(Topic ID: 278791)

The Official JJP GnR Owners Thread

By Dallas_Pin

10 months ago


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#11301 48 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

[quoted image]Hey all, been getting a lot of PM requests on PETG washers...the how many, where, why etc questions.
To make it easier on me, thought I'd type up a little memo summary for reference. I'll add more to this if new updates happen or change.
Issue: Playfield pooling, chipping, art tearing
Cause: Clearcoat, loose posts, overtorqued posts, bent washers, metal washers, no washers, too small washers
Fix: Debateable but for me, the best solution is PETG. The runner up is Cliffy carbon. The only reason the Cliffy is ranked 2nd is that it is adhesive (most likely permanent, possibly tearing up art if removed, covers up existing surrounding art near damage, requires a metal washer on top of it for true protection. Whereas the clear PETG provides enough rigidness to stand alone, can see underlying art clearly, can be easily removed, can be easily cut and fabricated to fit.
Results: My results and pics have all held up 1000+ plays post fixing. I am not guaranteeing this for everyone as all the playfields seem to vary, but from others feedback, this seems to be the best method currently. I am providing this for those who wish to continue to play their game while preserving what is there without further damage and repairing what may already be. This isn't to debate pooling or why or why not we should have to fix our $$$ machines.
Parts Needed:
20 - 25 clear 3/4 inch PETG washers. They can be obtained from many sources but my goto has been Pinball Life https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html
You can also find colored ones from Titan pinball https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=134&search=washerand use them in special areas...The upper playfield for example, I used a blue 3/4 inch for example.. See pic below
[quoted image]
5 clear 7/8 inch PETG washers. Used sparingly on some areas to cover more art area or to fit flush against other machine washers, rails or posts to give extra rigidity.
Tools Needed:
Long skinny hex drivers (sold at most big box hardware stores in kits)
Long skinny phillips head driver to reach areas under ramps
Small wrenches to get into tight areas
Telescoping magnet tool for parts retrieval https://www.pinballlife.com/telescoping-magnet-tool.html
Vinyl Iron kit amazon.com link »
The Process and fix:
(***Disclaimer - any modifications done are solely at the discretion of the owner and I do not take responsibility for over ironing, or further damage to your playfield employing the methods below)
1. Unfortunately, there isn't a hard fast rule for preventing or stopping the pooling and chipping if left untouched. I'm just relaying my best possible solution fix that has held up for over 1000+ plays now after my applied fixes and still going strong with no spreading wear or new areas of pooling around new washers.
2. You can take a complete "protect it all" method straight out of the box or just protect the easier to tackle posts and employ a monitor fix methodology. I started seeing pooling at around 25 plays and started employing my techniques until around 250 plays. From that point I had no further damage and employed 29 new washers (and or larger metal replacements). Yes, you read that correctly 29. But, most are hidden from view and the clear PETG is the other advantage. You can cover large areas and multiple washers and it doesn't fill your playfield with unsightly washers. Here is a sample (some - not all of some of the problem areas I have had). https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4pdonoGuVuEIqsBgtvZatV44oSnM2201uhGO_RYpcWJqY59vya8bPQ5-JNP0WDw?key=TkVjVngyMWhISTJZN05Mb1huLUloNjZiZ0tzV2dR
3. Technique:
a. Examine. What do you need to fix? Take a close look and document it all. Tackle the posts you can get to, save other areas for small projects. For example, you can combine removing the upper playfield to
Install cliffy scoop protectors
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/150#post-6197148 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/171#post-6243689, and while you're at it, install all the PETG you can.
b. Document and record. Take pictures. Label if necessary. When disassembling ramp areas or a new part, I lay the parts out in a line as I remove them so that I can work backwards and forwards for various stages of assembly and clearly see what screws and washers go where and when. It's a simple technique but very helpful once you have a bunch of various screws and washers of different shapes and sizes.
c. Trial fit. Lay out your fixes first. Determine what you need. A couple clear washers? A clear and a metal? A larger metal? What fits what and where? I try to always but up a washer against another surface if I can to give the washer support. See the pic below as an example. Notice the post on the left ...here is where I used a 7/8 washer that sits against the inlane guiderail spacer. More support, less risk of movement and stress.
[quoted image]
d. Apply Iron fix technique. Yelobird and Buffalo pinball provided great step by steps and videos for this process.
Yelobird method
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands
Buffalo Pinball video

I allow my areas to cool to the touch after about 30 minutes and then apply the washers. I don't wait extended periods of time...maybe an hour max before reapplying the washers and this hasn't resulted in any mushy clear or repooling.
Some areas, I could not fit a 3/4 inch PETG so I upgraded those areas to a larger metal washer or cut a sliver off the PETG (they cut very well with scissors and do not fracture or crack..I also used a file on some to notch an area, the inlane washer near the AMP GNR lanes for example.
I also fabricated some of the clear PETG (cut slits, or cut portions of) to fit next to other metal posts or rails.
[quoted image]
e. Hand assemble posts back in position. Do not over tighten!!!! Can't stress this enough The PETG allows minor flexing and you should be able to get a very snug tight rigid fit of your post without "cranking down the post". The washer then provides very little contact with the playfield and doesn't dig in like the smaller metal washers do. See the pic below, the black circle around the post shows you the point of direct contact the washer makes with the playfield.
[quoted image]
f. Reassemble. Work slowly and backwards using the parts in reverse order that you have lined up, following your documentation and pics if necessary. Use the right tool for the right job. Don't force something if it's not correct. Use proper hex drivers and screw drivers for specific areas. The last thing you want is a stripped thread, or screw or nut that no longer functions or makes the issue worse. Worse yet, damaging areas or the playfield or assemblies trying to force something.
f. Inspect your work after every 10 plays. Keep an eye on areas you fixed and always look out for new areas and apply the fixes accordingly and soon.
g. You will eventually arrive at a custom stopping point for your machine that will result in no further damage or pooling and you can finally start to enjoy the machine again. Take your time and have "Patience" - yes pun intended.
Please let me know if this helped you and if there is anything you'd like me to add or change.
Thanks a bunch and happy flipping!

Holy crap! Thank you for all the effort you put into this post!!

#11302 48 days ago
Quoted from frobozz:

If the sensors are also not working (as your picture showed), definitely something wrong with that board or associated stuff. Did the USB cable fall out there or up in the head? Does the LED on the board blink? Fast or slow? When you turn the game on, do all the LEDs come on in their test mode?

You were right. The culprit turned out to be one loose connector behind the monitor near the motherboard. Back going again. Thanks for all of the feedback.

20210616_120332 (resized).jpg20210616_120336 (resized).jpg
#11303 48 days ago
Quoted from daveyvandy:

Holy crap! Thank you for all the effort you put into this post!!

You are welcome!

#11304 48 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

[quoted image]Hey all, been getting a lot of PM requests on PETG washers...the how many, where, why etc questions.
To make it easier on me, thought I'd type up a little memo summary for reference. I'll add more to this if new updates happen or change.
Issue: Playfield pooling, chipping, art tearing
Cause: Clearcoat, loose posts, overtorqued posts, bent washers, metal washers, no washers, too small washers
Fix: Debateable but for me, the best solution is PETG. The runner up is Cliffy carbon. The only reason the Cliffy is ranked 2nd is that it is adhesive (most likely permanent, possibly tearing up art if removed, covers up existing surrounding art near damage, requires a metal washer on top of it for true protection. Whereas the clear PETG provides enough rigidness to stand alone, can see underlying art clearly, can be easily removed, can be easily cut and fabricated to fit.
Results: My results and pics have all held up 1000+ plays post fixing. I am not guaranteeing this for everyone as all the playfields seem to vary, but from others feedback, this seems to be the best method currently. I am providing this for those who wish to continue to play their game while preserving what is there without further damage and repairing what may already be. This isn't to debate pooling or why or why not we should have to fix our $$$ machines.
Parts Needed:
20 - 25 clear 3/4 inch PETG washers. They can be obtained from many sources but my goto has been Pinball Life https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html
You can also find colored ones from Titan pinball https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=134&search=washerand use them in special areas...The upper playfield for example, I used a blue 3/4 inch for example.. See pic below
[quoted image]
5 clear 7/8 inch PETG washers. Used sparingly on some areas to cover more art area or to fit flush against other machine washers, rails or posts to give extra rigidity.
Set of various metal washers. Should be standard in any pinball repair arsenal but here's a link if you don't have any:
amazon.com link »
[quoted image]
Tools Needed:
Long skinny hex drivers (sold at most big box hardware stores in kits)
Long skinny phillips head driver to reach areas under ramps
Small wrenches to get into tight areas
Telescoping magnet tool for parts retrieval https://www.pinballlife.com/telescoping-magnet-tool.html
Vinyl Iron kit amazon.com link »
The Process and fix:
(***Disclaimer - any modifications done are solely at the discretion of the owner and I do not take responsibility for over ironing, or further damage to your playfield employing the methods below)
1. Unfortunately, there isn't a hard fast rule for preventing or stopping the pooling and chipping if left untouched. I'm just relaying my best possible solution fix that has held up for over 1000+ plays now after my applied fixes and still going strong with no spreading wear or new areas of pooling around new washers.
2. You can take a complete "protect it all" method straight out of the box or just protect the easier to tackle posts and employ a monitor fix methodology. I started seeing pooling at around 25 plays and started employing my techniques until around 250 plays. From that point I had no further damage and employed 29 new washers (and or larger metal replacements). Yes, you read that correctly 29. But, most are hidden from view and the clear PETG is the other advantage. You can cover large areas and multiple washers and it doesn't fill your playfield with unsightly washers. Here is a sample (some - not all of some of the problem areas I have had). https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4pdonoGuVuEIqsBgtvZatV44oSnM2201uhGO_RYpcWJqY59vya8bPQ5-JNP0WDw?key=TkVjVngyMWhISTJZN05Mb1huLUloNjZiZ0tzV2dR
3. Technique:
a. Examine. What do you need to fix? Take a close look and document it all. Tackle the posts you can get to, save other areas for small projects. For example, you can combine removing the upper playfield to
Install cliffy scoop protectors
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/150#post-6197148 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/171#post-6243689, and while you're at it, install all the PETG you can.
b. Document and record. Take pictures. Label if necessary. When disassembling ramp areas or a new part, I lay the parts out in a line as I remove them so that I can work backwards and forwards for various stages of assembly and clearly see what screws and washers go where and when. It's a simple technique but very helpful once you have a bunch of various screws and washers of different shapes and sizes.
c. Trial fit. Lay out your fixes first. Determine what you need. A couple clear washers? A clear and a metal? A larger metal? What fits what and where? I try to always butt up a washer against another surface if I can to give the washer support. See the pic below as an example. Notice the post on the left ...here is where I used a 7/8 washer that sits against the inlane guiderail spacer. More support, less risk of movement and stress.
[quoted image]
d. Apply Iron fix technique. Yelobird and Buffalo pinball provided great step by steps and videos for this process.
Yelobird method
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands
Buffalo Pinball video

I allow my areas to cool to the touch after about 30 minutes and then apply the washers. I don't wait extended periods of time...maybe an hour max before reapplying the washers and this hasn't resulted in any mushy clear or repooling.
Some areas, I could not fit a 3/4 inch PETG so I upgraded those areas to a larger metal washer or cut a sliver off the PETG (they cut very well with scissors and do not fracture or crack..I also used a file on some to notch an area, the inlane washer near the AMP GNR lanes for example.
I also fabricated some of the clear PETG (cut slits, or cut portions of) to fit next to other metal posts or rails.
[quoted image]
e. Hand assemble posts back in position. I use hand tools and the 2 finger and a thumb tightening rule, that way it's snug yet not cranked down. Remember, the longer the tool, the more torque applied with the same force. Do not over tighten!!!! Can't stress this enough The PETG allows minor flexing and you should be able to get a very snug tight rigid fit of your post without "cranking down the post". The washer then provides very little contact with the playfield and doesn't dig in like the smaller metal washers do. See the pic below, the black circle around the post shows you the point of direct contact the washer makes with the playfield.
[quoted image]
f. Reassemble. Work slowly and backwards using the parts in reverse order that you have lined up, following your documentation and pics if necessary. Use the right tool for the right job. Don't force something if it's not correct. Use proper hex drivers and screw drivers for specific areas. The last thing you want is a stripped thread, or screw or nut that no longer functions or makes the issue worse. Worse yet, damaging areas or the playfield or assemblies trying to force something.
g. Protect while working. Use thick microfiber towels to protect the playfield from falling parts, and also to brace parts away from each other. Disassembling a ramp for example or partially removing the upper playfield. The towel can cushion and support the piece temporarily without scuffing or damaging other parts of the game.
h. Inspect your work after every 10 plays. Keep an eye on areas you fixed and always look out for new areas and apply the fixes accordingly and soon.
i. You will eventually arrive at a custom stopping point for your machine that will result in no further damage or pooling and you can finally start to enjoy the machine again. Take your time and have "Patience" - yes pun intended.
Please let me know if this helped you and if there is anything you'd like me to add or change.
At the end of the day, remember, it's about playing the game, not inspecting every square inch with a microscope. Hopefully these fixes will allow your anger to fade over time and bring back the true enjoyment this game can give. This is my view from a player's perspective. Washer's and all!
Thanks a bunch and happy flipping!
[quoted image]

This is fantastic info. WOW!!! Great job. A friend is bringing his CE over my house soon and we are doing both my CE and his at the same time. This detailed info you just shared will help tremendously!

#11305 48 days ago
Quoted from rockrand:

This is what is did better then nothing,nylon sleeve reduced to a snug fit
[quoted image]

Looks great. That should really cut down on the movement. What's the size, so JJP can implement it as a stopgap measure.

#11306 48 days ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Did almost similar, but also took a longer post. So it extend more under the playfield. Even going to add another nut on there. Now it can't move anymore. Ordered longer posts for the rest too.
[quoted image]

Sounds pretty Need
What kind of Post you used? Can you give us a Link?

#11307 48 days ago

Thanks fooflighter for the detailed post. Much appreciated

14
#11308 48 days ago

Finally got the call today, 10/9 order direct with JJP, ETA around Friday or Monday for my GNR LE!!!

#11309 48 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

[quoted image]Hey all, been getting a lot of PM requests on PETG washers...the how many, where, why etc questions.
To make it easier on me, thought I'd type up a little memo summary for reference. I'll add more to this if new updates happen or change.
Issue: Playfield pooling, chipping, art tearing
Cause: Clearcoat, loose posts, overtorqued posts, bent washers, metal washers, no washers, too small washers
Fix: Debateable but for me, the best solution is PETG. The runner up is Cliffy carbon. The only reason the Cliffy is ranked 2nd is that it is adhesive (most likely permanent, possibly tearing up art if removed, covers up existing surrounding art near damage, requires a metal washer on top of it for true protection. Whereas the clear PETG provides enough rigidness to stand alone, can see underlying art clearly, can be easily removed, can be easily cut and fabricated to fit.
Results: My results and pics have all held up 1000+ plays post fixing. I am not guaranteeing this for everyone as all the playfields seem to vary, but from others feedback, this seems to be the best method currently. I am providing this for those who wish to continue to play their game while preserving what is there without further damage and repairing what may already be. This isn't to debate pooling or why or why not we should have to fix our $$$ machines.
Parts Needed:
20 - 25 clear 3/4 inch PETG washers. They can be obtained from many sources but my goto has been Pinball Life https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html
You can also find colored ones from Titan pinball https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=134&search=washerand use them in special areas...The upper playfield for example, I used a blue 3/4 inch for example.. See pic below
[quoted image]
5 clear 7/8 inch PETG washers. Used sparingly on some areas to cover more art area or to fit flush against other machine washers, rails or posts to give extra rigidity.
Set of various metal washers. Should be standard in any pinball repair arsenal but here's a link if you don't have any:
amazon.com link »
[quoted image]
Tools Needed:
Long skinny hex drivers (sold at most big box hardware stores in kits)
Long skinny phillips head driver to reach areas under ramps
Small wrenches to get into tight areas
Telescoping magnet tool for parts retrieval https://www.pinballlife.com/telescoping-magnet-tool.html
Vinyl Iron kit amazon.com link »
The Process and fix:
(***Disclaimer - any modifications done are solely at the discretion of the owner and I do not take responsibility for over ironing, or further damage to your playfield employing the methods below)
1. Unfortunately, there isn't a hard fast rule for preventing or stopping the pooling and chipping if left untouched. I'm just relaying my best possible solution fix that has held up for over 1000+ plays now after my applied fixes and still going strong with no spreading wear or new areas of pooling around new washers.
2. You can take a complete "protect it all" method straight out of the box or just protect the easier to tackle posts and employ a monitor fix methodology. I started seeing pooling at around 25 plays and started employing my techniques until around 250 plays. From that point I had no further damage and employed 29 new washers (and or larger metal replacements). Yes, you read that correctly 29. But, most are hidden from view and the clear PETG is the other advantage. You can cover large areas and multiple washers and it doesn't fill your playfield with unsightly washers. Here is a sample (some - not all of some of the problem areas I have had). https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4pdonoGuVuEIqsBgtvZatV44oSnM2201uhGO_RYpcWJqY59vya8bPQ5-JNP0WDw?key=TkVjVngyMWhISTJZN05Mb1huLUloNjZiZ0tzV2dR
3. Technique:
a. Examine. What do you need to fix? Take a close look and document it all. Tackle the posts you can get to, save other areas for small projects. For example, you can combine removing the upper playfield to
Install cliffy scoop protectors
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/150#post-6197148 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/171#post-6243689, and while you're at it, install all the PETG you can.
b. Document and record. Take pictures. Label if necessary. When disassembling ramp areas or a new part, I lay the parts out in a line as I remove them so that I can work backwards and forwards for various stages of assembly and clearly see what screws and washers go where and when. It's a simple technique but very helpful once you have a bunch of various screws and washers of different shapes and sizes.
c. Trial fit. Lay out your fixes first. Determine what you need. A couple clear washers? A clear and a metal? A larger metal? What fits what and where? I try to always butt up a washer against another surface if I can to give the washer support. See the pic below as an example. Notice the post on the left ...here is where I used a 7/8 washer that sits against the inlane guiderail spacer. More support, less risk of movement and stress.
[quoted image]
d. Apply Iron fix technique. Yelobird and Buffalo pinball provided great step by steps and videos for this process.
Yelobird method
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands
Buffalo Pinball video

I allow my areas to cool to the touch after about 30 minutes and then apply the washers. I don't wait extended periods of time...maybe an hour max before reapplying the washers and this hasn't resulted in any mushy clear or repooling.
Some areas, I could not fit a 3/4 inch PETG so I upgraded those areas to a larger metal washer or cut a sliver off the PETG (they cut very well with scissors and do not fracture or crack..I also used a file on some to notch an area, the inlane washer near the AMP GNR lanes for example.
I also fabricated some of the clear PETG (cut slits, or cut portions of) to fit next to other metal posts or rails.
[quoted image]
e. Hand assemble posts back in position. I use hand tools and the 2 finger and a thumb tightening rule, that way it's snug yet not cranked down. Remember, the longer the tool, the more torque applied with the same force. Do not over tighten!!!! Can't stress this enough The PETG allows minor flexing and you should be able to get a very snug tight rigid fit of your post without "cranking down the post". The washer then provides very little contact with the playfield and doesn't dig in like the smaller metal washers do. See the pic below, the black circle around the post shows you the point of direct contact the washer makes with the playfield.
[quoted image]
f. Test fit your ball clearances. Most posts including the ones unprotected by a bumper will allow full clearance of the ball to the playfield without interference. But you always want to check to make sure.
[quoted image]
g. Reassemble. Work slowly and backwards using the parts in reverse order that you have lined up, following your documentation and pics if necessary. Use the right tool for the right job. Don't force something if it's not correct. Use proper hex drivers and screw drivers for specific areas. The last thing you want is a stripped thread, or screw or nut that no longer functions or makes the issue worse. Worse yet, damaging areas or the playfield or assemblies trying to force something.
h. Protect while working. Use thick microfiber towels to protect the playfield from falling parts, and also to brace parts away from each other. Disassembling a ramp for example or partially removing the upper playfield. The towel can cushion and support the piece temporarily without scuffing or damaging other parts of the game.
Use a thick card (business card) or at least a sheet of paper under metal ramp flaps to protect playfield if you are moving the ramp without disassembling from playfield entirely. This will prevent wear and scratching while working
i. Inspect your work after every 10 plays. Keep an eye on areas you fixed and always look out for new areas and apply the fixes accordingly and soon.
j. You will eventually arrive at a custom stopping point for your machine that will result in no further damage or pooling and you can finally start to enjoy the machine again. Take your time and have "Patience" - yes pun intended.
Please let me know if this helped you and if there is anything you'd like me to add or change.
At the end of the day, remember, it's about playing the game, not inspecting every square inch with a microscope. Hopefully these fixes will allow your anger to fade over time and bring back the true enjoyment this game can give. This is my view from a player's perspective. Washer's and all!
Thanks a bunch and happy flipping!
[quoted image]

Well done man super detail!

#11310 48 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

[quoted image]Hey all, been getting a lot of PM requests on PETG washers...the how many, where, why etc questions.
To make it easier on me, thought I'd type up a little memo summary for reference. I'll add more to this if new updates happen or change.
Issue: Playfield pooling, chipping, art tearing
Cause: Clearcoat, loose posts, overtorqued posts, bent washers, metal washers, no washers, too small washers
Fix: Debateable but for me, the best solution is PETG. The runner up is Cliffy carbon. The only reason the Cliffy is ranked 2nd is that it is adhesive (most likely permanent, possibly tearing up art if removed, covers up existing surrounding art near damage, requires a metal washer on top of it for true protection. Whereas the clear PETG provides enough rigidness to stand alone, can see underlying art clearly, can be easily removed, can be easily cut and fabricated to fit.
Results: My results and pics have all held up 1000+ plays post fixing. I am not guaranteeing this for everyone as all the playfields seem to vary, but from others feedback, this seems to be the best method currently. I am providing this for those who wish to continue to play their game while preserving what is there without further damage and repairing what may already be. This isn't to debate pooling or why or why not we should have to fix our $$$ machines.
Parts Needed:
20 - 25 clear 3/4 inch PETG washers. They can be obtained from many sources but my goto has been Pinball Life https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html
You can also find colored ones from Titan pinball https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=134&search=washerand use them in special areas...The upper playfield for example, I used a blue 3/4 inch for example.. See pic below
[quoted image]
5 clear 7/8 inch PETG washers. Used sparingly on some areas to cover more art area or to fit flush against other machine washers, rails or posts to give extra rigidity.
Set of various metal washers. Should be standard in any pinball repair arsenal but here's a link if you don't have any:
amazon.com link »
[quoted image]
Tools Needed:
Long skinny hex drivers (sold at most big box hardware stores in kits)
Long skinny phillips head driver to reach areas under ramps
Small wrenches to get into tight areas
Telescoping magnet tool for parts retrieval https://www.pinballlife.com/telescoping-magnet-tool.html
Vinyl Iron kit amazon.com link »
The Process and fix:
(***Disclaimer - any modifications done are solely at the discretion of the owner and I do not take responsibility for over ironing, or further damage to your playfield employing the methods below)
1. Unfortunately, there isn't a hard fast rule for preventing or stopping the pooling and chipping if left untouched. I'm just relaying my best possible solution fix that has held up for over 1000+ plays now after my applied fixes and still going strong with no spreading wear or new areas of pooling around new washers.
2. You can take a complete "protect it all" method straight out of the box or just protect the easier to tackle posts and employ a monitor fix methodology. I started seeing pooling at around 25 plays and started employing my techniques until around 250 plays. From that point I had no further damage and employed 29 new washers (and or larger metal replacements). Yes, you read that correctly 29. But, most are hidden from view and the clear PETG is the other advantage. You can cover large areas and multiple washers and it doesn't fill your playfield with unsightly washers. Here is a sample (some - not all of some of the problem areas I have had). https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4pdonoGuVuEIqsBgtvZatV44oSnM2201uhGO_RYpcWJqY59vya8bPQ5-JNP0WDw?key=TkVjVngyMWhISTJZN05Mb1huLUloNjZiZ0tzV2dR
3. Technique:
a. Examine. What do you need to fix? Take a close look and document it all. Tackle the posts you can get to, save other areas for small projects. For example, you can combine removing the upper playfield to
Install cliffy scoop protectors
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/150#post-6197148 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/171#post-6243689, and while you're at it, install all the PETG you can.
b. Document and record. Take pictures. Label if necessary. When disassembling ramp areas or a new part, I lay the parts out in a line as I remove them so that I can work backwards and forwards for various stages of assembly and clearly see what screws and washers go where and when. It's a simple technique but very helpful once you have a bunch of various screws and washers of different shapes and sizes.
c. Trial fit. Lay out your fixes first. Determine what you need. A couple clear washers? A clear and a metal? A larger metal? What fits what and where? I try to always butt up a washer against another surface if I can to give the washer support. See the pic below as an example. Notice the post on the left ...here is where I used a 7/8 washer that sits against the inlane guiderail spacer. More support, less risk of movement and stress.
[quoted image]
d. Apply Iron fix technique. Yelobird and Buffalo pinball provided great step by steps and videos for this process.
Yelobird method
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-playfield-post-repair-and-chip-proofing-how-to-all-brands
Buffalo Pinball video

I allow my areas to cool to the touch after about 30 minutes and then apply the washers. I don't wait extended periods of time...maybe an hour max before reapplying the washers and this hasn't resulted in any mushy clear or repooling.
Some areas, I could not fit a 3/4 inch PETG so I upgraded those areas to a larger metal washer or cut a sliver off the PETG (they cut very well with scissors and do not fracture or crack..I also used a file on some to notch an area, the inlane washer near the AMP GNR lanes for example.
I also fabricated some of the clear PETG (cut slits, or cut portions of) to fit next to other metal posts or rails.
[quoted image]
e. Hand assemble posts back in position. I use hand tools and the 2 finger and a thumb tightening rule, that way it's snug yet not cranked down. Remember, the longer the tool, the more torque applied with the same force. Do not over tighten!!!! Can't stress this enough The PETG allows minor flexing and you should be able to get a very snug tight rigid fit of your post without "cranking down the post". The washer then provides very little contact with the playfield and doesn't dig in like the smaller metal washers do. See the pic below, the black circle around the post shows you the point of direct contact the washer makes with the playfield.
[quoted image]
f. Test fit your ball clearances. Most posts including the ones unprotected by a bumper will allow full clearance of the ball to the playfield without interference. But you always want to check to make sure.
[quoted image]
g. Reassemble. Work slowly and backwards using the parts in reverse order that you have lined up, following your documentation and pics if necessary. Use the right tool for the right job. Don't force something if it's not correct. Use proper hex drivers and screw drivers for specific areas. The last thing you want is a stripped thread, or screw or nut that no longer functions or makes the issue worse. Worse yet, damaging areas or the playfield or assemblies trying to force something.
h. Protect while working. Use thick microfiber towels to protect the playfield from falling parts, and also to brace parts away from each other. Disassembling a ramp for example or partially removing the upper playfield. The towel can cushion and support the piece temporarily without scuffing or damaging other parts of the game.
Use a thick card (business card) or at least a sheet of paper under metal ramp flaps to protect playfield if you are moving the ramp without disassembling from playfield entirely. This will prevent wear and scratching while working
i. Inspect your work after every 10 plays. Keep an eye on areas you fixed and always look out for new areas and apply the fixes accordingly and soon.
j. You will eventually arrive at a custom stopping point for your machine that will result in no further damage or pooling and you can finally start to enjoy the machine again. Take your time and have "Patience" - yes pun intended.
Please let me know if this helped you and if there is anything you'd like me to add or change.
At the end of the day, remember, it's about playing the game, not inspecting every square inch with a microscope. Hopefully these fixes will allow your anger to fade over time and bring back the true enjoyment this game can give. This is my view from a player's perspective. Washer's and all!
Thanks a bunch and happy flipping!
[quoted image]

Wow.. Awesome documentation.
Mods please Key this post.

#11311 48 days ago
Quoted from dug:

Wow.. Awesome documentation.
Mods please Key this post.

Check. It was already done.

#11312 48 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Check. It was already done.

Doh...
Thanks

#11313 48 days ago
Quoted from MightyGrave:

Sounds pretty Need
What kind of Post you used? Can you give us a Link?

I had one post to try from a friend. Which worked perfect so now ordered these, Metal Post Stud 8-32 x 1-3/4". Hope they will fit. The longer the better.

#11314 48 days ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Finally got the call today, 10/9 order direct with JJP, ETA around Friday or Monday for my GNR LE!!!

Curious to see if JJP are changing/fixing anything on the new machines going out to address the post/PF issues

#11315 48 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Curious to see if JJP are changing/fixing anything on the new machines going out to address the post/PF issues

Mine was built last week, and as far as I can see, every problem post has washers, and a washers and lock nut on bottom too. Play field looks great. Still I added clear petg to them just to be safe

#11316 48 days ago

My game has damage The "fix" just pushes the damage out further faster. Wish I would have just taken them off. I have pooling and some art splitting a little on my backstage. I would fix it before you play it. I have cliffy carbon fibers and some clear petg from pinballlife on order and plan to do what I can and have Sugartown pinball tech wizard out to do the rest. Stopped playing my game. Contacted support, they offered to send.... more washers. Also irritated that there was zero apology, empathy, even a feeling of them giving a shit.

Where is it that people are tracking the game numbers and damage? I want to add mine to it.

#11317 48 days ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

My game has damage The "fix" just pushes the damage out further faster. Wish I would have just taken them off. I have pooling and some art splitting a little on my backstage. I would fix it before you play it. I have cliffy carbon fibers and some clear petg from pinballlife on order and plan to do what I can and have Sugartown pinball tech wizard out to do the rest. Stopped playing my game. Contacted support, they offered to send.... more washers. Also irritated that there was zero apology, empathy, even a feeling of them giving a shit.
Where is it that people are tracking the game numbers and damage? I want to add mine to it.

I think this is how most of us feel. No apology, no im sorry, no let me get you a playfield, nothing!!! Just very BAD customer service. Its a damn shame!!

#11318 48 days ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

My game has damage The "fix" just pushes the damage out further faster. Wish I would have just taken them off. I have pooling and some art splitting a little on my backstage. I would fix it before you play it. I have cliffy carbon fibers and some clear petg from pinballlife on order and plan to do what I can and have Sugartown pinball tech wizard out to do the rest. Stopped playing my game. Contacted support, they offered to send.... more washers. Also irritated that there was zero apology, empathy, even a feeling of them giving a shit.
Where is it that people are tracking the game numbers and damage? I want to add mine to it.

What is your Playfield build date?

#11319 48 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

What is your Playfield build date?

Game was built in April. Looked under the playfield and I don't see a date on the playfield itself. Where do I find it?

#11320 48 days ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

Game was built in April. Looked under the playfield and I don't see a date on the playfield itself. Where do I find it?

You need to look at the very back of the playfield. Not under it but the back of it where the wood is showing. It will have it stamped on it..Pull your playfield out and rest it on the lock down bar, than go to the back w/ a flashlight and look at the end of the playfield.

#11321 48 days ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Finally got the call today, 10/9 order direct with JJP, ETA around Friday or Monday for my GNR LE!!!

Very exciting! I haven't got the call yet but I am a mid Oct order through FlipNOut

#11322 48 days ago
Quoted from pinballj:

Very exciting! I haven't got the call yet but I am a mid Oct order through FlipNOut

You're in very good hands vendor.

Don't let the playfield talk scare you it's a intense pinball machine.

It'll become your #1 favorite

#11323 48 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

You're in very good hands vendor.
Don't let the playfield talk scare you it's a intense pinball machine.
It'll become your #1 favorite

Yup no worries on my side at all. Really looking forward to getting the game and putting a lot of plays on it

#11324 48 days ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Finally got the call today, 10/9 order direct with JJP, ETA around Friday or Monday for my GNR LE!!!

Awesome .. we're truckin now...8 months since launch and they've finally made it through day 4 direct orders !

#11325 48 days ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Did almost similar, but also took a longer post. So it extend more under the playfield. Even going to add another nut on there. Now it can't move anymore. Ordered longer posts for the rest too.

Crazy but this is exactly how my game is from the factory. Longer post thru the t-nut with a nylon nut on the bottom side. May build.

#11326 47 days ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

Crazy but this is exactly how my game is from the factory. Longer post thru the t-nut with a nylon nut on the bottom side. May build.

So they are learning. Would be nice if they communicated anything.

#11327 47 days ago
Quoted from PeterG:

So they are learning.

I'm open to the possibility that they grabbed the wrong part... But this opens up a whole another can of worms in terms of loose processes, no controls preventing this to even happen, plus the QA not catching it... But I hope you're right.
I would need to hear from other may build owners to accept it was a conscious change more than an anomaly. I still like the ideas using the bushing/sleeve around the post in the over sized hole

#11328 47 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

I'm open to the possibility that they grabbed the wrong part... But this opens up a whole another can of worms in terms of loose processes, no controls preventing this to even happen, plus the QA not catching it... But I hope you're right.
I would need to hear from other may build owners to accept it was a conscious change more than an anomaly. I still like the ideas using the bushing/sleeve around the post in the over sized hole

I’m a May build as well. I’ll confirm the change. This is the post that came up in the video. The one to the left of the backstage entrance. The one on the upper playfield is like this too.

96ADA9F6-5CE2-4471-A6D5-D03E11A5EBF1 (resized).jpeg
-2
#11329 47 days ago

This pretty much confirms it - JJP is just silently implementing mitigation measures to minimize the damage to the crap Mirco fields. Whether or not they're using the info they read here on Pinside (oh, you KNOW they're reading Pinside all the time, right?) or they are figuring this stuff out on their own, I guess we'll never know. Because they haven't said a peep about anything.

But know this: any of you who are sharing your fixes for things and those fixes get used on the production line, you are essentially "working" for JJP without getting paid. They are basically using Pinside as a crowd-sourced supply of brains and info on the cheap.

That's nice.

#11330 47 days ago

My LE arrived today bright and early from Coin Taker. Launch day order. If I had to nit pick there is a small chip in shooter lane but Cliffy’s shooter lane protector will cover it up. Played fine out of the box and later today or this weekend I’ll install the Cliffy kit. Still waiting on his washers. I don’t plan to play it much until then. No pooling and hopefully it will stay that way when I get the washers and apply some other creative fixes so well documented on this page. June build. Time for a deep dive on the rules.

0D6D5191-D9DD-4624-A186-549796C54166 (resized).jpeg
#11331 47 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

any of you who are sharing your fixes for things and those fixes get used on the production line, you are essentially "working" for JJP without getting paid. They are basically using Pinside as a crowd-sourced supply of brains and info on the cheap.
That's nice.

And if it helps others or the product who gives a Yank! Is there Anything you won't complain about lol.

12
#11332 47 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

This pretty much confirms it - JJP is just silently implementing mitigation measures to minimize the damage to the crap Mirco fields. Whether or not they're using the info they read here on Pinside (oh, you KNOW they're reading Pinside all the time, right?) or they are figuring this stuff out on their own, I guess we'll never know. Because they haven't said a peep about anything.
But know this: any of you who are sharing your fixes for things and those fixes get used on the production line, you are essentially "working" for JJP without getting paid. They are basically using Pinside as a crowd-sourced supply of brains and info on the cheap.
That's nice.

Honestly, what do you want JJP to do or say? It seems like they are working their hardest to get this resolved. Did stern put out a release or any notice about their playfields chipping, ghosting, bow’d, etc…? The only company that I know that came out publicly about it was Spooky.

If JJP did nothing, I’d be pissed. But they are obviously not based on new games. I got a package from JJP the other day (requested by me to my distributor), I haven’t opened it yet - weekend project. But I suspect it’s their washer kit + my replacement spotlight. I think the service guys at JJP, Barry and Steve, have been doing excellent work through all these hiccups and road bumps.

I was so angry when my post chipped, mainly cause I was sucked in by all the non owner haters with pitch forks around here. But know what happened a couple weeks of not playing GNR and when the smoke settled in my mind? I took 10 minutes out of my day to repair the post, played it, and realized I own one of the best games ever made. Now get on that code Keefer!

#11333 47 days ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Honestly, what do you want JJP to do or say? It seems like they are working their hardest to get this resolved. Did stern put out a release or any notice about their playfields chipping, ghosting, bow’d, etc…? The only company that I know that came out publicly about it was Spooky.
If JJP did nothing, I’d be pissed. But they are obviously not based on new games. I got a package from JJP the other day (requested by me to my distributor), I haven’t opened it yet - weekend project. But I suspect it’s their washer kit + my replacement spotlight. I think the service guys at JJP, Barry and Steve, have been doing excellent work through all these hiccups and road bumps.
I was so angry when my post chipped, mainly cause I was sucked in by all the non owner haters with pitch forks around here. But know what happened a couple weeks of not playing GNR and when the smoke settled in my mind? I took 10 minutes out of my day to repair the post, played it, and realized I own one of the best games ever made. Now get on that code Keefer!

AF62D5E2-FFDC-47C9-B010-349A5D12925C (resized).jpeg
#11334 47 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

This pretty much confirms it - JJP is just silently implementing mitigation measures to minimize the damage to the crap Mirco fields. Whether or not they're using the info they read here on Pinside (oh, you KNOW they're reading Pinside all the time, right?) or they are figuring this stuff out on their own, I guess we'll never know. Because they haven't said a peep about anything.
But know this: any of you who are sharing your fixes for things and those fixes get used on the production line, you are essentially "working" for JJP without getting paid. They are basically using Pinside as a crowd-sourced supply of brains and info on the cheap.
That's nice.

Are you in on GNR or are you just trolling like Jimwe5t? There are other threads to bitch about JJP in.

#11335 47 days ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Honestly, what do you want JJP to do or say? It seems like they are working their hardest to get this resolved.

Really? Are they 'working their hardest to get this resolved'. From what I hear they had this problem in the past. That does not lead me to believe your statement.

Do you have a playfield issue and did they solve it? I have a unit that they claimed had a fix, that fix made the pooling further out from the post. Now the new fix it plastic washers under the first fix.

What do I expect them to do? I expect them to ship me a new playfield. A pinball machines playfield is the most important part of the game. If you bought a car and the hoods paint started chipping off you would not let them mail you a sticker to cover it, would you? That is exactly what they are doing here.

#11336 47 days ago

Is that kid looking at the sky and laughing sinisterly after drinking a cup of sacrificial animal's blood?

#11337 47 days ago

Here i was thinking he was gulping cool-aid like it was honey.

#11338 47 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

This pretty much confirms it - JJP is just silently implementing mitigation measures to minimize the damage to the crap Mirco fields. Whether or not they're using the info they read here on Pinside (oh, you KNOW they're reading Pinside all the time, right?) or they are figuring this stuff out on their own, I guess we'll never know. Because they haven't said a peep about anything.
But know this: any of you who are sharing your fixes for things and those fixes get used on the production line, you are essentially "working" for JJP without getting paid. They are basically using Pinside as a crowd-sourced supply of brains and info on the cheap.
That's nice.

A club thread is for owners and fans of the game. There are plenty of other threads for you to spew your hatred on.

You are just getting rid of good people from the forum and giving yourself a bad name.

#11339 47 days ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

Really? Are they 'working their hardest to get this resolved'. From what I hear they had this problem in the past. That does not lead me to believe your statement.
Do you have a playfield issue and did they solve it? I have a unit that they claimed had a fix, that fix made the pooling further out from the post. Now the new fix it plastic washers under the first fix.
What do I expect them to do? I expect them to ship me a new playfield.
Regardless of their absolutely ridiculous warranty that doesn't warranty anything there is a Consumer Rights Act. It says that any products you buy must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose as described. They are in breach of this Act. A pinball machines playfield is the most important part of the game. If you bought a car and the hoods paint started chipping off you would not let them mail you a sticker to cover it, would you? That is exactly what they are doing here.
They are also not at all friendly or apologetic. I wrote what I felt was a pretty damn friendly email, got nothing of that in return.

Have you ever studied GMCand Chevy peelers?

#11340 47 days ago

Yes I had a chevy truck peeled paint and the paid dealer to repaint it!!!!!!

#11341 47 days ago
Quoted from simpswho:

Yes I had a chevy truck peeled paint and the paid dealer to repaint it!!!!!!

No offense meant but this post took me five times reading it to figure out what you were trying to say because both subjects and verbs appear to be flipped/backwards in this compound sentence.

I think this is what you meant

Yes I had a chevy truck paint peeled and the dealer paid to repaint it!!!!!!

#11342 47 days ago

Here's a comment actually about the game lol!!
Got to "Do you want to play a game" for the first time today. Won't spoil anything that happens but about had a heart attack when it first started. This game has so many fun things to discover and is an absolute blast to play.

#11343 47 days ago
Quoted from jclausing:

Here's a comment actually about the game lol!!
Got to "Do you want to play a game" for the first time today. Won't spoil anything that happens but about had a heart attack when it first started. This game has so many fun things to discover and is an absolute blast to play.

Wasn't till 5 secs before i dropped the ball i figured out what i was suppossed to be doing. Fun mode though.

#11344 47 days ago

Hey Zaphx is no longer here. Someone’s gotta take the kool-aid and spike it some

#11345 47 days ago

For those looking for side blades for their SE or LE, you can order the CE version directly from JJP or through your distributor. I saw some on a friend's CE and had to have a set. They look amazing! My set has arrived in Canada so will post some pictures when I pick them up. I have not seen them advertised on the JJP website. Cost is about $30US per side.

#11346 47 days ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Would this be the correct longer post you guys are ordering? How many would a guy need?
https://www.pinballlife.com/1-78-tall-metal-post-with-10-32-threaded-base-15430.html
[quoted image]

has anyone found out how many of these are neededd and if its worth the effort

#11347 47 days ago
Quoted from pinballjah:

For those looking for side blades for their SE or LE, you can order the CE version directly from JJP or through your distributor. I saw some on a friend's CE and had to have a set. They look amazing! My set has arrived in Canada so will post some pictures when I pick them up. I have not seen them advertised on the JJP website. Cost is about $30US per side.

What do the ce blades look like? Can't find an image.

#11348 47 days ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Hey Zaphx is no longer here. Someone’s gotta take the kool-aid and spike it some

Not something to be proud off.

#11349 47 days ago

I joined the club yesterday with the GnR LE.
Everything seems great, except for one thing.
I need your help.
I have 3 different Bluetooth devices (JBL Partybox 310, JBL Charge 3, Jabra Headphones) connected via Bluetooth.
Technically everything could be connected.
However, no sound comes out of any BT device. When I turn up the Bluetooth volume I hear from the backbox speakers quietly the sound.
Defect or just a cable wrong?
Thanks

#11350 47 days ago

On location playing and they installed the Golgotha side blades. These are what I have waiting and Hadn't seen them installed... Pretty cool!
https://www.tiltgraphicsinc.com/product-page/guns-n-roses-inspired-jjp-golgotha-gameblades

20210617_184908 (resized).jpg20210617_185237 (resized).jpg

20210617_210110 (resized).jpg

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