(Topic ID: 278791)

The Official JJP GnR Owners Thread

By Dallas_Pin

9 months ago


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  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by RPZ
  • Topic is favorited by 364 Pinsiders

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“Which one are you buying”

  • CE 178 votes
    20%
  • LE 466 votes
    51%
  • SE 62 votes
    7%
  • None 200 votes
    22%

(906 votes)

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There are 12948 posts in this topic. You are on page 205 of 259.
#10201 66 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

How in the world is a dual-wound flipper coil overheating like that? Are they not cutting the power circuit voltage when switching to hold voltage?

Even on hold, temps rise, and that diverter can be on hold a LONG time. Stern seems to be machine-gunning their duty cycle with sub-millisecond pulses to achieve their magical almost-no-heat holds. I'm not sure JJP's hardware can go to that resolution, or if they even have that ability on the hold circuit which is separate on a dual wound coil. Spooky's duty cycle on hold is in the millisecond range and may be limited by the P-ROC hardware so they can't emulate Stern's approach (multimorphic care to comment on the lower limit of duty cycle timing pulses with their P-ROC hardware?).

#10202 66 days ago

Have new rules been posted now that we have had several; updates? I'm on V1.22, but the latest rules I found were for V1.08 ...

#10203 66 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Even on hold, temps rise, and that diverter can be on hold a LONG time. Stern seems to be machine-gunning their duty cycle with sub-millisecond pulses to achieve their magical almost-no-heat holds. I'm not sure JJP's hardware can go to that resolution.

No, that's a dual wound coil. No need to duty-cycle; all you do is turn both circuits on, then turn the primary (power) circuit off after 30ms or so, leaving the hold circuit on. No different than holding a flipper up on a sys11 game.

Maybe they figured out after the fact that the hold circuit was insufficient to keep the diverter pulled down? If so that's a hell of a mess, trying to drive a dual wound coil augmented with PWM... man this whole game is a shitshow

#10204 66 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

No, that's a dual wound coil. No need to duty-cycle; all you do is turn both circuits on, then turn the primary (power) circuit off after 30ms or so, leaving the hold circuit on. No different than holding a flipper up on a sys11 game.
Maybe they figured out after the fact that the hold circuit was insufficient to keep the diverter pulled down? If so that's a hell of a mess, trying to drive a dual wound coil augmented with PWM... man this whole game is a shitshow

Bleh, right. Stern is using duty cycle on a single wound coil to main temps when holding on Spike (And doing it VERY WELL). Fixed the original post up a bit.

Dunno if there's the ability to duty cycle on the low power hold circuit of a dual wound coil to manage temps better, or if JJP has tried that yet. I'll put in on my "to do" list to check.

#10205 66 days ago

There's no reason to duty-cycle the hold circuit, the resistance of the coil itself should be enough to keep it from overheating. That's the whole point of the design.

Maybe the game rules have the diverter down so much it actually overheats despite the proven design? Or (more likely) the hold circuit wasn't strong enough to keep the diverter down, so they're also using PWM on the power circuit as well to help?

I've owned two Johnny Mnemonics (which use flipper coils to control diverters exactly like GnR does) and I never had issues with either of them roasting the coils.

#10206 66 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

There's no reason to duty-cycle the hold circuit, the resistance of the coil itself should be enough to keep it from overheating. That's the whole point of the design.
Maybe the game rules have the diverter down so much it actually overheats despite the proven design? Or (more likely) the hold circuit wasn't strong enough to keep the diverter down, so they're also using PWM on the power circuit as well to help?
I've owned two Johnny Mnemonics (which use flipper coils to control diverters exactly like GnR does) and I never had issues with either of them roasting the coils.

Yes, I think that's the main problem. The coil that controls the diverter is just on too much for too long. It should have had a coil that puts it in position and locks it, and a small coil to fire that releases the lock. They didn't do that, so it's on A LOT. Too much, in fact.

Unlike the Stern spike hold with the micro millisecond duty cycle, the Bally/Williams dual wound coil will still heat up with the hold windings, just a lot slower.

13
#10207 66 days ago

Am I the only one who is sick of hearing about hot coils and f$&ked up playfields? Every time I pop in this thread, it just makes me want to drink more...

Pinball used to be fun...

#10208 66 days ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Am I the only one who is sick of hearing about hot coils and f$&ked up playfields? Every time I pop in this thread, it just makes me want to drink more...
Pinball used to be fun...

It's still fun.

And the right hot-ass coil can be a very good time.

#10209 66 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Can't agree more. In most Any trouble shooting exercise the safe bet is to ask "what is the last thing we did". For CPR and Mirco the answer seems to be Digital printing. Fairly common knowledge even to those that just paint a simple fence. The quality of the end product is how you prepare the foundation. The best clear or paint means Nothing with a crap primer or prepared surface.

well put my friend

12
#10210 66 days ago

Oh man, just had the best game of Pinball I ever played!

Lost a 30 million Jackpot the last couple notes of Paradise City ...

That was after I loaded up 6 balls on the guitar neck in a power chord

What a friggin adrenaline rush!!!!

This game is like the Matrix, the more you play, the better your shots get and you start to see the code

#10211 66 days ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Am I the only one who is sick of hearing about hot coils and f$&ked up playfields? Every time I pop in this thread, it just makes me want to drink more...
Pinball used to be fun...

This isn’t pinball, dude. This is pinside.

#10212 66 days ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Am I the only one who is sick of hearing about hot coils and f$&ked up playfields? Every time I pop in this thread, it just makes me want to drink more...
Pinball used to be fun...

Sounds like you need to get on the Night Train, Choo Choo!

8945997C-2AE2-414F-94E5-36474E556DD0.jpeg
#10213 66 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Oh man, just had the best game of Pinball I ever played!
Lost a 30 million Jackpot the last couple notes of Paradise City ...
That was after I loaded up 6 balls on the guitar neck in a power chord
What a friggin adrenaline rush!!!!
This game is like the Matrix, the more you play, the better your shots get and you start to see the code

What was the payout on that?

#10214 65 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I purchased adhesive carbon fiber post ring discs from Cliffy and while we all wanted perfect playfields this is something I can live with as a way to stop the damage and have a cohesive look on the playfield.
http://www.passionforpinball.com/WIP/jp_cf_post.jpg
As a person who loves playing the games, I sought out a solution I can live with in order to keep enjoying my purchase.

zaphX how many of each size did you order, or does he sell as a set? My LE is shipping today, ordered 9-Oct (launch +4).

#10215 65 days ago
Quoted from jarozi:

zaphX how many of each size did you order, or does he sell as a set? My LE is shipping today, ordered 9-Oct (launch +4).

I ordered 10 large and 20 small - I wanted to have them in my pinball toolbox.

I’ve used 5 small ones.

#10216 65 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Sounds like you need to get on the Night Train, Choo Choo!
[quoted image]

That’s one for you and two for me, lol.

#10217 65 days ago

Just FYI...if you put a down payment on a JJP game it is non-refundable (I knew that), but it is also non-transferable. Therefore, if you come on hard times (lose your job, health expenses, whatever), it’s your problem. So, either you walk away from your deposit or you pay for the game and try to recoup your money by selling it. I’m a little disappointed in JJP with how they wash their hands of this once they have your money...and this is showing in QC too. Oh, and since it’s non-transferable, I assume the warranty won’t transfer as well.

#10218 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

Just FYI...if you put a down payment on a JJP game it is non-refundable (I knew that), but it is also non-transferable. Therefore, if you come on hard times (lose your job, health expenses, whatever), it’s your problem. So, either you walk away from your deposit or you pay for the game and try to recoup your money by selling it. I’m a little disappointed in JJP with how they wash their hands of this once they have your money...and this is showing in QC too. Oh, and since it’s non-transferable, I assume the warranty won’t transfer as well.

Kind of depends on how you placed your deposit. I had one Non-refundable with Stern and just didn't feel right about it so I simply did a charge back on the card showing known issue concerns. Refunded without question.

#10219 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

Just FYI...if you put a down payment on a JJP game it is non-refundable (I knew that), but it is also non-transferable. Therefore, if you come on hard times (lose your job, health expenses, whatever), it’s your problem. So, either you walk away from your deposit or you pay for the game and try to recoup your money by selling it. I’m a little disappointed in JJP with how they wash their hands of this once they have your money...and this is showing in QC too. Oh, and since it’s non-transferable, I assume the warranty won’t transfer as well.

Says al o t about the direction this company is heading ,, not transferable or refunded let alone issues , alot of us have been waiting since day 1 , way to go JJP ,, I doubt they care less

#10220 65 days ago
Quoted from john17a:

Says al o t about the direction this company is heading ,, not transferable or refunded let alone issues , alot of us have been waiting since day 1 , way to go JJP ,, I doubt they care less

I actually had a buyer lined up. All JJP had to do was change the name on the spot and the shipping address...very easy. But they washed their hands of this. Basically said, you bought the spot, now you’re stuck with it no matter what. I will probably just walk away from my $1000. Better that then $10000. I’m worried that if I take delivery and sell it NIB, there may be a problem that needs the warranty that I wasn’t aware of. I assume the warranty won’t transfer, so this individual that buys it is screwed...and I won’t do that to anyone else.

#10221 65 days ago

It's possible you and the buyer can work it out without JjP and still have your warranty ... You could simply tell JJP you moved and give the buyers address as the new shipping address. The buyer can assume your name identity only should any warranty come up.
It's not like there's much chance of this not working as long as both parties are understanding, imo.

#10222 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I assume the warranty won’t transfer, so this individual that buys it is screwed...and I won’t do that to anyone else.

This is exactly why JJP won’t let you off the hook. They want you to sell it so it has no warranty and it’s one less machine to deal with. JJP has really turned into Jersey Jackasses. Even the $1000 increase seems like a calculated move so that current GnR owners would not take the buy back program because it would cost them $1000 more now to replace their machine with a new one, making the buy back less attractive. Seems like Jersey Jack is spending more time and effort screwing customers than attempting to fix playfields. Unbelievable, unacceptable and unforgivable. I use to be a fanboy of JJP, but they just dug their own grave.

#10223 65 days ago
Quoted from Mahoneyj:

What was the payout on that?

Went from being a 50 million game plus to just over 20

I let out a big Noooooooooooo - Like Darth Vader - not OG Darth but the dumb new one

#10224 65 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Went from being a 50 million game plus to just over 20
I let out a big Noooooooooooo - Like Darth Vader - not OG Darth but the dumb new one

I was too greedy and left 25m jackpot on the table tonight. Just could not stop and I should have.

#10225 65 days ago
Quoted from Mahoneyj:

I was too greedy and left 25m jackpot on the table tonight. Just could not stop and I should have.

My biggest squandered loss so far is 54M. It hurts so good.

#10226 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I actually had a buyer lined up. All JJP had to do was change the name on the spot and the shipping address...very easy. But they washed their hands of this. Basically said, you bought the spot, now you’re stuck with it no matter what. I will probably just walk away from my $1000. Better that then $10000. I’m worried that if I take delivery and sell it NIB, there may be a problem that needs the warranty that I wasn’t aware of. I assume the warranty won’t transfer, so this individual that buys it is screwed...and I won’t do that to anyone else.

It's my experience JJP will honor the warranty.

I have told the directly I'm not original owner and they always took care of me.
Even after warranty was years past they still bent over backwards to take care of any issues I had.
They are definitely trustworthy.
I'm also a big fan of their pinball machines.

This is the way

#10227 65 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

It's my experience JJP will honor the warranty.
I have told the directly I'm not original owner and they always took care of me.
Even after warranty was years past they still bent over backwards to take care of any issues I had.
They are definitely trustworthy.
I'm also a big fan of their pinball machines.
This is the way

Ok...that’s Mandalorian....so a Stern.... Seriously, I am hoping you are correct on this machine, but the quite frank discussion I had with Jen about the easy transfer (and that is a hard no go), it gives me pause as to what else is a no go. I hope I am wrong on the warranty, but the non-transferable is solid...from Jen.

#10228 65 days ago

How could that possibly hurt them? They still get the same $ and deliver the machine the same. Just a different name on the invoice.

I'd think that would be illegal.

#10229 65 days ago
Quoted from punkin:

How could that possibly hurt them? They still get the same $ and deliver the machine the same.

That’s what I and the buyer thought...but Jen said it wasn’t her problem and the game was in my name and would remain in my name. I was really looking forward to my first JJP, and the playfield issues did give me pause, but the way the company handles all of this QC and other issues (transfer of spots), let’s me know I don’t really want to deal with JJP right now. I hope this changes...it’s just disappointing. Just FYI...I was selling my spot for $1000...I wasn’t looking to make any profit or “flip” a $9500 spot.

#10230 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

Ok...that’s Mandalorian....so a Stern.... Seriously, I am hoping you are correct on this machine, but the quite frank discussion I had with Jen about the easy transfer (and that is a hard no go), it gives me pause as to what else is a no go. I hope I am wrong on the warranty, but the non-transferable is solid...from Jen.

Yes can't help but drop the Mando looks fun.

You'll be fine just sell some pins and pay for GNR

I'm just stating they have always been amazing to me.
Have a Wonka LE playfield new in box do to some issues.

I enjoy Stern as well

#10231 65 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Yes can't help but drop the Mando looks fun.
You'll be fine just sell some pins and pay for GNR
I'm just stating they have always been amazing to me.
Have a Wonka LE playfield new in box do to some issues.
I enjoy Stern as well

I’ve decided I’m out on GNR. Hopefully I get my first JJP in the future, but not right now. To those that love their JJP...I’m not throwing any shade, just not for me right now.

#10232 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I’ve decided I’m out on GNR. Hopefully I get my first JJP in the future, but not right now. To those that love their JJP...I’m not throwing any shade, just not for me right now.

Sorry to hear that.
Be well and pin on.

#10233 65 days ago

My distributor notified me that my GNR LE is shipping this week, ordered on December 15th. Game is paid in full, can't wait to receive this masterpiece and bolt on all of the Lior mods I've been stockpiling. Hoping for no issues, but either way, I plan to address all trouble areas before playing a single ball. It's been a long time since I had a GNR (Data East) in the lineup and I have a feeling this JJP is going to blow me away. I'm ready for the @#%*&% jungle baby!

#10234 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I’ve decided I’m out on GNR. Hopefully I get my first JJP in the future, but not right now. To those that love their JJP...I’m not throwing any shade, just not for me right now.

If I were you I'd sell for 1000 now to someone and once ready to ship change address to the buyers. Then they can pay the balance to me. It can stay in my name for the warranty. No problem. JJP will never know the difference.

If I was the buyer and could save a grand but had to have it in someone name but was my address for parts, etc ... It's a done deal in a new York second.

No way am I losing a thousand when it's easy to arrange like that....

#10235 65 days ago
Quoted from darkryder:

My distributor notified me that my GNR LE is shipping this week, ordered on December 15th. Game is paid in full, can't wait to receive this masterpiece and bolt on all of the Lior mods I've been stockpiling. Hoping for no issues, but either way, I plan to address all trouble areas before playing a single ball. It's been a long time since I had a GNR (Data East) in the lineup and I have a feeling this JJP is going to blow me away. I'm ready for the @#%*&% jungle baby!

That's exciting. I think that's the latest date I've seen here. I'm 12/30 but I'm in the mofo JJP line...

#10236 65 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

If I were you I'd sell for 1000 now to someone and once ready to ship change address to the buyers. Then they can pay the balance to me. It can stay in my name for the warranty. No problem. JJP will never know the difference.
If I was the buyer and could save a grand but had to have it in someone name but was my address for parts, etc ... It's a done deal in a new York second.
No way am I losing a thousand when it's easy to arrange like that....

Why can’t it be more on the level. All this back sided stuff just feels wrong and unnecessary.
Common denominator is JJP. Very sad.

#10237 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

Why can’t it be more on the level. All this back sided stuff just feels wrong and unnecessary.
Common denominator is JJP. Very sad.

Guess this really doesn't make sense to me. From my understanding, the day it arrives the Owner of the pin registers the game, number, and identification and that triggers the warranty. (for what that worth lol). When JJP ships 30 games to a distributor they have no Clue who the owner is or how long it sat dormant at the distributor Till the game is registered. I have never had an issue with JJP on this or Stern personally. You may need to complete the purchase so they Know its paid for but outside of that I doubt they give a whoop who owns it.

Should Note. I Did however have a similar issue when buying a Stern LE or JJP CE. Those they will rarely let you pass off. Mine they wouldn't.

#10238 65 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Guess this really doesn't make sense to me. From my understanding, the day it arrives the Owner of the pin registers the game, number, and identification and that triggers the warranty. (for what that worth lol). When JJP ships 30 games to a distributor they have no Clue who the owner is or how long it sat dormant at the distributor Till the game is registered. I have never had an issue with JJP on this or Stern personally. You may need to complete the purchase so they Know its paid for but outside of that I doubt they give a whoop who owns it.
Should Note. I Did however have a similar issue when buying a Stern LE or JJP CE. Those they will rarely let you pass off. Mine they wouldn't.

I see your point. But it’s $1000 vs. $10000 out of my pocket for the gamble. Just not willing to stomach that. Know when to hold them, know when to fold them, and know when to run...as a wise man said.

#10239 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I see your point. But it’s $1000 vs. $10000 out of my pocket for the gamble. Just not willing to stomach that. Know when to hold them, know when to fold them, and know when to run...as a wise man said.

You need to do what you are comfortable No question. IF however you were in at the 9500 price I personally would buy and flip the next day for 11 like everyone else.

#10240 65 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

My GNR playfield isn’t chipping or pooling. It’s build date is 1994. Just sayin
[quoted image]

Kryptonite playfield coatings....

1 (resized).png
#10241 65 days ago

Yeah it’s sad I’m not worried about my GNR that’s almost 30 years old but I need to put baby diapers on the JJP NIB GNR before I play a single ball on it. Whackness!

#10242 65 days ago
Quoted from darkryder:

My distributor notified me that my GNR LE is shipping this week, ordered on December 15th. Game is paid in full, can't wait to receive this masterpiece and bolt on all of the Lior mods I've been stockpiling. Hoping for no issues, but either way, I plan to address all trouble areas before playing a single ball. It's been a long time since I had a GNR (Data East) in the lineup and I have a feeling this JJP is going to blow me away. I'm ready for the @#%*&% jungle baby!

Wow, that was a big jump for JJP to already reach mid December orders. Does this mean their manufacturing is accelerating?

#10243 65 days ago

Reading the thread, it’s been interesting learning about the lack of good consumer protection laws in the US. Here in New Zealand, and quite a few other countries, if there was a significant fault with a product, the distributor and/or the manufacturer would have to repair or replace, and if that’s not possible, fully refund. That wouldn’t be good news for the local distributors, as they would be your first point of recourse - they would have to make things good, regardless of whether they could recoup things from the manufacturer or not.

In addition, the manufacturer’s warranty is really only a starting point. Essentially the distributor and/or manufacturer has to provide a warranty for a reasonable period. What is reasonable is up to the judgement of the courts, and takes into account factors such as the nature of the product and cost. A TV could be 3 years+ for example, and a pinball machine, maybe 5 years+.

#10244 65 days ago
Quoted from Zanado:

Reading the thread, it’s been interesting learning about the lack of good consumer protection laws in the US. Here in New Zealand, and quite a few other countries, if there was a significant fault with a product, the distributor and/or the manufacturer would have to repair or replace, and if that’s not possible, fully refund. That wouldn’t be good news for the local distributors, as they would be your first point of recourse - they would have to make things good, regardless of whether they could recoup things from the manufacturer or not.
In addition, the manufacturer’s warranty is really only a starting point. Essentially the distributor and/or manufacturer has to provide a warranty for a reasonable period. What is reasonable is up to the judgement of the courts, and takes into account factors such as the nature of the product and cost. A TV could be 3 years+ for example, and a pinball machine, maybe 5 years+.

California has some protection laws, so JJP will not be off the hook here no matter what warranty they wrote

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20151211-column.html

“ Under California’s Lemon Law, manufacturers of most household electronic goods that sell for more than $100 have to provide spare parts for up to seven years, regardless of warranty status.”

#10245 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

That’s what I and the buyer thought...but Jen said it wasn’t her problem and the game was in my name and would remain in my name. I was really looking forward to my first JJP, and the playfield issues did give me pause, but the way the company handles all of this QC and other issues (transfer of spots), let’s me know I don’t really want to deal with JJP right now. I hope this changes...it’s just disappointing. Just FYI...I was selling my spot for $1000...I wasn’t looking to make any profit or “flip” a $9500 spot.

i had the same experience with Jen ,,,, this company was entirely different when Jack had control

#10246 65 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I see your point. But it’s $1000 vs. $10000 out of my pocket for the gamble. Just not willing to stomach that. Know when to hold them, know when to fold them, and know when to run...as a wise man said.

Mate , don't throw away your deposit .
Wait for your game and sell it nib .
Lots of people have no issues and have perfect playfields .
Even if you had an issue with your Playfield , it's not like jjp is gonna do anything about it anyway .
Just like people paying 38 k for NIB potc ce , buyer beware .

#10247 65 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

You need to do what you are comfortable No question. IF however you were in at the 9500 price I personally would buy and flip the next day for 11 like everyone else.

Sell your game off Pinside for a profit, where people know about these widespread issues.

This is where we’re at.

#10248 64 days ago
48B80ABF-AAB7-4C22-B0CC-A3B8ECF543ED (resized).png
#10249 64 days ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

[quoted image]

Skyemont, where in midlothian are you? I am in salisbury.

#10250 64 days ago

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