Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (SE)
Jersey Jack, 2020Quoted from PinWoofer:I talked with wcbrandes and we've got a plan to get him going. Thanks for chiming in guys!
Yup turned out I had the first edition of the new tweeters so I just filed the housing down about 3 to 4 mm and bang the glass now has room to get up and in! Thanks for everyone's help and I have to say the sound now is sooooo much better than stock although I too have a 12 inch external sub! The highs needed attention for sure so thankyou Pinwoofer!
Quoted from GnFnR:Hi guys
I’m a total noob when it comes to pinball. I love gnr and have a deposit down on an LE. I’m worried about all the play field stuff I see on here. Is there something I can do to prevent this that is easy. I will be able to fix nothing and will probably have to pay someone to come service The machine. I’m not worried about minor issues that a novice like me won’t notice but I’d like the thing ti work properly and not get ruined. Any help appreciated
Unfortunately there is no easy fix for any potential issues. Mine is a May build and I’ve had it for a couple of weeks. 100 plays in and no playfield issues. I didn’t do any additional preventative work. The waiting part is tough. But it’s worth it. The game really is amazing and really comes alive after you get the hang of it. It’s so much more than just a light show. It’s just a super addicting game.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Thanks for everyone's help and I have to say the sound now is sooooo much better than stock although I too have a 12 inch external sub! The highs needed attention for sure so thankyou Pinwoofer!
My pleasure! Please note that the fit issue was resolved months ago by adding the scallop as punkin indicated. Enjoy!
Quoted from GnFnR:Hi guys
I’m a total noob when it comes to pinball. I love gnr and have a deposit down on an LE. I’m worried about all the play field stuff I see on here. Is there something I can do to prevent this that is easy. I will be able to fix nothing and will probably have to pay someone to come service The machine. I’m not worried about minor issues that a novice like me won’t notice but I’d like the thing ti work properly and not get ruined. Any help appreciated
I have no damage, chipping or pooling after around 200 plays on my May LE. I installed 7/8" mylar and petg fender washers under two of the more problematic posts; the 'Lock' post and the one in the bumpers. My left outlane post and slings came from factory with black nylon washers.
https://themodcouplepinball.com/products/mylar-post-ring-kits?_pos=1&_sid=bcd26957f&_ss=r
Quoted from marksf123:I was thinking about picking up G&R LE. What is the typical wait for the game?
My opinion only ... Everyone has one. 
Direct from JJP, at least 8 or 9 months, from disty depends on who, ask them... From used market, your choice.
Someone just posted they ordered from a small disty on March 31 and got it now... That's a unicorn.
For the players that regularly average games over 10 million….
When in 2ball booster multi balls, are you playing slowly or just go ham? Meaning do you try to catch and cradle the balls and aim for every jackpot?
Obviously the more balls in play the faster you gotta flip.
I feel like I need to focus and play in control more, especially with this game more so than others, as I am aiming and shooting on the fly 90% of the time. Looks like jackpots are very important when it comes to song levels
Quoted from Mattyk:For the players that regularly average games over 10 million….
When in 2ball booster multi balls, are you playing slowly or just go ham? Meaning do you try to catch and cradle the balls and aim for every jackpot?
Obviously the more balls in play the faster you gotta flip.
I feel like I need to focus and play in control more, especially with this game more so than others, as I am aiming and shooting on the fly 90% of the time. Looks like jackpots are very important when it comes to song levels
I just go ham and and I also try and bring in all 4 booster mb at the same time if I can.
Can anyone elaborate on this a bit please .What does it mean by “all 3 in lanes can be cycled to move GnR letters “.I’m struggling with patch collecting I’ve noticed sometime I nudge them ball to the GNR lane and it doesn’t register a letter also I’ve let balls drop from UPF and not advanced a letter .Trying to understand this .I’m finally playing consistently better I’m trying to learn a little more every play the game is slowing down finally
C1A72AF7-FDC8-4F4D-B50F-C98998D3A559 (resized).pngQuoted from extraballingtmc:I just go ham and and I also try and bring in all 4 booster mb at the same time if I can.
watching Karl’s streams it looks like he sets up the boosters all before bringing MB in is this a fair assessment ?
Quoted from Kkoss24:Can anyone elaborate on this a bit please .What does it mean by “all 3 in lanes can be cycled to move GnR letters “.I’m struggling with patch collecting I’ve noticed sometime I nudge them ball to the GNR lane and it doesn’t register a letter also I’ve let balls drop from UPF and not advanced a letter .Trying to understand this .I’m finally playing consistently better I’m trying to learn a little more every play the game is slowing down finally
[quoted image]
Not sure why your letters aren't registering. You should be spotted a letter from the UPF when not in song mode or the G N R lane. Might have a finicky switch or opto? Just guessing. You should be able to cycle the letters through all 3 lanes. For example you get an A in the Amp lane..you can hit the right flipper and move it to the G N R lane so now you would have a lit G...you could also switch it back to the A M P lane and have your A back. It works the same through all 3 lanes as well as the top AXL lanes.
Quoted from fooflighter:Not sure why your letters aren't registering. You should be spotted a letter from the UPF when not in song mode or the G N R lane. Might have a finicky switch or opto? Just guessing. You should be able to cycle the letters through all 3 lanes. For example you get an A in the Amp lane..you can hit the right flipper and move it to the G N R lane so now you would have a lit G...you could also switch it back to the A M P lane and have your A back. It works the same through all 3 lanes as well as the top AXL lanes.
Thank you .Is that timed after the switch is rolled over ? Like do you just have a short time to switch it over before it sticks ?
I’ve never noticed this .The pin has been very fast thinking for me lmao .So much going on it’s awsome .
These are the only 3 posts that I haven’t put a petg washer under yet. Can anybody confirm if any of these 3 are problematic? Posts are under right ramp, upper part of coma outlane, and behind the left most pop bumper.
1A715437-CB17-413F-A1C3-958989CCEFDC (resized).jpegFBBA3140-8484-4D2D-877C-BD3F29227EC2 (resized).jpegFECB94BB-5043-4DEB-898F-D4DB2FAC1E70 (resized).jpegQuoted from konghusker:These are the only 3 posts that I haven’t put a petg washer under yet. Can anybody confirm if any of these 3 are problematic? Posts are under right ramp, upper part of coma outlane, and behind the left most pop bumper.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Yes, yes, and yes...
On your 3rd pic I also put a PETG under the rail mount (both rail mounts to make the rail even height) and both posts..
All the pics below I just took.. and these are after a 1000 plays after the fixes ...They all had pooling and they were all ironed out... With no further damage
20210615_214423~2.jpg20210615_214654~2.jpg20210615_214609.jpg20210615_214633.jpg
20210615_215648 (resized).jpg
Anyone have any idea why all of the LEDs on my GNR SE would just stop working? The only ones still working are on the guitar over the left ramp, which I noticed do not go through the same board as the rest of the LEDs. Does this mean I need an entirely new board, the one that all of the rj45 connectors are plugged into? The board is getting power as I can see a little green light by the power cord.
Other than the LEDs, the only problem I can see on the testing menus is the sensors also appear to be non-functioning.
20210615_193857 (resized).jpg20210615_194249 (resized).jpgQuoted from Kkoss24:Thank you .Is that timed after the switch is rolled over ? Like do you just have a short time to switch it over before it sticks ?
It's just an opto from the UPF and a rollover for the lanes. When you press the flipper, it simply shifts the letters left and right...they stay where you want them until the lane is completed then they reset.
Every post has the possibility of being problematic.
Quoted from konghusker:Can anybody confirm if any of these 3 are problematic?
Quoted from Kkoss24:I’ve never noticed this .The pin has been very fast thinking for me lmao .So much going on it’s awsome .
Next time you’re in between balls, check to see if any of the inlanes have an insert lit. If so, press one of the flipper buttons and watch how they cycle lane to lane.
If you have 2 inserts on JAM inlane, for example, and you press left flipper, those 2 inserts will cycle to the GNR inlane. Press again and they’ll move to the JAM inlane.
Quoted from fooflighter:Yes, yes, and yes...
On your 3rd pic I also put a PETG under the rail mount (both rail mounts to make the rail even height) and both posts..
All the pics below I just took.. and these are after a 1000 plays after the fixes ...They all had pooling and they were all ironed out... With no further damage
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]
Looks like I got more work to do then. Thanks for the info.
Quoted from konghusker:Looks like I got more work to do then. Thanks for the info.
No problem...glad to help
Quoted from konghusker:Can the song patience be permanently opened up or does it have to be opened with every new game?
Only way to open Patience is to acquire the GNR Lies patch. So it would have to be done each game that you wanted to play the song.
Quoted from fooflighter:Also if people think my PETG use is excessive ...well it may be... but here's what I see when I play the game
[quoted image]
Always loved that pic! Where did you get your flipper tops?
Quoted from KCPinhead:Anyone have any idea why all of the LEDs on my GNR SE would just stop working? The only ones still working are on the guitar over the left ramp, which I noticed do not go through the same board as the rest of the LEDs. Does this mean I need an entirely new board, the one that all of the rj45 connectors are plugged into? The board is getting power as I can see a little green light by the power cord.
Other than the LEDs, the only problem I can see on the testing menus is the sensors also appear to be non-functioning.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Looking at the manual, looks like fuse Fx00 handles all the feature and GI RGB lights. I'd check that. Sounds like you may have blown it.
Quoted from jalpert:Every post has the possibility of being problematic.
Pinside’s unofficial motto!
Quoted from Vespula:Always loved that pic! Where did you get your flipper tops?
https://www.tiltgraphicsinc.com/guns-n-roses-jjp
They have red and white or red and black in addition to art blades
Quoted from PinMonk:Looking at the manual, looks like fuse Fx00 handles all the feature and GI RGB lights. I'd check that. Sounds like you may have blown it.
If the sensors are also not working (as your picture showed), definitely something wrong with that board or associated stuff. Did the USB cable fall out there or up in the head? Does the LED on the board blink? Fast or slow? When you turn the game on, do all the LEDs come on in their test mode?
fooflighter - could you tell me how many posts are there?
Game has yet to arrive.
The PETG washers.. are they Pinballlife.. and what size do I need to order.
Thanks
Quoted from rockrand:This is what is did better then nothing,nylon sleeve reduced to a snug fit
[quoted image]
Another quick and easy way could be to use some plumbers silicone tape , or electrical or sticky tape , to pad it out ?
Your way looks much more professional , I'm just thinking if you have nothing else .
IMG20210616223349 (resized).jpgHow many posts you want to protect is up to you. I haven't seen evidence that every posts chips. What tends to happen on JJP machines is there is a handful of frequently impacted posts that might bubble or chip, the rest are fine. But if you have the time and inclination to take action for each post in the game, I say go for it.
The only downside really is doing more harm than good if you aren't careful taking things apart/putting back together. I know on pirates there were examples of bubbling posts that had not chipped until the washer was removed, and the paint went with it. So if you do it, take your time.
Quoted from rockrand:This is what is did better then nothing,nylon sleeve reduced to a snug fit
[quoted image]
Did almost similar, but also took a longer post. So it extend more under the playfield. Even going to add another nut on there. Now it can't move anymore. Ordered longer posts for the rest too.
20210616_000454 (resized).jpgQuoted from PeterG:Did almost similar, but also took a longer post. So it extend more under the playfield. Even going to add another nut on there. Now it can't move anymore. Ordered longer posts for the rest too.
[quoted image]
Now this I highly recommend. If your problematic posts don't extend through the bottom, and don't have lock nut, would fix that asap. Newer builds come with longer posts and lock nuts from the factory.
Quoted from jarozi:I had that same hang-up, I just bumped it over a bit to avoid the curve and only cover the flat area, here's a pic.[quoted image]
Thanks!!
Quoted from rockrand:This is what is did better then nothing,nylon sleeve reduced to a snug fit
[quoted image]
Curious...Do you have the measurements for the outer and inner diameters?
Quoted from Pinhead1982:fooflighter - could you tell me how many posts are there?
Game has yet to arrive.
The PETG washers.. are they Pinballlife.. and what size do I need to order.
Thanks
Quoted from jarozi:How many posts you want to protect is up to you. I haven't seen evidence that every posts chips. What tends to happen on JJP machines is there is a handful of frequently impacted posts that might bubble or chip, the rest are fine. But if you have the time and inclination to take action for each post in the game, I say go for it.
The only downside really is doing more harm than good if you aren't careful taking things apart/putting back together. I know on pirates there were examples of bubbling posts that had not chipped until the washer was removed, and the paint went with it. So if you do it, take your time.
What Jarozi said...there is no hard fast rule.
To be safe get 25 3/4 inch and 5 7/8...should be plenty.
I first replaced all that I could easily reach...then moved on to some that required disassmbly or fabrication of the washer. Then finally used large metal #8 or #10 where I couldn't fit a PETG but none existed before. How and where you put them is up to you and will vary from machne to machine. I started the process at 50 and as I saw new pooling, would fix on the fly to my current state.
All in all, I would say I replaced about 25 washers with PETG and about 5 - 7 metal...not one post that I fixed ever got worse, and no new pooling has been encountered
Quoted from Blackjacker:The number of the neighbor of the beast arrived yesterday:
[quoted image]
Congrats! I'm sure the plate# before yours was pulled from the box a long time ago . Maybe we will get to know who the owner is someday...
Order date? Disty/JJP?
Glad to see another arrival!! Definitely a slow trickle... Does anyone know what their output production per day or week is?
Quoted from rockrand:This is what is did better then nothing,nylon sleeve reduced to a snug fit
[quoted image]
Where did you find this nylon sleeve?
Would this be the correct longer post you guys are ordering? How many would a guy need?
https://www.pinballlife.com/1-78-tall-metal-post-with-10-32-threaded-base-15430.html
Capture (resized).PNG
Quoted from Blackjacker:The number of the neighbor of the beast arrived yesterday:
More importantly than game #... what is the build date?
Quoted from Blackjacker:The number of the neighbor of the beast arrived yesterday:
[quoted image]
Technically the neighbor would be 668, more across the street from the beast
petg.pngHey all, been getting a lot of PM requests on PETG washers...the how many, where, why etc questions.
To make it easier on me, thought I'd type up a little memo summary for reference. I'll add more to this if new updates happen or change.
Issue: Playfield pooling, chipping, art tearing
Cause: Clearcoat, loose posts, overtorqued posts, bent washers, metal washers, no washers, too small washers
Fix: Debateable but for me, the best solution is PETG. The runner up is Cliffy carbon. The only reason the Cliffy is ranked 2nd is that it is adhesive (most likely permanent, possibly tearing up art if removed, covers up existing surrounding art near damage, requires a metal washer on top of it for true protection. Whereas the clear PETG provides enough rigidness to stand alone, can see underlying art clearly, can be easily removed, can be easily cut and fabricated to fit.
Results: My results and pics have all held up 1000+ plays post fixing. I am not guaranteeing this for everyone as all the playfields seem to vary, but from others feedback, this seems to be the best method currently. I am providing this for those who wish to continue to play their game while preserving what is there without further damage and repairing what may already be. This isn't to debate pooling or why or why not we should have to fix our $$$ machines.
Parts Needed:
20 - 25 clear 3/4 inch PETG washers. They can be obtained from many sources but my goto has been Pinball Life https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html
You can also find colored ones from Titan pinball https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=134&search=washerand use them in special areas...The upper playfield for example, I used a blue 3/4 inch for example.. See pic below
5 clear 7/8 inch PETG washers. Used sparingly on some areas to cover more art area or to fit flush against other machine washers, rails or posts to give extra rigidity.
Set of various metal washers. Should be standard in any pinball repair arsenal but here's a link if you don't have any:
Tools Needed:
Long skinny hex drivers (sold at most big box hardware stores in kits)
Long skinny phillips head driver to reach areas under ramps
Small wrenches to get into tight areas
Telescoping magnet tool for parts retrieval https://www.pinballlife.com/telescoping-magnet-tool.html
Vinyl Iron kit https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007TQWK6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
The Process and fix:
(***Disclaimer - any modifications done are solely at the discretion of the owner and I do not take responsibility for over ironing, or further damage to your playfield employing the methods below)
1. Unfortunately, there isn't a hard fast rule for preventing or stopping the pooling and chipping if left untouched. I'm just relaying my best possible solution fix that has held up for over 1000+ plays now after my applied fixes and still going strong with no spreading wear or new areas of pooling around new washers.
2. You can take a complete "protect it all" method straight out of the box or just protect the easier to tackle posts and employ a monitor fix methodology. I started seeing pooling at around 25 plays and started employing my techniques until around 250 plays. From that point I had no further damage and employed 29 new washers (and or larger metal replacements). Yes, you read that correctly 29. But, most are hidden from view and the clear PETG is the other advantage. You can cover large areas and multiple washers and it doesn't fill your playfield with unsightly washers. Here is a sample (some - not all of some of the problem areas I have had). https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP4pdonoGuVuEIqsBgtvZatV44oSnM2201uhGO_RYpcWJqY59vya8bPQ5-JNP0WDw?key=TkVjVngyMWhISTJZN05Mb1huLUloNjZiZ0tzV2dR
3. Technique:
a. Examine. What do you need to fix? Take a close look and document it all. Tackle the posts you can get to, save other areas for small projects. For example, you can combine removing the upper playfield to
Install cliffy scoop protectors
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/150#post-6197148 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/171#post-6243689, and while you're at it, install all the PETG you can.
b. Document and record. Take pictures. Label if necessary. When disassembling ramp areas or a new part, I lay the parts out in a line as I remove them so that I can work backwards and forwards for various stages of assembly and clearly see what screws and washers go where and when. It's a simple technique but very helpful once you have a bunch of various screws and washers of different shapes and sizes.
c. Trial fit. Lay out your fixes first. Determine what you need. A couple clear washers? A clear and a metal? A larger metal? What fits what and where? I try to always butt up a washer against another surface if I can to give the washer support. See the pic below as an example. Notice the post on the left ...here is where I used a 7/8 washer that sits against the inlane guiderail spacer. More support, less risk of movement and stress.
d. Apply Iron fix technique. Yelobird and Buffalo pinball provided great step by steps and videos for this process.
Yelobird method
Buffalo Pinball video
I allow my areas to cool to the touch after about 30 minutes and then apply the washers. I don't wait extended periods of time...maybe an hour max before reapplying the washers and this hasn't resulted in any mushy clear or repooling.
Some areas, I could not fit a 3/4 inch PETG so I upgraded those areas to a larger metal washer or cut a sliver off the PETG (they cut very well with scissors and do not fracture or crack..I also used a file on some to notch an area, the inlane washer near the AMP GNR lanes for example.
I also fabricated some of the clear PETG (cut slits, or cut portions of) to fit next to other metal posts or rails.
e. Hand assemble posts back in position. I use hand tools and the 2 finger and a thumb tightening rule, that way it's snug yet not cranked down. Remember, the longer the tool, the more torque applied with the same force. Do not over tighten!!!! Can't stress this enough The PETG allows minor flexing and you should be able to get a very snug tight rigid fit of your post without "cranking down the post". The washer then provides very little contact with the playfield and doesn't dig in like the smaller metal washers do. See the pic below, the black circle around the post shows you the point of direct contact the washer makes with the playfield.
f. Test fit your ball clearances. Most posts including the ones unprotected by a bumper will allow full clearance of the ball to the playfield without interference. But you always want to check to make sure.
g. Reassemble. Work slowly and backwards using the parts in reverse order that you have lined up, following your documentation and pics if necessary. Use the right tool for the right job. Don't force something if it's not correct. Use proper hex drivers and screw drivers for specific areas. The last thing you want is a stripped thread, or screw or nut that no longer functions or makes the issue worse. Worse yet, damaging areas or the playfield or assemblies trying to force something.
h. Protect while working. Use thick microfiber towels to protect the playfield from falling parts, and also to brace parts away from each other. Disassembling a ramp for example or partially removing the upper playfield. The towel can cushion and support the piece temporarily without scuffing or damaging other parts of the game.
Use a thick card (business card) or at least a sheet of paper under metal ramp flaps to protect playfield if you are moving the ramp without disassembling from playfield entirely. This will prevent wear and scratching while working
i. Inspect your work after every 10 plays. Keep an eye on areas you fixed and always look out for new areas and apply the fixes accordingly and soon.
j. You will eventually arrive at a custom stopping point for your machine that will result in no further damage or pooling and you can finally start to enjoy the machine again. Take your time and have "Patience" - yes pun intended.
Please let me know if this helped you and if there is anything you'd like me to add or change.
At the end of the day, remember, it's about playing the game, not inspecting every square inch with a microscope. Hopefully these fixes will allow your anger to fade over time and bring back the true enjoyment this game can give. This is my view from a player's perspective. Washer's and all!
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