyone's money and not produce? Doubt it. I bet he didn't realize what it takes. Just like Jpop's game. That's not happening either.

Kevin wanted to create predator pinball machines without a license. He knew that he would never be able to do so if people knew he didn't have a license. So he had to scam the money off of everybody by pretending to have a license all along in order to get their money. Because you would have to be a complete idiot to buy into a project like this if you knew he didn't have a license. YES it was a scam from the start. Premeditated. Scamming the pinball community out of money they would NEVER have invested in a project that didn't have an official license.

#5215 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

I do not understand why people thumbs you down. You are correct in what you are saying.

Let's be clear, when a company raises funds from investors for business purposes they have a well vetted prospectus (public offering document), in this document they outline all the risks of their business, plan of action, managers backgrounds, and all material information - so that investors can make INFORMED decisions. Depending on the type of offering, it is registered with the SEC and various states (in the USA, I know laws vary internationally).

Taking a deposit on a pinball machine under FALSE pretenses is not analogous to an investment of risk capital after being properly disclosed.

To compare TESLA to SKIT-B is beyond ludicrous.

-3
#5216 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

Lol can't wait. Fox is one of the worst companies in the TV world of all time. He can thumbs that down too while watching Fox news

Now we can all rally behind this post. Best News show though...in a comedic sense.

10
#5217 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Expect Rarehero thumbs down in 5....4...3...2...

I give you a thumbs up! .....but where...

Quoted from jrivelli:

Lol can't wait. Fox is one of the worst companies in the TV world of all time. He can thumbs that down too while watching Fox news

Me? Watch Fox News? BWAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA....holy fuck what is going on today.

#5218 4 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

To add to it, I 've received two cease letters in my life. Both from Fox for hosting Simpsons and some other audio files for a .wav sound bite site I had years and years ago. I ignored them both. Then got another more threatening letter. Ignored again and never heard from them again.

Stop doing that.

-1
#5219 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Where in there does it talk about FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY causing them to fail? 'finding out costs are higher than expected' is not fraud. Stupidity is not fraud (tho one could argue negligence and the liability that came come with that depending on your role). 'higher than expected' is not the same thing as DECEPTION and LYING.

It is when you damn well know the numbers arn't going to work before you even start. Before you even have a company. You fudge your numbers on paper, it's the same damn thing. Why don't you quote my post where I go through the hypothetical business model step by step. You seem to magically avoid that post altogether.

22
#5220 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

It is when you damn well know the numbers arn't going to work before you even start. Before you even have a company. You fudge your numbers on paper, it's the same damn thing. Why don't you quote my post where I go through the hypothetical business model step by step. You seem to magically avoid that post altogether.

Are you still really on about this? Let it go, your analogy was bad.

#5221 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Beyond license-gate - let's be real. Was he ever really going to be able to manufacture 250 games!? Look how long Spooky is taking to make their games "garage style". This thing would have fallen apart, whistleblowers or not. He would have taken forever to make the games himself- Fox would have found out. If he had gone to a manufacturer for help - they would have found out the license wasn't there.
This would have fallen apart...no matter what. I just truly hope everyone gets their refund. At the end of the day, the game was a piece of shit anyway - made by a piece of shit. If you get your money back...win-win.

Totally agree.

Quoted from Rarehero:

Sorry. I find the whistleblowers to be absolutely ethical. They found out the truth. End of story. There are a lot of allegations in this story - and I respect that all the information was vetted and confirmed before it went public.

Sorry, we will continue to disagree on this one. But that's ok - its the right conversation to be having as a community going forward. The anonymous team that confirmed after discussion with the lawyer should have told everyone immediately. Why secret emails? PBN? I'll say it again, glad they found out - crappy how they communicated it.

#5222 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

The actions of the 'anonymous' group don't sound selfish to me at all.
They thought the situation wasn't on the up and up, so they and theirs got out. At the time they got out, their fears probably amounted to conjecture and a sober evaluation of the situation, but not necessarily hard evidence. It's perfectly fine to act on your gut for your own sake. When you start advising others and potentially damaging a company, the burden of proof is higher and the consequences greater. You need absolute certainty.
Even when learning about the license, was there something they missed? Maybe spoke with the wrong person at Fox? It's an extremely damning allegation and not one that I, personally, would have made without being 100% certain.
Had they told you to "get out now!" and you did, what would you be saying if the project went forward successfully? You'd be crying that the "well-meaning idiots robbed me of my chance to own a Predator, and look, they're already being resold for 10k!" Cue the WAHHHHmbulance.
I got out last June because by then I started having strong doubts:
1. Very little communication in the year prior to asking for $3000.
2. No evidence of mfg facility or ability to mfg. (No staff, tools, facility, etc.)
3. Dragging the game to shows where it more often than not wasn't working.
4. Dragging the game to shows to promote it when it was already sold out (why?)
5. Excuses of not having time to reply to email or write status reports but time to take it to shows, build Duckhunt and revamp a website.
6. Later on: Excuses of not having time to reply to email or write status reports but time to design Experts of Dangerous and promote it.
Did I think the project was doomed then? Yeah, pretty much. I told my local pinball friends as such. Did I post on pinside shouting to the rooftops? Hell no. I had no smoking gun, and back then, nearly everyone was sunshine and lollipops about this project. I would have been branded a doomsayer who partially caused the project's demise.
TLDR: You got screwed by Kevin, no one else.

And this is why Johnnyo is the man.
He always tells it like it is without silly commentary or bashing anyone.

12
#5223 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

All I care about is if anyone found out - they all should have told the community immediately. Alleged employee, vendor, best friend, etc.....

The "community" was told- they just chose not to listen. Some did and got out early. Some tried and it was too late.

Individuals challenged the license going back MONTHS.... but how do you PROVE something doesn't exist.... it's not so simple.... especially when people check their common sense at the door for their "grail theme."

However those individual voices were drowned out by some supposedly more "established" pinside voices (Ted, Aaaron, VirtuaPin) and some shrill ones (whysnow, etc).

#5224 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Leave my Vampire Vixens from Venus out of this!

vampire vixens pix 1.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

now I have to go to netflix and see if this exists. Thanks for that.

#5225 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I give you a thumbs up! .....but where...

I feel the love man, thanks.

-4
#5226 4 years ago

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).

Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.

or

2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

#5227 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

now I have to go to netflix and see if this exists. Thanks for that.

lol...please don't waste your money...

#5228 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

The "community" was told- they just chose not to listen. Some did and got out early. Some tried and it was too late.
Individuals challenged the license going back MONTHS.... but how do you PROVE something doesn't exist.... it's not so simple.... especially when people check their common sense at the door for their "grail theme."
However those individual voices were drowned out by some supposedly more "established" pinside voices (Ted, Aaaron, VirtuaPin) and some shrill ones (whysnow, etc).

Planting the seed of doubt is completely different than being told and shown proof. Again, (ahem..) "THEY" could have anonymously posted it or PM'd it.

15
#5229 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

I think we're beyond that...

#5230 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).
Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.
or
2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

Are you a pinball journalist?

22
#5231 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).
Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.
or
2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

Or 3. Kevin, send me my f@&kin money!

#5232 4 years ago

I know a lot of you guys (and gals) lost a lot of money on this one. There is nothing worse than being robbed and cheated.

I am reminded of the guy who invested in Google, the VC guy wrote a check on the hood of his car for a couple of kids who had a better search engine, if memory serves that $100k turned into $5B.

The point is, life is like that... He took a chance and bet on the right horse. This guy and skit-b was the wrong horse, but that does not mean you guys were idiots... It just means you trusted a cheat. It happens to everyone.

#5233 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

There's been "a run on the bank", it's over.

-1
#5234 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

A prank how? Someone hacked his email account? If that's even remotely a possibility, I really don't care. Kevin just needs to stick to his word this ONE TIME, and that's it.
If you are insinuating that Playboy is trolling, c'mon man.

Quoted from Nibbles:

A prank how? Someone hacked his email account? If that's even remotely a possibility, I really don't care. Kevin just needs to stick to his word this ONE TIME, and that's it.
If you are insinuating that Playboy is trolling, c'mon man.

Are you trying to create drama or what? Insinuate what? Trolling? Give me a break. I was posting a thought that I simply hope some sicko was not playing a prank...like using an email address with 1 digit off or different. I have seen it before.

#5235 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

The "community" was told- they just chose not to listen. Some did and got out early. Some tried and it was too late.
Individuals challenged the license going back MONTHS.... but how do you PROVE something doesn't exist.... it's not so simple.... especially when people check their common sense at the door for their "grail theme."
However those individual voices were drowned out by some supposedly more "established" pinside voices (Ted, Aaaron, VirtuaPin) and some shrill ones (whysnow, etc).

No, there was educated guesses and "tea leaf" reading by many on here. No hard facts shared. (Full disclosure - after Expo I got out because of false promises Kevin made in an email that did not materialize at Expo). I was fortunate and it wasn't easy getting out)

The simple point I keep making is if anonymous spoke to the lawyer at Fox and confronted Kevin - no need to find an established pinside voice. It's all fact now not "tea leaf" reading. Why the cloak and dagger crap? Why BS emails to taunt Whysnow? Why work with Fox over the community? I'm very glad they investigated - how they communicated is BS.

I get the "drowning out" factor. Trust me, I got into it with one of the more "established" pinsiders spouse who was zealous and took it to PM to resolve. Lessons learned for everyone who is passionate. But when supported facts are presented (like talking to a lawyer), speak it from the highest mountain brother.

#5236 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There's been "a run on the bank", it's over.

bankrun.jpg

14
#5237 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I haven't followed much of this, but I did play the Predator prototype at Expo and thought some of the rules were pretty original.
I'm not commenting on whatever Kevin supposedly did or didn't do, as I don't know. For all I know he may have been talking to someone and being mislead himself (I'm in a naive mood ).
Anyway, there is a very simple solution for the whole matter. Actually multiple:
1. Kevin gets the license after all, produces the games, end of story.
or
2. Another pinball company picks up the Predator license, which shouldn't be expensive at all. They also license Kevin's design. Kevin hands over the remaining pre-order money (which hopefully hasn't been spent). The new manufacturer contacts those who pre-ordered and comes with a proposal to build the game at the same (or at least a reasonable) price. If more money is required then there may be some additional incentives for thsoe who pre-ordered, assuming they are going for a >250 run. Eventually the game becomes available, it may actually see some additional improvement in the mean time, and nobody loses. Like I said I'm in a naive mode, but it doesn't sound impossible to me.

donny.gif
#5238 4 years ago

Actually....this IS his element!

#5239 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

No, there was educated guesses and "tea leaf" reading by many on here. No hard facts shared. (Full disclosure - after Expo I got out because of false promises Kevin made in an email that did not materialize at Expo). I was fortunate and it wasn't easy getting out)
The simple point I keep making is if anonymous spoke to the lawyer at Fox and confronted Kevin - no need to find an established pinside voice. It's all fact now not "tea leaf" reading. Why the cloak and dagger crap? Why BS emails to taunt Whysnow? Why work with Fox over the community? I'm very glad they investigated - how they communicated is BS.
I get the "drowning out" factor. Trust me, I got into it with one of the more "established" pinsiders spouse who was zealous and took it to PM to resolve. Lessons learned for everyone who is passionate. But when supported facts are presented (like talking to a lawyer), speak it from the highest mountain brother.

And what if they went public but Kevin got a license in the end and then fox and kevin went after anonymous for costing them sales? What if Kevin did a runner and Fox went after anonymous? I don't see it as a black and white issue as there was more factors happening at the time.

#5240 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

I don't see it as a black and white issue

...I think it's black ...and blacker...

#5241 4 years ago

All but the.....

fatlady.jpeg

#5242 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

...I think it's black ...and blacker...

I'm just talking about anonymous keeping quiet, I think it's a clear cut fraud on Kevin's part, but it's hard to judge the anonymous group in hindsight imo.

#5243 4 years ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

The deed is done. Filed a dispute claim with my credit card company. Not sure if it will go any where but it is an attempt.

Of course it will go somewhere, don't sound so disappointed!

To everybody who paid with a CC: This case is a slam dunk for you and the most effective way to move forward it to issue a dispute against the charge(s) (which leads to a chargeback). The credit card company will find in your favor since Kevin can produce no proof of delivering the goods, and that's before taking any foul play into account.

You don't need to involve Paypal at all. You can also file a credit card dispute after you have lost a claim with Paypal. The credit card companies trump anything Paypal does.

#5244 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Of course it will go somewhere, don't sound so disappointed!

It seems a few people have gotten a "temporary funds will be put back into your account" comment...

#5245 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmanguy:

And what if they went public but Kevin got a license in the end and then fox and kevin went after anonymous for costing them sales? What if Kevin did a runner and Fox went after anonymous? I don't see it as a black and white issue as there was more factors happening at the time.

As the story goes, anonymous spoke to the lawyer - first hand - who confirmed, no license. Then asked anonymous to help Fox investigate and to collect more info. This, supposedly after a C&D was issued to Kevin. So how would making this public impact anything or hold them liable? It's fact.

#5246 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

But was that simply a broken clock is right twice a day?
We should be sure to differentiate between something someone KNEW vs what they were SPECULATING and happened to be right.
People had all kinds of theories and concerns... and no matter how right they might have been, if they started without references or research.. then they are still simply speculating.
Obviously some people were trying to do their dilligence before spewing half information or onesided stories. Kudos to that. The amount of people that are advocating you should be sharing unvetted information 'to save the buyers' is insane.
Floods of inaccurate information is even more damaging than the alternative.

4 red flags were ignored period. All 4 red flags were brought up here and never did a civil conversation result...never. People fell in love with the pin and the concept. I can see why, it was appealing. I was even in until 18 months ago. Red flags are red flags.

1) Was here almost every day when it was funding time. After piggy bank was full, bye bye.
2) ALL Predator information, videos and references removed from web site, you tube and emails.
3) Delay after delay. Touting a second pin while delaying and stealth silence for 1st pin.
4) Promised manufacturing building never executed. 2 years in the making to lease, then did not.

Red flags. Hopefully if this ever happens again...people can discuss it in a civil manner.
1)

#5247 4 years ago

I have no skin in this particular game, but I was just wondering can't they just retitle the game as a non licensed machine or would you be out of it because it doesn't carry the name Predator.

#5248 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

As the story goes, anonymous spoke to the lawyer - first hand - who confirmed, no license. Then asked anonymous to help Fox investigate and to collect more info. This, supposedly after a C&D was issued to Kevin. So how would making this public impact anything or hold them liable? It's fact.

Didn't it also say they were specifically told by the lawyer not to say anything? Sure they could have said, they didn't sign an NDA, but at the same time I don't think it's a simple thing to place blame on them when it was Kevin who chose to take money knowing full well he was being taken down by Fox at the same time.

#5249 4 years ago

Just to add more info to everything here. I've always believed it's easier to attract flies with honey, blah, blah, blah. I emailed Kevin this morning and got a response several hours after. This looks promising to me. Here's to hoping that the account was locked and that all of (or most of) the money is still there. image.jpg

#5250 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Of course it will go somewhere, don't sound so disappointed!
To everybody who paid with a CC: This case is a slam dunk for you and the most effective way to move forward it to issue a dispute against the charge(s) (which leads to a chargeback). The credit card company will find in your favor since Kevin can produce no proof of delivering the goods, and that's before taking any foul play into account.
You don't need to involve Paypal at all. You can also file a credit card dispute after you have lost a claim with Paypal. The credit card companies trump anything Paypal does.

So what about us paid in full 4750 and used our bank with paypal? Guess we are at the mercy of kevin?

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