I agree. Also what was the resolution to the CE issue? What did JJP do to resolve this.

Down the Line i bought a KISS LE second hand (preferred method of buying) and was ok with not having it.
on a Profit sense perhaps but Pinball for me is not about the money and i was pissed i got a crap NIB one and others got Pristine ones and i had a Great Distro Gamers exchange but he did all he could and then it was up to John Buscalari and he was a Jerk and very rude .
Not that by that time with all the back and forth emails and pictures and me having 2 NIB Games GOT and KISS with NIB probs like a Screw up through the playfield on Got Above the flippers and Kiss with a Huge in-lane Crack i was most likely a pain to deal with at the time but did not know i was also suffering from lyme Disease (undiagnosed at the time) . All they needed to do was Send me unpopulated one of each i would have been fine. Instead they went the more costly way and paid for Shipping for empty boxes / One playfield Both ways and then Paying for the whole game to go back to stern which the Carrier tried to charge me 600. and had to contact stern to rectify that and didn't even bother with GOT pro and sold it at below cost with defect and Bought a Second GOT pro from JJ even though Stern did not treat me well. However Pro's were only 4500 then
would have been cheaper for them to send the two damn playfields one box. one time shipped and be done .
Nope ,they done it for others but not me .Why? Don't know . Just my shit luck or because J.B is an Ass.

whoa whoa whoa... only talk of playfield issues are allowed anymore in this thread.

kidding aside, that is interesting question as I have not noticed one when I usually end up changing that setting on most of my games.

There is a start ball time. I can't remember where, but we increased ours.

Page 35 in the manual. System Settings - Ball Save Time

LTG : )

Well i finished November rain fully for the first time, that was fun. Too bad my other 3 balls sucked....

I find myself really worrying about my playfield with all this talk. I have an April 2021 LE like some others who have had issues but so far is flawless through about 50 plays(not counting sling rubbers instantly evaporating). Has to be way more plays as I restart after ball 1 a lot. I have the cliffys and dont even think Im going to install it as I dont want to go through the hassle of removing upper PF. Im just going to try and enjoy this thing and if it falls apart Ill call melissa at cointaker and see what my options are....

Yeah I’m sadly glad mine is not expected until later this year. If I’m lucky JJP will ditch Mirco and start using another mfg before mine in built & shipped

Here's why they wont switch. For the majority of people if you arent on pinside chances are you have no idea of QC issues.

Let's be realistic here...who would they switch to?

It's not like there are a ton of playfield manufacturers in the world.

I personally would love to see hardtops and call it done.

Why in the world would I want to go through that hassle just to come out even?

Bader and CPR both come to mind. Both are successfully doing non-pooling non chipping/flaking playfields en masse. Bader is even not that far away from the JJP factory.

There are options.

Bader's RM really did look nice. Haven't seen a CPR playfield.

I've had quite a few (including a Shadow waiting for a machine to come along to go with it) and they do very nice work. Aside from the odd color issues that come along when reproducing old playfields, the technicals of what they do (art, adhesing, wood blank quality, clear) are very good, though the clear is occasionally too thick for my taste.

I think Bader is a no-brainer due to proximity to JJP's factory and the quality of their R&M work (but NOT with the thinner playfield) now.

I don't know if CPR could handle JJPs volume, or if Bader is available to do JJP's PFs, but EITHER could definitely turn out better lasting work than Mirco has been shoveling out the back door.

Haggis is moving forward with their playfield tech, just saying.

Probably all the companies are watching that with interest.,

Really disappointed to see this on my CE. I hope fellow owners don’t have this happen to their playfields. This was my first JJP machine, and am not impressed.

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Same place mine started. Sorry this is happening to you. GNR was my first NIB and its a horrible feeling.

Has anyone changed the rubbers to there out lane posts, maybe bigger ones or know a solution to the balls draining on the outer lanes 80% of the time, THANKS!!

Another cool Topper mod by Lior. :}:}:} Looks Awesome as always comeing from Lior

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpinside.com%2Fpinball%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Fjjp-guns-n-roses-sculpted-mods-by-the-art-of-pinball%2Fpage%2F9%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2geAb5huULiODjw9MejsnPvJKFattqg1yc4LphdCrofoneNe5nV5wAVVA%23post-6295412&h=AT1VvNxHMS4yc3qZt2DouqVhyPZhjBn9fkm_aFX0D7SJbaN1Sk95vTgJDQcoqXdhD9v2HugxucecjkZdzRI3sozI9LUmYa_DxYg11OayqZbnr3R8UCf4YQGgrwwD-WSzhbCrhCGofPg

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I changed everything to Titans...went to 2 1/4 on Slings they stretch to the same length as the 2 inch garbage from the factory..but don’t disintegrate

https://modfatherpinball.com/collections/guns-n-roses/products/guns-n-roses-shooter-rose

I got mine the other day, I'll install it when my all the other things I ordered for the game show up.

Serious question. Can my spot be transferred? Do I contact JJP? I have a spot ordered at the beginning of February 2021, it’s a $9500 LE spot. I’m not looking to make money, just transfer the spot and get my $1000 back. I love GNR...but things have changed.

Hello
Looking to acquire an LE model. Any thoughts (please keep it constructive). I know it’s popular and hard to find.

Thank you

I don’t think JJP would switch because of Pinside complaints. I’d like to believe they would switch because it’s making their games and reputation look bad. I don’t read the car forums but if I had numerous issues with a particular car I wouldn’t buy it again. Don’t need a forum to tell me that

Looks great, but the guitar needs a longer neck or a smaller body. Looks like a ukulele as is.

I would remove the post above the pops, between and below the “a” and “x” lanes for a look. It takes a while for the soft paint to move enough to force lifting outside of the washer circumference, if that makes any sense. Plastic washers now, and maybe some vinyl ironing to “set” the clear (apparently that’s a thing) may keep the visible damage to a minimum. Good luck!

What are my options? I have an LE on order from JJP (Oct-9). Not happy about the playfield damage. Jen G told me no refund. I don't really want a refund, I want a minimally f'ed machine. I had a pirates with pooling that I was able to hide w/ the PHAT posts and washers provided by JJP. But this one seems like it's even more F'ed than a Pirates, which, wow!

Good eye - I wondered what was off.

Look at the post just prior to yours or jarozi post just above.. it's like roaches when the lights come on. Fire sale!

Not really fire sale home-skillet. Just curious what JJP might be doing to help those they are F'ing. That's all, thank you sir.

I just spent a LONG evening throwing plastic washers under every post I could easily get to. About 18 washers. Even under posts where it looked ok I had pooling. Every post had pooling. Thankfully no tears. Left orbit ball guide was gonna be a disaster. The washer was torqued to the point it was bent. Most washers had the sharp edge facing down.

Also, what kind of psychopath puts stainless (non magnetic) washers under posts and pretty much everywhere else?

Also installed the new spotlights that came in. Easy job.

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JjP will send you new washers. That's apparently it. The same washers that are tearing the art work.

You asked for options..... Selling is one option and one would think it's something you are considering if you're asking Jen about refunds. Sorry for the misunderstanding home fry.

What everyone is doing fixing and rebuilding their machines and adding plastic washers seems to be the best thing going right now..

JJP sent me washers for Pirates as I mentioned, so was wondering what they might be doing beyond that for GnR beyond that completely token effort. Thanks for your feedback!

Edit.

Curious is people have pooling issues straight out the box? At this point when mine arrives, sounds like I need to inspect each one (maybe even remove all the posts) and let the PF dry for 5 months? I have several pins from the 90s and have never seen this

I know that washer and exact spot all too well.. it's what drew me to the whole problem in the first place. I could tell it was way over torqued just by looking at it . I don't know whether to thank the person who cranked destroyed that washer at the factory or thank them because they got me to look at the rest of the playfield before the shit show started

Instead of properly aligning that guide rail and then carefully adjusting torque they just got on the bottom of that nut and cranked until the guide rail positioned itself to where they needed it to be

amateur hour whoever did that... And it didn't take much of an effort to do it the correct way just either lazy or incompetent is my guess

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What size plastic washers and would you happen to have a link? Im kind of afraid that even taking the posts off will mess with the paint...So Im hesitant to even try...

I was also thinking they tightened it to get the rail right but there seemed to be plenty of play in the guide when I loosened the first two nuts. Weird. That was one of my worst areas

3/4 in PETG... Couple spots where 7/8 works also... Some people may like the blue 7/8 on the upper playfield where alot of damage is occurring... Titan has those

Hold the washer with your finger as you twist the post (most are t posts but there are some bolt through) that way you're not doing extra damage if there is any...

Pinball life has them as well as Titan

petg?

nm i found them on Pinball life. still dunno what petg is but im assuming plastic?

Yep same here miraculously that one ironed out pretty nicely and I can't even see it after my fix.

I'm going to have to take a break from helping people on here (lol j/k)cuz it keeps drumming up bad images of the damage when right now honestly my play field looks really good and I haven't had damage in over 500 plays. The clear washers really blend into the playfield well and with all the lights going I don't see them I asked my wife to come in and take a look and asked if she noticed anything I changed.. I had to really closely point out areas and until I actually pointed the washers out she's like ..oh that looks like it came from the factory like that

I got to say I love the pin it's a super glassy playfield honestly for what it's worth I compare it to my Jurassic Park and the Guns and Roses looks spectacular nice glossy shiny smooth.. If it wasn't for those stupid post areas would be 100% home run despite all the problems I've had.

So for now I'm just going to keep helping people but try not to get too bogged down and all the issues I've emailed my distro and Jersey Jack I hope they make good on it and change things for future buyers even if it's behind the scenes and we really don't hear about it I'd like to see them make future changes going forward so this isn't an issue for other people.

https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html

It's a plastic that's highly resistant to impact, solvents, and heat used a lot in 3D printing also... Stronger than lexan

https://www.acmeplastics.com/what-is-petg

I'm torn a bit. On the one hand, I've never had these problems on any non-JJP machine. On the other, the one JJP machine I had, a POTC, once the PHAT posts and washers were installed you never saw the bubbling. Seems like in this case though, it's more than just the sling posts.

I mean if they are all forked, not sure this impacts value much, since they are ALL forked, with few exceptions it seems.

thanks for all the help youve been awesome in this thread. Ive ordered the washers, but I still am super nervous to unscrew those posts! Feel like itll take the art with it.

Just apply light finger pressure to the washer as you twist You won't be doing any playfield damage... And it'll stop the twisting if any of the washer...

Also you only need a couple light twists of a hex wrench or a screwdriver to loosen up those posts and then you can pull up with your fingers as you hand twist off the post.. that way you're not applying downward pressure to the post onto the washer that'll prevent it also from turning

If it does come up just by twisting off a post it was going to come up anyway over time

thanks again

What size washer? 7/8’’?

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3/4

I only used a couple 7/8

3/4 in PETG is the new Dogecoin... To the moon!!!

How long did it take PB to get a manufacturer for their new alien pf´s?
JJp has had five years to deal with this crap and are still using crapco and his defective shite manufacturing process.....

On a possible solution for current problems...
There really is none. It´s like jjp want to fail.

For any kind of saving process for theese games, maybe if you can get a pf-protector producer to do a protector for the whole playfield, so you get the protector acting like a washer, but that means a total reinstall on all that is on.

If JJp wanna even come close to doing good, they go to bader or some new experienced in protective coatings, with a bag of money asking them to do playfields and start shipping them.

Also ofc, never ever talk to crapco again.