(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18,301 posts
  • 815 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,544 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

72329539_10219705910182373_6362298985876553728_n (resized).jpg
pirateplayersclub (resized).jpg
case against keith.pdf (PDF preview)
_2_16-21030.pdf (PDF preview)
Kulek.pdf (PDF preview)
6-pennywise-has-some-nickelback-funny-meme (resized).jpg
will-ferrell-fillwerrel-i-just-fell-down-the-stairs-holding-31512906 (resized).png
pinsiders (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
194b3475e0440b8112afc0ac4ad5bf0ed0e8ec3db63fb4b6748a4f2e06a9865b (resized).jpg
31A053C2-4495-4E3E-980F-E5ADEA02F1DE (resized).jpeg
IMG_2933 (resized).JPG
beetlejuice-shrunken head (resized).jpg
2716720260_bc8966f6b1 (resized).jpg
D460F55E-AD42-43C6-91EB-B8162A84A094.gif
Screenshot_20190103-214734_Facebook (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 18301 posts in this topic. You are on page 101 of 367.
#5001 4 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

And get embroiled in this mess? I've already seen the flak Martin has been taking after people decided to 'shoot the messenger'. JJP or Stern probably took one look at it, laughed as they realised how much sh*t Kevin was in and moved on.

For sure JJP and Stern didn't care who Kevin was and his little Predator project. I'm sure in person Jack would say in his New Jersey accent, "Kevin o-boy, good to ya for gettin' er done". But next minute is in the bar with his team laughing it off...

#5002 4 years ago

A lot of folks are also forgetting that it cost $250 to get in on the waitlist, when JJP and Stern wanted the full amount up front. We got to be involved in the making of the pin for 2 years. Definitely didn't see this coming. Of course there's red flags everywhere looking back.

21
#5003 4 years ago

I put this in the Predator PayPal thread, but I'll share it here too just in case it helps anyone.

Quoted from blondetall:

We paid the remainder of the balance last March via PayPal but backed with a credit card. It was actually over a year ago so we thought we were out of luck, but others were trying with some success so we called and talked to the dispute center at Chase. Since we paid in advance and weren't expecting the machine until Q4 (if it had started on time then and with our build # being halfway-ish) they put down 12/31/14 as the expected date and opened a chargeback dispute. I'd already paid off the card so there's no "temporary" funds showing or anything at all happening per the website, so I called them and they said it is in process and Kevin has 60 days/2 billing cycles to dispute before they can issue the money back.
So, despite it being over a year, as long as there's no dispute from him, I may get some of my money back. And if he tries to dispute it, there's going to be a big fight. So we paid through PayPal but everything is taking place with the credit card company instead. My advice to anyone in the same situation is to tell them something similar to the above, as we do have the emails showing where production was supposed to start in early/mid 2014 and funds were asked for at the time for sourcing parts. It was a prepayment with a calculatable timeline that will put expected dates more in the range of the chargeback time limits than the date that you actually paid.

#5004 4 years ago
Quoted from Stones:

Right? Plus, Kevin had everything going for him:
.
.
Lower Price/when everyone was getting upset about higher price
.
.

I'll bet if Gary did not have to go through licensing he could lower the prices also.

#5005 4 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

I recently had Very good contact to Kevin. Being One of The first Ten buyers and being fully paid i am sure to get my baby soon. Know The whole emotional rollercoaster Ride as you guys do but i am Very sure that we will see The first games ship Very soon

This was the first 'new' entry when I opened this thread after not looking for a while.

#5006 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

A lot of folks are also forgetting that it cost $250 to get in on the waitlist, when JJP and Stern wanted the full amount up front. We got to be involved in the making of the pin for 2 years. Definitely didn't see this coming. Of course there's red flags everywhere looking back.

It's true though. Someone mentioned the "age of innocence" here. Hell yeah pinball only has good intentions for the end receiver. That means getting a game and enjoying it with family and friends. This is a totally new experience for the community and something we all have to learn from. It's sad because anyone in the future that wants to build a pinball machine from scratch from his garage will always be refereed to by the "Scam-B Case"...

#5007 4 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

And get embroiled in this mess? I've already seen the flak Martin has been taking after people decided to 'shoot the messenger'. JJP or Stern probably took one look at it, laughed as they realised how much sh*t Kevin was in and moved on.

When the messenger is purposely late and people are wronged because of it, expect nukes, not bullets.

#5008 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

how funny would it be if it was an inside job in the industry.

fc140x140silver.jpg

Seriously though, we know that both Highway and Stern have licensing history with Fox. Why should they have to pay those silly fees if SkitB doesn't have to.

#5009 4 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

fc140x140silver.jpg

Picture made me laugh, thanks for that, it's been awhile

#5010 4 years ago
Quoted from blondetall:

I put this in the Predator PayPal thread, but I'll share it here too just in case it helps anyone.

When the dust settles, it sounds like some credit card companies are (FAR) more accommodating than others... would be good to keep track of as people consider future purchases!

-1
#5011 4 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

fc140x140silver.jpg
Seriously though, we know that both Highway and Stern have licensing history with Fox. Why should they have to pay those silly fees if SkitB doesn't have to.

Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me. I'd also check to see what the licensing fees are and weigh my profit margins. If bottom line still looks good then screw 250 orders, hell I'd aim for 5000 orders. Without any doubt, no one can create this game without the proper license so you do bring a good point that those two companies have the connections.

#5012 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

A lot of folks are also forgetting that it cost $250 to get in on the waitlist, when JJP and Stern wanted the full amount up front. We got to be involved in the making of the pin for 2 years. Definitely didn't see this coming. Of course there's red flags everywhere looking back.

I don't recall Stern asking for prepayment on games. They've released statements saying they do not support it.

16
#5013 4 years ago
pred.jpg
#5014 4 years ago

^^^ LOL

#5015 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

When the dust settles, it sounds like some credit card companies are (FAR) more accommodating than others... would be good to keep track of as people consider future purchases!

Amex is so easy to work with on shi* like this. I've never had a problem with a charge back through them.

21
#5016 4 years ago

All you guys asking why they didn't step forward earlier. That's a bullshit argument....look what happened to Phil when he did that with TBL. You guys f'ing crucified him AND you could even get your money back. And yes, I totally believe that they were trying the same 'fly one under the radar trick' as well, but were able to actually get it back on track when called out, or so it seems. I'd say you should thank both Phil and these guys, for getting the truth out there. I totally believe that TBL would be in the same mess right now if it wasn't for Phil.

#5017 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

When the messenger is purposely late and people are wronged because of it, expect nukes, not bullets.

Have you considered the possibility that due to another manufacturer getting involved, he would be subject to an NDA? Therefore, unable to tell anybody what he had discovered without legal ramifications until said manufacturer had passed on the project?

#5018 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me. I'd also check to see what the licensing fees are and weigh my profit margins. If bottom line still looks good then screw 250 orders, hell I'd aim for 5000 orders. Without any doubt, no one can create this game without the proper license so you do bring a good point that those two companies have the connections.

Pinball isn't nearly profitable enough for Fox to want to get into it, especially when the price is jacked so high the original 250 wouldn't reorder.

#5019 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me. I'd also check to see what the licensing fees are and weigh my profit margins. If bottom line still looks good then screw 250 orders, hell I'd aim for 5000 orders. Without any doubt, no one can create this game without the proper license so you do bring a good point that those two companies have the connections.

I would love to see someone pick it up and it be a successful title.....and Kevin have nothing to do with it.....

#5020 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

JPOP's projects are alive and moving toward completion.

You've got brass, man! You're an active player in the other pre-order meltdown and you have the nerve to come on this thread and pile on.

#5021 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

original 250 wouldn't reorder.

Oh man...would I re-pre-order this game if another MFR picked it up?

I'm one heck of an optimistic bastage, but I don't even know if I could stomach that.

Pete

#5022 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Pinball isn't nearly profitable enough for Fox to want to get into it, especially when the price is jacked so high the original 250 wouldn't reorder.

To be honest I have zero knowledge on how the licensing process works. All I thought was getting a couple of papers signed and that's it. You're right, definitely not a viable product for Fox as the paper work itself might be a pain in the ass, but I bet you 20 bucks that Fox rep that Mr.X was talking to drooled over the Predator pin after doing his research. It was a badass pin man...

#5023 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I'm sure in person Jack would say in his New Jersey accent, "Kevin o-boy, good to ya for gettin' er done".

I didn't know Jack was Irish....

#5024 4 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

All you guys asking why they didn't step forward earlier. That's a bullshit argument....look what happened to Phil when he did that with TBL. You guys f'ing crucified him AND you could even get your money back. And yes, I totally believe that they were trying the same 'fly one under the radar trick' as well, but were able to actually get it back on track when called out, or so it seems. I'd say you should thank both Phil and these guys, for getting the truth out there. I totally believe that TBL would be in the same mess right now if it wasn't for Phil.

I can understand that being the case in a public discussion but not if denied vital information from a credible source in a private email discussion when asked directly.

#5025 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I didn't know Jack was Irish....

LOL. He's got a funny accent :p

12
#5026 4 years ago
Quoted from pmWolf:

Oh man...would I re-pre-order this game if another MFR picked it up?
I'm one heck of an optimistic bastage, but I don't even know if I could stomach that.
Pete

If Stern picked it up just as it is, people would shout from the rooftops how awful it was.

#5027 4 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

Have you considered the possibility that due to another manufacturer getting involved, he would be subject to an NDA? Therefore, unable to tell anybody what he had discovered without legal ramifications until said manufacturer had passed on the project?

No mention of an NDA other than a verbal agreement between people who had vital info. Unless you know something different of course?

-5
#5028 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Nah it's pretty similar. It's come to light that Jpop hasn't paid vendors and had burned a ton of bridges - he has never shown a working proto (at least Shit-Mask had that)...and he's never shown he has the capability to manufacture. As far as I'm concerned, they're both misfit dreamers who took money with no logical endgame.

I gave this a thumbs-down. Not because I disagree with that there should be more info put out, but because I disagree with the characterization and conclusions. As someone else noted, John may be slow and stubborn, but he knows the realities and details of the biz (having worked hands-on with B/W and Zizzle, etc.), and he is not lying or deceiving customers.

As for the "working proto," I've seen both games in person recently. John probably could have put together a basic flipping whitewood a couple of years ago, if he put in the basic hardware and software first with some general pin components. But anyone can do that, and John knows that (and has done it before). His approach (as a designer, I guess) is to design a full game first, and then "bring it to life" with known hardware and programming pieces. Which is why MG already looks like a production game and RAZA looks like one with just a few pieces to be finalized and bolted down. Kinda like sewing a frankenstein body together first, and the last step being zapping it with a lightning bolt.

Yep, more info would be great and appropriate. Hopefully we'll see some soon. I do know John has 1 or 2 real options for manufacturing in place. There are a bunch of these types of companies around Chicago still. Saw pics of the space for one of them. But it may be a confidentiality issue (or still considering other options) preventing more details being made public yet--I didn't ask.

Still, not the same. At all. (And remember, zero licensing issues with MG or RAZA.)

Quoted from Honch:

You've got brass, man! You're an active player in the other pre-order meltdown and you have the nerve to come on this thread and pile on.

If you call it brass to post in this thread, try to correct some misperceptions/misinformation raised in this thread, then ok, I have it. But I'm not "piling on" here. I think the Predator mess sucks and sympathize with all who pre-ordered. There was a lot of blatant deceit going on, and I do find it very surprising there was NEVER any license. So I get how others who pre-ordered feel the same way. And I also see how the JPOP issue is different, as noted above.

#5029 4 years ago

That's the thing with NDAs, it's kind of like a super-injunction (or fight club rules). He won't be able to say if he was subject to an NDA or not. If you know him, you know Martin is a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he would have let people know what was going on if he could have done so without jeopardising himself or the possibility of someone else picking up the pieces.

EDIT: And one more thing, at least Martin had the balls to put his name behind it, rather than hiding behind an 'anonymous' moniker.

#5030 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

I just received an email stating all moneys collected will be refunded in a few days

That is encouraging news but expect it to meet a lot of skepticism. His actions will speak louder than words but it does signal a move in the right direction. It does give a deadline - in a few days. It does give an amount - all monies. It implies that Kevin has decided the right thing to do going forward is to refund money and close down this project. I hope a similar email was sent to all people with money tied up in Predator at the same time. Did others receive something similar?

#5031 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Did others receive something similar?

No, nothing.

I might text Kevin to verify, but doubtful he would reply or if I would believe him anyway...

#5032 4 years ago

If (and this is a big if) Kevin is telling the truth and everyone gets a full refund, any guesses how much money that means he is personally about to eat?? I mean seriously, if he had all 250 sets of skulls/spines made from Back Alley wouldn't that alone mean about $25,000 (at $100 a piece ballpark?) And what could the cost of 10 playfields be? The list price on Virtua Pin's website says $950 for a regular body, fully trimmed cabinet (decals are additional) so that's roughly another $10,000 right there alone.

For some reason I am highly skeptical that Kevin is able to just eat the probably $50,000 spent so far (minimum) out of his own personal account. Something is still very much rotten here.

15
#5033 4 years ago

Hope to soon see people unboxing their refunds...

#5034 4 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

No, nothing.
I might text Kevin to verify, but doubtful he would reply or if I would believe him anyway...

What if it is a prank? Some sicko toying with people who are in a difficult position? I hope not but have heard of stuff like this

#5035 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Something is still very much rotten here.

Right! Now he is going to start telling the truth...

#5036 4 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Isn't she a witch? Surely she can magically refund all the money.

yes kevin his wife is an practical witch.. she even went to salem a while ago.. that doesnt mean she is an bad person.. on the contrary i like her a lot personally!
i hope she will not get hurt by all this or her children.

2 years ago at MPE in 2013 i holded the new to be made predator playfield kevin his mom was so proud of it! but i always had an bad feeling about this game, and the fact that kevin never looked me in the eyes.. my inner voice said stay away from this game, an friend of mine switched up buying AMH instead of the predator game because i told him my feeling about this game, now i wish ive could warn everyone who had skin in this game! plus i always thought that the UV lighting never will work as what they had in mind.. plastics looked dull. etc etc. an very bad day for pinball in general! my condolances to the victims

560086_928236579941_2142656381_n.jpg

904335_4724299310282_1985746464_o.jpg
#5037 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

For some reason I am highly skeptical that Kevin is able to just eat the probably $50,000 spent so far (minimum) out of his own personal account. Something is still very much rotten here.

I agree, and I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I'm concerned (I know others are not), but he can keep my initial $250 pre-build deposit money; as long as he returns the $4500 that he has of my money, I will forget he ever existed and move on. If he doesn't, he will be dealing with this forever.

#5038 4 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

That's the thing with NDAs, it's kind of like a super-injunction (or fight club rules). He won't be able to say if he was subject to an NDA or not. If you know him, you know Martin is a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he would have let people know what was going on if he could have.

I don't accept that there was ever a legally binding NDA agreement about the predator story. Just words between men. I'll get over it.

#5039 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

How do we know "mr x" wasn't someone from JJP or Stern?

Hmmm...not sure but Whysnow posted a few pages back that Jared had said Jody Dankberg from Stern was going to look into the license thing. Also I've heard Jack was trying to help Kevin sort stuff out, so you can count him out.

#5040 4 years ago

I started a thread regarding our experiences with Credit Card companies trying to get a chargeback/refund. Feel free to share your experience so we will know which cards will actually protect their customers when things go bad.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/credit-card-companies-that-protect-their-customers

#5041 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

What if it is a prank? Some sicko toying with people who are in a difficult position? I hope not but have heard of stuff like this

A prank how? Someone hacked his email account? If that's even remotely a possibility, I really don't care. Kevin just needs to stick to his word this ONE TIME, and that's it.

If you are insinuating that Playboy is trolling, c'mon man.

14
#5042 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Actually, they have houses for $500-750 in MI as well. I saw 4 of them on ebay not to long ago, and they closed at $500 each. Didn't look that bad either, but were in the heart of the Ghetto. Not hard to find a $2000-4000 house around detroit.

Oh look.. the King of Pin-values has moved into real estate appraising now too.

#5043 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Oh look.. the King of Pin-values has moved into real estate appraising now too.

Haha. He wears the tin foil hat, err...crown well.

#5044 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

For sure JJP and Stern didn't care who Kevin was and his little Predator project. I'm sure in person Jack would say in his New Jersey accent, "Kevin o-boy, good to ya for gettin' er done". But next minute is in the bar with his team laughing it off...

Actually Jack has always talked about it in a fairly complimentary manner internally. Certainly no laughing it up in the bar or whatever. Probably why we were going to possibly manufacture EOD.

I'm led to believe Gary's/George's reaction were slightly different.

13
#5045 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I like the stock analogy better. It's more to the truth than anything else. You are putting money into something that has yet to be made. Plenty of companies go belly up trying to make a product and find out costs are higher than expected. Everyone that put into that company loses their ass when shit fall apart. This is no different.

Except companies put together a prospectus to outline their plan and business. That knowledge is given to potential investors. People make the decision based on their info provided and their own research.

Starting to sound familiar?

But while a company may fail to achieve their goals and go down with all their investor's money... that's normal life. If they LIE about what they have in the prospectus - then its FRAUD. Kind of like, Kevin LYING about his project - repeatedly.

You can't get it through your noggin... the idea of failing is not what matters here or draws any parallels... it's about the business LYING and misrepresenting themselves - which leads to the failure. Every time you skip over that part in your stories... you make yourself look like a bigger idiot.

16
#5046 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well from a business stand-point, if I was one of those companies I would ask Skit-B how much they would sell the project to me.

Sell them what? There is nothing to buy! A CAD drawing of a playfield and some art that looks like the weird kid from your high school shop class drew in his notebook? You couldn't get that art through licensing anyway. I don't even think the engineering is worth anything. Charlie from Spooky says they were still trying to figure out how to get the black light feature to work. MAYBE the code is worth something? There is literally nothing to buy here.

Stern, Heighway, whoever. They could literally walk up to Fox and get the license and it would mean no money to SkitB.

#5047 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Actually Jack has always talked about it in a fairly complimentary manner internally. Certainly no laughing it up in the bar or whatever. Probably why we were going to possibly manufacture EOD.
I'm led to believe Gary's/George's reaction were slightly different.

For sure Jack is a nice guy, I was just being an ass with my comment lol. I met Jack, he's totally genuine and treats you like gold. Don't know about Gary/George though.

#5048 4 years ago

Don't let this get buried, keep this on every page for the buyers to see.

Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I started a thread regarding our experiences with Credit Card companies trying to get a chargeback/refund. Feel free to share your experience so we will know which cards will actually protect their customers when things go bad.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/credit-card-companies-that-protect-their-customers

#5049 4 years ago
Quoted from DrStarkweather:

Sell them what? There is nothing to buy! A CAD drawing of a playfield and some art that looks like the weird kid from your high school shop class drew in his notebook?

Ouch! I don't even know Kevin and I feel the sting from that comment lol.

14
#5050 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Did you even read my example? it's the same damn thing. In my example. the project coordinator fudges the numbers to make production work. (basically lying about the cost of production to investors) . I've seen it before. I've seen companies fail because of this exact same thing. They think they can figure it out or find another way down the road, and it ends up killing them in the end.

Companies failing because they failed to execute (was your example) - that is not the same thing.

Then you come back and say 'execs fudge the numbers.. and then fail' - that is fraud and similar to skit-b.. and those people get sued and often go to jail.

That does not mean this is the same as investing in companies that fail - because Scenario A and Scenario B are very different. One is failure, one is fraud. Learn the #$^ difference.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 4.95
$ 400.00
Boards
Great American Pinball
$ 92.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
From: $ 7,500.00
Pinball Machine
Operation Pinball
$ 229.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 27.99
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 99.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Sales
$ 84.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 218.00
$ 209.99
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 16.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
€ 197.00
Displays
PINBALLSP
$ 28.25
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
From: $ 19.99
Playfield - Protection
Little Shop Of Games
$ 25.00
Playfield - Other
Filament Printing
$ 17.50
Hardware
Pinball Haus
$ 36.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
From: $ 5.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Medisinyl Mods
There are 18301 posts in this topic. You are on page 101 of 367.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside