In my experience, JJP machines take more dialing in out of the box than Sterns. Yes, I know, they have more stuff blah blah blah. But almost certainly a JJP machine will involve pulling the glass dozens of times in the first few weeks of ownership. It's better to expect that going into a purchase.

What are you guys scoring on GNR? 13 Million is my high so far.

What kind of feed are you guys getting from the guitar head ball locks? The left side often drops SDTM on mine, or just barely catches the tip of the right flipper. Are both sides supposed to feed the right flipper?

Yes, you don't judge a game by actually playing it, but by listening to podcasts and reading the brand name on the game.

Loosen the screws on the lane guides. Push the end by the flipper upwards and tighten all screws. This will eliminate, or at least reduce, the “flipper hop” you’re experiencing.

When you guys power up your game, do the lights all come on instantly for a few moments before shutting off for the boot sequence? Mine does this, including the hotrails, and it seems unusual.

In your toybox with GI Joe, Stretch Armstrong, and Ken dolls?

When is the magnet above the top lanes supposed to activate? I often go several games without it activating, making collecting extra balls only a matter of luck.

You unlock it by collecting the Lies Album patch, and once a song is qualified, you can select Patience as the song. Once qualified, it stays qualified for the remainder of the game.

When you start a game, before the first plunge, rotate to the Lies Album patch. You'll easily collect it (pay attention to the lane change ability of the lights on the inlanes) and can play it anytime for the rest of that game.

The scoring is out of balance right now in my opinion. Some long-playing songs score next to nothing while one song of the same length scores literally 20x a previous one. I realize the booster multiballs pump scoring (in a non-obvious way), number of balls locked perhaps affects scoring, and some patches affect the scores in song modes (how much?) but it still seems way out of balance to me. Maybe certain songs inherently score more than others? I've had what felt like great songs score 1 million and others that felt no different score 20 million, mostly just by flailing with 6 balls in play, continually autoplunging to dribble down the right sling. Point is, while it's clear a player needs to pump up the booster modes before starting a song, it's not clear how the score of any given song will be affected. It's also not clear what affect changing the song has on scoring.

Also, why are we forced to play Desert Demolition without code and risk a ball in single ball play? Maybe just award 3 million or something until the mode is programmed?

The lights, feel, look, asset use, cosmetic touches (lighted guitar pick spinners, guitar lock, bass "strings", drum sticks) of this game are great. The code needs more love still though. Most JJP games suffer from the "flail in multiball for all your points" syndrome. Dialed In doesn't, but the others do. Right now, so does GNR. Still, I feel it's JJP's best game to date and I'm glad to own it. I hope the scoring gets reworked a bit though. And for the literally dozens upon dozens of autoplunges per game, I wish the shooter lane fed differently.

I understand a lot of what you're saying and know how the rules work (short of the actual scoring math), but there seems to be a disconnect of what a song will be potentially worth when started. As a game goes long, and extra balls are awarded, and more songs are played, each one seems to be worth more than the last. Those games I blow up. I just put up 40-some million game but none of my songs varied much from one another in hit shots, balls added, or time played. But, the later songs scored WAY higher than the earlier songs with similar performance in each of them (10+ million point songs vs. 1 million point songs). While this is fine, it's not abundantly clear why it's happening except that more songs equals more extra balls which lead to more songs worth more points.

Also, yeah, you finish an album and are forced into single-ball modes (which is great really because too much multiball is a drag), but it's like a penalty because the risk is high and the scoring is low. Same for qualifying Slash solo. Cool side mode but risky and not worth many points. When the game's primary focus is on score, like this one is (which is awesome - it's pinball, not a video game), the path to higher scores should be presented more clearly and players shouldn't be locked into low scoring modes as a "reward". Make those album modes worth at least what the qualifying song jackpot was or more.

Lastly, as with many JJP games, it's not always clear what shot needs to be hit because everything is lit all the time. Most songs are okay but there have been times when I've trapped up and literally couldn't see what needed hit next in a song. This could be improved.

My games seem to be in the 3 - 8 million range, or over 30 million. The scores escalate very quickly if you earn enough extra balls to keep playing more songs. But early in the game, for the first song or two, points are minimal, even with boosting the songs via the multiball booster modes.

Anyone else have their magnet fail? The solenoid for the magnet by the top lanes has a resistor "rigged" inline to it (under the coil wrapper, taped to the coil), and mine failed, making the magnet not work (no continuity). This makes the game rough as the ball never drops into the top lanes (to collect extra balls or Axl letters). Also, my lower right hotrail isn't working. Anyone else seeing these issues?

I own JP LE and GNR LE, so here's my opinion:
They shoot very different from one another, and the rules are very different as well.
GNR has a great rock n roll theme, great call outs, lights, sounds, etc. Really perfect theme integration and loads of nice touches. I haven't played a standard GNR but know for sure I'd miss the upper playfield (best rules of the game involve it) and the colored hotrails (a big part of the overall effect of the light show). You really need to be okay with more multiball play than single-ball play though. Just the nature of the GNR rules. The whole point is to maximize "song" ball save time, and maximize locked balls before starting a song. Once in the song, the ball save can go on for a minute or more, with up to a 6-ball multiball, plus add-a-balls can keep qualifying so you generally wind up with multiball sessions of 3 - 5 minutes for each song. Also the build-up to the song (where you collect band members and boost the song mode scoring), has 4 different multiball modes, each of which can be qualified before EACH song you play, and they all stack. Plus there's tour multiball once qualified.

So, GNR is great fun and unique in a lot of ways but yes, it's very multiball heavy. Cashing out for a huge jackpot after a long MB session is certainly rewarding (don't drain that last ball before collecting).

You already know that JP is a shot-making game with several paths to good scores, with a great balance of single-ball vs. multiball play.

If JP is your favorite game ever, maybe play some GNR before committing. They will be making them for a long time and the code will continue to get updates surely over time, improving the game. Don't overlook the importance of the upper playfield on GNR....it completely changes the game for the better.

The ball is deflecting off the wireform ("catwalk") when it exits the left guitar lock. Bending the guide on the guitar lock itself won't help. A piece of foam adhered to the wireform helped mine go SDTM a lot less.

I agree completely. Another "award" that's a penalty, like the album modes currently (and Slash solo). I feel like you should also be able to cancel playing a song even if you hit the scoop when it's lit as sometimes band members get spotted and you get a bounce into the scoop before boosting. Scoring needs quite a bit of balance in general. It also seems like song scoring isn't reset between songs or something. Games I play more than 2 or 3 songs, the later songs are worth crazy high points, when the first song or two, even with 6 balls locked and booster modes played, score next to nothing. Maybe this is by design, and if so, the single-ball modes are even more worthless because the only big points are in songs, after you've played a few of them.

Yes. There is a resistor taped (literally) to the magnet coil that fails. You can bypass it (remove the resistor from the coil) and/or contact JJP for a replacement.

Yep, cut the wrapper, remove the resistor, attached with black tape under the coil wrapper, wrap winding on lug instead of the resistor. Magnet will work again.

Extra balls are next to impossible without the magnet.

The original Attack From Mars is WAY faster than any JJP game and it’s not even close. How on earth is that even debatable? JJP games are fun and “loaded” and all that, but “fast”, they are not.

Those left ramp targets are brutal no doubt! Straight to the outlanes often! And yes, the time to react to those hits is basically nil.

AFM (original WPC) just has those slingshots that literally throw the ball back and forth, and alien targets that give big airballs, screaming fast orbits, etc.

JJP slings and flippers are way softer in comparison. Sluggish even.

I didn’t mean the “rubbers” or silicone junk JJP uses is softer, I meant the slingshots kick softer, and the flippers have that JJP soft, mushy feel compared to WPC games or Stern SAM/SPIKE.

Serious question: How many lights is enough? Someone actually mentioned using Pinstadiums in addition to the hotrails. I guess adding stuff (more lights, toppers, toppers with speakers, dolls, stickers, subwoofers, etc.) just to add stuff becomes a big part of the hobby for many people. I'm surprised how many people focus on this stuff rather than gameplay.

Anyway, anyone else having the thermal fuse on the magnet fail (causing the magnet not to work)? Can't believe I'd be the only one as it happened twice on my machine already in a couple hundred plays. It's very noticeable as the top lanes become very difficult to collect, making extra balls near impossible and songs requiring top lanes to be hard to advance. I wish they would have used a gate up there instead of this problematic magnet.

HA! That was my post originally. It's a thermal fuse, actually, not a resistor. Nonetheless, it is failing causing the magnet not to work, and after the second thermal fuse failure on my game (they sent me a new one when my original failed), I would guess they have a bad batch of thermal fuses or something in the code is keeping the magnet energized too long causing the failure. Maybe during a certain song mode where top lanes are needed and ball save lasts a minute or more (possibly keeping the magnet activated for a long stretch and over-heating). Not sure if people are playing the games yet, or still just modding them but it seems like this would be a wider-spread issue.

So it's actually a thermal fuse (I mistakenly thought it was a resistor originally because I've never seen a coil that is thermal fused), so a lower power coil won't help. They must have fused the coil in case it gets too hot through overuse. Mine blew twice on play sessions that were only a game or two so either the coil is under-fused (design flaw), over-used via software (bad code somewhere), or they have bad fuses. Hopefully they find the root cause soon.

I bypassed the fuse after my first one went, and it was working fine. When the new coil arrived, I put that in, only for it to fail again within a few games. My gut feeling is it's locking on too long during a certain song mode that is played long (or some other game situation that doesn't happen every game).

Maybe we need a Pin Monk fan on that coil!

On my original coil, I removed the wrapper and the black wrap (tape basically) to expose the thermal fuse. One end of the coil winding is attached to the fuse, and then the fuse to the coil lug. Removing the fuse from the coil and connecting the coil winding to the lug (like it normally would be on an un-fused coil), allowed the game to be played and the magnet worked perfect. Now, I'm not sure if the magnet could overheat and causing a short, perhaps taking out a board component, so when the new parts arrived, I put those in (only to have it fail again rather quickly). They sent the coil (with the fuse under the wrapper) and the metal shaft that magnetizes (comes up through the playfield). So you solder in the new coil assembly like any other coil.

Here's my original

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Bypassed like this.....

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Yeah, I figured people were missing this maybe (the magnet not working). It's a problem for collecting extra balls, or Axl lanes, because there is no gate up there.

Patches are harder to collect on the LE. Falling off the top playfield (through the hole below the flipper) spots an inlane lettere but it's not a safe return to the flipper. Other times, a ball is locked in the guitar head or shot to the bass VUK, neither of which spots a patch lane. It seems like patches would be rather simple on the SE; trap up and backhand the ramp.

You need to use the lane change function as the ball enters the inlane to collect the patches. The switch requirements don't increase. Pay attention to lane change via the flippers and you'll see how it works.

Good thought on the collect Axl patch, which is very hard without a working magnet. JJP needs a fix for this ASAP.

And the 4 sponsor patches to light extra ball are blue.

Or maybe JJP can figure out what’s wrong with the code. This same magnet was used in Wonka with no issue. Now it’s failing quickly, and impacting gameplay (top lanes are too hard to collect). My guess is the endless multiballs keep it energized too long but that’s only a guess. I’ve had 2 fail quickly and don’t see the point of putting in another until they figure this out.

Brian,

Hey, hope all's well. I got my game with 1.08 on it so I'm not sure about earlier code. It's not worth putting in a new coil (or thermal fuse) until they find the root cause. The left ramp diverter seems to get over-worked too. That one doesn't have a thermal fuse. If it did, it would be failing too because that one gets hot.

Test for continuity on the coil lugs. No continuity means the thermal fuse blew.

I can tell you for sure that the device permanently fails (to open...no continuity).

I suspect this is to keep the magnet pole that goes through the playfield from discoloring the playfield with heat, as this device is not on the other coils on the game. And they use the same one for the playfield magnet in Wonka. Weird that someone from JJP doesn't just say what the problem is. Has to be over-use of the coil for the rating of the thermal fuse.

I believe the higher the flipper setting, the faster they will heat up to the point of fading power.

I wonder if JJP will ever get their flippers right....I really hope so. When they were founded, they were proud of the fact they were using Williams mechs to bring back that 90s Williams feel, and it isn't even close, even when they aren't over-heated.

Sounds like Mr. Brownstone ended before you collected the song jackpot. Once it says "applause jackpot ready" or something like that, you don't have much time to collect before the song times out. You get encore if you finish (not necessarily cash out) a song with the power meter on full.

They need to do a better job communicating this situation during gameplay....a countdown to applause time-out or something.

Take the first extra ball by cashing out and go for deeper songs/more points on the next song. Later in the game, songs seem to be worth more anyway. So why not take the extra ball (especially if your magnet works so you can easily collect it) and then re-qualify another song?

Lights extra ball, so it helps if your magnet works.

Oh I know but with no gates up top most shots make the full orbit and don’t drop in any lanes. And pop hits turn off the lit extra momentarily so it’s hard to hit it through the pops.

But the lunch IS free when the magnet works because orbit shots activate the magnet, dropping the ball into the extra ball lane.

My main point is that if your magnet isn’t working, extra balls are a lot harder to collect. So, choosing to light extra ball vs. continue a song on ball 3 is a very different decision based on a working magnet or not.

This has to be sarcasm, right? If not.....ugg

I haven't heard anyone from JJP say they had a fix for the magnet. I'm not sure we can claim the majority of people haven't had the issue. I'd guess that's not the case. A lot of people don't seem to realize it isn't working until they specifically pay attention to it (being a new game with so much going on). I would not assume tomorrow's code-drop will fix this.

I'm not saying that, I'm just saying we can't assume that it's only a few. I had 2 fail, each within a few games of play. Most people don't know to look for it because they don't know what to expect in gameplay as the game is new. Also, how many of the 1,000 new owners are posting here actively? A few percent maybe? Unless a few of the fuses were bad, I think it's safe to assume the magnet is over-used in this game (or at least with current coding), causing the overheated coil. The diverter coil and flipper coils are overheating too, but they aren't fused. The fuse seems to be to protect the playfield from discoloring due to heat. I find it hard to believe that only a few have the issue for these reasons.

The magnet grabs the ball on orbit shots, dropping in through the center lane up top and into the pop bumpers. Extra balls are collected this well, as is Axl. There are no gates at the top to drop the ball into the pops, just the magnet.

Thanks! I'm sure they'll figure it out. I haven't lost a wink of sleep over it!

You are cycling the lights on the lanes, like any other game, except there are multiple lights in each lane. So if you have 2 lights lit on one lane and 1 each on the others, you can move the 2 lights around. Pay closer attention or mess with it with the glass off and it will become apparent.

Fender, Gibson, Marshall, Vater. If still early in the game, then panties and bra, but don't bother if it's later in the game.

What? Kidding I assume?

If it popped the transistor, surely that means the coil shorted so it's toast. They're going to need to do something with the code for the magnet and the diverter because the hardware is under-engineered for the long multiball play on GNR. Flipper fade is a problem too.

Uh, maybe, but the magnets are definitely overheating and blowing the thermal fuse, and the diverter coil gets super hot during play after a couple games only, so why wouldn't it keep getting hotter to the point of shorting? Maybe they can dial back usage of both these coils in the code.

Go under the hood after a one hour session and feel your diverter coil (on a CE or LE) and you'll maybe be convinced.

JJP Fanboy notice: everyone bust out their dmm and check the resistance of each coil in the machine, before each game, and between balls. No big deal. Coils get hot. Nothing to see here. Look at all the lights!

Super-Bands outlast any/all silicone.

Marco or Cointaker

Why are you guys updating to a known major-bug (resets) code version? Probably best to wait this one out a bit until they, you know, actually test a new code revision. How many revs in a row is this that have a crash bug?

I'm waiting until Desert Demolition is coded and hopefully a fix for the magnet code before I update from 1.08. Nothing but a headache for virtually no gain the past few weeks on code. These mini updates seem useless, as all they are doing is fixing newly introduced bugs.

To a fanboy like you, I suppose. I'm just pragmatic and can actually see both the good side and bad side of things. I know owners threads are supposed to be all positive hype to some people, but honest discussion is okay imo. And yes, I own the game and like the game. Have you even played it yet?

I AM being patient, that was my point. The updates that add a couple lighting effects, but introduce new bugs, seem pointless. I personally like the less-frequent, bigger updates that fix bugs AND add content, and that are pre-tested for major bugs before release. To each their own. Just a discussion as there are dozens of pages of posts of people trying to update the game with no new content in the updates so they keep going in circles chasing the latest bug fix. It's okay to wait out these minor updates.

If you are certain you want it new-in-box and don't care how long the wait is, a deposit now may be a good idea. A refundable one is best because you may want to pick up a HUO example if one pops up near you before you can get a new-in-box. Oftentimes, a HUO game is better than new-in-box. Or, a different distributor than the one you have a deposit tied up with may have some availability well before your game would be ready.

Most JJP games have some lingering stock at distributors after their run. Some JJP games are re-run to meet demand. It's hard to say with this one. My guess is that they would re-run it if there is continued demand as it seems the licenser (GNR) would not limit them time-wise based on their strong involvement in the production of this machine.

Ah, didn't know that. I would personally then wait for the first one available, which may take quite some time, but you would at least have flexibility. Surely there will be quite a few popping up HUO after people play them out a bit.

Not a switch. It permanently fails open.

JJP hasn’t said why they are failing or what the fix is, and haven’t acknowledged the problem on Pinside. The best way to test it is to check for continuity across the magnet’s coil lugs. No continuity means the fuse has popped.

What the ball closely as it drops from the left lock release. It is probably hitting the habitrail and deflecting towards the middle. Adhering a piece of felt or such onto the wireform can help.

Use the lockbar button color as a clue

It’s probably rather widespread and people don’t know it. When it works properly the magnet grabs a ball hit to the orbits and drops it down the center top lane. I suspect that the long multiball modes are over-working it causing the failure. JJP quickly replaced my first one, and the new one failed after a game or two. I haven’t bothered again because they need a permanent fix (either via hardware or software).

Maybe JJP will eventually have a fix for this, but they sure aren’t acknowledging it openly yet.

Which is what I did with the first 3 issues with my game. BUT, many people are posting "when does the magnet activate"? So should those questions be ignored by those of us that know? Should I just post GOTY videos all day long? Sometimes, when there is a known issue (let's say the spinner on LZ), a company says "we realize there's an issue and we're working on a fix". Some companies don't I suppose. But, wow, one can't talk objectively about a JJP problem without the fanboys taking offense. Every single time. Owners of the game are asking questions and the question is being answered here.

I'm takin' it easy Mr. Fanboy. Enjoy your game and I'll try to be less offensive.

I'm sure they will too. No one, including myself, is saying that they won't. Just discussing a problem in an owner's thread.

The “rubbers” are silicone and are junk. Better quality parts are available.

Test for continuity across the two coil lugs. No continuity means failed thermal fuse, and therefore no magnet.

Use a deep socket on a ratchet, 3/4". Those lock washers are a bugger otherwise.

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_c5bf (resized).jpg

What "variety of other multiballs" can be stacked with song modes?

Huh?

Those are pre-song multiballs. I asked Panzer what variety of multiballs can be stacked with song modes.

Each band member you collect enables one lock on the upper playfield.

GNR LE.....left flipper switch. Is this wire supposed to be connected to the switch?

dOSNNdQ3QaibhABM%Ob5ow_thumb_c7f5 (resized).jpg

Thanks

Where are the code updates for GNR?? Nothing but bug fixes (and some new ones introduced) and minor tweaks for 6 months +. Song mode scoring is cryptic at best, other modes are worthless and risky, code is still buggy, no desert demolition mode yet, coils overheating, etc...

Yep, I’ve been waiting months for another magnet coil. I have owned the LE for 6 months and have had a working magnet for a day or two. No word from JJP on this issue (has it been fixed in the software? Was there a huge batch of defective thermal fuses?) of course.

No substantial code updates since the game was released really. It seems excessively long to me between updates.

Yep, 0 for 2 on magnet thermal "switches" too, haven't gotten another replacement even though I've requested one several times. Also can't get the code to update after multiple tries. JJP machines are a huge pain in the ass basically. Yes, I realize you can spend all day on Pinside learning all the ins and outs of each release and trying to bullet-proof the machine with washers/fans/etc.

Honestly, I maintain all my own games, do playfield swaps, etc. JJP games are uniquely troublesome for "new" games imo. And who does one pay to make the code update like it is supposed to? And why should it be this way?

So any tips on doing the full code update via USB? Followed the directions twice and both times get "Missing operating system. Reboot and select proper Boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key" on the small playfield screen.

Yes. Using a mac, and an 8 GB USB. Here's what is on the USB....

IMG_5860 (resized).jpg