(Topic ID: 108377)
Linked Games
Duck Hunt
Skit-B Pinball, 2013-
Experts of Dangerous
Skit-B Pinball, 2014
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Predator
Skit-B Pinball, 2013
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Sonic: The Hedgehog
Skit-B Pinball, 2013
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Starfox
Skit-B Pinball, 2013
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Quoted from PinChili:Because why? I just find it interesting that only a few months she was on Facebook talking about completely remaking (or making?) her "new studio" and was getting all new equipment. I thought that might be relevant for folks wondering where their money might have went.
I dunno man, not my style to get family members involved and also posting their personal website. But I guess if it adds a piece to the puzzle then whatever floats your boat. Ya we can make some light jokes towards the wife, but I mean there might be some enraged pinsider who might even get to the point of being violent and here's some personal information/photo provided on the website. I'd just stick it to Kevin as he was "Stan the used car salesman", not the wife :/.
Quoted from jrivelli:So if he does refund all the money and there is no scam then thats super lame of the folks who tattled to fox, right? This was a small 250 run with a prototype that went to shows. Perhaps insanely slow to develop etc. Not the issue. Now, because some "pinsiders on a crusade", or however they identified their self-rightesous selfs, fox wins and all 250 preorders get money back, but lose. Bummer!
I think its in Kevins best interest to refund asap as I'm sure he has had a rough couple days of harsh emails from us and paypal not to mention possible legal action forwarded in his direction. I doubt what he has accumulated in parts will set him back very much and unless he went on a shopping spree the majority of cash is still there. I have to be optimistic and give him till the end of the week, after that no more Mr.Niceguy. 
Holly, MI
Quoted from Skins:Speaking of Aaron from fast. An interesting thing he mentioned that got looked over when things went nuclear was Aaron said kevin was trying to get money back from the cabinet guy. I have my concerns about this cabinet guy too.
The cabinet guy is in the same boat as everyone else!
To: "Greg Wells", "Mr. X.", or whatever pseudonym you'd like,
I didn't replied to your anonymous email, as I had yet to see or hear any hard facts. As of this morning, I have fully read Martin's expose and followed along with this topic. I simply cannot fathom the license being a lie, even to this day. How can someone so blatantly jeopardize 4 hobby-related businesses without any regard for their futures?!
Nonetheless, I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines. I would now like to speak personally with a Fox representative regarding the matter. I would not be doing my own due diligence if I fail to follow up in light of all the recent developments.
As I understand it, it's not an easy task to contact them, so I ask ...
Please put me in touch with Fox, so I can get some firsthand answers to the questions I need answered. I have a lot invested in this project, and I will be exploring my own recourse in this matter.
You have my email, if you want to continue to be anonymous.
Thank you.
Quoted from sd_tom:The games in archive are also tagged to threads and indexable by forum. For that purpose it is very helpful to have project games in the archive as it helps find threads.. Helpful even now finding the refund activity threads:
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/predator/forum
Absolutely understood. But if you look at the Predator splash page for example it says "2013, & 250 produced." Maybe there should be a separate designation for games in production... Oh wait
Quoted from NoahFentz:Nonetheless, I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines.
Simple then: Ask Kevin to produce it. Show the paper contract. These things don't happen without paperwork, so it shouldn't be hard to produce for you.
You said you'd vetted it already, but obviously you were just going on Kevin's word. Let's see the paperwork (spoiler: it doesn't exist).
Quoted from NoahFentz:I have spoken with various individuals today, and Kevin still contends he has/had a license to produce these machines.
Let's see it.
You know, I swear there would be sympathy for him if he produced a document between himself and Fox for ANYTHING (just not the right thing), and stick to the "it wasn't what I thought it was".
But if such a thing doesn't exist, then the story as we've learned it is the way it is.
Quoted from Aurich:Simple then: Ask Kevin to produce it. Show the paper contract. These things don't happen without paperwork, so it shouldn't be hard to produce for you.
You said you'd vetted it already, but obviously you were just going on Kevin's word. Let's see the paperwork (spoiler: it doesn't exist).
The one odd thing I find curious ... after MPE in 2014 (or 2013?) the artwork for the playfield was changed slightly (a few noticeable changes I thought?) I thought at the time that Kevin stated is was because the studio requested or demanded the changes? Was that really just a lie and they made the changes just because they wanted to?
If Kevin was EVER working with someone at Fox who reviewed their artwork (use of IP) can someone please get him to provide an ACTUAL NAME of the person? (as well as any documented agreement.)
Quoted from frolic:Let's see it.
No shi*. Upload it then. We know damn well it doesn't exist.
Quoted from Aurich:Simple then: Ask Kevin to produce it. Show the paper contract. These things don't happen without paperwork, so it shouldn't be hard to produce for you.
You said you'd vetted it already, but obviously you were just going on Kevin's word. Let's see the paperwork (spoiler: it doesn't exist).
Not only said he vetted it. Put his stamp of approval on it and assured people they were getting them.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:It would be a whole new level of sad if Kevin is still lying now about this.
it would be a whole new level of stupid to believe he is not lying..
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Did not until you started saying what you were and placing me on his level for being upset at someones intent. Lets be very clear you took my non generalized statement and A. Took it to heart and B decided to attack me. Mr High and mighty.You made it clear how you feel about me and your words made things clear to me. So we are on even ground. Only I dont do it at others expense ; )
Your group Your group Your group Your group ...
Because your "generalized statement" was idiotic. And it still is.
I still have no clue how you can call the whistleblowers who came out with the truth "assholes" or self serving when they are anonymous!
Quoted from RobT:Because your "generalized statement" was idiotic. And it still is.
I still have no clue how you can call the whistleblowers who came out with the truth "assholes" or self serving when they are anonymous!
A lot of anonymous people are trying to be famous. It's just really, really, really hard.....
Quoted from PinChili:The one odd thing I find curious ... after MPE in 2014 (or 2013?) the artwork for the playfield was changed slightly (a few noticeable changes I thought?) I thought at the time that Kevin stated is was because the studio requested or demanded the changes? Was that really just a lie and they made the changes just because they wanted to?
If Kevin was EVER working with someone at Fox who reviewed their artwork (use of IP) can someone please get him to provide an ACTUAL NAME of the person? (as well as any documented agreement.)
I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.
Digby, NS
Quoted from spfxted:Jeez! Do some of you just like to argue? I'm not saying it would be difficult...just that it's not automatic. If you're going to court you have to SHOW proof. No more, no less. You can't just go in with a good story.
Print the email of him saying he has a license. Show that you paid him $4750. Wow, so difficult.
Quoted from RobT:I had nothing to do with any of it. Zero.
That's exactly what a "pinside immortal" would say. 
Quoted from YKpinballer:Print the email of him saying he has a license. Show that you paid him $4750. Wow, so difficult.
lol...I didn't mean Judge Judy... 
Quoted from NoahFentz:I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.
One thing we know for sure.... Kevin is sure one awesome pathological liar.
Quoted from tamoore:A lot of anonymous people are trying to be famous. It's just really, really, really hard.....
Quoted from RobT:I still have no clue how you can call the whistleblowers who came out with the truth "assholes" or self serving when they are anonymous!
If their intent was to mess with someone over the benefit of the group its self serving and anonymity was for their benefit not to be gracious.
Again there is a lot of this we are doing it for the community. Well here is a chance that they could have come here right away. They could have served the community but it sure looks like they served their mission first.
Honestly I was pissed last night at everything. As more time goes by I tend to think even worse of kevin and to be fair think this blew up more then the X group thought it would. But I still think their game played out badly. Now kevin keeps proving he is really broken.
I think knowing what we all know now Predator still would not have happened.
Quoted from Erik:That's exactly what a "pinside immortal" would say.
Hey I push back but let me be clear. I have no reason to think RobT is involved. My poking is just our arguing. Do not take that any other way.
Much more importantly these things are taking away from the only thing that matters at this point. This all pushed out the truth of kevins position, actions and lies which still seem to continue.
Money and crimes need to be the only focus.
Quoted from jrivelli:So if he does refund all the money and there is no scam then thats super lame of the folks who tattled to fox, right? This was a small 250 run with a prototype that went to shows. Perhaps insanely slow to develop etc. Not the issue. Now, because some "pinsiders on a crusade", or however they identified their self-rightesous selfs, fox wins and all 250 preorders get money back, but lose. Bummer!
This is totally true. Why would some idiots give this thumbs down?
Quoted from NoahFentz:I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.
That doesn't buy you any credit here man. It's your job to verify Kevin had the rights to use the ip assets. So because he talked the talk you believed him?
How about you owing him money? From an outsiders perspective, one could potentionaly draw the conclusion you were party to it and when the shit hit the fan you decided to keep money given to you for cabinets. I mean, what's kevin going to do, go to the cops, to pinside? Not that you would do that but since you're certian everything's fine and this is just conspiracy theories, I thought you might like another one.
Quoted from markmon:This is totally true. Why would some idiots give this thumbs down?
Because it's bullshit and clueless?
Quoted from Hazoff:I think its in Kevins best interest to refund asap as I'm sure he has had a rough couple days of harsh emails from us and paypal not to mention possible legal action forwarded in his direction. I doubt what he has accumulated in parts will set him back very much and unless he went on a shopping spree the majority of cash is still there. I have to be optimistic and give him till the end of the week, after that no more Mr.Niceguy.
Why would you give a proven liar even one more second?
Quoted from markmon:This is totally true. Why would some idiots give this thumbs down?
Because these pins were NEVER getting made, period. Those "pinsiders on a crusade" put a stop to a never ending scam.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Money and crimes need to be the only focus.
There you go. Now you're on the right scent.
I swear to God I need to stop reading this thread. I'm just going to blow a gasket. Too much ignorance being shown by too many Pinsiders. It hurts!!
I'd prefer to think I hang out in a forum with smart people. 
Quoted from NoahFentz:I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.
News flash, bud. You DID work on an unlicensed product because you DIDN'T verify the license, which you came onto pinside and assured everybody that you had personally verified.
Uk
Quoted from RobT:I swear to God I need to stop reading this thread. I'm just going to blow a gasket. Too much ignorance being shown by too many Pinsiders. It hurts!!
I'd prefer to think I hang out in a forum with smart people.
The smart ones see all and say little.
Quoted from RobT:I swear to God I need to stop reading this thread. I'm just going to blow a gasket. Too much ignorance being shown by too many Pinsiders. It hurts!!
I'd prefer to think I hang out in a forum with smart people.
Meh, it just makes it easy to know who should be on your ignore list.
Quoted from NoahFentz:I talked with Kevin through the 'approval' process, and everything he said was very credible. Right down to submitting the new art, after changes, for approval.
I'm obviously not the only one that's been duped here. I stated I would not work on an unlicensed product, and I stand by that. I was 100% convinced this thing was licensed.
Wow, if this is true then he should have no trouble giving at least one name of someone specific at Fox that he had to work with through the approval process. Even just ONE name that can be verified.
If it's not true then it is even more crazy. The lengths to which he went to deceive people would really be astonishing (and border on mental disorder.)
I'm still catching up from page 90 right now, but for what it's worth the Capital One Visa card that I used to pay the initial $250 deposit has a 540 day cutoff for disputes. So while the pre-build payment is likely still within the dispute window for most credit card companies the initial $250 payment (mine was in Dec 2012) seems to be pretty well out of reach until everything works out to conclusion.
Quoted from RobT:I swear to God I need to stop reading this thread. I'm just going to blow a gasket. Too much ignorance being shown by too many Pinsiders. It hurts!!
Good
Quoted from YKpinballer:Because these pins were NEVER getting made, period. Those "pinsiders on a crusade" put a stop to a never ending scam.
I don't see evidence this was a scam. I've played the game. It actually exists. There are better and more profitable ways to scam people out of money than making a real pinball machine.
Good wishes to the ~180 folks that still have money in on Predator. Here's hoping against hope that Kevin comes through on his current promise to refund all money within the next few days. But I'm glad to see that efforts are underway to pursue whatever can be salvaged from the wreckage if the latest promise also proves false. Best of luck and know that despite the heated bickering in this thread, the overwhelming majority of Pinsiders are hoping that you recover most or all of your money as quickly as possible.
For you boobs who think the anonymous group were nothing more than assholes for bringing the truth out about there being no license because you think Predator could have been made "under the radar" and delivered to customers, please read this post, as it appears you missed it earlier:
Quoted from StevenP:From strictly an IP perspective, you are infringing once you advertise and offer something for sale that is copyrighted, without the (c) owner's permission. The court can order impounding of all infringing goods (e.g. shipped/unshipped Predator games, parts with Predator artwork/logo, etc.). US Code, Title 17, Section 503. It's OK to do a personal retheme for your own use (and not-so-OK if you sell even one of these that has copyrighted/trademarked elements, technically). I cannot fathom what Kevin was thinking...
This is a moronic statement. (not the first from this source, btw.) Why? because, what *if* Predator was made "under the radar" and shipped? Pretty sure someone at Fox would find out eventually. And infringement is infringement. A year or 2 from now, they could sue Kevin/Skit-B, get all sales records thru discovery, and impound all the Predator games. (That means taking them away from all the owners, without *any* compensation.) And once the games were built, there would be ZERO money left, and the customers would definitely be out 100%.
Quoted from cooldan:this thread needs more of this
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This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hidegif jessica alba underwater2.gif 1
Mate, if I get my money back i'll get my own tits out and offer free motorboats to all.
Villejuif
Quoted from markmon:I don't see evidence this was a scam. I've played the game. It actually exists. There are better and more profitable ways to scam people out of money than making a real pinball machine.
It wasn't a scam in the sense of building a proto to get money with no intention of building more. The fraud was he willingly took money after he was served a cease and desist notice. He knew he couldn't build them at that point. Allegedly of course...
Quoted from Russo121:Mate, if I get my money back i'll get my own tits out and offer free motorboats to all.
What size cup are you?
Quoted from RobT:I swear to God I need to stop reading this thread. I'm just going to blow a gasket. Too much ignorance being shown by too many Pinsiders. It hurts!!
I'd prefer to think I hang out in a forum with smart people.
Well, I've had enough of this ride so I'll be getting off. I'm still shocked we have two camps divided against Kevin after everything has shaken out over the weekend. This whole event has definitely cast a new light on the forum and many members in my eyes. Some for the better, a few for the worse.
I really hope the people with money in the project get every dime back, and the less mature side of me wouldn't mind seeing Kevin/SkitB seeing some severe repercussions beyond simple refunds.
Best of luck everyone.
Quoted from Russo121:Mate, if I get my money back i'll get my own tits out and offer free motorboats to all.
I am definitely in if this becomes a group buy! 
Vince-Vaughn-Motorboating.gifQuoted from Aurich:Simple then: Ask Kevin to produce it. Show the paper contract. These things don't happen without paperwork, so it shouldn't be hard to produce for you.
You said you'd vetted it already, but obviously you were just going on Kevin's word. Let's see the paperwork (spoiler: it doesn't exist).
yes, it really is that simple...
what is somewhat mind-boggling is that (apparently) not even one of the "vendor people" involved in this project asked for "real live proof of approved licensing" when initially entering into an agreement with kevin...
it would be one thing to have that level of trust if you were entering into an agreement with someone you had a long standing relationship with... but to have that level of trust in some kids in the basement?
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