Watched a friend stream his CE (with Rad-cals) unboxing a few days ago. All was looking great until the lock bar was removed and he noticed the left playfield hanger was off the receiver. Then he noticed the cabinet was cracked and the corner seam was split. Next he tried removing the backglass but the key would not turn. Closer inspection on the bottom left and right of the head had a large wood splits, so basically the head was warped. The shipper must have seriously dropped the pin to cause all the damage. Distro will make it right, but sucks to have the pin and not be able to play.

Well, I'm in! Guessing June-July time-frame for LE. My wife was like "You don't even like Guns N Roses, name three songs!"

Usually indicates a playfield leaf-switch is so close/tight that the vibration from the flipping is causing it to trigger. Go into the switch test and hit the flippers or just (gently) bang the side or pf to see which switch is triggered, then adjust to be less sensitive.

So glad I pulled the trigger last week! Just dumb luck.

Very interesting post on the POTC owners thread; states that JJP has 3000 GnRs back-ordered. This from Jack himself (supposedly). I had heard rumors that JJP sold around 3500 GnRs to date, and if there are 3000 in the queue, then 3500 in total sounds about right.

LOL, I've got those precision cutters in my cart waiting for a larger order.

Pretty much every EM made had relays that worked that way; two coils, one to latch and the other to unlatch. Single coil is just a cheaper way to implement is my guess.

My point exactly! POTC has as setup like that to raise and lower the chest forks.

I'd give Super-bands a try. The polyurethane seems to hold up much better than the silicone. More bouncy, but more durable.

The buy back thing is totally shitty because it means you have two choices, keep the pin with whatever factory defects it has, or buy it again at $1000 price increase, and also go to the back of the line. And this still doesn't guarantee you'll end up with a defect free pin. You'd be better off buying pre-owned, but that could cost even more than the NIB price. JJP is getting away with this because A) their product is in demand so they can do whatever they want, and B) many distros will buffer JJP and do more (than JJP) to keep their customers happy.

Superbands are a bit more bouncy, but by far the most durable.

I think the Cliffy set for GnR includes protection for this.

The only way JJP will comment on the pf "tearing art" issue is if the pinball media start reporting on the problem. That's what motivated them to comment back when POTC owners had issues. As for a real resolution (beyond washers), imo that would require legal action.

meSz suggested on the pf issue thread that a longer T-nut might help. I would assume the post hole size was drilled larger to accommodate the T-nut, so it seems if there was a longer T-nut (one that came close to the top of the pf), the post wobble would be significantly reduced.

I honestly don't know how JJP can get away with this shit, just unreal. Oh wait, no warranty, so I guess I do know.

My experiences in the past have also been good, but lately is seems people are having issues getting parts.

You're the first (maybe?) to report taking advantage of JJP's buy back option. Are they refunding the entire cost including shipping?

Any thoughts on replacing the black washers that (now) come pre-installed with clear PETG? I feel like clear would look better. I'm also still on the fence about adding Mylar rings in addition to the washers. Hoping for a Sept delivery!

So you would recommend removing the factory washers (black and metal) and replacing with just clear PETG? I think that makes sense.

Been there.

Just unboxed Black Night. Never touched the ground.
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Obligatory "In the club" post. LE 1818! Game was almost perfect out of the box!

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We ordered from Zach back in Jan and it just arrived yesterday. Kinda glad it took a bit longer to (hopefully) get past some of the early issues.

Hmmm, PF at 6.9 but the bubble?... LOL

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Ok, my GnR was delivered last week and I'll start by saying, wow, it was worth the ten month wait! As for NIB/delivery issues, other than adjusting the lock-down bar, the game was near perfect! But jump back some months ago when all the PF issues were coming to light and I gotta say, I was seriously considering backing out (glad I didn't).

Anyway, pre-emptively I purchased, Cliffys, PETG washers, larger T-nuts, and some B/W posts, and for the past few days I've been hopefully "bullet-proofing" the pin. But I have to say, I'm not sure any of this stuff (other than the Cliffys) is necessary. Seems like JJP has done their best to mitigate the PF issues with washers (black), lock nuts, and longer/thicker posts. It's also possible the later PFs cured longer (mine has an October manufacture date on the back edge). Only time and game play will tell, but it does seem like lately there's been fewer people posting about PF delamination.

For me, I enjoy breaking down any pin I acquire (new or old), so adding the washers and a couple longer T-nuts (what a PITA), was mostly therapeutic lol. But again, imo with these later builds I'm not sure it's necessary.

Here's some pics of my over-kill...

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Found this loose in the bottom, anyone know where it goes?

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Thanks. For those two posts (below the Axl lanes) I used the longer T-nuts, so the B/W posts won't work. Btw, the posts used by JJP are just as thick as the B/W. As for the silicon washers, it's conceivable they could do more harm than good by introducing additional movement? Anyway, I decided to pass on those. There's also the question of keeping the metal washers (which I did); they will provide more even pressure across the center of the PETG washer, but also prevent the washer from flexing up at the perimeter as much. Who really knows, we're all just guessing!
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I considered adding washers to those two posts but because the scoop bracket extends under them, I didn't think it would be necessary. I'm adding the scoop cliffy today so I'll see what can be done.

Any chance you could provide a pic?

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While we're on the subject of the washers, this is interesting. While swapping out the clear washers that came with the pin on the slings, I noticed they are not flat on the bottom. Instead, they have a raised ring in the center and outer edge. Wonder if this was by design? I can't see any advantage and I would think they might make indentations (although I didn't see any).

As an FYI, I've been putting a clear PETG washer on pretty much every post on the pin (although the black ones really do look fine) and in only one case was there any pooling, and that post was not tightened down from the factory, so it was leaning slightly and digging in to the pf from the rubber pulling.

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Shhhh, apparently we're not allowed to discuss this. It bores the important people.

I noticed that my spotlights seemed erratic and when running the test it seems like they're getting the wrong signal? For example, when they should move to the upper left, instead they move to the lower left. And when they should move to the upper right they move to the upper left. It's like they're off by one cycle? The physical linkage is good and all connectors seem fine. I did disconnect the two left side cables when I removed the upper pf but I'm pretty sure I reconnected them correctly. And regardless that would not effect the right spotlight which exhibits the same strange behavior. Any suggestions or should I just contact JJP support?

Couple questions about the Cliffys; To install the right side shooter lane cliffy, does the entire right side LED rail need to be removed? And my set of cliffy's did not come with one for the entrance to the ball trough, is that standard?

Thanks for the info!

I'm getting a hardware error: LED/PFC (ACC) Board Communication Failure. Anyone know where this board is located? Can't find any info in the manual.

Thanks, but I don't think that's the pcb in the error I'm getting. I'll contact JJP support today.

I'm guessing this is a No, but is there a setting to disable the guitar twang sound that plays whenever a ball is added during the song modes? I find it really disrupts the rhythm of the song and is not necessary since it's obvious when a ball is added.

Can't speak to any changes to the manufacturing process, but JJP is using thicker posts and washers where they deem necessary. Haven't seen anyone posting pf issues recently and my Oct build was excellent. You should be fine.

Sad but true.

Although I agree the longer t-nuts could be helpful in preventing lateral post movement, installing them is not easy. The ones I used had four large prongs and there was no way I could hammer them into the pf without doing collateral damage. I ended up pre-drilling small holes, and even then it was nerve-racking getting them flush with the underside of the pf. I decided to only do those two posts above the pops.

Was this the error? If so, most likely the mini-USB connected to the LED/PFC board (under pf, lower left) is vibrating loose. I'd reseat that connector and also the USB connectors on the motherboard.
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Same here, and half the time after hitting the target it rockets sdtm grrrrr!

Question about the magnet; is it normal that the magnet strength is not always enough to catch the ball? I've noticed when the magnet is energized, it will often slow the ball down but not catch it? It seemed to be working as expected (always catching the ball) until just recently. Just wondering if my magnet is failing (it's definitely not totally dead).

I added an additional zip-tie to the micro usb cable leading into the LED/PFC board to keep if from moving. This solved the problem for me.

You can definitely request a specific LE# and you don't even need any connections I just provided a few numbers to the distro when I placed the order and they got back to me with which one was still available (1818).

My left stage/spot light moves on both axis (so nothing is broken) but it mostly points down whereas the right spot seems mostly point straight forward, is this normal? If not, does it require a mechanical adjustment to calibrate the position? Thanks

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So simple, thanks!

I added diffusers, so there's no issue with the spots aimed into my eyes. But actually, I kinda miss that concert feel, so I may remove the diffusers.

Any suggestions on how to prevent the ball from getting stuck at the top of the bass guitar rails? If there's not enough momentum from the VUK, the ball won't make it up onto one of the three metal lanes. I don't see anyway to make the rails more flush with the wood pf and I don't think the entire upper pf angle can be changed, so I'm at a loss on how to fix this?

I'll give that a try.

My pf incline is approximately 6.8 degrees which is normal. I'm surprised nobody else is having this issue, makes me wonder what's different about my setup?

I did remove the upper pf to add post washers, but I was careful to make sure the wire form rails where seated correctly when I reinstalled the pf. Even from day one (before I removed the pf) the ball would just barely make it up onto the rails and I was concerned about the ball getting stuck. It's happened maybe a half dozen times over the past couple months, but still annoying. Otherwise playing rock solid! Super fun!

I don't think there's anything wrong with the VUK coil strength, it kicks the ball up to the bass guitar pf just fine. I was just thinking that increasing the coil strength might give the ball more momentum to get up onto the rails.

I loosened the three redirectors a bit and that seems to have helped - thanks for the suggestion PinMonk! The far right lane is still a bit iffy but the ball does make if over consistently in my testing. I guess time will tell. Thanks all!

I might be able to bend the part of the rail that hooks under the pf and remove maybe a mm or two of gap between the rail and pf. Even that small amount could help, thanks.

My pitch is 6.8 degrees which is pretty typical.

I explained to my son the patch strategy for band frenzy and using the left flipper for shooting the left ramp and within 30 minutes he put up a 116 mil score (prior GC was 52 mil). Since then I've watched him miss a 54 mil and 78 mil jackpot in the same game, so I'm guessing he'll hit 200 mil eventually. Me... never going to happen lol!

Cool! Just got mine in the mail. I didn't see any instructions included with the pinballmodz mod?

Never mind, I see there's a small card with the website for instruction.

GnR is such a unique pin in so many ways. For one thing, I can't think of any other pin where I've seen just as many on-line posts about scores that were LOST, as apposed to high scores that were achieved lol! Also, it's the only pin in my collection where I can be upstairs while my son plays and I can tell exactly what he's doing and how well the game is going. I get disappointed when he starts a song I like and then doesn't get the applause jackpot or cashes out early - I'm like "Hey, I was listening to that!"

Do you have a link to that print? Thanks!

Pretty much the same experience for me, sent an email regarding the blue snubber and got no response. Little Shop of Games is out of stock also. Thankfully mine are still good but it's only a matter of time.

I've noticed that when draining from the upper PF I'm often rewarded with two GNR letters, so getting patches is faster. I'm wondering if this is by design (some rule) or if the ball is bouncing and double-triggering the opto? Anyone else have this happen?

We would call it a tap pass. Such a difficult skill because it's different from pin to pin. You are so right about Karl, he is just incredible.

Curious if Keefer/JJP mentioned somewhere that GnR would get another update, or is this just wishful thinking?

I've been considering these for my GnR, thanks for the review. But what's up with the two smaller (unused) holes?

So that would be never lol!

Sorry, I'm just a bit cynical when it comes to POTC ever getting a code update.

Have they? As a POTC and GnR owner I would say not. But one can always hope.

Decided to give these a try on my GnR (which has the worst flipper "feel" of all my pins). Thanks for the discount!

Finally got my Precision Flippers installed! It didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped, but John provided excellent customer support and got me up and running. My son and I both agree that the Precision flippers are a vast improvement in both accuracy and strength.

Couple tips for anyone thinking about doing this on their GnR; the three bushings screws on JJP pins have small lock nuts on the back side of the flipper mech/plate. So you'll need to remove then entire mech (8 wood screws) to remove the bushings. Also, the oem upper pf flipper is 2" with a narrow tip. Precision has two mini flippers for sale but neither is an exact match; the 2" is fatter at the tip and the one with the same profile (narrow tip) is a 1/4" longer. I tried both and decided to go with the slightly longer version which looked better (imo) and maybe made the upper pf a bit easier.

The other thing I did to improve game play was adjust the orbit rail feeding into the upper right flipper. On my GnR, the rail sat about 3/16" to the left of the flipper, making the inner orbit shot very difficult. Adjusting the rail required elongating the hole for the screw on the rail mount so that it could shift closer to the flipper. This was not trivial as that rail cannot be removed without disassembling pretty much all the upper components and removing the upper pf. I ended up just removing the stuff on the right side (drum sticks and rails leading to inlane, plastics, etc), then removed enough of the orbit rail mounts to lift it about 4 inches. From there I used a small round file to enlarge the one hole in the lowest rail mount (made sure the pf was well protected while I worked). Should have taken before and after pics. Anyway, the fix makes the feed to the flipper very smooth now, and with the Precision flipper, the orbit shot works great!

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For that kind of money you would think the topper would be animated with movement in some way? I'm not saying it doesn't look cool, but that's a high price for molded/painted parts and LEDs. Also, given the static (if not falling) prices on GnR, I think he missed the boat on this one imo.

Do it! Prior to installing the Precision Flippers I would play a couple games, remember how annoying the flippers felt, and then move on to another pin. Now I'm actually enjoying GnR again!

Hey all, I searched the thread but could not find an answer to an issue we're having; GnR won't allow a song to start? When a song is qualified (screen says Start The Song), the four inserts below the scoop light up as expected, but then a few seconds later they go out except for the "song" insert. Then, when you shoot the scoop, the ball just ejects out? It's like the song mode is canceled? This will continue to repeat. Only other thing odd is occasionally we're getting auto plunges at the start of a ball. And I've noticed each time the pin boots it says "calibrating sensors" in the lower left, but maybe that's normal and I just never noticed it before? I checked the switch test and nothing is stuck on. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Yes, the song start scoop lights up green for a few seconds, then turns off.

Go into switch test mode and check that the cherry switch in the scoop is triggering correctly - drop in a ball and make sure the switch goes green. In my case, the metal tab on the cliffy (that wraps under the pf) had bent slightly and was preventing the ball from sitting flush in the hole and triggering the scoop switch.

Take a look at Spooky's Halloween and Ultraman; both have identical playfields and both were released with barely alpha code. Over the year or more of production, Spooky slowly released code updates but mostly for Halloween, and that pin has for the most part held it's value. Ultraman on the other hand has tanked and can now be had for 2-3k under MSRP. Part of that may have to do with theme (Halloween being more popular than Ultraman), but regardless, the lack of code killed Ultraman imo.

Spent some time dialing in my flippers (Precision) and now I can hit either ramp from either flipper. That, along with the suggested setting changes to help balance the multi-balls and scoring, all makes the pin so much more fun to flip!

Switched to Precision flippers - huge improvement on flipper feel and accuracy. I set my flipper angle a degree or two high - this makes it easier for the left flipper to hit the left ramp and the right flipper to hit the right ramp. For settings changes, I just followed this guide; https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/427#post-6895594

I went with "solid" for all four flippers (slightly less expensive). But I think the Halo's look really cool and may try them next.

I'm not sure the upper pf flipper adds any benefit, but I wanted all four to match. Also keep in mind that Precision does not offer an exact replacement for the upper pf flipper - they offer two versions, one is the correct length but too thick (looks weird imo), and the other is the correct thickness but 1/4" too long. I went with the longer version.

For me the install was a bit of a pain, only because I could not get the main flippers (specifically the left) to hold it's position. I've been dealing with the JJP style flipper pawls for years and I'm not a fan, they are too easy to over-tighten and bend. Regardless, I went so far as to try brand new pawls with the Precision flippers and still could not get them to hold position. In the end I returned the flippers and re-ordered the keyed style which solved the problem. I would definitely recommend the keyed clamps!

I'll also add that if you go with the Precision bushings (which I would), that will add to the install time. JJP uses small lock nuts on the underside of the flipper mounting plates, requiring that you remove the entire flipper mech from the underside (four screws) to replace the bushings.

Flippers are actually one of the easier pinball mechs to work on, so I'm sure you'll do fine. And one really nice feature of the Precision flippers is you can relatively easily adjust the angle from the top-side.

Being away on vaca (and some other life events) have kept me from playing any pinball for three weeks - first game played in my collection was GnR - such a fun pin!

This ^^^^^

I'm still loving the adjusted settings and unless JJP releases a code update (not likely) I'm sticking with them (at least for now).

Thanks for reminding me about the settings backup - I need to do that!

I've been playing GF in our league for a few months now and it's a fun pin with interesting shots. But the code and scoring is a mess and I'm pretty confident JJP will never fix the this. GnR is my last NIB JJP pin, I'm done with them.

Did you do both downloads? Going from 1.25 to 2.0 requires two downloads/updates. Although I'd be very surprised if only doing the first update caused stuff to break, but maybe?

Totally agree, with those settings changes (and Precision Flippers) I've been obsessed with playing GnR over all my other pins!

More horizontal ball movement is exactly the opposite of what I want!!!

I feel like the flipper strength is just not good on my GnR. Even with the coil setting to max, cooling fans, and Precision flippers, I still find left ramp shots often don't make it all the way up or reject when the diverter is raised. Any suggestions? Maybe I just need to rebuild the flippers mechs?

I would say your ramp shots look stronger than mine, and I'm running at max coil setting.

I've never seen an air ball lol! I'm not expecting it to flip like a Stern, but unless I hit a very clean shot, there's a good chance the ball won't make it to the upper pf. And if the diverter is up it's even harder to make it around.

From a purely financial standpoint, you'll take a significant hit (loss) on your GnR now, and likely a hit on EJ later down the road.

Def need to check the EOS switches. And then most likely rebuild. Thanks!

I'll double-check but pretty sure I'm at a typical 6.8 (or close) pitch.