Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (SE)
Jersey Jack, 2020Quoted from punkin:Thanks for the offer pinball life, but $67US to ship 30 washers doesn't sound too appealing for some reason.
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GladIt'sNotAPlayfieldPunkin
Terry is good mate, he has refunded excess post costs that are system generated, usually about 1/3rd.
Agree RTBB is go to for value.
Super nice of Vic to offer to help out.
punkin have you got any of this pooling crap mate ? your game is mint and I didn't notice any when I played.
Any advice for pinballs going past the shooter lane gate and then going back down? During multiball it is the most annoying because it will go up the shooter lane and then back down while your ball saves running, I tried to adjust our shooter lane gate and I loosened each side and no go! Thanks for any advice!
232 (resized).JPGQuoted from blkspiderman:Any advice for pinballs going past the shooter lane gate and then going back down? During multiball it is the most annoying because it will go up the shooter lane and then back down while your ball saves running, I tried to adjust our shooter lane gate and I loosened each side and no go! Thanks for any advice!
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Add 2 washers to each post between part 1 and part 2. Fixed it 100% for me.
Quoted from RA77:Terry is good mate, he has refunded excess post costs that are system generated, usually about 1/3rd.
Agree RTBB is go to for value.
Super nice of Vic to offer to help out.
punkin have you got any of this pooling crap mate ? your game is mint and I didn't notice any when I played.
Yes mate, up top on the axle post. Pool and tear the same as others have posted. Haven't noticed any others.
Quoted from megalo17:147 games played on one of the newest playfields. Manufacture date: 4/21. It took at least 500 more plays on POTC before damage of this magnitude showed up. Anyone defending JJP's shortsighted policy of ignorance is bliss either has skin in the game, or needs to pay more taxes. This is not the cost of playing pinball! I wholeheartedly agree that Eric and Slash and team have designed one of the best pinball machines of all time! Hands down. No argument there. That does not mean that I should feel privileged and honored to spend premium pinball prices on a pin in which the paint is literally flaking off a mere 2 weeks after delivery. If I wanted to throw my money down the drain I would've bought a Homepin.
This is not the distributor's problem or solution. They have no say in who makes the playfield, and no means to fix it, other than the bandaids currently offered. I've recommended to JJP that the least they can do for us is sell us a properly manufactured, unpopulated playfield at cost. The reply was a curt "we no longer deal with customers about these issues," translated to "pack sand." While I'm not in this hobby for the money, I'm definitely not in it to throw any more money away than I have to. Would you accept paint peeling off of your car before the first oil change, and say "welp, I guess I should just be happy to be able to drive this sweet car?" Umm, nope. This is one of the most expensive parts of the pin, and by far the hardest to swap out. Anyone think of the operator's out there who have one of these on location? They'd better hope it gets 10k plays on it, because resale will be a challenge.
Some of you might look at this damage and downplay it, but if all indications are correct, this is just the tip of the iceberg. None of us should have to deal with this clear manufacturer's defect. None of us should be treated like we're an easily replaceable commodity by JJP. They're clearly at fault, and their reputation is at stake, along with my future purchases, or lack thereof.
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Damn. I was hoping that by the time I got my GnR that the playfield issues would be resolved, but if this happened to a PF that has a build date of 4/21, I have to seriously considering asking for my deposit back.
Completely unacceptable. 
Quoted from Xelz:Anyone with 500+ plays not have any pooling, flaking, or cracking damage currently? Trying to get a sense of how likely it is to get a playfield that doesn’t eventually develop pooling problems.
I have close to 700 plays and have no pf issues. Not sure of build date but I’ve had it since early December.
Quoted from Xelz:Anyone with 500+ plays not have any pooling, flaking, or cracking damage currently? Trying to get a sense of how likely it is to get a playfield that doesn’t eventually develop pooling problems.
Just shy of 500 plays on mine and playfield is perfect. Early December build.
Quoted from Nemotheeskie:Just shy of 500 plays on mine and playfield is perfect. Early December build.
I wonder if the very early ones were using playfields that had been sitting in the warehouse curing for months and months during COVID-19 lockdown, a luxury ones that came later didn't have.
So some lawyer can make millions and I can get a $68.55 check?
No thanks.
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:I believe a class action lawsuit should be in the works.
Quoted from RobT:Damn. I was hoping that by the time I got my GnR that the playfield issues would be resolved, but if this happened to a PF that has a build date of 4/21, I have to seriously considering asking for my deposit back.
Completely unacceptable.
Actually considering taking what I had paid down and just grabbing a JP Prem instead for now, and see what the PF situation looks like a year down the road.
Quoted from John1210:Posted these on the other thread. Unacceptable for a new game.
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So sorry to see that. Could I please ask what did JJP say?
Quoted from John1210:Posted these on the other thread. Unacceptable for a new game.
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Looking at that picture it seems to me metal washers are the worst thing you can put under a post that’s threaded into a PF.I would think the best thing to use would be a rubber washer .It needs to have “give”.I used to build high rises years ago and that’s exactly why we built them to sway.A post on a pinball machine is no different except getting hit by a steel ball going ?70 mph is more severe than a 70 mph wind burst .Now that I’m thinking of this I’m going to put a thin rubber washer under every post .If I can find them like 1/16 or 1/32 in width I don’t think I would lose must action .Best of luck bud I’d try the yellobird iron on that and when I get to installing these and test them I’ll post on it .Best of luck to all this pin is too much fun to give up on 
Quoted from PinMonk:I wonder if the very early ones were using playfields that had been sitting in the warehouse curing for months and months during COVID-19 lockdown, a luxury ones that came later didn't have.
I imagine that the amount of bad play fields with the issue is actually fairly small. They’ve shipped 100’s already and we’re only hearing from a vocal minority. They have every right to be vocal but the ones having no issues are probably enjoying their game not posting how perfect their playfields are either.
Quoted from BrianJ1337:I imagine that the amount of bad play fields with the issue is actually fairly small. They’ve shipped 100’s already and we’re only hearing from a vocal minority. They have every right to be vocal but the ones having no issues are probably enjoying their game not posting how perfect their playfields are either.
Aside from maybe the very initial ones made with long-cured COVID lottery payfields that sat extra-long in the warehouse waiting for the line to start, they're likely all affected. The kind of damage these are showing are not the odd defect, but a systemic problem with the way they're being made. I think a lot just haven't noticed since some of these posts are out of the way areas that you don't notice without looking specifically.
But the fact that this same problem has been substantially seen across THREE JJP RELEASES in a ROW is not a good sign that this isn't widespread.
Also the fact that JJP's new customer-hostile policy is just buying back machines rather than fixing or shipping a spare playfield as they have before says there was potentially a large financial hit by taking care of the affected parties for jjGnR the way they did on Wonka and jjPotC. Don't like our defective playfields in our new $11k machine? No GnR for you!
We'll see.
Quoted from Kkoss24:Bingo
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Just be careful. Some kinds of rubber blends can interact poorly with the clear (cloud it, etc). Maybe do a test one or two in an out of sight area for a while first.
Quoted from PinMonk:Just be careful. Some kinds of rubber blends can interact poorly with the clear. Maybe do a test one or two in an out of sight area for a while first.
That’s a great idea I’ll do that as I have no issues yet it can’t hurt .I like experimenting I have a “never give up “ attitude .Thabks for that last IMDN order bud can’t wait to dress her up .
Quoted from PinMonk:Just be careful. Some kinds of rubber blends can interact poorly with the clear. Maybe do a test one or two in an out of sight area for a while first.
Or maybe put something like a “stick on “ material on the underneath that will not effect it ? Any suggestions would be welcomed .
Quoted from Kkoss24:Or maybe put something like a “stick on “ material on the underneath that will not effect it ? Any suggestions would be welcomed .
Unfortunately I don't have any firsthand experimentation with the rubber/neoprene blend gaskets to report what works best or if putting mylar under first would offset possible chemical interactions between the rubber blend over time.
So, I'm...bettin' it all on you! Whoo hoo!
Quoted from PinFever:i call BS. Stern Only Sent me a Populated Playfield once i sent them mine on KISS pro. I would have had to do it on GOT pro as well. ,So not sure how he got a Populated playfield and sold it and not having sent one back.
It was a blank playfield, not populated. And it did make him happy and in the end I'd say he made out better than he would have had he just got a clear windowed game. That certainly wasn't his intent. I've heard of Stern doing this on several titles, actually, if the owner of the game agrees to it.
I do also know of someone in state that got a populated AC/DC Premium playfield, and you are absolutely correct that he had to send his old one back. Although he worked it out through his distributor and kept the old playfield in and he and the distro pulled the "bad" one and installed the new one, at which point his distributor took possesion of the bad playfield.
Stern had the decency to replace my factory defective playfield (sinking major insert due to improper routering). Fully populated. Send old one in first in self addressed, stamped box. Here’s the kicker: I wasn’t the original owner! I bought it with 40 plays. All I’m asking for from JJP is an unpopulated, defect free playfield. It’s literally the least an honorable company who cares about their reputation can do. I will get it properly clear coated on my dime, and do the swap after a proper cure time. This issue is pretty far beyond a vocal minority.
Quoted from zaphX:I wasn't going to engage on this issue, but yes - I'm affected too. (Note: we do have a VERY HIGH play count over 3000 and have already rebuilt the flippers once, that's how much we love/play this game.)
I purchased adhesive carbon fiber post ring discs from Cliffy and while we all wanted perfect playfields this is something I can live with as a way to stop the damage and have a cohesive look on the playfield.
http://www.passionforpinball.com/WIP/jp_cf_post.jpg
As a person who loves playing the games, I sought out a solution I can live with in order to keep enjoying my purchase.
Not interested in hearing any hate over it, if this isn't for you so be it.
Sharing this in the interest of offering up a stopgap for those who want one.
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Glad you are happy but can I ask - have you reported to JJP? I can imagine with time you needing a lot more carbon washers sadly.
I think its really important that everyone reports this to the distro/JJP. I have same problem on my LE.
And those thinking that this is a small vocal minority - it isn't.
Neil.
I thought the special QC Mirco stamp under the apron assured QC on these new GnR's
This video Sep 12 2019................................................
If the playfield issue was permanently corrected then JJP wouldn't be using any washers at all. By installing washers in the game JJP is pretty much admitting that they know there's an issue with playfields. Its better then nothing but also unacceptable.
I'm now on the fence about getting my LE from last year. Would love to own this game but these playfield issues are unbelievable.
I read on Titans website that their silicone washers are for plastic posts only. Probably because they “grab” plastic better than metal. I wish I read that before buying a bunch. Oh well. Plastic it is
What worries me is that this may be an issue with the ink not adhering to the wood rather than strictly a problem with the clear. If the ink was fine, then the clear coat could improve with time as it cures. Or you could re-coat it (if you wanted to go through the trouble and expense).
But if the ink doesn’t adhere, imagine painting something without properly priming it first. The world’s best clear coat won’t matter if the substance underneath it doesn’t grab the wood. The paint (or ink in this case) can slowly separate and flake off over time, starting in higher impact areas and edges, and then spread outward from there.
I’m not a clearcoatologist, but just some observations. I removed an affected post today, very carefully, then the metal washer from factory. While the washer was embedded in the clear, no paint came up with it when removed, however the paint is clearly ripped under the post. It may be revealing to see some posts removed prior to any play. Not that it will help us repair our defective playfields. Seems like the metal washer may be cutting the paint on one half since the force applied to this particular post comes from below, due to the pop bumpers. As the separated paint is forced towards the hole it caused buckling of the paint on both sides of the post, which is how it decided to reveal its ugly head. Or maybe I’m out to lunch.
6EA0C8E0-E421-4DDD-8308-998EF53A2C23 (resized).jpegE31B20BE-27C3-42F9-B299-1BB5A3FF6D45 (resized).jpegQuoted from DeathHimself:Actually considering taking what I had paid down and just grabbing a JP Prem instead for now, and see what the PF situation looks like a year down the road.
It would cost me an additional $1k to do that since I got my deposit in just prior to the $1k price hike.
If I bail, it will be permanently.
Quoted from RobT:It would cost me an additional $1k to do that since I got my deposit in just prior to the $1k price hike.
If I bail, it will be permanently.
You might be able to get your deposit back plus some if you can xfer your spot.
Wow/ I was refused a New Unpopulated playfield and stern had me send my populated one back, once i got it back it had the crack on opposite side from the one i sent in and Also had Ghosting inserts so basically sent me an even worse populated Playfield back .
then when i complained about it,stern bought the game back /refunding me my money . it is why i no longer have kiss pro /
had they Just sent me a New Playfield unpopulated i would also have been happy but instead this all cost stern allot having covered all that shipping . And i had to lose a Kiss Pro . Not good customer service at all in my opinion
. I think he may have been partially correct
Quoted from Cobray:It was a blank playfield, not populated. And it did make him happy and in the end I'd say he made out better than he would have had he just got a clear windowed game. That certainly wasn't his intent. I've heard of Stern doing this on several titles, actually, if the owner of the game agrees to it.
I do also know of someone in state that got a populated AC/DC Premium playfield, and you are absolutely correct that he had to send his old one back. Although he worked it out through his distributor and kept the old playfield in and he and the distro pulled the "bad" one and installed the new one, at which point his distributor took possesion of the bad playfield.
Quoted from gunstarhero:Or just buy it and sell it NIB for what you’re into it. Someone gets a deal and you come out even.
I'm not sure the warranty would transfer in that case since the buyer is second owner, plus if any issues in shipping the headache would not be welcome.
I think better to off load the spot clean and make a quick buck.
Quoted from Vespula:I'm not sure the warranty would transfer in that case since the buyer is second owner, plus if any issues in shipping the headache would not be welcome.
I think better to off load the spot clean and make a quick buck.
That’s a good point.
Quoted from Xier:Does anybody know what the "Flipper Shenanigans" setting in Game > NSFTD does?
Lets not say here so we don't spoil the final wizard mode.
Quoted from RobT:It would cost me an additional $1k to do that since I got my deposit in just prior to the $1k price hike.
If I bail, it will be permanently.
Maybe you can ask your distro just to pass by your spot at the moment and see how this PF situation plays out in a few months from now. Then again if it never does get corrected and you buy another title instead it wouldn't cost you that extra 1K if you are passing on the GNR due to defects.
Just thinking out loud here as many of us are in this boat together.........without a rudder lol.
It’s probably wider spread than we know.
There are quite a few owners who don’t post on pinside and/or don’t even notice the defects.
I know a Belgian collector who has a Willy Wonka and GnR standard and both have been affected... 
Like I posted before, would love to own a GnR LE but these issues really make it very tough decision for me 
Has a nice rose shooter been released yet? Still waiting for one to pop up. Only aware of the generic rose shooter from tilt I believe. Might just end up getting that one if need be.
Only interested in a rose shooter btw - I know of liors work.
Quoted from delt31:Has a nice rose shooter been released yet? Still waiting for one to pop up. Only aware of the generic rose shooter from tilt I believe. Might just end up getting that one if need be.
Only interested in a rose shooter btw - I know of liors work.
Red is out of stock, but there are two black ones in stock
https://cointaker.com/products/guns-n-roses-shooter-rod
Quoted from RobT:Damn. I was hoping that by the time I got my GnR that the playfield issues would be resolved, but if this happened to a PF that has a build date of 4/21, I have to seriously considering asking for my deposit back.
Completely unacceptable.
Now i am worry too. I am supposed to get mine in July.
It’s possible the problem gets worse as well.
Quoted from DeathHimself:Maybe you can ask your distro just to pass by your spot at the moment and see how this PF situation plays out in a few months from now.
Quoted from PinFever:Wow/ I was refused a New Unpopulated playfield and stern had me send my populated one back, once i got it back it had the crack on opposite side from the one i sent in and Also had Ghosting inserts so basically sent me an even worse populated Playfield back .
then when i complained about it,stern bought the game back /refunding me my money . it is why i no longer have kiss pro /
had they Just sent me a New Playfield unpopulated i would also have been happy but instead this all cost stern allot having covered all that shipping . And i had to lose a Kiss Pro . Not good customer service at all in my opinion
. I think he may have been partially correct
Wow that's awful. Sorry to hear that. It's amazing to hear/see the differences in how people are handled!
They guys I know that got the replacements had a strong relationship with their distributor and I know for a fact that their distributor went to bat for them to make things right. Not sure if this is it or not?
And I bet you with you had that Kiss pro now!!
Quoted from Cobray:Wow that's awful. Sorry to hear that. It's amazing to hear/see the differences in how people are handled!
They guys I know that got the replacements had a strong relationship with their distributor and I know for a fact that their distributor went to bat for them to make things right. Not sure if this is it or not?
And I bet you with you had that Kiss pro now!!
My understanding is that the policy was straight changed part of the way into the GNR release. The new owners just don't care about anything other than making a profit. JJP has never been profitable, but sending out replacement playfields to every 5th person (or whatever the number might be) only hurts the bottom line. Getting a playfield better than Mirco would require a higher BOM so that won't happen. A little birdie even told me that the cabinet manufacturer was changed part way through GNR, again save money.
Quoted from daveyvandy:Red is out of stock, but there are two black ones in stock
https://cointaker.com/products/guns-n-roses-shooter-rod
That is a nice one. Too bad no red
Apologies if this is a noob question. Is there a general ball save feature in the settings? I found the ones for the various multiballs but not a basic one for when i start a ball
This whole thing just makes me really question if I should accept my LE next month or if I should ask to hold off until issues are figured out. I wonder how many games are actually bad vs good? My distributor told me he’s had 2 out of 100 have issues, and they were early builds. Also said 1 CE so far that he sold.
Quoted from konghusker:This whole thing just makes me really question if I should accept my LE next month or if I should ask to hold off until issues are figured out. I wonder how many games are actually bad vs good? My distributor told me he’s had 2 out of 100 have issues, and they were early builds. Also said 1 CE so far that he sold.
If he looks closer, I bet he has more than that. Especially if those machines are played.
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